Hi,I'm new here. Having mega relationship issues and need help interpreting. I hope this is ok as I have read that these questions are sometimes not appreciated...Question:Will "X" and I as a couple overcome the obstacles?I got 29.4.5 to 40Blessings,Miruggi

You don't give many details and no own interpretation that makes it a bit difficult to connect the result with your situation.
But, from what is to be seen, I believe, there is still potential. First of all, I think it is important not to expect great results very soon. It will take its time, be patient. It's very important to be sincere, which includes speaking your heart, but at the same time definitely don't demand too much right now. Try to improve the little things, bring back the sweetness between you two with small gestures.

Line 5 says the problems, as unpleasant as they may be,
probably won't get any worse than they already are.
'the canyon isn't overflowing.'

Line 4 says to communicate plainly and directly about the issues.

the 40...
is it realease from danger,
or is it counsel to forgive?

What do tou think?

miruggi said:

I hope this is ok as I have read that these questions are sometimes not appreciated..

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... it's not that relationship question aren't appreciated in general. Only the circumstance that some people ask thousand times about one matter AND at the same time abandon their threads, respectively do ignore answers is very unpopular. And strangely, there seems to be a correlation between relationship questions and this behaviour somehow.

So, feel welcome here. And feel free to ask any question, no matter if it is about relationships or whatever is on your heart.

Equinox...I’ve read many of your posts in other threads...was therefore pleased you replied. I’m going to respond with details but am on an iPhone which is a pain to type on...biste auch Deutsche/r?...ich bin in Muenchen...

...Hello again equinox, as for the details, where do I start? I'll try and make this succinct:- we met in 2015 when I was married...ended up leaving my then husband for him (marriage already in trouble due to miscarriage)- after I moved in with him and left the security of my old life, the patterns I learned from my parents from childhood reared their ugly head...I became manipulative and threatened him with leaving if he didn't give me the attention I felt I deserved (am doing a lot of self work and reflection including therapy)- August 2017, separation...he in his place me in my own apartment...plan to take it day-by-day. A month later he said he needed the breakup because he still felt resentment and pressure but that his love hadn't just "disappeared". We took a 6-week break and when we talked again he said he was still "curious" about me and wanted to see what happens piece-by-piece- Since then we've seen each other here and there and what keeps coming up is his resentment. I recently told him I needed time to continue working on myself (therapy)...he said this helps him...it's been 4 weeks and I still feel a bit strung along and am waiting until I feel strong enough to contact him....I just cannot seem to give him up...it's awful....I've done so many readings, probably asked the same question many times and both times I asked about long term potential I got 35.6 to 16...

thank you Moss Elk...I think it is actually "counsel to forgive"....if you read my reply to Equinox...you will see that I have behaved quite badly...lots of stuff from childhood which I am currently working on....X just resents me so much and is extremely afraid if we come back together, I will hurt him again... he too has a lot of childhood wounds...

Here's another interesting reading I received: X and I work in the same building...I passed him the other day outside...he looked at me and smiled...since we're in a type of "radio silence" since I told him I needed space to work on myself, I asked the following:"What is a likely outcome of X having seen me?" I received 64.2.6 changing to 16....To answer the question of what my interpretation is...I feel that X and I have enormous potential and that he still loves me but the the biggest thing standing in the way are his issues which I am not sure he is dealing with...

Hello Mru_17,
ja, ich bin auch aus Deutschland

still thinking that the best thing you can do is to give you and him a lot of time. Focus on friendship and small gestures and try to solve your troubles in the meantime. You shouldn't and can't rush things now how matter how desperately you want them. In this situation, I think, the more desperately you want and insist on it, the bigger the chance that you'll mess it up.

Am I getting you right and the 29.4.5 result is one of many that you had before? Do you remember your first question and the result you received, when you asked about him?

Servus Equinox,The first question I asked on another oracle after the breakup was in September „What is a possible outcome of this breakup?“ and got 61.2 to 42...You are correct about the the fact that the more I insist, the bigger the chance I’ll mess it up. I’m working on that aspect of myself too...trying to find out why I insist and can’t let go...perhaps God is trying to teach me patience...

Hello Mru_17, I am back here tomorrow at night. Have a good evening.

Interesting developments...just came face-to-face with X again this morning (this time as I was getting out of an elevator). Looked him right in the eye and just said "hi"....then I asked the following question: What is a likely outcome of just having seen X?"...I got 15.3 changing to 2...the last time I asked this question after just having seen him I got what I wrote above: 64.2.6 changing to 16.Equinox asked yesterday about other readings...I need to reclarify a bit:I first asked another Iching oracle "what is a possible outcome of this breakup?" and got 62.2 to 42Then I asked the following in here...these are just a handful of many readings...I can provide more details here if necessary.I asked about relationship potential with X and got 8.5 to 2I asked about LONGTERM relationship potential with X and got 29.2.5 to 2I asked "what will happen if I relax and trust X's love for me?" and got 35.6 to 16I asked "what is the best attitude to tak to the relationship with X" and got 35.6 to 16Yesterday I asked (for which I made my first post) "Will Xand I as a couple overcome the obstacles?" and got 29.4.5 to 40All-in-all my interpretation is that EVERYTHING is in the AIR....

