I spend a lot of time thinking about what we ask the Yi and helping other people find their questions. This is a bit odd, because finding the question really isn’t complicated at all. It’s not a matter of devising a question nor even really of deciding on one, but of*finding it: discovering what you’re already asking.
I think it’s one of those things that are simple but not necessarily easy. And when it isn’t easy – when your question doesn’t leap to the eye – then*talking to yourself helps to unearth it. It works well to ask yourself questions.
The simplest one*is, ‘What do I need to know?’
(It’s worth digging a bit more into the answer to that one, to test its truth.*Why do you need to know this? What difference will the answer make?)
Another good question question:*
One way I sometimes help people find questions is through the application of some quite dry logic, to find just where they’re perched*among the branches of their ‘decision tree’ –
‘If I do x, I could do it this way or that way or maybe that way, and I could do that now or later and when should I tell my friends…?’
– well, your question might be about how to do x, but it might*be about*whether to do it at all. We often need to*disentangle ourselves from the twiggy bits to get back towards the trunk of the decision and find the choice we have*now.
This kind of ‘decision reading’ seems to be only a small subset of possible readings. Certainly the ‘decision tree’ approach*isn’t always the most effective way to find someone’s true, heartfelt question. (You might end up barking up the wrong tree altogether… ) However… while not all readings are ‘decision readings’, it’s hard to think of any reading that isn’t about choice.
There is always a choice somewhere. It’s not necessarily ‘what to do’, of course – there may not be anything to be done, or you may not have*much meaningful choice in your actions. But you’re still consulting Yi about a choice – maybe how to be with the thing, how to think about it, how to relate to*it…
And if you’re getting tangled up in the ‘decision tree’, it may be that there’s a prior choice of how to be and relate.
For example –*I’ve been sunk deep in redesign work for months now, and while I’m making respectable progress, ye gods and small fishes is this taking ages. What should or could I be outsourcing, and to whom, and*how could I avoid having an experience like last time (outsourcing to an ‘absentee web designer’), if it’s even possible to be sure of avoiding people like that…?
But before I get embroiled in*what and how and even*whether to outsource – where is my choice, really?*I think it’s in how to think about what I’m doing, as*I spend hours and hours every day up to my neck in templates and css files. Is this wise? Is this self-sabotage? Time-wasting? Is it some other thing I haven’t imagined? I don’t want to start taking decisions about what to do next until I’m more settled in my attitude to what I’m doing.
So my first question was*What am I doing with the redesign?*(and my second one was …and what should I be doing with it?*closely followed by*how about hiring this person to help with the forum menu?)
(What I’m doing, by the way, turns out to be Hexagram 31 changing at lines 4 and 5 to 15 – in other words, not self-sabotage nor yet completely off-track, though with some to-ing and fro-ing.*I’ve added a note to WikiWing about line 4.)

Hi Hilary

I've seen a lot of your "what do I need to know" suggested question. I understand why you suggested it and its logic. It seems pretty good. But I've seen many cases where people really want to know something else, but since there is an almost dogmagtic teaching "dont ask yes/no" "Yi doesn't predicts the future" etc. (not in you but others participants), then they still want to ask those questions but with the "what do I need to know" form. And it becomes a mess.

In my case, the most used questions (in orden, from most used to less used) are:
a) for diagnosis or the Navigation Chart (where Andree's times are more than accurate): what is the current situation about ....? (other ways to phrase it: what is the Time for ....? or Under what Sign .... is?
b) for advise or strategy: what is the best way to ...? (other phrases: give an advise on how to ....? What's the best strategy to ....?
c) for decision-making doubts: I just state the decision intended (other ways to phrase it: is the time favorable to ....? what's Heaven judgment about ....? will .... be favorable for my path?)
d) for prediction: plain and simple, depending on the predition. For instance: will I get the book within the next 2 months? will I recover from the illness this week? How the value of the euro will behave the next semester? etc.

My experience is that what is of paramount relevance is to clearly identify the doubt, regarless the way we phrase it. The doubt is the inner turmoil we are feeling.

I think 'identify the doubt' isn't a million miles away from 'identify the choice'. The choice we have now is probably also the thing we are in doubt about now. The difference is that you're probably more interested than I am in using the Yi for prediction (more on that in a moment), and I imagine you have methods that can reduce a reading to 'yes' or 'no' in a way that isn't possible with the text.

Or another way to say it: focussing on doubt might imply Yi is a way of gathering information; focussing on choice means Yi is a way of navigating life.

