I'm just trying to get my head around gender fluidity and that whole idea of what people identify as etc etc and then I find there are people who believe they are animals living in a human body


[video=youtube_share;sOSpa87selw]https://youtu.be/sOSpa87selw?t=12[/video]


I think the thin faced guy does look like a wolf to be fair. And I think there is something leopard like about the other guy.


What do you think ?

Er...no other species worries about things like this? There are unique torments visited upon humans, for...some reason?

Well, what can one say? That is so bizarre I couldn't keep watcing it. I mean, I love dogs and other animals, but I'm still a guy - I guess that makes me a he/him in gender equity parlance.

Funny side story about that: last year I was at a workshop where we were asked to put our names on our name tags, but also our 'gender' preference, such as he/him, she/her, they/them. I wrote "guy" on mine. They also made the mens' and womens' bathrooms non-sex and non-gender specific. While I was waiting in line to go into the mens' room three women about my age (50s-60s) came out, muttered something about how they thought that because the mens' room could be used by anyone, that someone would have removed the urinals! And while I was in there at the urinal, a younger 20-something gal came in and asked us if we were okay if she was in there too. I said if you're okay with us at the urinal we're okay with you being here!

But I guess my main question is, are these animals-in-human's-clothing house-trained? I sort of doubt it.

Despite all their claims to animal-hood, they seem like a pretty neurotic bunch of Homo sapiens to me:

Caleb has a preference for which tail he likes because it's more 'manageable' and he likes the color? And animals that broadcast their own radio show? And they all have 'animal-spirit' names that sound like they came out of 'Shrek' or The Lion King'? And I'm pretty darn sure they are all texting each other about their various animal exploits! I wonder too, does Caleb and the others piss in the corners of all the rooms in the house to mark their territory? (And Caleb's shaman mom, does she consult the I Ching as well?)

I rented a room a long time ago from a mom with two sons. Her younger one would claim to be a dog (I think that's what it was), usually when he was trying to get out of his chores.

Call me hard-hearted, but if they want to be animals, then I think they should go all the way: it's 24 F (-4C) tonight in Buffalo NY, dropping into the teens (-8C) over the weekend. Their families should give them all a biscuit and then kick them out into the wild (with just their 'natural' fur) to fend for themselves for a few days.

I'm sure too that if some Trump supporter in Indiana were to see this they would shake their (he/him/she/her/them/they/it) head in disgust. And sorry to say, I don't feel all that differently actually.

Best,
David (he/him) "Simba" Freed

Liselle said:

Er...no other species worries about things like this? There are unique torments visited upon humans, for...some reason?

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You can't be sure Liselle, for example possibly your cats think they are human but they can't tell you that they just act like it. Imagine being a human in a cat's body

Well, what can one say? That is so bizarre I couldn't keep watcing it. I mean, I love dogs and other animals, but I'm still a guy - I guess that makes me a he/him in gender equity parlance.

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I've completely lost track with all that.

Funny side story about that: last year I was at a workshop where we were asked to put our names on our name tags, but also our 'gender' preference, such as he/him, she/her, they/them. I wrote "guy" on mine. They also made the mens' and womens' bathrooms non-sex and non-gender specific. While I was waiting in line to go into the mens' room three women about my age (50s-60s) came out, muttered something about how they thought that because the mens' room could be used by anyone, that someone would have removed the urinals! And while I was in there at the urinal, a younger 20-something gal came in and asked us if we were okay if she was in there too. I said if you're okay with us at the urinal we're okay with you being here!

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That's ridiculous. I don't want to use the same public toilets as men it's embarrassing.

But I guess my main question is, are these animals-in-human's-clothing house-trained? I sort of doubt it.

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Despite all their claims to animal-hood, they seem like a pretty neurotic bunch of Homo sapiens to me:

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Yes - and interestingly they mostly have hippieish 'do what you want ' parents. So Caleb I think has been bought up by a mother who says she is a 'shaman' so this means even as a child he would have been familiar with the concept of spirit animals and such. So this doesn't really come out of nowhere.


