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Inverse and Opposite hexagram

jjsalas

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I have a doubt because there's a lot of confusing information out there.

Before I explain it, I want to clarify some terms to be sure we are talking the same languaje.

Inverse hexagram: The hexagram is the result of turning it upside down. So, the inverse of 25 is 26.
Opposite hexagram: It is the result of changing all the lines of the hegram, so the opposite of 25 is 46.

The question is: Some authors claim that the inverse hexagram gives you an idea of what IS NOT the original hexagram, and that the opposite hexagram gives you an idea of the origin of the original hexagram.

My intuition tells me that's wrong, it's just the opposite. the inverse hexagram tells you the origin of the original hexagram and the opposite hexagram tells you what the IS NOT the original hexagram.

Could you clarify for me a little bit?

Thank you very much.

(Sorry about my english).
 

moss elk

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The question is: Some authors claim that the inverse hexagram gives you an idea of what IS NOT the original hexagram...

This is not a universally applicable idea.
Obviously, there are hexagrams that are the same when Inverted. (hex 1, hex 30...etc) The idea sounds similar to what people call Shadow hexagrams. (I've never had the need to use them, I'm confident in my reading ability)

The hexagram itself is sufficiently informative to understand it. There is no need to look at a different hex to comprehend the one you got.
 

Trojina

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I have a doubt because there's a lot of confusing information out there.

Before I explain it, I want to clarify some terms to be sure we are talking the same languaje.

Inverse hexagram: The hexagram is the result of turning it upside down. So, the inverse of 25 is 26.
Opposite hexagram: It is the result of changing all the lines of the hegram, so the opposite of 25 is 46.


It can be hard to hold all in one brain I had to go over to the Wikiwing section on hexagrams of context..(.I am sure it used to be bigger I wonder if it has shrunk ? Didn't there used to be more hexagrams of context there @hilary; also tagging for if she has more to say)


You have it right. The inverse of 11 is 12, the inverse of 25 is 26. So most pairs I think work like this except the pairs that are opposites or complements such as 27/28 and erm...63/64


There's an entire course on the sequence available in Change Circle. You might find that clarifies a lot of that confusing information out there.

The question is: Some authors claim that the inverse hexagram gives you an idea of what IS NOT the original hexagram, and that the opposite hexagram gives you an idea of the origin of the original hexagram.


Ooh my brain struggles. The inverse hexagram is merely the other side of the pair as 11 is to 12. So all you need to think about is how pairs work together. Really I think it is helpful never to forget the other of the pair that you have cast.


The opposite or complement is where each line is the opposite. So the complement to 63 is 64 (also a pair) but the complements aren't always pairs. The complement/opposite of 50 is 3. I have the idea that this indicates whilst they look very different they are interconnected in such a way as to almost depend on one another. That is maybe what you mean by 'the origin of the original hexagram' ? There is a whole thread, started by Rosada I think, on ideas about how opposites slot into one another in our experience. I will link if I can find it. Here it is


Anyone in Wikiwing can read all about the complement here

My intuition tells me that's wrong, it's just the opposite. the inverse hexagram tells you the origin of the original hexagram and the opposite hexagram tells you what the IS NOT the original hexagram.

Could you clarify for me a little bit?


Well the inverse is just one half of a pair and of course with 27/28 whichever way you turn them they look the same. I'm thinking what you mean by 'original hexagram' is the cast hexagram. You are right I think...sort of will have to look it up again.



The shadow is a concept developed by Karcher I think where you count inwards as in


64 is the shadow of 1

63 is the shadow of 2 etc etc


The idea is one might be tempted to really want to act in the way of the shadow hexagram but it's not a good idea.




Re what Moss Elk said I don't entirely agree. There is no need to look at hexagrams of context at all in readings but that doesn't mean they aren't worth looking at or being aware of sometimes. It is worth widening your awareness of these because the sequence carries all kinds of patterns and meanings within itself and it is sometimes interesting to think how the hexagram you cast relates to the sequence as a whole. Hilary must have thought so which is why she wrote a course on it all.
 

heylise

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I use the opposite and the inverse hexagrams very often. They give the original hexagram a kind of landscape.

