Hello again all you wonderful helpers. Referring to my previous post in which I sent an enquiry yesterday and which doesn't appear to have arrived. I am worried about my son and his situation. He was allowed home after his accident about 2 weeks ago and promptly caught flu. at one time was vomiting even water, then, according to his ""partner"" the only food he was having were two small bowls of cereal per day. I visited on Sunday when all he ate was a very small portion of fish, 4 chips and a spoonful of peas. He looked depressed and said he was very tired all the time. I have grave doubts about this so called ""partner". She has taken him out on the last three days - to two antique fairs and a garden centre. She says he has to keep sitting down !! She wont accept any help from me or his brother, I believe to keep me away from him. I think also that she is suspecting that he is sick of her. he has said one or two derogatory things about her to me and when she asks what was said he changes it immediately. Of course at the moment he is reliant on her. So, I asked 'Y' what best action I should take to help him to full recovery? 'Y' answered Hex. 43.2,5, > 55. Yesterday I asked 'Y' What do I need to know about the situation that he is in and received Hex. 30.6 >55 again. I have been wondering if I should get in contact with Social Services and feel that 'Y' is telling me "Yes" Also "What is my best plan of action" > H 31.6 > 33. He lives about 35 miles away so I can't just 'drop in' Some advice please, Thank you. Meigga

43 is about speaking up so although his partner seems to be excluding you I would not let that deter you from staying involved and expressing your concerns. If you feel the I Ching is telling you to get in contact with social services then I think you should at least call them up and see what they suggest and then decide if you need to go any further.

You cannot possibly go to social services about an adult man who is living with his partner through free choice.

What do you think social services could do about that !? They can't forcibly remove him from his home.

I'm baffled as to what you would imagine social services could possibly do ?

This is social services in the UK right ? No idea what 'social service' do in the US but they really couldn't do much about this in the UK as far as I can see because on what grounds ? An adult man's mother rings up and says she doesn't like how her son's partner is treating him. What do you think they could do about that ? I don't understand why you would think of going to social services ?

If your son is an adult in the world freely living with his partner and not held captive I cannot see why you would even think of phoning authorities about him.

If he doesn't want to go to a garden centre he can refuse to go !

He looked depressed and said he was very tired all the time. I have grave doubts about this so called ""partner". She has taken him out on the last three days - to two antique fairs and a garden centre. She says he has to keep sitting down !! She wont accept any help from me or his brother, I believe to keep me away from him. I think also that she is suspecting that he is sick of her. he has said one or two derogatory things about her to me and when she asks what was said he changes it immediately.

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The fact is your son has chosen to be with her. He talks to you about her behind her back but rather than that maybe he needs to decide, when he is well, what he wants to do about her. If he chooses to stay with her he ought not to say bad things about her behind her back.

Of course at the moment he is reliant on her. So, I asked 'Y' what best action I should take to help him to full recovery? 'Y' answered Hex. 43.2,5, > 55.

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The 55 makes me feel you have done all you can. The 43 shows you ready to take a stand of some kind although practically there is no stand you can really take other than being his mother. If you are medically concerned for him then I'm afraid it is not your place to go behind his back contacting authorities about this. That is up to him to decide.

Line 2 shows despite your alarm it's okay, not as bad as you think. I think line 5 shows an ongoing struggle to keep control of things and it costs such effort you might wonder if it's worth it.

Yesterday I asked 'Y' What do I need to know about the situation that he is in and received Hex. 30.6 >55 again.

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30.6 shows one dealing with the main issue, not getting distracted by side issues. 55 again showing something coming to a head. I guess you have to decide what is yours to deal with and what isn't.

I have been wondering if I should get in contact with Social Services and feel that 'Y' is telling me "Yes" Also "What is my best plan of action" > H 31.6 > 33. He lives about 35 miles away so I can't just 'drop in' Some advice please, Thank you. Meigga

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As I said above I really do not see what you would expect social services to do exactly ? You cannot ring up and say 'my son's partner is making him go out'.

Best plan of action ? Yi says at the moment you are full of ideas of what you might say etc etc but it can't really make much difference to anything.

I think you just have to focus on being his mum and doing what mum's do. Mum's do not take the liberty of phoning social services about their adult children who can think and speak for themselves. He is a free citizen, they can't go and arrest the girlfriend or forcibly remove him.

What is the idea, is it you think that he may get put back into hospital or a care place ? Well if he did he would have to agree to that so rather than phoning social services without his consent you ought to talk to him about what he wants.

