Hi all,
as some of you already know I`m dealing with an ancient and well guarded divination technique called Wen Wang Gua since while.

I will write an explanation thread about this theme, when I will find the time for it, so that you all can follow the topic soon. But for the moment I am most interested into a few but very important questions concerning the rules of Wen Wang Gua so this thread is for those who knows already the rules or at least parts of it and could help to find out all original rules.

There seem to be differences concerning the rules of Wen Wang Gua. Jack Chiu (author: The Secret Of Wen Wang Gua) often use the phrase "it is said that..", "some Wen Wang Gua practioners think...", "it is written..." and so on. Alex Chiu (superiching.com) also uses a lot of rules and it is not for sure that they are all original. Some shall be invented from himself and so I will try to find out here (by time) all original rules of Wen Wang Gua and I start giving my input with the rules which are sure for me.

1. Bound and Strike called by Alex Chiu is existing (of course) and it is called conjunction and opposition at the book of Jack Chiu.

2. "The Day Branch is the Master of the six lines" is written at "The Gold Yarrows" the ancient rule book of Wen Wang Gua and Alex Chiu says the same. Jack Chiu used this quote at his book so we can assume this is also correct.

3. Element Combinations (Water, Fire, Earth, Wood combinations) also exist. Alex Chiu called them Element Combos and Jack Chiu calls them Trine.

4. Struck loose called by Alex Chiu is also original. Jack Chiu calls it the aggressive inactive caused by opposition if a quiet line is struck by the date and "be shackled" if an active line is canceled out by conjunction with the day branch.

5. "An inactive line will become somewhat active when it is in conjunction with the day branch" is written at Jack Chiu`s book and Alex Chui says the same so we also can feel secure in this point.

6. Advance and Retreat: Is described at Jack Chiu`s book and Alex Chiu also talked a lot about it. Jack Chui said that Advancing means double force/strength and Retreating means only half force/strength. This is very important and that is why I mention here.

7. The concept of empty dates is also real and makes sense if one thinks about that there are only 10 heavenly stems but 12 earthly branches. Alex Chiu calls them empty dates and the line with the empty element is called empty. Jack Chiu calls it neutralized line.

8. "Kills back at itself" called by Alex Chiu is also original and Jack Chiu calls it "Returning Devitalization". But this is only possible at an active (moving) line. I guess this was not entirely clear at the material of Alex Chiu at least I first understood after I read the book of Jack Chiu.

9. "Double Appointed" by Alex Chiu is not described at the book of Jack Chiu but the words about it from Alex Chiu makes sense for me. So: If someone knows definitely, please help.

10. "Six Strike and Six Match" by Alex Chiu is also not described at the book of Jack Chiu but it seems to be original because Long Yi used "Six Conflict" as the name for a certain hexagram so I suppose this is also original.

11. "Links" called by Alex Chiu are also not mentioned at the book of Jack Chiu and so this is a huge puzzle for me still. I don`t understand this link philosophy, but maybe I am just to stupid,lol. I will go on reading and hopefully understand soon.

12. Relationship among the Five Relatives called by Jack Chiu and called 5 Stars by Alex Chiu is the same and described as the same by both authors.

13. 6 Celestial Figures called by Jack Chiu is completely missing at the material of Alex Chiu but it is part of original Wen Wang Gua. At the book of Jack Chiu you will find a table where you can find out how to mount the Six Celestial Figures to the lines. They gives you additional insights.

14. Rules concerning the hidden element: Seems to be identic too at the material of Alex Chiu and Jack Chiu but I have to prove this entirely.

15. "Traps" by Alex Chiu I first have to prove this before saying something about it.

16. "Gua strikes back" by Alex Chiu. I haven`t read this chapter until now, but Jack Chiu doesn`t meantion it.

This is not the complete list, but a beginning. I first wrote down the basic rules. There are a lot of certain rules for certain scenarios in addition so this here is just a trial to begin the topic here, at least.

I will edit (and complete) this from time to time and I will also post the original chinese names for all, but not today. I`m pretty busy with moving into another flat and so you have to be patiently with me at the moment.

This is just for starting the discussion and the exchange of knowledge and experiances.

Best wishes Yvonne

I think the relatives are normally called the 6 relatives, one per line.

Alex Chiu doesnt mention the celestial figures or heavenly creatures but they are included as ' The 6 colours ' ( page 405 the book ) green red yellow grey white black.They are always spread across the lines in that sequence.If the heavenly stem of the day is wood the first line is green.If the day stem is fire the first line is red, and so on as described in the book.They are not overly important, just complementary indicators.

@All: I am confused because I can`t edit my starting post. At some of my posts there is a edit button and at some not Is it a bug? Or is it just allowed to edit posts only one time or so? I will try to help myself by just writing a completely new post. Maybe some Moderators can help?

@peterg: Thanks again for your input. Please check out my update. I have added your post to it and started to write details.

Best wishes Yvonne

forty two said:

@All: I am confused because I can`t edit my starting post. At some of my posts there is a edit button and at some not Is it a bug? Or is it just allowed to edit posts only one time or so? I will try to help myself by just writing a completely new post. Maybe some Moderators can help?

Click to expand...

I think there is a time limlt on editing posts. Couldn't you add corrections and additions to the thread in a new post?