One thing though: 11 is NOT the inverse of 12 (edit: Trojina is right, the pair 27-28 is not inverse and a few others, but 11-12 is as inverse as they come).

There is a paper by Edward Hacker and Steve Moore – 'A brief note on the two-part division of the received order of the hexagrams in the Zhouyi' in which this is explained. If they are right, it is the reason for the division in two unequal parts of the Yijing. See https://www.yijing.nl/structures/mirrors/

I have been exploring the inverse and opposite hexagrams, and I am trying to put it all in an overview. https://www.yijing.nl/structures/mirrors/refl+contr/ The pages are far from being complete, for the time being it is my own space for figuring it out.

I found out that ‘opposite’ is not the right term, but it is the one most people will understand, so I guess it will stay. Contrast seems to fit better. Very often the contrast is either the situation or (more often it seems) the action. Like e.g in 5 waiting for something, and in 6 fighting for something. The situation is not entirely different, but the action is.

I get the impression, that for 'inversed' it is rather the situation which is different, but the action more or less similar. Maybe when looking further into them, I am wrong. so far it is only based of a few examples.

I made pictures of the groups of contrasts and inversions, because for me that makes it easier to encompass. Like Trojina said: it is not easy to wrap your mind around the whole thing at once.
In the future I will make a link to the pages, so they are accessible, but for now I am just trying to get it right.

When I try to explain it to someone, I usually paint the image of a narrow Italian street. Washing lines from one side to the other. If you look from one window, you see the underwear first and the dresses behind it. But from the window on the other side you see the dresses and behind them the underwear. It is the same line, the same clothes, but you get an 'opposite' view on it, and you might notice some things you couldn't see from the other side.

I use it to get a better understanding of hexagrams, not especially of a reading. But the better understanding is a help with readings of course. Any better understanding is.
 
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Trojina

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One thing though: 11 is NOT the inverse of 12. Hex. 11 is the inverse of 11, and 12 is the inverse of 12. They both don’t show their inverse, because how can you tell the difference between 11 and 11?


If you turn 11 upside down it is 12. If you turn 12 upside down it is 11. That is what I meant, what is meant, by 'inverse'.


I found out that ‘opposite’ is not the right term, but it is the one most people will understand, so I guess it will stay. Contrast seems to fit better. Very often the contrast is either the situation or (more often it seems) the action. Like e.g in 5 waiting for something, and in 6 fighting for something. The situation is not entirely different, but the action is.


No, we are talking about structural opposites. 5 and 6 aren't opposites/complements. Opposites/complements are where each line is different so the opposite of 5 is 35 and the opposite of 6 is 36.


5 and 6 are an inverse pair not opposites.



I get the impression, that for 'reversed' it is rather the situation which is different, but the action more or less similar. Maybe when looking further into them, I am wrong. so far it is only based of a few examples.


By 'reversed' do you mean inverse ?

When I try to explain it to someone, I usually paint the image of a narrow Italian street. Washing lines from one side to the other. If you look from one window, you see the underwear first and the dresses behind it. But from the window on the other side you see the dresses and behind them the underwear. It is the same line, the same clothes, but you get an 'opposite' view on it, and you might notice some things you couldn't see from the other side.


So there you seem to be describing an inverse pair like 5 and 6. That's not an opposite.

Doesn't help that everyone uses different terms for different things.
 

heylise

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Sorry, I seem to have made a load of mistakes. Yes, 11 is the inverse of 12, I was thinking of 27 and 28, 61 and 62 and swept 11 and 12 along without thinking.

And yes, 5 and 6 are inverse, not opposite.

Yes, reversed = inversed. And the washing line is inversed.

It seems I didn't have a very bright day. Thank you for pointing it all out.
 

Trojina

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Sorry, I seem to have made a load of mistakes.

You have your mind on higher things. Like this below :bows:


There is a paper by Edward Hacker and Steve Moore – 'A brief note on the two-part division of the received order of the hexagrams in the Zhouyi' in which this is explained. If they are right, it is the reason for the division in two unequal parts of the Yijing. See https://www.yijing.nl/structures/mirrors/


That already just looks too difficult to me :flirt:


One thing though I definitely think it is therapeutic to have the structure of the I Ching to think about, the sequence patterns and so on. I have often been distracted from my problems or darker thoughts by suddenly wondering about what is the opposite of what. Often can't do it in my head have to find pen and paper.
 

hilary

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11/12 are one of four special pairs that are both inverse and opposite. It's interesting to try to see what effect that has on their relationship.