I notice that your examples a-c are all based directly on where is my choice?
(The 'quality of the time' diagnosis might have to do with choosing a course of action or mode of being/ thinking; b and c are choosing a course of action.)

Certainly a mess results from wanting to ask one question and instead trying to ask something else out of a belief that that's the 'right' question to ask. And any question can be used in a formulaic way that misses the core of the issue. But an equally large mess results from not reflecting on the question, and hence asking before you know what you are asking.

Asking a yes/no question can be a good example of this. Anyone who genuinely wants an answer that says just 'Yes' or 'No' is going to toss one coin, once. We turn to Yi because we want a rather more subtle, descriptive answer; we're not really asking for a 'yes' or 'no' at all.

Then what are we asking for? Well, I'm of the opinion that it's good to know this before you consult with Yi, rather than trying to work it out after the reading.

Normally, someone asking 'Should I do x?' is really asking 'What can I expect if I do x?' - that is, what they want Yi to say is 'Here's what to expect if you do.' And if they ask, 'Will this happen?' they're really asking, 'What will happen?' ie wanting an answer that says 'Here's what will happen.'

Provided the answer is easily read as a reply to the question they were really asking, the conversation goes smoothly. But 'Should I do x?' might be asking 'What if I do x?' or it might be asking 'What should I do?' - and it isn't always going to be clear which of those questions the answer is responding to. Is Yi's answer the description of a what-if scenario or the description of your best course of action?

Now the interpreters have to make their best guess about what question Yi's answering, and only the most intuitive and experienced are going to be comfortable doing this. And that's how asking a yes/no question causes a mess - because it often (not always, but IMO normally) corresponds to not really knowing what you're asking. (And why 'don't ask for a yes or no answer' is an excellent rule for most of us, no matter how 'dogmatic' it may seem!)

Asking for a prediction can be another good example of How To Create A Mess By Not Knowing What You're Asking.

Yes, of course Yi can predict the future. (Does anyone seriously think it can't?) And I think there is an unthinking reflex - 'This is an oracle, so I must ask it about the future' - not to mention a great fascination with the occult power of predicting the future. So the first question we come up with is often going to be 'What will happen?' or 'Will it happen?'

But - is that the real question? Is that what we actually want and need to know? Why do we need to know it?

Usually, we want to know about the future so we can resolve a doubt or make a choice that presents itself now.

'Will I recover from the illness this week?'
I need to know so I can make plans for Saturday/ so I can decide whether to phone the doctor (etc)
I can ask, 'What about phoning the Dr?' or 'What about cancelling the outing on Saturday?' (etc)

'How will the value of the euro behave over the next 3 months?'
Presumably I need to know that so I can make some investment decision or other now...
...so I can ask 'What if I make such-and-such an investment?'

Of course, the answer to, 'Why do you need to know what will happen?' is often not so obvious...
'What will he reply to my text message?' 'Will he ask me out again?' 'Will he leave his wife for me?'
...and IMO those are the cases where it's more vital than ever to ask, 'Why do you need to know that? Where is your choice?'

Can you think of a situation where it isn't a good idea to have this kind of awareness of what you're asking for, and why?

I once asked the Oracle if I should go and see a friend. It was a simple uncomplicated question. The choice was a simple one. I had no ulterior motives or underlying issues. It was a simple question. The answer was 1.1. Dragon under water so not act. I didn't go. Nothing was disastrous except there was ice forming and dense fog arrived about 3 hours later just when I would have been driving back.

Sometimes we can ask and there are really direct answers. Perhaps that is why in this case. I just wanted to go and have some company and give my friend some cakes I had made. I was a bit tired and wasn't sure.

Xx

Yes, nice and clear, because you naturally understood Yi to be answering the question, 'What should I do?' If you'd had, say, 26.2 ('the cart's axle straps come loose'), you might naturally have interpreted it as answering the question, 'What to expect if I go?' and also decided to stay home - and maybe get someone to look at the car. Yes/no questions sometimes work out nicely like that - with a response that's clearly answering one of your possible implied questions, so you never have to wonder which it is.

(and sometimes they don't)

Interesting that your answer was 1.1 when the situation sounds distinctly like 2.1.

Hi Hilary

hilary said:

I think 'identify the doubt' isn't a million miles away from 'identify the choice'.

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I never said that. Why would you write this as if I said they were million miles away?

hilary said:

The choice we have now is probably also the thing we are in doubt about now.