I wondered if it was a spoof because their animal costumes were silly cartoon outfits ? I don't think it is a spoof though not entirely sure. If you wanted to look like an animal you wouldn't use huge silly costumes like that surely.

Caleb has a preference for which tail he likes because it's more 'manageable' and he likes the color?

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Yes and how does he attach it to his backside. I was wondering if he stuck the end of the tail between his cheeks and had a hole cut through his jeans and underpants to let the tail out.

And animals that broadcast their own radio show? And they all have 'animal-spirit' names that sound like they came out of 'Shrek' or The Lion King'? And I'm pretty darn sure they are all texting each other about their various animal exploits! I wonder too, does Caleb and the others piss in the corners of all the rooms in the house to mark their territory? (And Caleb's shaman mom, does she consult the I Ching as well?)

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stop it it is noteworthy that they are all more the exotic and 'noble' animals. ~There isn't one that used to be a pig for example. However they did say some people claim to have been inseccts.


Joking aside I don't 100% dismiss it since I have an open mind on reincarnation. So supposing we and all creatures are constantly evolving which we are then possibly we will have spent lives as animals and the most recent lives will have been 'higher' animals. Tohpol I think once posted a video of a woman mind reading a panther and this panther was highly conscious. Will look for that just out of my own interest.


Also it seems to me our relationship with animals is changing quickly due to veganism and other things. Supposing more animal souls are evolving into humans ?

I rented a room a long time ago from a mom with two sons. Her younger one would claim to be a dog (I think that's what it was), usually when he was trying to get out of his chores.

Call me hard-hearted, but if they want to be animals, then I think they should go all the way: it's 24 F (-4C) tonight in Buffalo NY, dropping into the teens (-8C) over the weekend. Their families should give them all a biscuit and then kick them out into the wild (with just their 'natural' fur) to fend for themselves for a few days.

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quite but as they have parents calling themselves 'shaman' then no doubt they will excessively 'respect their identity choices' and put a nice clean duvet cover on their beds....

I'm sure too that if some Trump supporter in Indiana were to see this they would shake their (he/him/she/her/them/they/it) head in disgust. And sorry to say, I don't feel all that differently actually.

Best,
David (he/him) "Simba" Freed

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Hi Simba

Trojina said:

You can't be sure Liselle, for example possibly your cats think they are human but they can't tell you that they just act like it. Imagine being a human in a cat's body

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Oh dear. As best I can tell they act like cats who (mostly) are fond of their human (when they're not mad at her for, say, trying to clean their teeth).

Trojina said:

That's ridiculous. I don't want to use the same public toilets as men it's embarrassing.

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Agreed.

Yes - and interestingly they mostly have hippieish 'do what you want ' parents.

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I was thinking that! (Frankly I was very not sure what is / is not okay to say, even in Open Space.) Yes, this smacks of way too much permissiveness etc. (Note: I watched approx. 3 seconds of the video, is all.)

Joking aside I don't 100% dismiss it since I have an open mind on reincarnation.

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Good point, and maybe if one's life as an animal was recent, there might be lingering memories of it. Or maybe not memories per se but vague impressionistic something.

But really, Trojina, stay out of the back alleys of YouTube, which are apparently like the back alleys of anywhere (not that I would know, of course )

What would be interesting, though, and more informative and helpful, would be to ask Yi about it. Trojina, since you started this?

Simba here -

Trojina said:

That's ridiculous. I don't want to use the same public toilets as men it's embarrassing.

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Agreed, often, even I don't want to use these, and I'm a guy!

Trojina said:

Yes - and interestingly they mostly have hippieish 'do what you want ' parents.

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Somewhat true, but I know quite a few 'hippie' parents who have raised solid, functioning 'human' children.

Trojina said:

stop it it is noteworthy that they are all more the exotic and 'noble' animals. ~ There isn't one that used to be a pig for example ...

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I chalk it up to a generation raised on social media, the internet, "Twilight" and "The Lion King."