Meigga,
You didn't post what hexagram you got that made you feel the I Ching was saying "Yes" when you asked if you should get in touch with Social Services, but it seems to me that you even if all they tell you is that the law can't help you it wouldn't hurt anything to talk to them and it might give you some peace of mind.
Rosada

how do you think getting in touch with social services would give her peace of mind ?

What do you think social services would do for her ?

Which department do you think she would go to ?

Law ? You think this is a matter of law ? What ?

Thank you Trojina you are very kind but at this present moment my son is not physically able to do what he wants to do. He has had a very severe fractured skull, some brain damage, Insertion of Pacemaker followed by flu all in the space of 8 weeks and is eating about one quarter of the amount of food that a toddler would eat.

Also, when he was discharged from hospital I was told that he would more than likely be offered some help at home. She has decided that no help is needed even though she will now have to go back to work. I think too that she is aware that their relationship is over but is determined to hang on.

In response to Trojina's questions:

How do you think getting in touch with Social Services would give Meigga peace of mind?
I think getting in touch with Social Services would give her peace of mind first of all because she feels the I Ching has advised her to do this. Therefore if she doesn't reach out to them she might continue to be wondering if she should. Even if they say they can't help her she will at least know that she didn't overlook some crucial step, she will know she has done everything she can think of to do.

What do you think social services would do for her?
I don't know what is offered where she lives but here in California there are various programs available that often go under utilized simply because people don't know about them. Like a visiting nurse. I see that meigga now mentions there was talk of him being offered help at home but the girlfriend/caregiver turned it down. There may be other services available. I have a friend who was injured and unable to work. Social services got her a stipend to cover her gas and electricity bill for 2 months. It doesn't hurt to ask...

Which department do you think she would go to?
I don't know what the names of the departments would be where she lives but as Meigga suggested it, she probably has some idea of who she is thinking of calling. If not she could call City Hall and explain what she is looking for and most likely someone could direct her to the right department.

Law? You think this is a matter of law? What?
I'm not totally clear what you are asking here. Perhaps if you use the word "government" in place of the word "law" my sentence will make more sense. I was referencing the fact that a grown man can not usually be legally required to see a doctor and also that there are laws that prevent hospitals from discussing a patient's condition without his consent - even when the person asking the questions is the mother. Thus speaking to social services about getting him help may not lead to much without his approval. If he is actually being abused by the girlfriend perhaps the law/government could step in and do something. We don't know and that's why I agreed calling social services could be a good idea if only to find out what the possibilities are.

I hope this helps.
Rosada

meigga said:

Thank you Trojina you are very kind but at this present moment my son is not physically able to do what he wants to do. He has had a very severe fractured skull, some brain damage, Insertion of Pacemaker followed by flu all in the space of 8 weeks and is eating about one quarter of the amount of food that a toddler would eat.

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meigga

Also, when he was discharged from hospital I was told that he would more than likely be offered some help at home. She has decided that no help is needed even though she will now have to go back to work. I think too that she is aware that their relationship is over but is determined to hang on.

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Ah it is making sense now. I was confused by the term 'social services'. Generally one would ring social services to report fears about abuse or neglect of children and some adults, the realm of the social worker, social issues not medical ones. Social services and the NHS overlap of course at times but you mean care at home, such as this

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support/

If so of course chase them up but probably through his GP or via the contact you have at the hospital ?

There remains his wishes in the matter. You said that he said derogatory things about her to you so I had the impression he was able to speak for himself. Of course if he isn't well enough to chase up care at home then you only have to get his permission if possible.

Although if he is in such a bad way you could contact the care team and voice your concerns anyway and they could find a reason to go take a look at him without him knowing why they came, I think.

So it's not a matter of law as it may be in contacting social services if one suspects child abuse or something like that, it's a matter of getting the right care for him at home.

rosada

In response to Trojina's questions:

How do you think getting in touch with Social Services would give Meigga peace of mind?
I think getting in touch with Social Services would give her peace of mind first of all because she feels the I Ching has advised her to do this. Therefore if she doesn't reach out to them she might continue to be wondering if she should. Even if they say they can't help her she will at least know that she didn't overlook some crucial step, she will know she has done everything she can think of to do.

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Yes as it turns out it isn't social services she would need to contact but social care services which must be what meigga meant. If someone here says they are going to contact social services about someone else it's largely to do with suspicions of abuse or possibly great poverty, neglect. If someone were calling social services about someone else it's quite a heavy thing to do because it's saying 'I don't think you are capable of caring for your kid so I am calling social services' and social services can remove kids from their homes etc etc.

