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Hexagram 5 Waiting, be patient or is it don't wait, or wait too long

Music-Man

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Hexagram 5 uc. On the face of it seems to warn about impatience and waiting. But can it also mean don't wait, or don't wait too long. Also, is it poking fun?
 

rosada

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Consulting the I Ching often feels like we are doing more than just looking up things in The Answer Book. Sometimes you get the sense you are having a conversation with a conscious intelligence and at those times it can indeed seem that the Yi is being witty or sarcastic or even poking fun. However if you are wondering if 5.Waiting in itself is meant to mean any of those attitudes, then no, I think it's most helpful to read it as a straight description of the attitude one should maintain waiting and the key advice seems to be that one should not work themselves up into a tizzy with imagined negative outcomes but instead to enjoy the moment and thus when the inevitable does finally arrive one is able to meet it with clarity and respect which can go along ways towards minimizing any unfortunate potentials.

If you backtrack bit and consider the previous hexagrams there seems to be a pattern forming that suggests the Mind, the Creative Initiator, tends to keep asking more questions than the Receptive can comfortably respond to ( thus 2.6, the dragons fighting). this leads to Difficulty and The Fool needs to more throughly understand his position (4.2), or Wait until he grow up a bit, before he can advance further.

I remember the lines of 5. Waiting as meaning..
5.1 Be patient.
5.2 It's okay to think things over or chat a bit with folks while you're waiting but beware of creating problems with idle gossip.
5.3 Too much pointless chatter about all the unknown possible dangers and things that could go wrong could leave you unable to act when the time comes.
5.4 In fact you could find yourself all worked up and worried to death.
5.5 Better to spend this time doing something positive.
5.6 Then whatever comes you'll be able to deal with it.
 

marybluesky

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Hello Lucky Guy!

I tend to take the advice as it's said not the reverse. I've heard that sometimes the I Ching shows the way you shouldn't go. I don't see it this way.
 
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Freedda

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'Waiting' is only one name (or handle, or title) for Hexagram 5. Looking at the trigrams - Kan, or Water above, and Qian, or Heaven below - one idea is there are rain clouds above (or on the horizon), but the rain is still in the skies, and has not yet fallen on us - so we are in a state of Anticipation (another name for 5).

It's interesting that the actual text of the Oracle says nothing about 'waiting'; instead we have:

Be true. Honor fulfillment. Persistence is timely. Worthwhile to cross the great stream.

Or, in another translation:

There is blessing and protection. (A) Glorious accepted offering. The divination will be auspicious. (It is) Advantageous to cross the great river.

So, we are acutally being told to do something, and that it might be worthwhile or advantageous to undertake (as in crossing a river) a task or action.

And this leads us to another associated idea - that this is not simply a time of waiting (which could imply doing little or nothing - as we might wait in a doctor's office), but that we should be 'Making the Most of Waiting', yet another name for 5.

Building on this idea - as an artist, I could imagine that this is describing a time when my creativity is stiffled, creative juices are not flowing, so the take-away might be: 'it's time to roll up your sleeves and do _____ (continue to take action, perhaps to continue to make art even in the absence of creative inspiration).'

********

Taking off from what rosada said about a 'sense you are having a conversation with a conscious intelligence ....' I'm reminded that a 'conversation' with another is most benefical when it is two-way - and that both parties are present. So, just looking at a particular hexagram as we're doing here - without the benefit of an actual question, or query, or situation, or person(s) can only give us a partial view or understand about what hexagram 5 is about.

For example, the situation here could be of a farmer who's prepared and planted their field and are now awaiting a gentle rain to start things growing; or it could be a farmer who's not yet finished tilling, so is anxiously hoping that the rain won't come at all; or perhaps a young groom waiting for the wedding to start; or the same groom - now a few years older- who is waiting for his spouse to file divorce papers; or it could concern an artist who has finished a new series, and is now waiting for their work to be shown .... or, an almost infinate number of situations which we could be asking about.

And in each case the text and lines and trigrams could be carryihng different meanings or advice (maybe only slightly- or maybe greatly-so) - and the advice might be more than to just 'wait this one out' (though that could be a possibility as well).

To quote Harmen Mesker, from his Ten Laws of Proper Yijing Practice Explained (March 2010):

If you receive the same hexagram three times you have three different answers.

All the best, freedda.
 
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hilary

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It's interesting that the actual text of the Oracle says nothing about 'waiting'; instead we have:

Be true. Honor fulfillment. Persistence is timely. Worthwhile to cross the great stream.

Or, in another translation:

There is blessing and protection. (A) Glorious accepted offering. The divination will be auspicious. (It is) Advantageous to cross the great river.

Actually, the hexagram is only called 'Waiting' because that's the first word of its text. That's how hexagrams get their 'names'. The first word/ name of the hexagram normally works as part of the sentence; this one begins, 'Waiting, there is truth.'

Basically, it's advice to wait. Some of the moving lines advise you not to wait in a particular place/ mindset, though.

(Yes, it can poke fun - any hexagram can. I remember once asking about the future and getting 5 changing to 20: 'Wait and See'.)
 

jukkodave

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Or is Hexagram 5 more about sincerity.
There wouldnt be much point in waiting just for the sake of it, that would be procastination. It is waiting with sincerity that is the message of Hexagram 5. But then we have to understand what "sincerity" is and that requires that we looky beyond the literal, external definitions and try t ocomprehend the underlying principles of what Hexagram 5 is saying.

Waiting with sincerity. Not just being impobile and waiting, but waiting with a specific purpose.

All the best

Dave
 
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Freedda

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Actually, the hexagram is only called 'Waiting' because that's the first word of its text. That's how hexagrams get their 'names'. The first word/ name of the hexagram normally works as part of the sentence; this one begins, 'Waiting, there is truth.' .... Basically, it's advice to wait.
Hilary, thanks for that clarification. It seems then that some author's 'names' describe a bit more of what they feel is happening with a particular hexagram, for example, Cyrille Javary's 'Making the Most of Waiting.' And I might find that useful, maybe even essential, but it is not - strickly speaking - the name of the hexagram. I can live with that! :cool:

As to the actual hexgram name, 'Xu', I was looking at other meanings for this word and found: essential, anticipation, expectation, (to) watch for, necessity, (to) defer - among others (all from Hatcher's glosses, though I don't know which of these were in use at the time the Zhouyi was written).

I wonder then, how many of these (or other) names/words might be valid 'meanings' and how might they change the meaning or message of the hexagram? For example:

Expecting, with truth and confidence. Shining out, creating success: constance brings good fortune. Fruitful to cross the great river.

Watching, with truth and confidence. Shining out, creating success: constance brings good fortune. Fruitful to cross the great river.

Deferring, with truth and confidence. Shining out, creating success: constance brings good fortune. Fruitful to cross the great river.​

Best, David.
 

hilary

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Hilary, thanks for that clarification. It seems then that some author's 'names' describe a bit more of what they feel is happening with a particular hexagram, for example, Cyrille Javary's 'Making the Most of Waiting.' And I might find that useful, maybe even essential, but it is not - strickly speaking - the name of the hexagram. I can live with that! :cool:

Absolutely - not to mention Wilhelm/Baynes' 'Work on what has been spoiled' for Hexagram 18.
As to the actual hexgram name, 'Xu', I was looking at other meanings for this word and found: essential, anticipation, expectation, (to) watch for, necessity, (to) defer - among others (all from Hatcher's glosses, though I don't know which of these were in use at the time the Zhouyi was written).
Nor do I... Harmen probably does, of course. You can also search through the Shijing for the character and see how it's translated. The higher-numbered songs are close in age to the Zhouyi.

As I understand it, 5's core meanings are waiting, expecting and needing.
I wonder then, how many of these (or other) names/words might be valid 'meanings' and how might they change the meaning or message of the hexagram? For example:

Expecting, with truth and confidence. Shining out, creating success: constance brings good fortune. Fruitful to cross the great river.

Watching, with truth and confidence. Shining out, creating success: constance brings good fortune. Fruitful to cross the great river.

Deferring, with truth and confidence. Shining out, creating success: constance brings good fortune. Fruitful to cross the great river.​

Best, David.
'Expecting' is definitely a good one. It's more 'waiting for' than just 'waiting', I think, so the question is how best to wait, where to wait, what you're inviting by waiting in this way. 'Deferring' doesn't strike any chords for me, though.
 
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Freedda

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Absolutely - not to mention Wilhelm/Baynes' 'Work on what has been spoiled' for Hexagram 18.
And then there is 'Resolving the Conflict' - Cyrille Javary's 6, and 'Many Forms Within One' - Nigel Richmond's 7 ... etc.

Generally, I like to look at this variety of names to get some sense of a hexagram's meaning, and to also explore what others might have to tell me about it, and to spark some ideas, juxtapositions, synchronicities, meaningful coincidences, etc. - which may or may not always be in (a straight) line with the usual meanings (I'm staring to remind myself of a past member, whom shall remain nameless for now!).

Nor do I... Harmen probably does, of course. You can also search through the Shijing for the character and see how it's translated. The higher-numbered songs are close in age to the Zhouyi.
I think Harmen does too. What is the Shijing?

'Deferring' doesn't strike any chords for me, though.
It doesn't strike a chord for me either - and I used it as an example only - except that it might mean to 'defer' or wait until ... one has more information? or that the situation as matured, or revealed itself, or you are more ready to deal with it ... or?

Again, thanks, David.
 

jukkodave

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Are we forgetting that the translations of ancient Chinese do not exactly correlate with words as we think of them.
So I think that becuase the waiting is with "sincerity" that it is the sincerity that is the main principle in Hexagram 5 and not waiting, even though that is the lable that has become attached to it.

If there is no sincerity one is just waiting, and nothing of consequence. There is nothing in the universe that ever "waits" for anything. Only a being with consciousness can defer the attention to something else. So while we are waiting what will we defer our attention to. The Yi directs us to sincerity.
the questin then is what is meant by the concept, in terms of the Yi, of sincerity.

All the beast

Dave
 

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