Also, I watched another video where a young woman (or she-animal) explained about being a 'therian' and every third sentence was something like, "... and I don't care what you think," or "... if you don't like it, too bad," which spoke volumes to me about what this is really all about. I grew my hair long, listened to rock music and smoked pot to rebel; they are deciding to become animals.

Trojina said:

Joking aside I don't 100% dismiss it since I have an open mind on reincarnation.

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I do not dismiss this at all, but only when it's real. Animals and animal-human transformation and interactions have been a part of different cultures for thousands of years.

For example, from the First Nations tribe, the Haida - whose homeland is southern Alaska and Haida Gwaii, formerly the Queen Charlotte Islands off the west coast of BC.


And this sculpture by the late Bill Reid, famous Haida artist:

Spirit of Haida Gwaii, the Black Canoe, sculpture by Bill Reid in bronze, outside the Canadian Embassy in Washington DC (there is also a "jade" version at the Vancouver BC airport.

Freedda said:

Also, I watched another video where a young woman (or she-animal) explained about being a 'therian' and every third sentence was something like, "... and I don't care what you think," or "... if you don't like it, too bad," which spoke volumes to me about what this is really all about. I grew my hair long, listened to rock music and smoked pot to rebel; they are deciding to become animals.

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This is a very good point.

I chalk it up to a generation raised on social media, the internet, "Twilight" and "The Lion King."

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Plus aren't there various "transforming" toys/cartoons/whatever, like, say, "The Transformers"?

I wonder if generational astrology would shed light on this, e.g. if many of these animal-people have Pluto in Scorpio or something. (Scorpio being transformative, isn't it?) Or not, I don't know.

I'd wonder which causes what, the toys cause the ideas or the ideas cause the toys, except it's a generation or two before who are making the toys, so where does it come from in the grown-ups?

...
...
...
...

Something I once meant to look into and never did - have we been in a period (going back decades, but maybe still "a period") where Neptune in a sign is followed by Pluto in the same sign, not long after and certainly within a lifetime? How common is that in human history? (Rhetorical question.)

E.g. my parents have Neptune in Virgo, and I have Pluto in Virgo. I have Neptune in Scorpio, and during some of what would have been child-rearing years for people my age, Pluto was in Scorpio? So...

- the transit affects people to make things for the applicable children, maybe more than it would have if the sign wasn't repetitive?
- just the fact of parents and children sharing a (different) outer planet in the same sign?

Trojina said:

What do you think ?

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I think people are often nuts.
Much more so than we usually recognize, or care to admit to ourselves. (I believe worldwide estimates are 1 in 10 have managable mental illness (anxiety, depression, etc) and another 1 in 10 have serious issues (psychopaths, sociopaths,etc)
That is 1 in 5, folks.

Some people like to be the center of attention, and saying, "I'm a cat!"
or "I reject your labels" this gets them lots of attention and a platform to talk about their favorite things:
themselves and their obsessions.

As far as gender identity?
Solution:
Allow people to consentually love and couple with who they wish.
Make all public bathrooms unisex, lockable and single occupancy.
No more problem.

.

But really, Trojina, stay out of the back alleys of YouTube, which are apparently like the back alleys of anywhere (not that I would know, of course

)

What would be interesting, though, and more informative and helpful, would be to ask Yi about it. Trojina, since you started this?

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I don't think I want to ask Yi, don't feel the need I just felt like sharing the video and thought people might share their own weird youtube videos although you are right we could end up down some very dark alleys. I love watching youtube I watch tons of youtube I am a youtube junkie but I often watch quite silly things. Correction really silly things but for me that's my mental relaxation.

This particular video is part of a fairly respectable series called erm ...have to check ah yes it's called 'Only Human' and seems to cover some quite extreme mental states.


Oh also we know our own dear leader has admitted she is a Labrador and I think that's genuine.

And I will meow and purr to my cats (god knows what if anything I'm saying to them - I should probably hope it's utter gibberish )

Simba here -

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Hi Simba, Tigger here, actually I had a boyfriend once who called me that.

Somewhat true, but I know quite a few 'hippie' parents who have raised solid, functioning 'human' children.