What do you think social services would do for her?
I don't know what is offered where she lives but here in California there are various programs available that often go under utilized simply because people don't know about them. Like a visiting nurse. I see that meigga now mentions there was talk of him being offered help at home but the girlfriend/caregiver turned it down. There may be other services available. I have a friend who was injured and unable to work. Social services got her a stipend to cover her gas and electricity bill for 2 months. It doesn't hurt to ask...

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Yes, I see now, the confusion is in how the term 'social services' is being used. Social services here deal with social issues. You wouldn't call social services if you needed care at home although they might direct you to the correct number. You could however call the care team that the hospital gave referral for at the discharge, go via GP, allocated nurse etc etc. Social services here don't generally deal directly with claiming benefits and financial help for people who need it, that would be via the benefits system, getting the right forms and filling them out and sending them off to the DWP etc etc. Of course if someone is unable to fill out a form and has no one to help them help can be provided sometimes via a social worker if the person is already under the care of a social worker (which is a different thing to socialcare/help at home) or they can get help with the forms via the benefits system I think.

I'm no expert BTW but the confusion, my disbelief at calling 'social services' is that the term 'social services' here has a whole different connotation than social care.

Which department do you think she would go to?
I don't know what the names of the departments would be where she lives but as Meigga suggested it, she probably has some idea of who she is thinking of calling. If not she could call City Hall and explain what she is looking for and most likely someone could direct her to the right department

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.

City Hall ? I think that's a US thing...I'd think she would need to find any papers from the discharge with numbers on or go to his GP or call the last place he was discharged from. reason is he will already be 'in the system', all his notes will be with the NHS and a care plan would have to be designed with recourse to those notes.

Law? You think this is a matter of law? What?
I'm not totally clear what you are asking here. Perhaps if you use the word "government" in place of the word "law" my sentence will make more sense.

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This is the sentence I didn't understand

you asked if you should get in touch with Social Services, but it seems to me that you even if all they tell you is that the law can't help

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I wondered what on earth you meant by the the 'law can't help' as this isn't a matter of law since nothing illegal is occurring. The words 'law' and 'government' really do not mean the same thing in the UK.

I was referencing the fact that a grown man can not usually be legally required to see a doctor and also that there are laws that prevent hospitals from discussing a patient's condition without his consent - even when the person asking the questions is the mother. Thus speaking to social services about getting him help may not lead to much without his approval.

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Yes, exactly, I see what you mean now although for me the term 'social services' is a whole other thing. But yes if she is trying to get care at home for him and he won't or can't give permission and they judge that they do need his permission there's not much she can do. Obviously some people aren't capable of asking for help or giving permission die to brain damage etc etc. But I had the impression meigga's son, although very ill, still had his wits about him, perhaps he doesn't.

If he is actually being abused by the girlfriend perhaps the law/government could step in and do something. We don't know and that's why I agreed calling social services could be a good idea if only to find out what the possibilities are.

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If he was helpless, a vulnerable adult, and there was suspicion of abuse then certainly social services would be the right body to call. But as far as I can tell however much he complains about the woman he is with he still actually elects to stay with her.

Meigga says he doesn't choose. I can't say because I don't know how helpless he is or whether he would be classed as someone vulnerable to abuse. Certainly if Meigga thinks he is being abused then she must call social services.

I hope this helps.

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Yes it clears a lot of confusion up and I think the confusion is around the gulf between US/UK terminology of systems. Here saying "I am going to call social services about you" is often a threat, it's a way of saying 'I will have you investigated for abuse/neglect and have your kids taken away' etc etc. If in a neighbourhood one saw or heard a child being abused people would say 'someone ought to call social services about that'. So when meigga said she thought she would call social services I thought she meant she was going to report the woman, her son's partner and demand something to be done about it whereas of course if he is there by his own free will that would be absurd, hence my incredulity.

Thank you for explaining. I'm clearer about the whole situation now, what meigga meant and what you meant.

Phew.

Thank you Rosada. I called at Age Concern and they advised me to either ask my son if he is happy in the situation or ask my other son to do so, if he says he is not happy to request his permission to consult the head of the care team that she is employed by. I am never left alone with my son so will ask my other son. I wrote a message yesterday which doesn't appear to have got through. A number of my messages are not getting through either so I don't know what the problem is. I believe now that this so-called partner is aware that the relationship has run it's course and is determined to hang on, her financial situation would go down with a bang without him. God and the Angels will take care of the situation so I will leave it to them. Thank you again Rosada.