To what extent is it ok to use Shared Readings for making a political stand and promoting political campaigns? A forum member has adopted as signature a link to a petition to stop US president Donald Trump from visiting Britain. What's next? Campaigns to support the left, right, centre? Readings and interpretations in the SR seem to be moving away from the I Ching only to corroborate someone's political views. It is also worring the level of hate speech towards others who hold different opinions. Where is the I Ching in all of that?

mirian said:

To what extent is it ok to use Shared Readings for making a political stand and promoting political campaigns?

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Hi mirian,
The moderators discussed this issue and feel that Shared Readings is a place where people can post to get help with their readings, or to post examples of their readings and experience that are helpful to others. Open Space is the place for political discussion or just about anything else.
No one is being silenced here, only directed to post these kinds of things in Open Space.

The signature of the user in question is analogous to someone wearing a button on their vest that says, 'I like _'
while they are participating in a discussion.
Wearing such a button is not forbidden and does not preclude anyone from taking part in discussion. Feel free to come up with a signature that you like.

mirian said:

Readings and interpretations in the SR seem to be moving away from the I Ching only to corroborate someone's political views. ..
It is also worring the level of hate speech towards others who hold different opinions.

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Yes, I agree. That is why the empty capitol thread was closed.
If anyone feels the need to express themselves they can do so in Open Space. If anyone feels a post is inappropriate, please report it using the Report button.

As far as I'm concerned, people can use their signature to link to anything they like, provided it isn't offensive.

People did have some difficulty staying on topic with Trump-related readings, true - hence the recent closure of the 'empty city' thread. The discussion of the reading was really good, though.

The petition in question isn't to bar Trump from the UK, by the way. The author of the petition recognises that that would be impractical, since he's the head of an allied government. It's to deny him the honour of a state visit, ie audience with the Queen. While I think the reasons given on the petition are sadly inadequate, I've signed it. Anything to protest our government's embarrassing policy of appeasement.

For me this isn't about politics. Politics includes questions like 'How much of a nation's GDP should be controlled by the government?' or 'Should these issues be decided locally, nationally or internationally?' or maybe 'Do trickle-down economics work?' Questions like, 'Is it more important to preserve the planet for our children, or to maximise the profits of oil executives?' or 'Should there be a free press and independent judiciary?' or 'Is it OK for the ruler to stir up fear and hatred with lies?' are not merely political.

(crossed posts with Moss Elk)

Hilary,

I am not going to comment on your posts as I found both very patronising. Please don't treat people like that.

Hi Moss Elk,

Thank you for clarifying this issue. Personally I don't agree because it is a fine line that can give way to all sorts in the future. But I am satisfied that you had discussed between yourselves and reached a consensus.
However, my dissatisfaction goes back quite a while regarding other issues on the forum and since last year I have gradually stopped posting my own threads, sharing readings or commenting on someone else's depending on the thread. Needless to say, I started getting less and less from the forum and missed out on learning from people who have a wealth of knowledge, like yourself and Rosada, just to name a few. But the whole situation now helped me to make a decision that is long overdue. I spoke to the Yi and got Hex 15.1.3 >> 24. That would do for me

Kind regards,

I don't think Hilary was being patronizing, but then when it comes to consulting the I Ching I don't think we should restrict anything. After all, the ancients used the I Ching to decide if they should go to war and kill people so when I read talk that implies we're only supposed to ask about boyfriends and missing car keys I'm like,WTF? Why are we even bothering to study this book if that's all we're going to do with it? We should be able to ask anything we want!
Sure folks will interpret lines in ways that reflect their own bias - but then others will spot their prejudice and call them out and hopefully we'll learn to be able to express our individual points of view in ways that are not disruptive but add to the group understanding. If not, if people become too aggressive in promoting their own opinions, then we have the Moderation area and of course Hilary can lock the threads.
My point is that I think the I Ching was designed for handling the more politically incorrect questions and if we can mind our manners we can gain access to its "forbidden" wisdom. Besides, those sort of questions are good practice for staying detached. Certainly anyone who has had a bit of experience with the oracle recognizes it speaks most clearly when our minds are calm and neutral. As we practice maintaining this state of inner balance we become more and more adverse to indulging in emotional drama and more and more rewarded with deeper insight. So I think it's healthy to ask any question we want an answer to.

Plus if people are being intentionally unpleasant we always have the option of not reading their posts.

jm2c
Rosada

rosada said:

when it comes to consulting the I Ching I don't think we should restrict anything. After all, the ancients used the I Ching to decide if they should go to war and kill people so when I read talk that implies we're only supposed to ask about boyfriends and missing car keys I'm like,WTF? Why are we even bothering to study this book if that's all we're going to do with it? We should be able to ask anything we want

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What a shame rosada, you actually didn't read my post and Moss Elk reply, so you're talking about something completely different. Never mind

Footballmeetings don't usually take place in libraries unless associated with at very rare occasions.

iching Wilhelm ver. user since 1972....invaluable for getting through Trump....every throw of the dice is uncanny...at the moment, the change into the opposite is just beginning...getting the same hexagrams over and over with different lines....care must be taken at the beginning of this transition...in the eighth month...change..I figure about September, 17.....after that, an improved US and world...RETURN...also, been getting Marrying Maiden a lot, about human relationships...also, a lot of Revolution, and WORK ON WHAT'S SPOILED....STUDY RETURN...It describes the process of change and the six lines....

Oh gosh I love people's signatures - it's an insight into them and makes me become aware of things I may not come across being such an insular person.

the sage said:

iching Wilhelm ver. user since 1972....invaluable for getting through Trump....every throw of the dice is uncanny...at the moment, the change into the opposite is just beginning...getting the same hexagrams over and over with different lines....care must be taken at the beginning of this transition...in the eighth month...change..I figure about September, 17.....after that, an improved US and world...RETURN...also, been getting Marrying Maiden a lot, about human relationships...also, a lot of Revolution, and WORK ON WHAT'S SPOILED....STUDY RETURN...It describes the process of change and the six lines....

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Interesting post 'the sage'. Although it is clear that Trump's agenda is divisive - 'invaluable for getting through Trump' tends to imply from your reading that the 'change' will be a revolution that will remove him from office [as a great many of the established political elite are trying to achieve]. However, it can also be read that Trump will achieve his goal of reducing the power of the global corporations that have shifted power away from nation states [his concern is just the US of course] and back to the people - at least to some degree.

Globally, the scrapping of TTIP and TTP certainly should assist this change as they would have consolidated further the power of the global corporations.

The frequency of 'Marrying Maiden' could refer to the feminist movement which has grown in power significantly in recent years - and has a quite different agenda to any[?] seen in the past.

Hi Mirian,

I've resigned to the fact that though the Yijing is nonpartisan, the vast majority of members here are liberal and out and out Trump haters. There's no use trying to reason with this collective group about it; their minds are made up and that door is tightly locked and sealed.

I asked Hilary if she was okay with my return, and was told so long as I kept my comments to the Yijing. I said I'd have to look straight ahead and not to the left or right of me to do so. In others words, do a lot of ignoring, which actually equals the degree to which I will be ignored by the liberal majority here. If I perceive the Yijing to be impartisan, then it's up to me to follow that belief regardless whatever else I see from others, or opinions I may have that do not directly focus on the IC. It may not seem fair but that's how every establishment has always been, even in the other animal kingdoms: monkeys, hippos, dogs - probably even insects. Imagine an ant with an aim other than to serve their queen and march along with the rest of the community. He or she would be quickly dismembered and eaten.

It works both ways. Imagine a liberal speaking out against gun ownership at an NRA meeting! Even though there are pro-gun democrats.

So we have a choice: either don't be concerned with political ideology here or simply leave. Also, we must ignore any aggressive or passive aggressive comments, or get into arguments, which we, the small minority here, will surely be blamed for. It's a no win in that respect. That doesn't mean our good intentions need to be inhibited with responses to I Ching questions asked or points of view about the IC which differ from the normally accepted. I don't think there are prohibitions about that, even when there is no agreement expressed. One or more may at least think about it, even if they remain silent.

As far as unpopular signatures, I see no point walking around with a target on my back. Those who know me, know where I stand by now. We really are free to come or go. No one says we must agree, nor that anyone else needs to agree with me. I had to take a long leave to arrive at this pov, about once a year or so, just to chill. It really is a good exercise to practice what the Yijing does teach.

Candid_X said:

Also, we must ignore any aggressive or passive aggressive comments, or get into arguments

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When walking down the street and a stranger yells aggressive things or tries to argue with you or insults you, it is generally a good idea to keep walking and breathing and not get hooked in to the other persons ugliness. Just seems wise, generally.

But here on this forum though, we have the Report Post button, which is sadly under used. Looking back over a few years of moderation and Reported posts, I can say confidently that the reported posts are looked at and discussed/debated about with due diligence: the posts are analyzed against the few simple rules of the forum, and feedback given to the reporter and to the author of a reported post.
Sometimes we say something in a moment of frustration or anger that after we cool off, can see it wasn't the best way to say it. I've done it before and have been private messaged by a moderator, then went back and edited or deleted my post. And I have sent private messages of apology to a few people when I was overly harsh. Reporting posts has tempered me personally.
I'm glad for it.

What I am trying to say is that when the Report function is used, it can have good effects. What has an awful effect is when someone loses their temper and calls someone out, instead of reporting. There have been several instances of this over the last few years where people lose their temper and go on diatribes or personal attacks that go on and on over several threads and days. And what each of the worst of these episodes have in common is that none of the people who were upset and lashing out at other members took the time to report a post. If they had, matters would be settled much more quickly. So, I encourage everyone to use the Report button if they see someone engaging in behaviour that violates the terms of service. It can work if it is given the chance to. We do not have to ignore aggressive and passive aggressive posts here.

The Report Post button is the little triangle with the exclamation point in the center at the bottom of each post in the grey line right after the Thanks button and the Blog this Post button.

Fluffy clouds, acoustic guitar recording. It's a nice day.

Candid_X said:

So we have a choice: either don't be concerned with political ideology here or simply leave. .

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Just an attempt to clarify this. I have recently developed an interest in using the Yi for current affairs, and Politics is a big part of this. But on Shared Readings forum I feel that every time that the subject of the reading is Politics and I want to comment or post a thread I must start with a disclaimer, saying "I hate Trump and all his followers, I am not right wing, I am not xenophobic". And even so sometimes it is not enough, if the interpretation does not fit the accepted narrative.

Personally, that does not work for me. If I get from the Yi a reading saying that Marine Le Pen will be the best president for France (disclaimer: it's an example, I am not Le Pen supporter) then I want to feel free to explore and go further, to understand where the Yi is coming from and look into the implications, on the Yi basis alone, instead of shouting "I hate Le Pen and the French voters".

I have had some really interesting readings recently that I would have loved to share and learn from others. However, I don't want to deal with being lectured or patronised. Firstly, because I don't want to go through the hassle, but also because I don't see the reason why I should have to.

Of course you can post whatever readings and interpretations you want. Political discussion unrelated to the reading would be off-topic for SR, so you don't need to worry about the thread getting seriously side-tracked.