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Thread: Castings not as outcomes but as terrain

  1. #1

    Default Castings not as outcomes but as terrain

    More and more I am seeing ALL castings, whether they say good fortune or misfortune, not as straightforward prediction of what will happen but as terrain and tendency -- which then have to combine with human decisions to result in what will actually happen.

    Let me give you an example.

    Several months ago, I was going to meet someone I'd had some contact with. He was going to be a potential partner for future creative endeavors.

    I asked what the prospects for such a meeting looked like.
    I got 12 Standstill, unchanging.
    "Standstill . Evil people do not further the perseverance of the superior man. The great departs; the small approaches."
    "Heaven and earth do not unite: the image of Standstill. Thus the superior man falls back upon his inner worth in order to escape the difficulties. He does not permit himself to be honored with revenue."

    About as unfavorable as it gets, right?

    But it turns out that this contact was actually quite amazing -- he turned out to be an outstanding person and partner, and it in fact resulted in being honored, though quite some time later, with some "revenue."

    So I more recently asked Yi -- what's the deal? Why such a strange result from such a straightforward cast?

    And it responded
    54.1.2.4 Marrying Maiden > 2 The Receptive
    .1: "The Marrying Maiden as a concubine. A lame man who is able to tread. Undertakings bring good fortune.
    .2: "A one-eyed man who is able to see. The perseverance of a solitary man furthers.
    .4: "The Marrying Maiden draws out the allotted time. A late marriage comes in due course.

    I read this as a kind of analogy. Yi is saying: "Look, even in a highly unfavorable situation, like 54, you can make the most of it if you are adept. You took what you could with a positive attitude, and so even though the situation might have been blocked for a while -- like a lame man or a one-eyed man or a concubine, you took what was possible from the situation. Your undertakings and your perseverance worked... eventually. It took some time for the situation to mature to yield concrete results (.4) but they eventually came."

    So I'm starting to think of casts as suggesting the lay of the land and the form of the weather. What you do with that remains an open question, and victory can be pulled from the jaws of defeat or vice-versa.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
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    Terrain or tendency castings are what you get when they are unchanging. As for 54.1.2.4, Nanjing rules give 54.4 -> 19. The Ten Wings commentary on the line is:

    (The purpose in) 'protracting the time' is that, after waiting, the thing may be done (all the better).
    In other words, the approach of authority, meaning the Yi itself, is seen in the resulting hexagram in which its precautions and admonitions are realized.

    Applied to your original question, the impasse of 12 unchanging needs to be waited out until some new and more fruitful beginning takes place. Or, taking 54.1.2.4 -> 2 into account, until you are receptive to something new.

  4. #3
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    So I'm starting to think of casts as suggesting the lay of the land and the form of the weather. What you do with that remains an open question, and victory can be pulled from the jaws of defeat or vice-versa.
    This is exactly how I see it. The future does not exist, but the present has a flow or tendency to it (a Tao). The I ching or any divination is like a compass or weather vane; it doesn't predict the future but it tells you where things are and where they are headed. You can still influence both the present and the future, taking this knowledge into account.

  5. #4

    Default

    More and more I am seeing ALL castings, whether they say good fortune or misfortune, not as straightforward prediction of what will happen but as terrain and tendency -- which then have to combine with human decisions to result in what will actually happen.

    Let me give you an example.

    Several months ago, I was going to meet someone I'd had some contact with. He was going to be a potential partner for future creative endeavors.

    I asked what the prospects for such a meeting looked like.
    I got 12 Standstill, unchanging.
    "Standstill . Evil people do not further the perseverance of the superior man. The great departs; the small approaches."
    "Heaven and earth do not unite: the image of Standstill. Thus the superior man falls back upon his inner worth in order to escape the difficulties. He does not permit himself to be honored with revenue."

    About as unfavorable as it gets, right?

    But it turns out that this contact was actually quite amazing -- he turned out to be an outstanding person and partner, and it in fact resulted in being honored, though quite some time later, with some "revenue."
    I agree oftentimes we are getting a weather report/map/picture of the terrain but there are times we also get predictions. Certainly it is not 'all' readings that are tendency that we can change.

    I have seen more and more that casts can takes a very long time to play out. So you didn't see the 12uc you had a very different experience. That could be because in the long term it is a 12uc thing. In fact I think the most common reason for misunderstanding my answers is my assuming they will play out in a short time frame.

    I found this very thing out the other day. I had asked about having a frank talk with a friend who always let me down by coming late or not at all etc. I had a not very favourable answer I think BUT our frank talk went well. She saw my POV and we agreed we would no longer make arrangements since she would always reschedule about 10 times and it drove me mad. I said just call me at the moment you know you have time and if I have time we will meet. We lived very close so that would be easy. So I went away thinking 'what was all that about. I think the answer was 12.3 will have to check.