(A lovely meditation on pairs and other relationships: Jane Schorre and Carrin Dunne, Yijing Wondering and Wandering. I think it's available now via Google Books.)

The original question was what these things mean - very good question. I like to start with what the two hexagrams actually look like.

Inverse pairs look like LiSe's street of washing: the same scene from a different angle. (I didn't really 'get' this until I saw the Zagua for 37/38, which says 37 is inside and 38 is outside.) In a way, one Is Not the other, in that if you are going north along the street you're not going south, and if you're inside you're not outside. If you toss a coin and it lands heads, then that IS NOT tails... but tails is the other side of the same coin.

Complements/opposites, like 27 and 28, look like pieces of a jigsaw that slot together, or like a seal and its imprint, or a negative and its photograph. Two things that are different at every point - 27 is the hexagram most different from 28 - but also recognisably the same shape. There isn't really a straightforward way to express that, is there? But you can see - from the 'seal and imprint' analogy - where someone could get the idea from that it shows an origin. (Not an idea I've ever found useful in readings, though.)
 

heylise

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11/12 are one of four special pairs that are both inverse and opposite. It's interesting to try to see what effect that has on their relationship.
...
Complements/opposites, like 27 and 28, look like pieces of a jigsaw that slot together, or like a seal and its imprint, or a negative and its photograph.
The special pairs are what I want to explore after I get the inverse and opposite more or less clear. It is like keeping an eye on 7 newborn goats – as if your mind has to be in 7 places at once. Ever tried feeding them and keeping track of which are fed and which not yet? I had to, and we were not prepared for 7 of them. We had only 4 mama’s. All 7 babies were female, we were the talk of the goat farmers all around here.

There is inverse and there is opposite but there is also inverse/opposite. Like 5 and 36. I remember jigsaw puzzles with a picture on the front and also on the back. Those were the really big challenge. Maybe inverse/opposite is like those.
 

GreenHazel

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I use the opposite and the inverse hexagrams very often. They give the original hexagram a kind of landscape.

(...)

I have been exploring the inverse and opposite hexagrams, and I am trying to put it all in an overview. https://www.yijing.nl/structures/mirrors/refl+contr/ The pages are far from being complete, for the time being it is my own space for figuring it out.

I found out that ‘opposite’ is not the right term, but it is the one most people will understand, so I guess it will stay. Contrast seems to fit better. Very often the contrast is either the situation or (more often it seems) the action. Like e.g in 5 waiting for something, and in 6 fighting for something. The situation is not entirely different, but the action is.

I get the impression, that for 'inversed' it is rather the situation which is different, but the action more or less similar. Maybe when looking further into them, I am wrong. so far it is only based of a few examples.:)

I made pictures of the groups of contrasts and inversions, because for me that makes it easier to encompass. Like Trojina said: it is not easy to wrap your mind around the whole thing at once.
In the future I will make a link to the pages, so they are accessible, but for now I am just trying to get it right.

When I try to explain it to someone, I usually paint the image of a narrow Italian street. Washing lines from one side to the other. If you look from one window, you see the underwear first and the dresses behind it. But from the window on the other side you see the dresses and behind them the underwear. It is the same line, the same clothes, but you get an 'opposite' view on it, and you might notice some things you couldn't see from the other side.

I use it to get a better understanding of hexagrams, not especially of a reading. But the better understanding is a help with readings of course. Any better understanding is.

^ This post was gold. Thank you SO much, your link with the images of the reflection and contrast at once made me see the light. It's the clearer explanation I've found so far, also your image of the Italian street with the hanging clothes is great.:)

So

Reflection Hex = Mirrors or Reverse
Contrast Hex = Opposite or Complementary

Yes? :D (*hopeful*)
 

heylise

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Still working on them, but slowly. This past year has been weird, too hectic, but also filled with new ideas and motivation to work on the Yi.