Update of the starting post

Hi all,
as some of you already know I`m dealing with an ancient and well guarded divination technique called Wen Wang Gua 文王卦also known as Liu Yao Yi Gua 六爻易卦, Na Jia and as Six Line method or method of Six Lines in english since a while.

I will write an explanation thread about this theme, when I will find the time for it, so that you all can follow the topic soon. But for the moment I am most interested into a few but very important questions concerning the rules of Wen Wang Gua so this thread is for those who knows already the rules or at least parts of it and could help to find out all original rules.

There seem to be differences concerning the rules of Wen Wang Gua. Jack Chiu (author: The Secret Of Wen Wang Gua) often use the phrase "it is said that..", "some Wen Wang Gua practioners think...", "it is written..." and so on. Alex Chiu (superiching.com) also uses a lot of rules and it is not for sure that they are all original. Some shall be invented from himself and so I will try to find out here (by time) all original rules of Wen Wang Gua and I start giving my input with the rules which are sure for me.

1.Bound and Strike called by Alex Chiu is existing (of course) and it is called Conjunction and Opposition at the book of Jack Chiu.
Update
1a.Active/Inactive Line
Yvonne:
First of all one has to look at the hexagram for active and/or inactive lines. The rules for active and inactive lines are different and complicated. Quiet Lines/Inactive Lines can become active/ Aggressive Inactive under certain circumstances and Moving Lines/Active Lines can become useless/inactive under certain circumstances. Often (as long as the Line is healthy and/or strong) it is only a temporary condition and can be changed again under further circumstances, this makes Wen Wang Gua a bit complicated and very complex. Further below I started to collect this certain „circumstances“.

2."The Day Branch is the Master of the six lines" is written at "The Gold Yarrows" the ancient rule book of Wen Wang Gua and Alex Chiu says the same. Jack Chiu used this quote at his book so we can assume this is also correct.
Update
Yvonne:
This means that the Day Branch is more important than the Month Branch. For example: Only the Day Branch can cause a quiet line to become an Active Line (Aggressiv Inactive) by striking. The Month Branch can`t do this (Alex Chiu).

3.Element Combinations (Water, Fire, Earth, Wood combinations) also exist. Alex Chiu called them Element Combos and Jack Chiu calls them Trine. (To be continued later)

4.Struck loose called by Alex Chiu is also original. Jack Chiu calls it the Aggressive Inactive caused by opposition if a quiet line is struck by the date.
Update
Alex Chiu:
4a: Struck: A quiet line becomes active when it is struck by the day branch.
4b: Loose: An active/moving line becomes a loose line when is struck by the Day Branch, it becomes useless because of the strike of the Day Branch.
Jack Chiu (literally):
4a: If an inactive line is however being opposite of the Day Branch, it becomes an Aggressive Inactive and will have the ability to impose vitalization and devitalization to the other lines. Since it is caused by Opposition, the Aggressive Inactive will not have any ability of Opposition and Conjunction.
4b: If an Active Line is being the Opposite of the Day Branch, it will lose it`s ability to vitalize and devitalize.

5.Quiet/Inactive Line: "An Inactive Line will become somewhat active when it is in conjunction with the day branch" is written at Jack Chiu`s book and Alex Chui says the same so we also can feel secure in this point.
Update
Alex Chiu (literally):
5a: When the date bounds to a quiet line, the quiet line will become active when a future year, month or date strikes the bondage open.

Jack Chiu (literally):
5a: The Inactive Line will become Aggressive Inactive when it is being the Opposite of the Day Branch, or if conjunct (bound) by the Day Branch. I will then have ability to impose the effects of Vitalization and Devitalization onto the other lines.

6. Advance and Retreat:
Update
Alex Chiu:
6a: Alex Chiu explained it but I can`t write down all this so please read the explanation of Jack Chiu.
Jack Chiu (literally):
6a: Progression (Advance): People may have different interpretations about Progression, but generally it refers to when an Active Line changes into its next Earthly Branch of the same Wu-xing property. For example From Yin to Mao, Chen to Wei …..(and so on.)

Others believe that Progression only relates to those of the properties of Earth, Wood and Metal. As such, there is no Progression from Chen to Wei, Si to Wu, Xu to Chou and Hai to Zi. This is due to the reason that they are in different sides of the Taj-ji Yin-Yang Diagram.

Progression is having the effect which is being doubled in strength. It is again not exactly a quantitative measure.

6b: Regression (Retreat): It is similar to Progression but just it goes reverse direction. When an Active Line changes into it`s previous Earthly Branch of the same Wu-xing property, it is called Regression. For example, from Mao to Yin, Chou to Xu.... (and so on).

Again, of the same token as in Progression, other people believe Regression is also related to those of the properties of Earth, Wood, and Metal only.

Regression is having the effect which is being reduced in half strength. Again, it is not exactly a quantitativ measure.

Yvonne: You see there is still much to talk about. That`s why I openend up the thread, maybe all this unclear or not sure points can be cleared by time.

