I've been friends with a couple for over 27 years. About 18 months ago I had a fall out with the husband but it resolved itself naturally and we moved on and there's been no problems since. I actually don't like him all that much but she is my closest friend who has shown me so much unconditional love and support particularly these last 12 months and our friendship has grown even more so I do my best to make out I'm interested in whatever's going on for him as well but to be honest I really don't care. A couple of weeks ago he 'made a pass' at me and as soon as I could I told my friend....she was mortified and said it will never happen again saying he was very drunk which was obvious. I laughed it off because it didn't really bother me considering I'd known them for so many years but tonight after I'd left after spending the evening with them having a few drinks and dinner I received a text msge off him saying he was horny and could I send a naked photo of myself....holy shi* !!!

What do I need to know about his intentions with this behaviour

Hexagram 4.2.3>52

I feel like Hex 4 and line 2 is him being immature but I'm unsure about line 3 in this context.
Also he does get put out if she spends time with others and his not getting her attention but they've been a couple for over 30 years. I thought maybe he's trying to stop me from spending time with her but if anything he's behaviour, other than this inappropriateness shows he likes me very much as a person generally.
There's a bit of weird twist to all of this....I'm about to start intense therapy for sex crimes committed on me when I was a teenager which I'd just learned to live with the traumatic effect they'd had on me all my life. Also during the course of my day today another married man tried to hit on me via fb - I don't know him nor have I ever met him as far as I know.

I've been friends with a couple for over 27 years. About 18 months ago I had a fall out with the husband but it resolved itself naturally and we moved on and there's been no problems since. I actually don't like him all that much but she is my closest friend who has shown me so much unconditional love and support particularly these last 12 months and our friendship has grown even more so I do my best to make out I'm interested in whatever's going on for him as well but to be honest I really don't care. A couple of weeks ago he 'made a pass' at me and as soon as I could I told my friend....she was mortified and said it will never happen again saying he was very drunk which was obvious. I laughed it off because it didn't really bother me considering I'd known them for so many years but tonight after I'd left after spending the evening with them having a few drinks and dinner I received a text msge off him saying he was horny and could I send a naked photo of myself....holy shi* !!!

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What !!!!????

What do I need to know about his intentions with this behaviour

Hexagram 4.2.3>52

I feel like Hex 4 and line 2 is him being immature but I'm unsure about line 3 in this context.
Also he does get put out if she spends time with others and his not getting her attention but they've been a couple for over 30 years. I thought maybe he's trying to stop me from spending time with her but if anything he's behaviour, other than this inappropriateness shows he likes me very much as a person generally.

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I think 3 is asking you to see this in it's stark human form, that is see it as it is don't see it as anything else. This is a kind of assault so your question is a strange one in that context. It would be like asking following a sexual assault "what do I need to know about his intentions with this behaviour ?" Who cares, he just violated you. Line 3 says from Hilary's translation

'Don't take this woman.
She sees a man of bronze, and there is no self.
No direction bears fruit'

I see that as 'don't take the part of you which is seeing him like a bronze man, a symbolic man, a man for whom she will just forget herself'. I see this as 'don't dress this up as anything other than what it is', it's sexual harassment, it's humiliating and unpleasant for you. There's no excuse

There's a bit of weird twist to all of this....I'm about to start intense therapy for sex crimes committed on me when I was a teenager which I'd just learned to live with the traumatic effect they'd had on me all my life. Also during the course of my day today another married man tried to hit on me via fb - I don't know him nor have I ever met him as far as I know.

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Maybe because of those early experiences you tend to take this behaviour as more usual and rather than see the horror of it especially from the husband of an old and trusted friend, you wonder what the motivations are.

I'm not sure of the 52 there, I think it may be you sort of ignoring the import of this as if you were unaffected. Perhaps that is the way you dealt with such things when young. I wonder if line 2 shows that, a person copes how they cope, that may be a young person's way. I can't say I'm sure about that but I feel more sure about line 3.

It's not acceptable Liss regardless of his motivation.

Maybe he wants to sully you in his wife's eyes hoping you might respond and then he could show her or maybe he was drunk or maybe he just wants to go to bed with you which is the most obvious thing though hardly a charming way to go about it but whatever his motivation he doesn't have the right to treat you that way and I do not see how you can go on interacting with him. Are you going to show his wife the text ?

After thought. It's not possible anyone else could get hold of his phone is it ? Teenage son playing a prank or something like that ?

Overall I don't see the cast as advising any immediate action on your part, not with the 52 there. And line 3 does show you need to see this just as it is rather than indicative of any more elevated motive on his part...if there could possibly be one.

Trojina said:

What !!!!????


I think 3 is asking you to see this in it's stark human form, that is see it as it is don't see it as anything else. This is a kind of assault so your question is a strange one in that context. It would be like asking following a sexual assault "what do I need to know about his intentions with this behaviour ?"

