11.2 wine and sunsets - but forgetting our role...?

Tohpol · Jul 30, 2007

At the moment when I come to a line that has quite a few different and ambiguous meanings - a bit like 17.6 - then I throw it open.

How do folks see 11.2?

I'm seeing it as keeping your centre, a kind of treading of the middle ground and being somewhat detached.

Brad has it down - I think - as being true to yourself and even shunning friends if it needs to happen. It's nothing personal but in order to keep travelling one's own path you gotta travel light and also hide the light as in the transitional 36.

Wilhelm seems to say we have what we need materially, things are clam but perhaps we are with people that are not so like-minded. Nevetheless, we must still do our duty pay attention to details and make sure the median is always in our sights.

Or, perhaps we could say to ward off laziness and lack of attention to duty in times of peace we must be prepared to stand alone and take opportunties as they present themselves - have initiative?

36.2 suggests that there has been a spiritual wounding but it's not terminal - you can still find ways to contribute a bit of what your light has to offer.

Any thoughts on this one? Any experiences with this line?

Topal

mudpie · Jul 31, 2007

This line was part of the reading for the man asking about leaving behind the pull/trappings of modern culture and since that thread, I have been considering this line as the one of transition. If you want to cross the river, you need to keep your eye on the goal, and hang on to a hollow gourd ( is this a life jacket? or maybe just a strong vision which keeps one afloat and steadied).

in any meaningful transition from one place of being to another, the thngs most likely to hold one back are the people who you once connected with and who, most likely, won't want you to change. you have to move beyond them, even if it means being ruthlessly determined. steadfastly determined.

and 36 is a wonderful adjunct...since in the time when the new has not fully come yet, it is best to keep your plans/vision to yourself. once again, well-meaning "buddies" can try to get you to re-think, to stay awhile back on the edge of the river, tell you you're being foolish. If one is alert to this danger and remains detrmined to leave the old- the wasteland - behind , he can be successful.

Tohpol · Jul 31, 2007

listener said:
This line was part of the reading for the man asking about leaving behind the pull/trappings of modern culture and since that thread, I have been considering this line as the one of transition. If you want to cross the river, you need to keep your eye on the goal, and hang on to a hollow gourd ( is this a life jacket? or maybe just a strong vision which keeps one afloat and steadied).

in any meaningful transition from one place of being to another, the thngs most likely to hold one back are the people who you once connected with and who, most likely, won't want you to change. you have to move beyond them, even if it means being ruthlessly determined. steadfastly determined.

and 36 is a wonderful adjunct...since in the time when the new has not fully come yet, it is best to keep your plans/vision to yourself. once again, well-meaning "buddies" can try to get you to re-think, to stay awhile back on the edge of the river, tell you you're being foolish. If one is alert to this danger and remains detrmined to leave the old- the wasteland - behind , he can be successful.

Ahhh yes, I think I remember the guy.

So, transition period - yes that would make a lot of sense taken with the other elements. Being true to oneself under all circumstances also. Keeping the light on the horizon clearly in your vision while traversing the river. Meantime, you hide your own light under the life jacket.

Hmm. Ok, thanks for that.

Topal

Grandma · Feb 16, 2010

I just got this reading this morning, asking about whether I should go to class as there was a bit of snow.
I went and the roads were pretty good, I was cautious. So I thought that was as far as it went.
In class we were talking about Irish myth, Cuchulain (sun king according to Robert Graves) and On Baile's Strand by Yeats.
I tried to mention a few of my ideas like that it seemed like fate was involved in Cuchulain killing his son (curse from Aoife the child's mother) and I also referenced this action as reminiscent of Medea (she kills her children to get back at Jason). I felt the teacher blew me off and said literature is full of woman devouring their young (not my point) and then when someone else in the class mentioned that the murder had to happen the teacher kept quoting him and steered away from saying fate. also at the end of Medea the important thing is that she takes the boys corpses away in the sun god's chariot(her father? or grandfather). I think there is a connection between the two myths and is a story of immortality for the murdered sons and actually a death for the father.
So I was upset my ideas were blown off and I was going to do a reading on it and then I remembered this reading and I think it talks about what happened. My friends are not there with me in the realm of ideas but I should not form a faction and I should not let my light go out but be aware of what went on and not be duped.
I think that the interpretation given by Topal and Listener convey what I just experienced.
Interesting example of multi pronged meaning.
does anyone have any ideas on this?

fkegan · Feb 16, 2010

Hi Susan,

You do not mention what class or what subject this was. However, Aristotle set forth the notion that tragedy is all about the interaction of fate and character. That your did not wish to consider "fate" in class would seem to indicate something about what he wants and what he avoids. That the reply was that "literature is full of woman devouring their young" just seems peculiar.Wouldn't such a universal theme raise the issue of "why?" rather than this is too---what? common? to notice. Teachers, at least too often, react badly to perfectly good comments just because they aren't what they have scheduled to discuss at that point.

Returning to hex 11.2 >>36. The second Yang line is in relationship to the Yin ruler in the fifth place and strong enough to put up with its two other Yang fellow travelers put not join them except to be their good neighbor. When the line changes the situation becomes quite different. However, still speaks of the need to rely upon yourself and not take external circumstance and unfavorable people too much to heart--just carry on toward your eventual goal and better relationship originally involved.

Frank

Grandma · Feb 16, 2010

the class is Irish Literature
yes, teachers do follow their class agenda and the points they want to raise and don't like to go off it.
But I think I was raising important themes and the rest of the class got to where I was going by the end of class, at which time I had stopped making my comments.
But was I in the wrong?
Or should I continue on with my views (in a paper perhaps) and not worry that the teacher is not into my comments? She did start talking about how it "had to happen" and how that is different from fate I don't know.
What else should I do here? in relation to 11.2-36
Thank you for your comments

Trojina · Feb 16, 2010

I associate 11.2 with having to go your own way and feeling somewhat alone...but maybe the venerable Topal might return and tell us if he has changed his thoughts about 11.2 since he started this thread over 2 years ago.

Susan i always find that each time someone blows me off in public, dismissing my views etc i find they themselves come back with these very same views some time later...!!! and make out it was their idea :rant:

You probably just went beyond the scope of the teachers current thinking and she couldn't catch up with you. I think 11.2 reflects that..no fun but you are the voyager here and it may be a lonley journey. I agree with your interpretation of the reading you did this morning..it does seem to fit well with the feel of 11.2. Boldly going where no student has gone before !

re what you actually do...well do you depend on getting good marks from her is the bottom line..is it crucial you please her.?.if it is thats the 36 isn't it, hiding your true light to keep it burning...but I have the feeling 11.2 carries on their voyage regardless..approval or no approval

fkegan · Feb 16, 2010

Hi Susan,

I would suggest seeing your teacher during office hours, outside of class before following your notion of writing a paper upon fate in Irish Literature. The term "fate" has many difficult associations especially for the Irish and their literature. I had a dear friend in college (over several decades just like his father) who was a textbook example of the alcoholic Irish. Eventually (after several more years) he learned through therapy his issues were the result of child sexual abuse in his history. Now we are seeing the Irish Church wrestling finally with these problems.

When a class ends up with all discussing the clear theme of fated behavior in myth or literature but avoiding any and all mention of that word, there probably is an issue with the emotional baggage piled upon the notion of fate. Often better to choose a synonym than fight your teachers demons.

In terms of hex 11.2 the point of this Oracle is that the second line in a central though not commanding position has an important relationship with a gentle person (or ideal) in an august position that makes all the hassles with current companions worthwhile. I would suggest turning your attention to what is this relationship about for you and how does it transcend your Irish Lit class discussion.

Remember your comments began with a question about cutting class since it was snowy but the streets turned out to be OK though the teacher not so much. This Oracle highlights lifting one's eyes to higher ground and then keeping your eyes on the prize whatever that is for you, allowing you to transcend obstacles along the way.

Frank

Grandma · Feb 17, 2010

Thank you Trojan.
I'm going to reflect on this line some more and the advice from the ic.
I feel the teacher does suffer a little from tunnel vision. she might know alot about Irish lit but can't tie it in with any other subjects.
I am not going to right about fate, but I am going to write about this play and immortality. I think anyway. Before today I was going to write about James Joyce but now I want to tackle this subject.
Thanks, I have to think about this some more.