    Several years down the line I see what actually happened is we never met up again. Whilst appearing to take on board what I said, to understand, she didn't really. I couldn't have known this for some time since we naturally bump into one another and chat BUT I realized the actual friendship was pretty much finished but it took a long time to recognize that. I actually don't mind anyway, we are still on good terms but all I'm saying is if you got 12uc don't think it has already come and gone, you may recognize it 3 years down the line.

    So I more recently asked Yi -- what's the deal? Why such a strange result from such a straightforward cast?

    And it responded
    54.1.2.4 Marrying Maiden > 2 The Receptive
    .1: "The Marrying Maiden as a concubine. A lame man who is able to tread. Undertakings bring good fortune.
    .2: "A one-eyed man who is able to see. The perseverance of a solitary man furthers.
    .4: "The Marrying Maiden draws out the allotted time. A late marriage comes in due course.

    I read this as a kind of analogy. Yi is saying: "Look, even in a highly unfavorable situation, like 54, you can make the most of it if you are adept. You took what you could with a positive attitude, and so even though the situation might have been blocked for a while -- like a lame man or a one-eyed man or a concubine, you took what was possible from the situation. Your undertakings and your perseverance worked... eventually. It took some time for the situation to mature to yield concrete results (.4) but they eventually came."
    Maybe. I'd be inclined to see it more as you are very willing to take second place in the relationship so don't see the 12 at the moment. I mean I don't know that of course but is he really an 'outstanding person and partner' for the long term ? Sometimes people can really bowl us over with their wonderful personalities and gifts but sometimes long term they turn out to be not like that at all.

    In your shoes with both these answers I'd suggest you keep a close eye on how much you give compared to how much you receive here. You could be being used for example and when people want to use other people they have to be clever, they don't come over as 'I'm going to use you', they actually start out by offering you things, pulling you in. Certainly if you ever feel the strain of indebtedness with him it's time to look back to the 12uc and the 54.

    I don't think that 12uc was just for the moment but it may be so long term it's hard to see right now.
    I think your 54 answer was Yi going into more detail about why you got the 12, I don't see it as an analogy as you do.

    Of course regardless of what answers you get you have to use your own judgement. There may be great benefit in the association at the moment but it pays to stay aware of the 12uc I think.

    So I'm starting to think of casts as suggesting the lay of the land and the form of the weather. What you do with that remains an open question, and victory can be pulled from the jaws of defeat or vice-versa.
    Yes often, mostly what happens is up to the advice we choose to take from Yi about how to proceed or not and that can change how things happen. Fundamentally I agree with you BUT as I explained above I have found answers really can hold good long after we thought they were 'wrong'. Also it isn't the case IMO that 'ALL' answers as you highlighted simply showed terrain. Take answers about others dying for example, there isn't a lot we can change about that and also other things in life are destined , are simply part of the human experience. It is a mistake to imagine we can alter any circumstance we want to I think and I do think Yi at times shows us, teaches us about those times we must accept an occurrence or how to handle a 'hardship' we cannot avoid however clever we are.

    Of course we are always going to fail if we state 'Yi ALWAYS' does XYZ because then it goes and does something else. this is why we are all still talking about it

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  7. #5
    Join Date
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    Germany
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    In my experience the results I got were most of the times indeed either a prediction or a description, respectively mirroring the situation.

  8. #6
    Join Date
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    There are many kinds of terrains. The terrain of Time, the terrain of Feelings, the terrain of..... You name it - beside the physical terrain which I think the ancient used in a time where the most of everything was unexplored.
    Last edited by svenrus; January 26th, 2018 at 10:05 AM. Reason: where ? Grammar.... sorry
    Awakening in young Yang,
    fulfilling in old Yang,
    enjoying in young Yin,
    resting in old Yin.
    The daily, annual and existencial cyclus.

  9. #7

    Default

    As Terence McKenna put it: it can point towards the right direction (which meets Trojina's feeling about fairly long-term situation), but it will be up to you to discover the landscape during that journey.

    I also feel that free-will is very important to I Ching, and its readings are a wise mix of the energy of the moment, the tendency towards what that energy of the moment might develop into, and what we do with all that.

    Personally, I always eventually do what my gut tells me, even if the I Ching reading is not that bright about that particular plan. If the reading seemed unfavorable at least I am prepared in order to face the situation with I Ching wise words in my pocket during the journey.
    I see my intuition as the compass, and the I Ching as a Jiminy Cricket telling me what do I need to be careful about if I go in that direction

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