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Oh yes for sure I was over generalising .

I mean it's not too surprising if your mum is a shaman to sort of take it one step further to confound her - quite clever actually like he's playing her at her own game.

I chalk it up to a generation raised on social media, the internet, "Twilight" and "The Lion King."

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I've never seen either of those I was raised on Jungle Book I had the album, I can still sing the Bear Necessities forget about your worries and your strife yeah man I mean those simple bear necessities of life....

Also, I watched another video where a young woman (or she-animal) explained about being a 'therian' and every third sentence was something like, "... and I don't care what you think," or "... if you don't like it, too bad," which spoke volumes to me about what this is really all about. I grew my hair long, listened to rock music and smoked pot to rebel; they are deciding to become animals.

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Yes though they didn't strike me a rebellious.

I do not dismiss this at all, but only when it's real. Animals and animal-human transformation and interactions have been a part of different cultures for thousands of years.

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Yes and I also believe our whole connection to animals is changing as part of our physical and spiritual evolution. We are only mammals not so far away from animal consciousness and they not so far from ours. I didn't wholly disbelieve the boy when he spoke of his memories as a panther.

For example, from the First Nations tribe, the Haida - whose homeland is southern Alaska and Haida Gwaii, formerly the Queen Charlotte Islands off the west coast of BC.

The mythology of the Haida, like that of other tribes on the central and northern coast, is based on the epic cycle of stories about the Raven and his various exploits. The Raven is truly a trickster who liberates humankind from a clamshell, then in one story sets the universe in order, only to threaten it with chaos in the next. The Raven is the most greedy, mischievous and lecherous creature imaginable, but almost without meaning to, teaches humans the arts of living a good life.

Most Haida objects are decorated with crests - figures of animals, birds, sea creatures and mythic beings - that immediately identify the moiety [i.e clans] (Raven or Eagle) and often the lineage of the owner. On a more subtle level the placement of a crest figure, and especially the smaller figures attached to its ears, chest or mouth, refer to a specific myth involving that crest.​

And this sculpture by the late Bill Reid, famous Haida artist:
View attachment 2016
Spirit of Haida Gwaii, the Black Canoe, sculpture by Bill Reid in bronze, outside the Canadian Embassy in Washington DC (there is also a "jade" version at the Vancouver BC airport.

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Yes and oh ravens and crows I started a thread on those once must find it

Some people like to be the center of attention, and saying, "I'm a cat!"
or "I reject your labels" this gets them lots of attention and a platform to talk about their favorite things:
themselves and their obsessions.

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Yes but I just didn't get the impression those boys were attention seekers somehow. They seemed quite low key really. The wolf couple in the UK if you got that far seemed more attention seeking.

Trojina said:

Hi Simba, Tigger here, ... I've never seen either of those I was raised on Jungle Book I had the album, I can still sing the Bear Necessities forget about your worries and your strife yeah man I mean those simple bear necessities of life....

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And all I have to say to that is ...

Ooh-bi-doo, I wan'na be like you
I want to walk like you, talk like you, too
You see it's true, an ape like me
Can learn to be like you, too ...

... I grew up on Johnny Quest, Rocky and Bullwinkle, Tooter Turtle (and Mr. Wizard), Lost in Space, and a host of others; and at various times I wanted to be and played at being an astronaut/space adventurer, viking, undersea explorer, black bluesman, and a few other things - sometimes mixing them together (viking astronaut? undersea space explorer - well maybe), but I didn't then really believe that I was a viking or space explorer.

I suspect that for some there is a very serious escapist aspect to this: "if I could just become something, anything other than myself - or be in any other life or body than mine - then my life would be okay." That is a wholly human reaction, and perhaps understandable in some cases, but it don't make it so.

Trojina said:

Yes though they didn't strike me a rebellious.

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It sure sounded that way to me (and it was a different video).

Trojina said:

Yes and I also believe our whole connection to animals is changing as part of our physical and spiritual evolution.