7.The concept of empty dates is also original and makes sense if one thinks about that there are only 10 heavenly stems but 12 earthly branches. Alex Chiu calls them empty dates and the line with the empty element is called empty. Jack Chiu calls it neutralized line. (To be continued later)

8. "Kills back at itself" and „Produce back at itself“ called by Alex Chiu is also original and Jack Chiu calls Kill back at itself: "Returning Devitalization". But this is only possible at an active (moving) line.
Update
Alex Chiu:
8a: He explained it with „helper star“ and „enemy star“. So we are talking about the 5 Stars (5 Relatives). If an active line is changing into his „enemy star“ for example Brother/Sibling (B Star) changes into Officer (R Star) then the changed line Officer (R Star) can kill/devitalize the originating line Brother/Sibling (B Star). This is called: Killed back at itself.

8b: „Produce back at itself“ is the same but with the „helper star“. For example: If an active Officer (R Star) is turning into Asset (G Star) the Asset can produce back the Officer line.

Jack Chiu (literally):
8a: The Originating Active Line will lose its ability to impose effects onto any other Lines when it is being devitalized by its Changed Line. It is known as Returning Devitalization (kills back at itself according Alex Chiu).

The remedy is either (1) the Originating Active Line is being vitalized by the Day Branch, (2) the Changed Line is being devitalized by the Day Branch, or (3) the Originating Active Line is being vitalized by its invisible Line if there is any.

8b: The Changed Line will have the ability to impose all of the four effects, Vitalization, Devitalization, Opposition, and Conjunction onto its Originating Active Line or Dong-Yao.

Yvonne: This is the same what Alex Chiu means with „kill back at itself“ and „produce back“ just in other words.

Jack Chiu has some details about Returning Opposition for us:
Jack Chiu (literally)
Returning Opposition: The Originating Active Line will lose its ability to impose effects onto any other Lines when it is being Opposite of it`s own Changed Line. It is known as Returning Opposition or Hui-Tou-Chong. The Originating Active Line can only restore its effects when it is being conjunct with the Day Branch. The effects of the Day Branch is considered as external to the hexagram.

9.Double Appointed by Alex Chiu is not described at the book of Jack Chiu but the words about it from Alex Chiu makes sense for me. So: If someone knows definitely, please help. (To be continued later)

10.Six Strike and Six Match by Alex Chiu is also not described at the book of Jack Chiu but it seems to be original because Long Yi used "Six Conflict" as the name for a certain hexagram so I suppose this is also original. (To be continued later)

11. Links called by Alex Chiu are also not mentioned at the book of Jack Chiu and so this is a huge puzzle for me still. I don`t understand this link philosophy, but maybe I am just to stupid,lol. I will go on reading and hopefully understand soon. (To be continued if I will have understood it ;-))

12.Five Relatives called by Jack Chiu and called 5 Stars by Alex Chiu is the same and described as the same by both authors.
Update
Alex Chiu:
1. P Star
2. B Star
3. K Star
4. G Star
5. R Star

Jack Chiu:
1. Parent
2. Sibling
3. Child
4. Asset
6. Officer

Other:
1. Parent
2. Brother
3. Children/Descendant
4. Woman/Wealth
5. Officer/Ghost

Details:
Peterg said:

peterg said:

I think the relatives are normally called the 6 relatives, one per line.

Click to expand...

Yvonne: Actually Jack Chiu also called them 6 Relatives (not 5 Relatives) and he explained the sixth relative would be ourselve if we include it.

Jack Chiu (literally): Six Relatives is in fact to humanize the interactions among Wu-xing (5 Elements). They are namely the Parent (P) or Fu-Mu, the Sibling (S) or Xiong-Di, the Child (C) or Zi-Sun, the Asset (A) or Qi-Cai, and the Officer (O) or Guan-Gui. There are only five of them, but it would become six if we include ourselves.

(to be continued later)

13. Six Celestial Figures called by Jack Chiu is completely missing at the material (see update) of Alex Chiu but it is part of original Wen Wang Gua. At the book of Jack Chiu you will find a table where you can find out how to mount the Six Celestial Figures to the lines. They gives you additional insights.

Update
Peterg helps us out with telling us about the six colours on the website of Alex Chiu it is:

peterg said:

Alex Chiu doesnt mention the celestial figures or heavenly creatures but they are included as ' The 6 colours ' ( page 405 the book ) green red yellow grey white black.They are always spread across the lines in that sequence.If the heavenly stem of the day is wood the first line is green.If the day stem is fire the first line is red, and so on as described in the book.They are not overly important, just complementary indicators.

Click to expand...

Jack Chiu:
1. Azure Dragon
2. Vermillion Bird
3. Curved Array
4. Flying Serpent
5. White Tiger
6. Murky Warrior

(To be continued later)

14. Hidden Element/Hiders/Invisible: Seems to be identic at the material of Alex Chiu and Jack Chiu but I have to prove this entirely. (To be continued later)

15. Traps by Alex Chiu. I first have to prove this before saying something about it.
Update
I proved this in the meantime and I only found this rule at the material of Alex Chiu and it says:
Alex Chiu (literally):
e (Si) and y (Yin) form a trap.
For example: The self line P e (Parent Si) moves into R y (Officer Yin) which produces back at itself. So the self line formed a trap.

Trapping means they hurt each other. The element e (Si) and y (Yin) trapping each other is like man and wife fighting. If the appointed is weak and is also trapped, the appointed is in total trouble. For more than 20 years of I – Ching experiance, Wild Crane can only bring up one or two signs which can serve as examples concerning trapping.

Yvonne: I guess that means, that it happen very seldom and so this is probably not one of the most important rules but good to know.

16.Gua strikes back by Alex Chiu. I haven`t read this chapter until now, but Jack Chiu doesn`t meantion it. (To be continued later)

17. Subject and Object Line (Jack Chiu), S (Self) and U (Opponent) Line (Alex Chiu).
(To be continued later)

Update
Attention: This post will be long time work in progress, because it is a huge challenge to find, write down and compare all possible Wen Wang Gua rules to each other. I will edit this from time to time. I will add content, change content (if wrong or not complete or if I found a better explanation), I will try to add the most important Chinese terms in Pinyin and Chinese too by time and I need help for this project.

I hope that everybody who knows better or more or certain details will join to help to complete this list one sunny day. When it will be finished (hopefully), it will be a great help for each Wen Wang Gua student and so it makes a lot of sense to start the „project“ at least.

So: This is wip and it is just for starting the discussion and the exchange of knowledge and experiances. Please join if you know something which is needed here.

Best wishes Yvonne

@pocossin: Many thanks for the help. Yes I just wrote a new post. Maybe this is anyway better because the readers can see when I have done an update. So: Problem solved

Hi all,
long time no see. It is because I was horribly busy with learning this damned complicated, extensive and complex Wen Wang Gua technique. This is a fulltime job.

I made a decision and it is: I will stop this rules thread project here because there is simply no use. Once this was a pretty "nice" idea and a sign of my god will, but after watching the whole thing I see: There is no use to try to put all this knowledge into just one single post or thread at a forum.

It is simply way too extensive for this nice little plan. In the meantime I was working hard in studying the whole material of Alex Chiu and Jack Chiu and so far it is done and I could put Wen Wang Gua into practise in the meantime. Almost each day I analyse 1 until 3 hexagrams and this means that I could add own experiances to the material of the both Chiu`s.

The problem is: It is impossible to write down all the rules down in one list. For to give you an idea how WWG works there have to be done much more. Chapters have to be created, a new way for to write down the rules in a transparency way has to be created, explanations have to be written, graphics need to be created and and and. It is not done with just write down the rules. There are exceptions from the rules, special cases, connections which are absolutely not easy to explain or even to make them visible and understandable.

In short: My plan is to write an own explanation about how Wen Wang Gua works. This will be the next fulltime job and so I will draw back from forums for to work out this idea and that will take a very long time. Because there is no use to put all this extensive knowledge into a post *lol*, sorry for trying that, I was unknown, my new plan is either a blog or homepage. When it is done I will post a link to my project here at the forum but don`t expect this to be soon. I will need probably years for this project.

Maybe I can make it public when it is half finished at least but I don`t know.

Because you all don`t wish to wait years for additional WWG material I just can repeat myself and tell you:
Combine the knowledge from the Alex Chiu site with the book of Jack Chiu. This is the way I have learnt it and my daily practise proves that it works.

By studying the whole material of Alex Chiu you can learn how WWG works in practise and by studying the book from Jack Chiu you learn all about the metaphysical backgrounds and you learn all this what Alex Chiu hasn`t taught. Jack Chiu only gives you a handful of rules and it is not possible to practise WWG seriously with just this handful of rules and so it is absolutely necessary to study the whole material of Alex Chiu too.

When I say the whole material then I mean the whole material. The problem of the the teaching method by Alex Chiu is: Up from the beginning, up from the very first example he uses all possible rules and that is absolutely confusing for everybody who starts to learn this because he simply doesn`t understand a word. First when you have read the whole material, the whole 1000 pages of his book/Website, first then you will understand something because then you have learnt all the rules. Then you can read the 1000 pages again and you will be able to understand simply each example.

Each chapter of the material of Alex Chiu contains some very important information you absolutely need for to understand anything at all. If you just miss one single chapter then you miss something very important which is absolutely necessary for understand the whole thing. All is connected to each other in WWG. If you only read 80% of the material you are unknown, you can`t put it in practise. You need to read all, all, all. You need to read it more than one times you need to read all at least 3 times and you have to make notes for to be able to remind the stuff.

You have to practise and you will start to understand more and more by time. You make own experiances and you can add them to the knowledge from Alex and Jack Chiu.

Before I leave for a longer time I have to give you one very important information.

When you start to work with the material of Alex Chiu you can use his hexagram charts. But you can only use the hexagrams from the hexagram charts for the originating (the 1st hexagram) hexagram.

If there are changing lines at the hexagrams so that you have got 2 hexagrams then you have to change the Relatives at the changed hexagram.

For example your oracle is:

60.4 > 58.

Then you cannot simply take hexagram 60. from the hexagram charts and putting hexagram 58. from the hexagram charts right next to it. Do it NOT this way!!! This way it is wrong!!!

60. ----------------58.
Zi/t Sibling/B > Wei/wa Parent/P
Xu/sh Officer/ R >You/yo Sibling/B
Shen/s Parent/P (O/U) > Hai/h Children/K
Chou/c Officer/R > Chou/c Parent/P
Mao/m Children/K >Mao/m Asset/G
Si/e Asset/G (S/J) > Si/e Officer/R

The right way to note the 2nd, the changed hexagram, down is to change the Relatives at the changed hexagram according the chamber of the originating hexagram. It is too complicated to explain you here the whole thing, but you can read this at the book of Jack Chiu at page 124. He also teaches the whole setting and it is recommandable to learn this for to fully understand the mechanics behind WWG. What I try here is just to give you in very short, a very important hint how to be able to write down the hexagrams in the right way without the need of studying the whole material first.

The right way to note down the hexagrams goes like this:

- Write down the 1st hexagram, the originating hexagram right the way you see it at the hexagram charts on Alex Chiu`s site.

This way:

60.
Zi/t Sibling/B >
Xu/sh Officer/ R >
Shen/s Parent/P (O/U) >
Chou/c Officer/R >
Mao/m Children/K >
Si/e Asset/G (S/J) >

So far, so right.

Next step is: Look up hexagram 58. at the hexagram Charts of Alex Chiu`s site but only write down the Earthly Branches because they are correct.

This way:

60. ----------------58.
Zi/t Sibling/B > Wei/wa
Xu/sh Officer/ R >You/yo
Shen/s Parent/P (O/U) > Hai/h
Chou/c Officer/R > Chou/c
Mao/m Children/K >Mao/m
Si/e Asset/G (S/J) > Si/e

The last step is to check out at the 1st hexagram, at hexagram 60. what is Si/Mao/Chou/Hai/You/Wei there, which Relative is Water, Fire, Earth....and so on.

At the first line we see that (Fire) Si/e is Asset/G and so you write down Asset at the first line of the changed hexagram.

At the second line we see that (Wood) Mao/m is Children/K and so you write down Children at the second line of the changed hexagram.

At the third line we see that (Earth) Chou/c is Officer/R and so you write down Officer at the third line of the changed hexagram.

At the fourth line we see Hai. Hai is Water. Check out the first hexagram and look which Relative there is Water. The Relative with the Water element is Sibling/B because there is a Sibling Zi. Zi is also Water.
So you write down Sibling/B at the fourth line of the changed hexagram.

At the fifth line we see You. You is Metal. Check out the first hexagram and look which Relative there is Metal. The Relative with the Metal element is Parent/P because it is a Parent Shen. Shen is also Metal. So you write down Parent/P at the fifth line of the changed hexagram.

At the sixth line we see Wei. Wei is Earth. Check out the first hexagram and look which Relative there is Earth. The Relative with the Earth element is Officer/R because Xu is also Earth. So you write down Officer at the sixth line of the changed hexagram.

Finished it looks like that:

60. ----------------58.
Zi/t Sibling/B > Wei/wa Officer/R
Xu/sh Officer/ R >You/yo Parent/P
Shen/s Parent/P (O/U) > Hai/h Sibling/B
Chou/c Officer/R > Chou/c Officer/R
Mao/m Children/K >Mao/m Children/K
Si/e Asset/G (S/J) > Si/e Asset/G

This means, in this example, in this case:
All Officers here at the first and at the second hexagram are Earth: Wei/wa, Chou/c, Xu/sh, Chen/cn.
All Assets here at the first and at the second hexagram are Fire: Si/e, Wu/w.
All Children here at the first and at the second hexagram are Wood: Mao/m, Yin/y.
All Parents here at the first and at the second hexagram are Metal: Shen/s, You/yo.
All Siblings here at the first and at the second hexagram are Water: Zi/t, Hai/h.

If you have got another hexagram from a different chamber you have to do it same way, but ALWAYS you have to take the combination of the Relatives and Earthly Branches at the 1st hexagram (the originating hexagram) as a reference for the Relatives at the 2nd hexagram (the changed hexagram).

If you check out the examples of Alex Chiu you will see that he does it same way like me here in this example, but I couldn`t find any explanation about this in his material. But I only studied the website, maybe it is mentioned into his book I don`t know.

I hope this becomes clear now. If you don`t change the Relatives at the changed hexagram like it is described here (respectively at the book of Jack Chiu) you will note down the hexagrams in a completely wrong way and your analysis will also be completely wrong.

As said: I looked for this very important information at the Alex Chiu site but I couldn`t find it. I have written an email to Alex and told him that it is a huge problem that it seems he never mentioned this very important information. He wrote back that he would have mentioned this information. I asked him where he has mentioned, in which chapter. I never got an answer and I`m still looking without success for this information at his material and I still didn`t find it.

This shows you how important it is to combine the material of Alex Chiu with the material of Jack Chiu.

If you only study the book of Jack Chiu then you haven`t got any idea how to put this actually in practise, because there are too few rules and too few examples of the practical use of WWG. The whole rest you can learn from this book.

If you only study the material of Alex Chiu you can learn how to put WWG in practise because you will learn tons of rules and you will find thousands of examples of the practical use of WWG, but what it is worth if you don`t know that you have to change the Relatives at the changed hexagram for example

Maybe Alex actually has written down this information, somewhere. I can`t swear. I just can tell you that I have read all chapters again and again and I can`t remind to find this information somewhere. If someone will discover it one sunny day please tell us where we can find this information.

Last but not least I have to do make a correction concerning my rules above.

A struck loose line is not simply a quiet line which is struck by the daybranch. It is not that simple. I expressed this a bit confusing at my previous post.

A struck loose line is:
- When the elements of a real moving line are struck by the daybranch. When their elements are in opposition to the daybranch. It doesn`t matter if it is the element of the originating line (1st hexagram) or the changed line (2nd hexagram) or both. This line is useless. It cannot kill or produce other lines until the next opportunity of a bondage to the daybranch. Only a bondage to a future day, month, hour, year can make this line active, useful again.

- When the element of a quiet line is struck by the day, but only when it is the element of the changed line (2nd hexagram) (!!!) In this case this is also a struck loose line and the rules for the reanimation are the same like above.

Struck by the day but not struck loose is:

When the element of a quiet line is struck by the day and it is the element of the originating line (1st hexagram) then this line is not struck loose but active/moving. This line becomes a moving line because of the struck by the daybranch (opposition to the daybranch).

This gives you a little idea about how complicated this whole sh.. really is

This exactly is the reason why I have to stop here and why I have to consider about another, different way for talking about Wen Wang Gua in public. I definitely need much more space!!!! Apart from that I need ideas (how to express and explain something at all) and time.

I hope that I could help you at least a little bit so far with my hints and recommendations.

Own experiances: The rules not always work to 100%. Sometimes there are exceptions. Also in WWG there is space for surprises, it is more "flexible" than I supposed in the beginning. It is like a living creature and it slips through your hands like a slippery snake *lol*. It is a long and hard way to get a kind of control about the whole thing and the trial to put all this universal laws into rules doesn`t work all the time to 100%. There is a space of approximately 10 - 20 % for surprises. Count with that if you decide to learn this. Don`t get too much confused if sometimes something doesn`t work exactly how it is described. It still works good enough for to be called one of the greatest ways for to get an answer.

Happy new year to all and

Best wishes Yvonne
Ps: I`m still open for some questions and/or discussions about the theme (at the threads I have started, pm or email no matter how), but I don`t do serious readings for others by using WWG technique because I`m still learning and no one should put his/her destiny into the hands of a beginner

Your post is good.

I am Reverend Driscoll at the superiching forum. I am writing book. It is a summary of superiching in 100 pages or less. I have completed every chapter to be summarized except the following

http://superiching.com/protect.htm

http://superiching.com/lawsuit.htm

http://superiching.com/love.htm

http://superiching.com/investment.htm

http://superiching.com/business.htm

The book is so far like 60 pages. I will share them with you for free. No charge. I ask that you share your notes, and help me complete the last chapters of my book, I will credit you in my book, and dedicate it entirely to you and another member of the iching forum. All of my questions are in the forum, and all the answers.
Alex is never going to answer your questions, he is stubborn, this is very Chinese, and is not surprising.
Go here
http://idu.yuku.com/forums/65/Super-IChing

Hi.

Thanks to forty two for the useful summary of the rules.

With regard to setting up the six relatives - Parent, Sibling, etc. PBKGR in Alex Chiu's notation, you can use the free software in Alex Chiu's website, generously contributed by Hao Jiang. It is found below

http://www.superiching.com/forum.htm

Alex misspells it as hexagram genetator (generator).

When you click the phrase, you get to the page. You can save the page from your browser, and it works offline. It is, I believe, a javascript page.

Of course, as you posted, one has to get used to Alex's terminology - P for Parent, B for sibling (brother), K for child (kid according to Alex), G for girlfriend (wife or wealth in traditional Chinese metaphysics), and R ( don' remember. Maybe ruler).

The six celestial figures, as Jack Chiu calls them, which peterg says are the six colors, are indicated as well.

Very good explanation about Wen Wang Gua

forty two said:

Update of the starting post

Hi all,
as some of you already know I`m dealing with an ancient and well guarded divination technique called Wen Wang Gua 文王卦also known as Liu Yao Yi Gua 六爻易卦, Na Jia and as Six Line method or method of Six Lines in english since a while.

I will write an explanation thread about this theme, when I will find the time for it, so that you all can follow the topic soon. But for the moment I am most interested into a few but very important questions concerning the rules of Wen Wang Gua so this thread is for those who knows already the rules or at least parts of it and could help to find out all original rules.

There seem to be differences concerning the rules of Wen Wang Gua. Jack Chiu (author: The Secret Of Wen Wang Gua) often use the phrase "it is said that..", "some Wen Wang Gua practioners think...", "it is written..." and so on. Alex Chiu (superiching.com) also uses a lot of rules and it is not for sure that they are all original. Some shall be invented from himself and so I will try to find out here (by time) all original rules of Wen Wang Gua and I start giving my input with the rules which are sure for me.

1.Bound and Strike called by Alex Chiu is existing (of course) and it is called Conjunction and Opposition at the book of Jack Chiu.
Update
1a.Active/Inactive Line
Yvonne:
First of all one has to look at the hexagram for active and/or inactive lines. The rules for active and inactive lines are different and complicated. Quiet Lines/Inactive Lines can become active/ Aggressive Inactive under certain circumstances and Moving Lines/Active Lines can become useless/inactive under certain circumstances. Often (as long as the Line is healthy and/or strong) it is only a temporary condition and can be changed again under further circumstances, this makes Wen Wang Gua a bit complicated and very complex. Further below I started to collect this certain „circumstances“.