Mru_17 said:

but the the biggest thing standing in the way are his issues which I am not sure he is dealing with...

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I believe you shouldn't care too much now about if he is working on his issues -- the most important thing is that you work on your issues. Maybe you think that it doesn't make any sense to work on your stuff, if he doesn't. Maybe you think, nothing will change between you two, if he doesn't change as well.
I think you both have an equally great fear of loss and intimacy and if you are the one starting to overcome your anxieties, then the chance is great that he will follow automatically. It's unnecessary and contrapoductive to apply force that is fueled by the fear of loss.

This is not just a general truth. It's what your result is talking of:

You asked 'What is a possible outcome of this breakup' and received 61.2, a line which indeed speaks of a deep and sincere spiritual connection between the two of you.

I quote from Wilhelm:

[...]This refers to the involuntary influence of a man's inner being upon persons of kindred spirit. The crane need not show itself on a high hill. It may be quite hidden when it sounds its call; yet its young will hear its not, will recognize it and give answer. [...]The root of all influence lies in one's own inner being: given true and vigorous expression in word and deed, its effect is great. The effect is but the reflection of something that emanates from one's own heart. Any deliberate intention of an effect would only destroy the possibility of producing it.

This line is saying that your inner connection is so strong, that even if he appears to be so far from you, he will be deeply influenced by your vibes -- I mean, everyone is influenced by our vibes anyways at any time and so much more if there is a connection like 61.2 describes.

Maybe the higher purpose of your seperation is that you get the chance to learn to trust in the invisible, but existing connection you have with the people that you love and therefore you don't have to fear loss. Indeed the relating hexagram 42 of 61.2 is not loss, but gain, btw. So this seperation seemed to be necessary and potentially could even be a blessing in disguise.

The beautiful words of 61.2 contain a implicit warning. Great potential is the best premise, but of course its not promised that this potential will play out in a way you wish. I think it depends on how you two are able to handle it. You really have to focus on finding your equilibrium, instead of focusing to repair this relationship instantly, because... I rather quote Wilhelm again:

Where there is a joyous mood, there a comrade will appear to share a glass of wine. This is the echo awakened in men through spiritual attraction. Whenever a feeling is voiced with truth and frankness, whenever a deed is the clear expression of sentiment, a mysterious and far-reaching influence is exerted.

Same goes for the opposite, the bad mood. He will feel feel all the dark vibes of you as well and act accordingly. That doesn't say that you are a bad person having these feelings. Think of what Moss Elk wrote, it's maybe also about forgiving (yourself). You have these wounds of your childhood, that is not your fault and now you get the great chance to finally heal them. X seems to be able to trigger this proccess in you and vice versa. There is this saying that has its truth: A broken heart is a open heart. So, heart ache is actually a good thing because it will bring you in contact with your vulnerabilitites -- if you know about them, you can learn to deal with them.

Please don't understand my words in a way that he is not responsible and it is all in your hands. It is not. Same goes for him, but it looks like somebody has to make the beginning. And since you are the one asking ...

Herzlichen Dank Equinox...I read your post twice and will read it again because it is so helpful. We obviously don't know each other but what I can tell you is the following:One of the first things I did after the breakup was check myself into a German-type Krisenklinik...I couldn't handle the immensity of being alone after 12 years, 10 of which were with a husband who is a good person yet has a deep need for harmony and obeyed my every wish. I was, at last, confronted with myself after using my patterns on X who refused to accept me using force fuelled by fear of loss. Since then I've been doing all kinds of therapy (working on this inner being), trying to get used to being alone and generally being a more authentic and empathic person (so healing childhood wounds). And you're right to have pointed out Moss Elk's comment - I've been blaming myself. X's parents escaped from the DDR and were caught. He and his sibling were in an orphanage for some months as children so definitely there are trust issues there which I triggered big time. The funny thing is that I even went to a type of spiritual counsellor who said the same as you - X and I have a deep spiritual connection (huge amounts of past karma together) but the the only key to this ever working out, is me coming to myself and finding that equilibrium from which I can act instead of acting out of fear and loss. You see, this was X's biggest criticism of me - that I act out of fear of loss. And this behaviour a remnant of childhood. I must say I have been skeptical of the oracle, also due to the fact that I am religious and this sort of thing doesn't fare well in Christian circles. Nevertheless, it has been immensely helpful to make some sense out of these readings and it is even more amazing that it coincides with other things I have learned over these last months of what feels like torture. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for putting the time into your answer...it is very encouraging. I will post updates in the hopes that it helps others...One last thing about the warning mentioned above...it truly has to be about the individual journey and not a plan to repair the relationship because otherwise it is not true development. This is one of the things X said to me when I suggested couples counselling. He mentioned that it makes NO sense to do this before each of us has worked on our issues...