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Well, I just don't know. In the Buddhist tradition being born in a human body - possibly after countless lifetimes wandering as other types of beings - is considered a precious gift, even more so than being a deva (akin to angels) or a god.

I certainly see that our 'connections' are changing, in that we can begin to see our place as being 'with' and not 'above' other species (in the same way that no race is above another), but I do not think it includes 'morphing' into another creature. Even in anamist traditions where shamans can take on or become the spirits of animals, they don't permanently become animals, and always return to their human form - and they certainly don't get to pick their tails based on a personal preference!


Best, D.

Ooh-bi-doo, I wan'na be like you
I want to walk like you, talk like you, too
You see it's true, an ape like me
Can learn to be like you, too ...

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ooh bi doo


...

I grew up on Johnny Quest, Rocky and Bullwinkle, Tooter Turtle (and Mr. Wizard), Lost in Space, and a host of others; and at various times I wanted to be and played at being an astronaut/space adventurer, viking, undersea explorer, black bluesman, and a few other things - sometimes mixing them together (viking astronaut? undersea space explorer - well maybe), but I didn't then really believe that I was a viking or space explorer.

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Same generation different country so don't recognize any of these, think I was only ever a princess in a table cloth.

I suspect that for some there is a very serious escapist aspect to this: "if I could just become something, anything other than myself - or be in any other life or body than mine - then my life would be okay." That is a wholly human reaction, and perhaps understandable in some cases, but it don't make it so.

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Yes I think perhaps a majority of things like this are escapism but I have seen plenty of documentaries on kids who recall past lives to the extent they go back to the village they lived in in their last life and recognize their own wife and so on.


If someone I met said to me they could remember being an animal I wouldn't find it so far fetched in that if reincarnation exists then why wouldn't one remember now and then.



But of course these people in video aren't just remembering but trying to relive their alleged past and I don't think the idea is one should try to go back to who one was before.
They aren't just remembering but trying to incorporate their animal selves into current life as an identity thing.

Well, I just don't know. In the Buddhist tradition being born in a human body - possibly after countless lifetimes wandering as other types of beings - is considered a precious gift, even more so than being a deva (akin to angels) or a god.

I certainly see that our 'connections' are changing, in that we can begin to see our place as being 'with' and not 'above' other species (in the same way that no race is above another), but I do not think it includes 'morphing' into another creature. Even in anamist traditions where shamans can take on or become the spirits of animals, they don't permanently become animals, and always return to their human form - and they certainly don't get to pick their tails based on a personal preference!

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Quite.

Trojina said:

ooh bi doo

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Yes, and I suppose if we were growing up now it would be ...

Hakuna matata! What a wonderful phrase!
Hakuna matata! Ain't no passing craze!
It means no worries, for the rest of your days...

... or some such thing.

Trojina said:

Yes I think perhaps a majority of things like this are escapism but I have seen plenty of documentaries on kids who recall past lives ... and recognize their own wife and so on .... If someone I met said to me they could remember being an animal I wouldn't find it so far fetched in that if reincarnation exists then why wouldn't one remember now and then ... But of course these people in video aren't just remembering but trying to relive their alleged past and I don't think the idea is one should try to go back to who one was before ... They aren't just remembering but trying to incorporate their animal selves into current life as an identity thing.

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I don't disagree on any particular point. It's only that I believe that it happens far, far, less than people think, or would have us believe. I believe that if a whole general of young people had never seen "Twilight" or read about past lives or animal spirits, that we'd hardly ever see this happening.

I grew up in Northern California at the tail end of the hippie era and people were making all kinds of claims then (I even had a guru for a while, starting in my late teens). Most of it was BS. And a lot of it was about greed and control and simple rebellion.

On the other hand, it's supposed to snow tomorrow and again on Monday, with forecasts saying we might get the most snow we've had since 1990. We are not used to it here, and not really prepared to deal with it - so it's a big deal. But I did tell one of my co-workers that it would sure be a good time to put on my wolf coat and have a well-maintained wolf tail to keep me company while I'm snowed in at my home!

Best, David. :bows: