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What to do about coin malfunctions?

kforchange

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Hello all,
I have been meaning to ask this question for something and the issue occurred again in the most spectacular way with a cast yesterday that I decided to make sure I asked!

There have been times when I throw that the coin has knocked against something of fallen off the table or bed and I've wondered, should I start the whole thing again? Yesterday I did a cast on a wooden floor and on the third line the coin landed vertically between two floorboards!!! I decided to continue and as that was the only changing line I thought I'd read it all. It was 56.3>35 or 35uc I thought as I received 56 relating to a question about the same thing before I thought I'd go with that but there is something that doesn't quite make sense about it, but a lot that does, 35uc also makes quite a bit of sense.

What to do in a situation like this?

Many thanks!
 

Liselle

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Edited: Found Hilary's post, hooray!
https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2007/09/05/i-ching-coins-questions/




I'm quite sure Hilary has addressed this very subject somewhere - I was hoping to link to something - but after a fair amount of searching I haven't found it. Hopefully someone else knows where it is and will see this.

Are you throwing three coins, and counting heads and tails? My guess (guess - I'd really prefer to find what Hilary wrote) is that if they land flat - no matter if they roll, bounce, or knock into things beforehand - just use the head or tail end result and don't worry about what went on before. (I suppose you could note in your journal that the coin rolled under the dresser, or landed on its edge, or whatever, just for completeness, in case it indicates some form of complication in the situation you're asking about, or in the solution. But that is wild speculation on my part. My only point is that it never hurts to make more notes, and see if you notice any patterns in time.)

Vertically between two floorboards - short answer, I don't know, that's a tricky one. Longer answer: if it's anything other than perfectly vertical - if it has the slightest lean to it - perhaps use any tiny lean that exists? I.e. if the head side is even slightly more exposed by a lean, count it as as head. Maybe consider lying down on the floor and looking at it from different angles to help discern this.

My guess is that starting over should probably be the last resort.
 

Liselle

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Also, there's an interesting small discussion in that article's comments.
 

Trojina

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It's down to your personal preference of course. If any coins go missing half way through a cast I prefer to stop and ask a bit later. It may be my fancy but I always feel when coins roll away etc it's a sign to leave it a little while before casting again even if only 5 minutes but often I'll leave it longer.

I think it's far simpler to just start over than worry about which side has really landed up.

There really is no 'right' answer, it is totally down to what you feel comfortable with.

Maybe consider lying down on the floor and looking at it from different angles to help discern this.

Liselle you are joking aren't you ?

My guess is that starting over should probably be the last resort.

Why should it be the last resort ? It's a lot easier than lying on the floor squinting and trying to figure how far the angle of the lean of the coin is ....chortling here

If it's between 2 floorboards my advice is take it out and start again in a little while.

Didn't we have a great comedy thread once about this...Rosada will remember, everyone added a line. It went something like , I dunno, the coin went out of the window then it did this then that and everyone wrote a line of the story
 

Trojina

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But well done for finding the link !
 

Liselle

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Well, okay, I probably (certainly) took it to an extreme. As you say, people should do what they're comfortable with. Just personally, I think I'd feel better at least making a stab at seeing what the original toss was. (Actually, I don't like tossing coins at all for exactly this reason - they're awkward, and I'm clumsy. For casting with physical objects I like marbles better. However if I'm out somewhere and need a reading it's likely coins are the only thing I have.)

The lying on the floor bit was mostly just to get closer to it, otherwise you're looking at a small coin from 5 feet above. And (not that I thought of this when I wrote that) you'll probably bend down to pick it up anyway, so you may as well notice if it's leaning.

But I also like what you're saying about if weird things happen with the coins, maybe better to come back to it later.

I missed that funny thread! Darn!
 
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Freedda

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As people have said, what you do may be personal choice and there is no right or wrong. For me, if a coin falls somewhere but i can still determine heads or tails, i go with it. If it instead landed on its edge, i would likely just throw it again, for just that line. You might consider doing the coin toss in a place where it doesn't go anywhere -- i often do it on my bed.

Another option is to look at the '16 beads' method described by hilary. Not sure if you have access but you can find it here (and also in Karcher's book) https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/learn/ways-to-consult-the-i-ching/16-beads/. I just started using this method, but with 16 small wooden disks -- which are shaped like coins. I have numbers on them -- 6/7/8/9 and pull them out of a small bag, so i can do a reading on the train, the bus, in a cafe, in an inconspicuous way.

Best, David.
 
N

Nevermind

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As far as I know the people that do this as a job in Asia take whatever site they see first.
So if it is fallen in such a way that both sites are possible to see, the site you will see before the other is the one you take.
 
C

cjgait

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The question is how do we react to failures in ritual. Sometimes they are preventable, sometimes they come by chance. The ritualist in tune with the Dao can react fluidly to the circumstances. Sometimes the coin goes a bit astray and you recast the line. Sometimes it goes wildly out of whack, like some of the examples given in this thread...I think you stop. You don't start over, you stop and rededicate yourself and wait until a later time to divine. Lun Yu, 16:1, Mueller's translation: "When a tiger or wild buffalo escapes from the cage, or the tortoise shell and jade are destroyed in their cases, whose fault is this?”
 

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