2."The Day Branch is the Master of the six lines" is written at "The Gold Yarrows" the ancient rule book of Wen Wang Gua and Alex Chiu says the same. Jack Chiu used this quote at his book so we can assume this is also correct.
Update
Yvonne:
This means that the Day Branch is more important than the Month Branch. For example: Only the Day Branch can cause a quiet line to become an Active Line (Aggressiv Inactive) by striking. The Month Branch can`t do this (Alex Chiu).

3.Element Combinations (Water, Fire, Earth, Wood combinations) also exist. Alex Chiu called them Element Combos and Jack Chiu calls them Trine. (To be continued later)

4.Struck loose called by Alex Chiu is also original. Jack Chiu calls it the Aggressive Inactive caused by opposition if a quiet line is struck by the date.
Update
Alex Chiu:
4a: Struck: A quiet line becomes active when it is struck by the day branch.
4b: Loose: An active/moving line becomes a loose line when is struck by the Day Branch, it becomes useless because of the strike of the Day Branch.
Jack Chiu (literally):
4a: If an inactive line is however being opposite of the Day Branch, it becomes an Aggressive Inactive and will have the ability to impose vitalization and devitalization to the other lines. Since it is caused by Opposition, the Aggressive Inactive will not have any ability of Opposition and Conjunction.
4b: If an Active Line is being the Opposite of the Day Branch, it will lose it`s ability to vitalize and devitalize.

5.Quiet/Inactive Line: "An Inactive Line will become somewhat active when it is in conjunction with the day branch" is written at Jack Chiu`s book and Alex Chui says the same so we also can feel secure in this point.
Update
Alex Chiu (literally):
5a: When the date bounds to a quiet line, the quiet line will become active when a future year, month or date strikes the bondage open.

Jack Chiu (literally):
5a: The Inactive Line will become Aggressive Inactive when it is being the Opposite of the Day Branch, or if conjunct (bound) by the Day Branch. I will then have ability to impose the effects of Vitalization and Devitalization onto the other lines.

6. Advance and Retreat:
Update
Alex Chiu:
6a: Alex Chiu explained it but I can`t write down all this so please read the explanation of Jack Chiu.
Jack Chiu (literally):
6a: Progression (Advance): People may have different interpretations about Progression, but generally it refers to when an Active Line changes into its next Earthly Branch of the same Wu-xing property. For example From Yin to Mao, Chen to Wei …..(and so on.)

Others believe that Progression only relates to those of the properties of Earth, Wood and Metal. As such, there is no Progression from Chen to Wei, Si to Wu, Xu to Chou and Hai to Zi. This is due to the reason that they are in different sides of the Taj-ji Yin-Yang Diagram.

Progression is having the effect which is being doubled in strength. It is again not exactly a quantitative measure.

6b: Regression (Retreat): It is similar to Progression but just it goes reverse direction. When an Active Line changes into it`s previous Earthly Branch of the same Wu-xing property, it is called Regression. For example, from Mao to Yin, Chou to Xu.... (and so on).

Again, of the same token as in Progression, other people believe Regression is also related to those of the properties of Earth, Wood, and Metal only.

Regression is having the effect which is being reduced in half strength. Again, it is not exactly a quantitativ measure.

Yvonne: You see there is still much to talk about. That`s why I openend up the thread, maybe all this unclear or not sure points can be cleared by time.

7.The concept of empty dates is also original and makes sense if one thinks about that there are only 10 heavenly stems but 12 earthly branches. Alex Chiu calls them empty dates and the line with the empty element is called empty. Jack Chiu calls it neutralized line. (To be continued later)

8. "Kills back at itself" and „Produce back at itself“ called by Alex Chiu is also original and Jack Chiu calls Kill back at itself: "Returning Devitalization". But this is only possible at an active (moving) line.
Update
Alex Chiu:
8a: He explained it with „helper star“ and „enemy star“. So we are talking about the 5 Stars (5 Relatives). If an active line is changing into his „enemy star“ for example Brother/Sibling (B Star) changes into Officer (R Star) then the changed line Officer (R Star) can kill/devitalize the originating line Brother/Sibling (B Star). This is called: Killed back at itself.

8b: „Produce back at itself“ is the same but with the „helper star“. For example: If an active Officer (R Star) is turning into Asset (G Star) the Asset can produce back the Officer line.

Jack Chiu (literally):
8a: The Originating Active Line will lose its ability to impose effects onto any other Lines when it is being devitalized by its Changed Line. It is known as Returning Devitalization (kills back at itself according Alex Chiu).

The remedy is either (1) the Originating Active Line is being vitalized by the Day Branch, (2) the Changed Line is being devitalized by the Day Branch, or (3) the Originating Active Line is being vitalized by its invisible Line if there is any.

8b: The Changed Line will have the ability to impose all of the four effects, Vitalization, Devitalization, Opposition, and Conjunction onto its Originating Active Line or Dong-Yao.

Yvonne: This is the same what Alex Chiu means with „kill back at itself“ and „produce back“ just in other words.