I thought I would post another of the many readings I have done - About a month or so ago I asked regarding X:Are X and I making positive changes in our lives that will bring us back together?I got 45.4 changing to 8My own in interpretation is that this is positive...the 45.4 chimes in with what Equinox said about self work....I am asking myself if 45 points to the help I am seeking in the self-discovery process...

Thank you for your words, I am happy that I could help you a bit.

Mru_17 said:

You see, this was X's biggest criticism of me - that I act out of fear of loss.

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... it's not only that you have fears of loss, I guess. I think he has them as well.
Normally the fear of loss and the fear of intimacy are two sides of the same coin.
The one who clings predominantly feels the fear of loss, but subconciously feels the fear of intimacy as well. Vice versa, the one who refuses the connection feels the fear of intimacy on the surface, but subconciously also feels the fear of loss. That's not directly relating now to your I-ching-results, but the psychology behind push/pull relationships, as far as I know and experienced it. I don't want to label your relationship, but maybe you can think about if this applies to the dynamics between the two of you.

...most probably you are right. If there is anything I have learned it is that there are ALWAYS two sides to everything. I will have to mull over about how much of me fears intimacy as the other side of the coin. Have you ever heard of "das innere Team" from Schulz von Thun? Great exercise to discover the different pieces of our personality and which takes the wheel when we get in certain situations.As for my "collection of readings"...here's another: "What is the best course of action to have a chance with X?"....the result was 40...makes sense considering our discussion until now.I had done an early query when I was at my wit's end asking "What difference would it make if I called X to permanently break ties?" and I got 11.2 to 36 where I understood the 36 to mean...keep to the course and don't break things off permanently.

Another update: so I saw X again today. We work in the same company. I was with a co-worker and in a discussion and did not reply to his "hello". I felt bad about this...I did not want to give the impression that I was being mean. Thus I wrote a quick internal skype message saying that I indeed acknowledged him. He replied. After this, I inquired the following of the oracle:"What do I need to know about the result of having written X?" My answer was 39.3.5 changing to 2.

Hey Mru_17, I am back to this thread tonite evening or tomorrow.

Danke

equinox said:

Hey Mru_17, I am back to this thread tonite evening or tomorrow.

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Super...freu mich

Mru_17 said:

...most probably you are right. If there is anything I have learned it is that there are ALWAYS two sides to everything. I will have to mull over about how much of me fears intimacy as the other side of the coin.

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I find it quite logical: It's difficult allowing yourself being intimate with somebody if you have fears of loss, because if you were with them, then you actually really had something to lose. I don't know about this book you told me, but I will google it. Thank you.

Your results: I would now really refrain from being so fixated on him and his actions and your actions regarding him (for example to consider permanently breaking ties or not). The time is not right for radical external action, 11.2 confirms it.
As I wrote in context of 61.2<42 this is all not necessary and even contraproductive. Try to focus on your own healing the rest will follow.
61.2 is one of the most beautiful lines of the Yi by the way. Why not trusting in its message and try to understand it fully instead of asking further and further. To ask now many times about every little step you take here will only confuse you and make everything more difficult for you.

family constellation

61.2 is one of the most beautiful lines of the Yi by the way. Why not trusting in its message and try to understand it fully instead of asking further and further. To ask now many times about every little step you take here will only confuse you and make everything more difficult for you.[/QUOTE]Thank you Equinox...you are right. I would judge myself as being obsessive but that is because each time I queried, I was afraid.I did a Family constellation this weekend (Familienaufstellung). Do you know it? If not, look that up too. In essence you set up relationship systems between people with representatives to see how the dynamics work. The therapist did not set up my nuclear family (as I have done this before) rather did a "hidden constellation" (verdeckte Aufstellung) which was meant to identify certain ego states. Turns out that X was a part of the constellation...his representative definitely had "the feeling" that overly focusing on him was a no-go.All that said, I just wanted to mention again, that yes, I need to have trust and I'm working on it...I'm so grateful for what you have written...perhaps I may query what effect the family constellation could have but I'm not sure yet...in any case, I'll keep the thread updated.

So I queried the following and post it for anyone who maybe on a similar journey (Equninox, perhaps this is interesting for you):What is a likely outcome for me of the therapy seminar (referring to the family constellation Indid this weekend) and got 30.3 changing to 21... I think it’s pointi to endurance in the cultivation of myself...

An update

Hi Equinox and whomever else, I just wanted to say that I had interactions with X due to business reasons. I initiated contact because I need some business info from him. He replied kindly and wished me a nice evening to which I responded sincerely and politely. The communication was almost pleasant. I then queried:What is a likely outcome of having responded to X?I got Hexagram 35 unchanging. I read this as positive.