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Yes I see what you mean, my question was more around whether he is trying to break the friendship I have with his wife. Without her I really couldn't have got through some of the things that have happened to me in the last 12 months. Recently she's been extremely busy and also just nursed her sister through her last dying days from cancer including her last breath as she didn't want to be in hospital. I do have other friends but not in the same capacity. Things haven't really improved for me and I've just fallen into a very scarey deep depression where I pretty much sit and stare into space and have no motivation to do anything so last nights socialising was a chance for us to make sure each other is ok...the depth of our friendship knows no depth so to speak and personally I've never experienced such unconditional love from anyone which makes it all the more important to me. That is the basis of this question even though yes it sounds weird to ask it.

Trojina said:

Line 3 says from Hilary's translation

'Don't take this woman.
She sees a man of bronze, and there is no self.
No direction bears fruit'

I see that as 'don't take the part of you which is seeing him like a bronze man, a symbolic man, a man for whom she will just forget herself'. I see this as 'don't dress this up as anything other than what it is', it's sexual harassment, it's humiliating and unpleasant for you. There's no excuse
Yes you're right and I could overlook it once as drunkenness on his part but not a second time but I've just absolutely no idea how to deal with because it involves my friend as well and mentally and emotionally I just don't have the capacity to deal with it.

Maybe because of those early experiences you tend to take this behaviour as more usual and rather than see the horror of it especially from the husband of an old and trusted friend, you wonder what the motivations are.

I'm not sure of the 52 there, I think it may be you sort of ignoring the import of this as if you were unaffected. Perhaps that is the way you dealt with such things when young. I wonder if line 2 shows that, a person copes how they cope, that may be a young person's way. I can't say I'm sure about that but I feel more sure about line 3.

It's not acceptable Liss regardless of his motivation.

Maybe he wants to sully you in his wife's eyes hoping you might respond and then he could show her or maybe he was drunk or maybe he just wants to go to bed with you which is the most obvious thing though hardly a charming way to go about it but whatever his motivation he doesn't have the right to treat you that way and I do not see how you can go on interacting with him. Are you going to show his wife the text ?

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Yes I'm definitely showing her the text - if she ever found out and I hadn't she would be devastated. Plus I don't see it as my problem but as hers or rather a problem in their marriage - the problem I do have is that I've no control over whether she feels it's best to let go of the friendship. When push comes to shove there's no doubt she will stick with her husband, which I understand, but it's just not right because it's his behaviour that's wrong not mine or hers. I don't want to keep interacting with him and would rather not have to but I've felt that way for a long time regardless of this incident but I don't know how to have a friendship with her if I don't. He is always there, it's very rare to spend more than 5 minutes with her without him being there.

Trojina said:

After thought. It's not possible anyone else could get hold of his phone is it ? Teenage son playing a prank or something like that ?

Overall I don't see the cast as advising any immediate action on your part, not with the 52 there. And line 3 does show you need to see this just as it is rather than indicative of any more elevated motive on his part...if there could possibly be one.

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No all of our children are adults in there 20's and don't live anywhere near us - I have to admit my initial response was that it was a prank but in my heart I know it is not.
Yes Hex 52 baffled me a bit too but I guess it does mean don't do anything but could it also mean that this behaviour needs to STOP right here.

How would it benefit me to alert my friend about the text message

Hexagram 25.4.6>3
This reads to me to NOT tell her and I should just go along as if nothings happened although it will be Difficult to start with Hex 3. Mind you I'm not good at pretending everything is ok. I was supposed to spend most of the weekend with them helping renovate their new house but I don't feel as though it's appropriate for me nor do I think I'd have the emotional/mental capacity to be able to do that.

This morning he's sent me a text apologising for his drunken text message. I sat with it for about half an hour and then asked if my friend knew - he said no but if I want him to, he will tell her, like some little school boy....I think therein lies some of the problem and also I've finally realised she makes excuses for him and anybody elses bad behaviour all the time. So she would probably do her rap over the knuckles thing, he would think yay I've got away with my bad behaviour AGAIN and on it would go.
So instead I asked Yi how to deal with this and it was Hex 23 unchanging....

So I Stripped it back sending him a text message about how I don't want him to tell her (even though part of me wants to) but he needs to realise the impact it has on women and it's sexual harrassment even if he doesn't see it that way and a few other things about the value of friendship and trust. His response was yeah sorry I do flirt when I drink and I just took it too far...........

One consideration about not telling her at the moment is this

Yes I see what you mean, my question was more around whether he is trying to break the friendship I have with his wife. Without her I really couldn't have got through some of the things that have happened to me in the last 12 months. Recently she's been extremely busy and also just nursed her sister through her last dying days from cancer including her last breath as she didn't want to be in hospital. I do have other friends but not in the same capacity.

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I ask myself what kind of husband would treat his wife this way after she just went through this bereavement. But I also ask myself what is best for her at this moment ? I think you said in the other thread that she already knows what he's like but chooses to let it go by. I think surely at some point she would leave him.

Yes Hex 52 baffled me a bit too but I guess it does mean don't do anything but could it also mean that this behaviour needs to STOP right here

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.

Yes his behaviour must stop but I don't see 52 here as meaning that here. 52 can at times mean choosing to 'not see' ignore things, remain detached from them.

How would it benefit me to alert my friend about the text message

Hexagram 25.4.6>3
This reads to me to NOT tell her and I should just go along as if nothings happened although it will be Difficult to start with Hex 3. Mind you I'm not good at pretending everything is ok. I was supposed to spend most of the weekend with them helping renovate their new house but I don't feel as though it's appropriate for me nor do I think I'd have the emotional/mental capacity to be able to do that.

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Well 25.6 in general is advice not just to let things roll on by without fully engaging your mind and being deliberate about things. 25.6 is going innocently with the flow a step too far.

It's a strange answer 'Disentanglings's Difficulty at the beginning' (mixing Hilary and Wilhelm there)


On the one hand if his intention was to split your friendship, plus she has just been bereaved also then one might say it isn't the right time to tell her but you also have to think about you.

One thing I did think of is you really must keep his texts because if he took this a step further then you would have some evidence against him. That is worse case scenario of course but it is worth thinking ahead, taking precautions. What if he tried to physically assault or rape you for example. I'm not saying it's likely I'm just saying it's wise to keep anything that incriminates him and also of course you have to protect yourself.

From this answer I feel you need to disentangle from both of them for the time being (him for good I should think). I'm thinking you should tell her then take your distance and let her come to you, alone, to resume the friendship.

I also think it's a pain being involved in couples dynamics. You become a sort of scapegoat for their problems. Now whilst she is wholly innocent she is, at the same time, part of all this. I think if she wants to see you now she needs to come alone, you need to tell the truth for your own safety and then pull back.

This is pathetic

So I Stripped it back sending him a text message about how I don't want him to tell her (even though part of me wants to) but he needs to realise the impact it has on women and it's sexual harrassment even if he doesn't see it that way and a few other things about the value of friendship and trust. His response was yeah sorry I do flirt when I drink and I just took it too far...........

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This wasn't flirting it was intrusive and aggressive. Drinking is no excuse for anything.

Trojina said:

One consideration about not telling her at the moment is this

I ask myself what kind of husband would treat his wife this way after she just went through this bereavement. But I also ask myself what is best for her at this moment ? I think you said in the other thread that she already knows what he's like but chooses to let it go by. I think surely at some point she would leave him.

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.
Unfortunately I doubt she will ever leave him for personal reasons she has told me about long ago - she puts up, shuts up and gets on with it - clearly a highly dysfunctional, codependent relationship but she really does like to live in denial or make excuses for him.

Trojina said:

Yes his behaviour must stop but I don't see 52 here as meaning that here. 52 can at times mean choosing to 'not see' ignore things, remain detached from them.

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I guess that's what his text meant, he's detached from the truth about his behaviour.

Trojina said:

Well 25.6 in general is advice not just to let things roll on by without fully engaging your mind and being deliberate about things. 25.6 is going innocently with the flow a step too far.

It's a strange answer 'Disentanglings's Difficulty at the beginning' (mixing Hilary and Wilhelm there)


On the one hand if his intention was to split your friendship, plus she has just been bereaved also then one might say it isn't the right time to tell her but you also have to think about you.

One thing I did think of is you really must keep his texts because if he took this a step further then you would have some evidence against him. That is worse case scenario of course but it is worth thinking ahead, taking precautions. What if he tried to physically assault or rape you for example. I'm not saying it's likely I'm just saying it's wise to keep anything that incriminates him and also of course you have to protect yourself.
From this answer I feel you need to disentangle from both of them for the time being (him for good I should think). I'm thinking you should tell her then take your distance and let her come to you, alone, to resume the friendship.
I really do believe fear, guilt or self righteousness got the better of him and he told her but yes I'm keeping the texts unless and until.

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I totally want to keep my distance from then now, sadly. The damage has been done - I've forgotten and forgiven him more than once for this and passive/aggressive behaviour but I'm just not prepared to do it anymore even for the sake of our friendship - it's just not right.

Trojina said:

I also think it's a pain being involved in couples dynamics. You become a sort of scapegoat for their problems. Now whilst she is wholly innocent she is, at the same time, part of all this. I think if she wants to see you now she needs to come alone, you need to tell the truth for your own safety and then pull back.

This is pathetic



This wasn't flirting it was intrusive and aggressive. Drinking is no excuse for anything.

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Oh yes totally - there was no flirting involved, I avoided the walk in pantry where he groped me last time and she was with us the whole time - I tend to keep my physical distance from him as best I can, I received the text half hour after I got home and I assume she was fast asleep by then.