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Indeed. Facing the need to make a choice can produce an inner turmoil. Even more, in my experience, most of the time the doubt is about choices; more precisely, our difficulty to make a choice. I already said in other post that for me, the best use of the Yijing is to make better and more informed choices. But I also know that not 100% of the time the isssue or doubt is about choice. So, I keep myself open to that reality as well.

hilary said:

The difference is that you're probably more interested than I am in using the Yi for prediction (more on that in a moment),

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I said that predictive use of the Yijing is in my practice the less used type of consultation.

hilary said:

and I imagine you have methods that can reduce a reading to 'yes' or 'no' in a way that isn't possible with the text.

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I've never have problems reading yes/no questions with text-based method.

hilary said:

Or another way to say it: focussing on doubt might imply Yi is a way of gathering information; focussing on choice means Yi is a way of navigating life.

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This one is really unbelievable. You know my signature. How can you imply that I see Yi as a way of gathering information rather than as a way of navigating life?

hilary said:

I notice that your examples a-c are all based directly on where is my choice?
(The 'quality of the time' diagnosis might have to do with choosing a course of action or mode of being/ thinking; b and c are choosing a course of action.)

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Cases b) and c) yes; case a) may be in some cases but may be not in other. You are right that you may want to know the quality of time to better chose a course of action. But some times some people wants to know the quality of time not to make a choice, sometimes it's just to get reasurance; sometimes is just to release inner tension, sometimes is merely curiosity; sometimes is just to understand and make sense of it, etc. Of course, I'm not saying that is the best use of the Yi; I'm not advocating that use. But I know that some people do that in that way.

hilary said:

But an equally large mess results from not reflecting on the question, and hence asking before you know what you are asking.

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Did you read that I said that I consider that clarifying your doubt is of paramount importance. I'm not advocating asking before you know what you are asking.

hilary said:

Yes, of course Yi can predict the future. (Does anyone seriously think it can't?)

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Yes, many people seriously think that; and become very preaching about it. Haven't you notice?

hilary said:

Can you think of a situation where it isn't a good idea to have this kind of awareness of what you're asking for, and why?

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Once again. I did say that clarifying the doubt which makes you turn to the Yi is of paramount importance. What it seems to be the difference is that in my case, clarifying what's the inner turmoil making you asking the Yi is an inner-self-work to do before you ask the Yi; and seems like for you it is something to ask the Yi instead.

I also said that the question "what do I need to know" seems pretty good. So, you don't need to convince me about it. I'm not disqualifying it. I just pointed how problematic is to really want to ask something "incorrect" and ask it anyway but in a disguised way. If someone ask that question for the reasons you sumarized, its great. But if they ask that question when they still want to ask a more simple-straightforward-predictive-yesno-way, just because someone said there is a rule against so and so... that's problematic; which you agree is problematic.

So, I'm not million miles away from yourself, as it seems you think I am.

Best wishes

hilary said:

I think 'identify the doubt' isn't a million miles away from 'identify the choice'.

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Sixth Relative said:

So, I'm not million miles away from yourself, as it seems you think I am.

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Er, no, that's not what I think. That's why I said you weren't .

Sixth Relative said:

What it seems to be the difference is that in my case, clarifying what's the inner turmoil making you asking the Yi is an inner-self-work to do before you ask the Yi; and seems like for you it is something to ask the Yi instead.

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Hm? No, when I talk about asking 'What do I need to know?' and 'Where is my choice?' and 'Why do I need to know that?' and so on (and on...), I mean questions to ask oneself.

And when I talk about 'choice' I don't just mean 'decision about what to do' - but I'm repeating myself.

hilary said:

Hm? No, when I talk about asking 'What do I need to know?' and 'Where is my choice?' and 'Why do I need to know that?' and so on (and on...), I mean questions to ask oneself.

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Ok, thanks for this clarification!! Because what I see in this forum is people asking the Yi time after time "what do I need to know about...." so I thought that was the way you suggested to work.

At the Yijing course that I am teaching at the moment I told my students that they don't necessarily need to ask a specific question - you can throw the coins without anything in mind, and what you get will, in the most broadest sense possible, tell you about the currents and tendencies of your present situation, with everything that is attached to that. It can tell you how the situation is, which is often different from how you think it is.

But interpreting the answer that you get when you don't ask a question is not always easy for my students. Last time someone (let's call her Elly) threw a hexagram with Dui 兌, Lake, as the lower trigram. For me the lower trigram represents the questioner. One of my students said, "Harmen, I see the lower trigram and I think, Elly has a positive attitude, she must be really happy! But you say, 'what the situation needs is a connection or attitude with joy, pleasure, fulfillment etc. I say, 'she is', you say 'what the situation needs'. I'm confused." I replied that 1. never ever say that a person is this-or-that: you don't know how a person is or what he/she feels, and there is also no point in telling a person that. 2. a hexagram without a question will tell you the essential core of the situation, the root of the present, not attached to any perception. It's the place that the Yi connects with. Viewed in that light a hexagram can tell you what the essential building blocks of your situation are, telling you what your situation needs.