Grandma · Feb 17, 2010

You know Trojan I don't have that experience with people dismissing my views and then claiming then later but in class the whole discussion got down to what I had been saying 30 minutes earlier. And then it was going toward the idea I had about immortality as shown in Medea, I don't think she knows her ancient Greek drama which is so dumb since she is teaching a class on the Abbey Theatre and the Athenians ran the first state theatre, hello.
I have to look at what this advice really is for me like you suggest Frank.
I think the ideal for me is finding out the truth of my opinions about the piece of literature in question and to see if they can hold up to scrutiny in a formal paper.

fkegan · Feb 17, 2010

Hi Susan,

The more you explore your views probably the better. It may also be important to not let your doubts about your teacher creep into your classwork. In general it takes a while for a class discussion to wend its way into the deeper reaches of the topic at hand. And coming to a theme for a major paper can take even more time and effort.

I remember one teacher of mine making a paper airplane of my term paper and throwing it at me as I made my presentation since we had been instructed to frame our paper in terms of a question and after my research I came to the conclusion the answer to the question was NO.

Frank

Grandma · Feb 17, 2010

I am feeling very brightness tarnished today about it, but the counsel of the line was to be gentle so I guess I shouldn't get alienated even tho I feel that way.

I'm not sure what the line is saying anymore, don't form a faction but go on your own way? Maybe giving up my own ideas is forming a faction with the others away from my own interpretations?

Tohpol · Feb 19, 2010

susan said:
You know Trojan I don't have that experience with people dismissing my views and then claiming then later but in class the whole discussion got down to what I had been saying 30 minutes earlier. And then it was going toward the idea I had about immortality as shown in Medea, I don't think she knows her ancient Greek drama which is so dumb since she is teaching a class on the Abbey Theatre and the Athenians ran the first state theatre, hello.
I have to look at what this advice really is for me like you suggest Frank.
I think the ideal for me is finding out the truth of my opinions about the piece of literature in question and to see if they can hold up to scrutiny in a formal paper.

Hi Susan,

Good luck with that. I can't really add much more to what's been said other than 11.2 has proved to be, well, just that: a peaceful line reinforcing your essential connection to what real and true, the deep, still part of yourself that can help you ride through the peaks and troughs. Making the choice to hide your light and not identify too much with the "slings and arrows" that inevitably come along. For me, it was reiterating what I laready knew: peace while being buffeted: "Look, you know it isn't so bad really - on you go and don't forget what is truly important." I think it turned out to be true at that period of my life where I was "alone" but in fact it was necessary period of peace - being in the world but not of it that proved very nourishing in the end.

Best,

Topal

meng · Feb 19, 2010

susan said:
I am feeling very brightness tarnished today about it, but the counsel of the line was to be gentle so I guess I shouldn't get alienated even tho I feel that way.

Perhaps like well earned patina? The kind where people aren't afraid to hold onto it, where their acidic touch etches into the brightness, obscuring and enhancing, where eyes see into it, not only reflect off it, where it disperses the sun's brightness, rather than shine itself.

meng · Feb 20, 2010

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Grandma · Feb 23, 2010

I found out something about Yeats last week which would cause me to not want to focus on him for a class essay, so the 36 comes in there again.
All in all the line is rather gentle after the initial shock and keeping things to myself and listening to others is part of this line, I think.

peterg · Feb 25, 2010

11.2.3 - 24

I got this cast twice for house sharing people going on a short 7 day trip overseas. Free course for me. Temporary peace as partners disappear.
Crossing the channel is an expression we use for crossing the Irish sea.

The second time 44.2.5 - 56 was around also, which I cast incidentally using a pair of dice. Couple go on a trip ?
There was an ongoing litigation against me for damages costs & possession of a property. 44.2 : I was all right fish wise ( damages costs ) but I lost the possession ( guesting ) although I moved to a really lovely place which might have been a gift of fate, like something that fell out of heaven.
pg

Dsouza · Aug 16, 2018

After reading your comments on 11.2, to me it seems like this.check out picture...Thanks !!

11.2 wine and sunsets - but forgetting our role...?

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