Jack Chiu has some details about Returning Opposition for us:
Jack Chiu (literally)
Returning Opposition: The Originating Active Line will lose its ability to impose effects onto any other Lines when it is being Opposite of it`s own Changed Line. It is known as Returning Opposition or Hui-Tou-Chong. The Originating Active Line can only restore its effects when it is being conjunct with the Day Branch. The effects of the Day Branch is considered as external to the hexagram.

9.Double Appointed by Alex Chiu is not described at the book of Jack Chiu but the words about it from Alex Chiu makes sense for me. So: If someone knows definitely, please help. (To be continued later)

10.Six Strike and Six Match by Alex Chiu is also not described at the book of Jack Chiu but it seems to be original because Long Yi used "Six Conflict" as the name for a certain hexagram so I suppose this is also original. (To be continued later)

11. Links called by Alex Chiu are also not mentioned at the book of Jack Chiu and so this is a huge puzzle for me still. I don`t understand this link philosophy, but maybe I am just to stupid,lol. I will go on reading and hopefully understand soon. (To be continued if I will have understood it ;-))

12.Five Relatives called by Jack Chiu and called 5 Stars by Alex Chiu is the same and described as the same by both authors.
Update
Alex Chiu:
1. P Star
2. B Star
3. K Star
4. G Star
5. R Star

Jack Chiu:
1. Parent
2. Sibling
3. Child
4. Asset
6. Officer

Other:
1. Parent
2. Brother
3. Children/Descendant
4. Woman/Wealth
5. Officer/Ghost

Details:
Peterg said:

Yvonne: Actually Jack Chiu also called them 6 Relatives (not 5 Relatives) and he explained the sixth relative would be ourselve if we include it.

Jack Chiu (literally): Six Relatives is in fact to humanize the interactions among Wu-xing (5 Elements). They are namely the Parent (P) or Fu-Mu, the Sibling (S) or Xiong-Di, the Child (C) or Zi-Sun, the Asset (A) or Qi-Cai, and the Officer (O) or Guan-Gui. There are only five of them, but it would become six if we include ourselves.

(to be continued later)

13. Six Celestial Figures called by Jack Chiu is completely missing at the material (see update) of Alex Chiu but it is part of original Wen Wang Gua. At the book of Jack Chiu you will find a table where you can find out how to mount the Six Celestial Figures to the lines. They gives you additional insights.

Update
Peterg helps us out with telling us about the six colours on the website of Alex Chiu it is:


Jack Chiu:
1. Azure Dragon
2. Vermillion Bird
3. Curved Array
4. Flying Serpent
5. White Tiger
6. Murky Warrior

(To be continued later)

14. Hidden Element/Hiders/Invisible: Seems to be identic at the material of Alex Chiu and Jack Chiu but I have to prove this entirely. (To be continued later)

15. Traps by Alex Chiu. I first have to prove this before saying something about it.
Update
I proved this in the meantime and I only found this rule at the material of Alex Chiu and it says:
Alex Chiu (literally):
e (Si) and y (Yin) form a trap.
For example: The self line P e (Parent Si) moves into R y (Officer Yin) which produces back at itself. So the self line formed a trap.

Trapping means they hurt each other. The element e (Si) and y (Yin) trapping each other is like man and wife fighting. If the appointed is weak and is also trapped, the appointed is in total trouble. For more than 20 years of I – Ching experiance, Wild Crane can only bring up one or two signs which can serve as examples concerning trapping.

Yvonne: I guess that means, that it happen very seldom and so this is probably not one of the most important rules but good to know.

16.Gua strikes back by Alex Chiu. I haven`t read this chapter until now, but Jack Chiu doesn`t meantion it. (To be continued later)

17. Subject and Object Line (Jack Chiu), S (Self) and U (Opponent) Line (Alex Chiu).
(To be continued later)

Update
Attention: This post will be long time work in progress, because it is a huge challenge to find, write down and compare all possible Wen Wang Gua rules to each other. I will edit this from time to time. I will add content, change content (if wrong or not complete or if I found a better explanation), I will try to add the most important Chinese terms in Pinyin and Chinese too by time and I need help for this project.

I hope that everybody who knows better or more or certain details will join to help to complete this list one sunny day. When it will be finished (hopefully), it will be a great help for each Wen Wang Gua student and so it makes a lot of sense to start the „project“ at least.

So: This is wip and it is just for starting the discussion and the exchange of knowledge and experiances. Please join if you know something which is needed here.

Best wishes Yvonne

Click to expand...

Very good explanation about Wen Wang Gua ... and its laws as revailed by Alex Chiu 's website !!!

Reply.

I am currently writing a book about summarizing all of Alex Chius book superiching. I will be finished soon, but if you would like to help speed up my work, I could take on an apprentice if your willing. By working together, we can get this done faster than separately.

Hi there, are you still doing this? If you are, I'm very interested to receive whatever feedback.

Thanks

wwfjdraw said:

I am currently writing a book about summarizing all of Alex Chius book superiching. I will be finished soon, but if you would like to help speed up my work, I could take on an apprentice if your willing. By working together, we can get this done faster than separately.

Click to expand...

Dear friend
I have made much work about Wen Wang Gua ....
I will try to send you a part of this .. And I hope to spend time to this Marvellous Art
...send me your Email ..
My Email is [email protected]