And yes, I agree with the reflection and contrast. It seems though that all labels overlap each other a bit, so I also get confused quite often. Especially the reflection + contrast :sick: and on another day it is no problem at all. I learned to leave them alone on the ":sick:-days", because everything ends up in a tangle.

Right now I am concentrating more on the hexagram-explanations, with the trigrams as an important part of the hexagram. Just a very short mention of the contrast/opposite and nothing about the reflection yet.

I have a chronic shortage of myselves. I'd want to do so much more, and if possible everything at once.
 

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(Just to create vast confusion for everyone, I called the Zagua 'Contrasts' in my book, so that means you get all kinds of pair labelled as 'Contrast'. :paperbag:)
 

heylise

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(Just to create vast confusion for everyone, I called the Zagua 'Contrasts' in my book, so that means you get all kinds of pair labelled as 'Contrast'. :paperbag:)
Umm, what are zagua? I found this: 雜卦 and searched in Bradford's Yi, but it doesn't seem he has them. But when I looked in your book, it is the all-lines-opposite hexagram. Which is the same one I also call contrast. And some pairs are contrasts but not all of them.
Zagua - nice!
I guess the paperbag can go into the paper-recycling bin?
 

Trojina

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(Just to create vast confusion for everyone, I called the Zagua 'Contrasts' in my book, so that means you get all kinds of pair labelled as 'Contrast'. :paperbag:)

Which book ? You haven't written about contrasts in 'walking your path..' maybe you mean sequence book ?
 

Liselle

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After being very confused since yesterday - is this part of it?

Hilary uses the term "Pair" in her book as the section heading -
IMG_8478-10pct-annotated.jpg

- but then in the sentence below either says "forms a pair with" (for inverse, turn-180-degrees pairs) or "is paired and contrasted with" for complementary, change-every-line-to-its-opposite pairs, and also for pairs which are both of those.
IMG_8480-annotated.jpg IMG_8481-annotated.jpg
 
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Trojina

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glad I'm not the only confused one, thought Hilary had written a whole other book I'd never heard of.
 

Liselle

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Yes, I was prepared to be very peeved if that was true. :mad:

Let's see though, on the subject of writing more books/websites, we have Hilary, Harmen, and now LiSe on the list of people we need clones of. Whom do we email about this.
 

Trojina

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Yes, I was prepared to be very peeved if that was true. :mad:

Me too, I'd feel it was a conspiracy that everyone knew about said book but me.


I don't think we need clones though, one of each is enough. I mean if we can't keep up with one of Hilary how would we keep up with 3 ? I still haven't digested the Sequence course - if there were 3 of her there'd be not only the sequence course but other courses and we'd be left behind.
 

Liselle

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I don't think we need clones though, one of each is enough. I mean if we can't keep up with one of Hilary how would we keep up with 3 ? I still haven't digested the Sequence course - if there were 3 of her there'd be no tonly the sequence course but other courses and we'd be left behind.
That...is a distressingly good point. It clashes with my inner greedy piglet. 🐽 (Or rat. As the case may be.)
 

hilary

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Umm, what are zagua? I found this: 雜卦 and searched in Bradford's Yi, but it doesn't seem he has them. But when I looked in your book, it is the all-lines-opposite hexagram. Which is the same one I also call contrast. And some pairs are contrasts but not all of them.
Zagua - nice!
I guess the paperbag can go into the paper-recycling bin?
I just meant the 10th Wing - nothing clever. I think I should keep the paper bag close to hand.
Which book ? You haven't written about contrasts in 'walking your path..' maybe you mean sequence book ?
After being very confused since yesterday - is this part of it?

Hilary uses the term "Pair" in her book as the section heading -
View attachment 2450

- but then in the sentence below either says "forms a pair with" (for inverse, turn-180-degrees pairs) or "is paired and contrasted with" for complementary, change-every-line-to-its-opposite pairs, and also for pairs which are both of those.
View attachment 2445 View attachment 2451
Happily, Liselle knows WYPCYF better than I do. Turns out I had the sense 9 years ago to differentiate between 'paired' and 'paired and contrasted'. Well, I'm glad someone knows what I'm doing.
 

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