This is illustrated by another example from the same group. Someone did not ask a specific question, although she described her situation, which was two-folded: 1. she was trying to start a new business but no one was responding to the mailings that she sent out to her network; 2. for several months she tried to sell her house only to find out recently that her real estate agent had quit his job which meant that no one was actually trying to sell her house. She received hexagram 51, 5th line moving.

I told her, what the situation needs is quick, decisive action. A new start, react on instinct and impulse, intuitively, work on the short term, not on the long term. You however, send out a mass mailing and wait for replies. You try to sell your house, only to find out two and a half months later that your real estate agent has quit his job. This does not correspond to Thunder. What the situation needs is that you act faster, respond quickly to changes in your situation. The 5th line, the line of the king, tells you to take control and take matters into your own hands. Be the leader instead of being lead.

Interestingly my students find the no-question option so fascinating that hardly any one is asking questions to the Yi anymore.

Sixth Relative said:

Ok, thanks for this clarification!! Because what I see in this forum is people asking the Yi time after time "what do I need to know about...." so I thought that was the way you suggested to work.

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Ah. Yes. Well, in the first place this forum is not governed by my suggestions - plenty of people here have decades of experience with Yi before ever coming near Clarity. But in fact 'What do I need to know about this?' or 'What do I need to understand...? is also one of my favourite questions to ask Yi. It's quite close to Harmen's practice of not asking a question at all, but expecting something that will -

hmesker said:

in the broadest sense possible, tell you about the currents and tendencies of your present situation, with everything that is attached to that. It can tell you how the situation is, which is often different from how you think it is.

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I think casting without asking is more or less equivalent to asking 'What do I need to know/ see/ understand about my situation?' I like this question because it can clean out a lot of 'how I think it is' - it's as near as we can get to a question that isn't distorted by assumptions.

(For a simple example of such distortion: asking 'How can I sell my house?' assumes that a) the house should be sold b) it's the right time to sell the house c) the house can be sold d) selling the house is my job, or at least there's something for me to do that will make a difference. All of those might be true or none of them, and putting the assumptions in the question makes it harder to see if the answer is challenging them.)

But I have a very simple (not to say simple-minded) problem with asking no question at all.

It can tell you how the situation is, which is often different from how you think it is.

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Yes... but which situation? Of course it's quite possible that the business and the house-selling both require swift decisive action - human nature being what it is, one area of life will often be a mirror for another. But it's also possible that the house-selling needs Thunder and the business needs something quite different, or vice versa. A 'What do I need to understand about selling my house?' question - or a 'questionless' 'Hello Yi, I haven't managed to sell my house yet, talk to me...' - would clarify that.

I like questionless readings associated with a period of time - a week or a season or a year. But I've noticed a couple of things about people only asking these. First, they may be avoiding asking clearly about the Elephant In The Room. And second, when they get their answer they often have to play an elaborate guessing game - 'Hm, OK, maybe it's talking about the elephant... perhaps this is advice for elephant keepers... or maybe it tells me what the elephant will do next, now it's finished gouging those holes in the walls... or then again maybe it's advice on choosing new wallpaper. Yes, that's probably it. Looks like horizontal stripes...'

On the one hand, asking a focussed question could create a kind of distorting mirror of assumptions, and it's hard to see reality reflected in such an answer. And on the other hand, as Sixth Relative is saying, asking a tremendously open question (or, I'd add, no question at all) when there's actually something specific you want to ask (or, I'd add, are afraid to ask) also creates a mess.

Maybe it's best just to play around with different kinds of question, and no question at all, to avoid sinking into a rut of 'recommended practice'. (Maybe my next consultation should have no question and the one after that should ask for a yes/no... )

A hexagram without a question will tell you the essential core of the situation, the root of the present, not attached to any perception. It's the place that the Yi connects with.

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:bows:

"It can tell you how the situation is, which is often different from how you think it is."

I think that's one of the most important points to remember whatever the type of question or lack thereof, it offers a completely objective rendering of reality at that moment in time. And that is the biggest obstacle for our monkey minds, the battle to get through our own filters and subjective ideas as to what it might be saying. That's why the Yi must, in the end be a method of self-knowledge in order to interpret correctly and deeply. And why it can be so damn maddening as much as enlightening...

Good thread.

hilary said:

I think casting without asking is more or less equivalent to asking 'What do I need to know/ see/ understand about my situation?' I like this question because it can clean out a lot of 'how I think it is' - it's as near as we can get to a question that isn't distorted by assumptions.

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Yes, but it also assumes that there is something that you need to know or or see or understand, which might also imply that you do not know or see or understand what you need to know or see or understand while you actually do know or see or understand what you have to know or see or understand (wow, can anyone still follow this? ). When you do not ask a question then in essence there should not be any question, wish or need for understanding whatsoever. This is close to the concept of wu 無 in daoism as described by Steve Coutinho in An Introduction to Daoist Philosophies (p. 57-58; warning: massive copy & paste coming up; underscore is mine to indicate what I find essential):



The concept of wu should be kept in mind when you ask no question.

Yes... but which situation? Of course it's quite possible that the business and the house-selling both require swift decisive action - human nature being what it is, one area of life will often be a mirror for another. But it's also possible that the house-selling needs Thunder and the business needs something quite different, or vice versa.

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That is an assumption, an assumption that starts with the assumption that there can be several different situations at once. But in my view, when you ask no question, there is only the situation, not one from many situations, just as you have only one life at the moment. The Yi can point you to the underlying theme that connects all elements in your situation, the wu in the web that has no weaver (shamelessly borrowing Kaptchuk here). The questionless question goes much deeper than any questional question might go (inventing new words on the spot here).

That is what the the Yi can do for me.

hmesker said:

But in my view, when you ask no question, there is only the situation, not one from many situations, just as you have only one life at the moment. The Yi can point you to the underlying theme that connects all elements in your situation, the wu in the web that has no weaver (shamelessly borrowing Kaptchuk here). The questionless question goes much deeper than any questional question might go (inventing new words on the spot here).
That is what the the Yi can do for me.

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That's been my experience. I've been naturally moving toward not asking questions, just sitting with the state I find myself. I think the Yi already aligns to what is unspoken - perhaps even "locks in" to the psycho-spiritual template (if we can call is such) which has been "frozen" at the moment of intention/asking. The level of non-anticipation and "desirelessness" must surely increase the lucidity and clarity of our own reading instrument fulfilling that apparent symbiosis. It has to, since what are questions but hooks for our own linear minds to hang on crystallised concepts and ideas? But the Yi doesn't connect with the written word but the thought behind these ideas before they've been filtered through the emotions. And the deeper the thought the more optimal this "minimizing" and thus fleshing out these innate or natural tendencies which can be made to work for us, whatever they may be. Or so it seems to me...

svenrus said:

Not asking any question is equal to the question: In what situation am I ?

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I don't think that asking no question can be equal to asking a question, see post #12. Anyway, I have stated my favor for (and the advantages of) no-question (let's call it the wuti 無題 approach) several times on this forum and elsewhere, but that was not my main point in my first post. What I tried to share were my thoughts about situation & its need - if you know how the situation is and what it needs then you have a better view of your possible options & choices.

topal said:

what are questions but hooks for our own linear minds to hang on crystallised concepts and ideas?

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:bows:

hmesker said:

Yes, but it also assumes that there is something that you need to know or or see or understand, which might also imply that you do not know or see or understand what you need to know or see or understand while you actually do know or see or understand what you have to know or see or understand (wow, can anyone still follow this? ).

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Child's play .

I don't believe it necessarily implies that you don't know/see/understand what you need to know/see/understand. In theory 'What do I need to understand?' could be answered by telling you exactly what you already understand - nothing added, nothing taken away. Though it's probably best not to count on that.

hmesker said:

When you do not ask a question then in essence there should not be any question, wish or need for understanding whatsoever.

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I can see that - and I think that would be a pretty unusual kind of questioning.

Your example student certainly has questions about selling her house and getting a response for her business. I think more or less everyone is asking some more or less unspoken question more or less all the time: 'What's going on here?' or 'How can I do this better?' or 'How can I cope with this?' or 'Money...?' or 'Mother...?' As the question wells up to the surface and takes shape, we start getting the itch to consult with Yi.

The person without question, wish or need for understanding is probably a Daoist sage. Will this sage bother consulting with Yi?

#15:

I see. But the subject "a question" and what that is - spoken or unspoken, I meant it the way that sometimes when needing orientation I look at a map versus Asking a map. But maybe this belong to another thread I think.

hilary said:

The person without question, wish or need for understanding is probably a Daoist sage. Will this sage bother consulting with Yi?

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Considering that the Yi is more than just an answer machine: yes, I think he would. For reflection maybe.

Perhaps he might, at that - just for some intelligent conversation.