College advice

mudpie · May 18, 2007

My nephew seems all confused. He was all set to go Siena, a small collge closer to home, and then suddenly got accpted to syracuse, more prestigious school, where I feel he thinks he should go. BUt he seems nervous, unable to decide.

We asked about result of going to siena, got 13.0
same with syracuse 38.0

my sister asked me to ask again. What if he went to syracuse? 23.0
why do you say this, Yi? 26.3 >41

what if he went to siena?
33.0
why do u say that? 26.4>14

any thoughts anyone?

willowfox · May 18, 2007

"We asked about result of going to siena, got 13.0
same with syracuse 38.0"

Hex 13 says that he can achieve his goals by going to this college. it seems to be a friendlier place, and the people more helpful.

Hex 38 seems that Syracuse is not a helpful and friendly place, perhaps a much more competitive, dog eat dog place, probably have to be on his guard alot. It just seems that the other students are not very friendly here.

"my sister asked me to ask again. What if he went to syracuse? 23.0
why do you say this, Yi? 26.3 >41

Hex 23 says that it does not further anyone to go anywhere. Suggesting that Syracuse is not a good choice.

Hex 26.3 suggests problems with his fellow students.

Hex 41 suggests he may have monetary problems and have to be very careful of his spending.

"what if he went to siena?
33.0
why do u say that? 26.4>14

Hex 33 this says that he should withdraw his application to go to Siena because he would encounter problems that he could not overcome.

hex 26.4 says that he should hold back because of the difficulties that lie ahead for him, perhaps again monetary problems.

Hex 14 suggests that in holding back he will be better off.

There you go, a very strange set of answers, the only thing I can think of is that it is suggesting that he look for a third choice.

mudpie · May 18, 2007

hmmmm, wow. I agree that Syracuse seems a less inviting choice. I was confused by the 33, though since I do think he WILL be going to one or the other at this point. (admissions are a done deal for the fall)
I am hoping that 33 could also be saying that it is a safe place to go away to school because it gives him a great start in life ( even tho seemingly held back from more prestigious beginnings) 26.4, or, i.e. the trouble he mightve run into in another scenario will be averted. Money is not really the issue with my sisters family....at least not right now! but he does like to party and I worry about him because he seems quite innocent and naive.

thank you willow fox!!!

Trojina · May 18, 2007

listener said:
We asked about result of going to siena, got 13.0
same with syracuse 38.0

my sister asked me to ask again. What if he went to syracuse? 23.0
why do you say this, Yi? 26.3 >41

what if he went to siena?
33.0
why do u say that? 26.4>14

any thoughts anyone?

My only thoughts apart from what you've both said is the social aspect is going to be the main thing in how happy he is where he goes. Yes looks like he will get on better with people at Siena and may not fit in at Sycaruse. And I agree here with Wfox, taking all the readings into account for Sycaruse the reason things may not work out is maybe trying to keep up with others, whether socially or in another sense, feeling out of place - maybe going too far to fit in - you say he likes to party, maybe he would party a bit too hard if he felt like he had to struggle to be accepted.

I think the 33 is coming up for Siena because he himself withdraws somewhat - the reason being - 26,4 he restrains himself more, is more in control so to speak - and as you say he is a little naive perhaps thats a good thing,

Trojina · May 18, 2007

listener said:
I am hoping that 33 could also be saying that it is a safe place to go away to school because it gives him a great start in life ( even tho seemingly held back from more prestigious beginnings) 26.4, or, i.e. the trouble he mightve run into in another scenario will be averted. Money is not really the issue with my sisters family....at least not right now! but he does like to party and I worry about him because he seems quite innocent and naive.

QUOTE]

I think I agree with this. To me it does look like a case of averting trouble if he goes to siena. Infact maybe the 33 here indicates he get quite serious and introverted about his studies there for a while.

rosada · May 18, 2007

Sienna 13;
The superior man organizes the clans and makes distinctions between things.

Syracuse 38:
Amid all fellowship the superior man retains his individuality.

I don't see the I Ching as saying one is better than the other, but just as stating what the experience will be at these two very different schools. The one, Siena, sounds like it's small enough that he would be able to make friends easily and perhaps even become quite involved in the college social life. Is this a good thing? I mean, do you feel his life's calling is going to be something involving strong social skills, or do you think his schooling might suffer here, given his tendancy to "party"?

I don't think 38 is saying Syracuse would necessarily be Unfriendly, it may not be as social an enviornment for him as the first choice. This may be a good thing if he's found social activities have been a distraction for him in the past.

Personally, based on this reading I would go for Siena, but more importantly, is his mother sharing these readings with her son? Perhaps they will serve a a useful spring board to discussion and help lay ground work for being able to talk about his social obligations in the future. That is, she might want to be able to say, "Well, you know Son, we've talked about the need for focusing on your studies this fall..."

mudpie · May 18, 2007

thank you guys. as always , astute and insightful readings,
my sister doesnt usually ask me for I ching readings either, so I know she is really feeling torn.

I felt the same way, trojan

and yes, rosada, she is going to discuss with him, but he has been reticent to talk at all, seems nervous, escping into sports. he is a bit shy and he has always felt in his big bro's shadow, his big brother is a star in football, academics, social arenas.

willowfox · May 20, 2007

Hex 33 is not actually saying that he should stop going to Siena (my mistake before), only that he should make some kind of retreat. So retreat could mean entering the college next year but that isn't possible, so it must mean that he has to retreat from something or somebody while at the college. Therefore, it seems to be advising him to avoid a certain group of students, the ones that are classed as bad, the ones that never study and just party all the time, to curb his desire to be with them because it will only lead to trouble for him.

mudpie · May 21, 2007

WF I think you may have been spot on before with 33.

he returned from a visit to syracuse and he is now confident he wants to go. So the 33 no doubt indicated this withdrawal from the idea of Siena , holding back 26.4 > 14 for the greater possibility.

23 was what concerned me. BUt upon thinking of this in the immediate sense, it could refer to the collapse of his original plan. He was all set to go to Siena, and the syracuse acceptance came as a late surprise. 26.3 >41 than clarified this as once again holding back ....he rode the chariot up to syracuse and that simplified the issue.

i wouldve originally felt that Siena seemed to most welcoming, but I think once the heart speaks, like his has now, then the energy changes. I know he felt pretty frindly towrds Siena (13) and then he was nervously looking askance at syracuse (38) but his feelings were completely positive once he went up there and looked around.

so thank you everyone.

rosada · May 21, 2007

Dear listener,

Thank you so much for posting the outcome! It is so frustrating to focus on these questions, try our best to decipher the hexagrams, and then so often not know how things really worked out!

I will now consider 38. Opposition as highlighting the importance of making up one's own mind. "Thus amid all fellowship, the superior man retains his individuality." Your nephew visited the college and no matter what advice he was getting from everyone around him, he made his own decision. This I think is the key to understanding what the I Ching was trying to tell us, that is, why this college will prove to be right for him. It will be right because he chose it! Isn't this what the college experience is all about? A time when you learn to think for yourself. Bravo!

Interesting also that the answers got confusing when your sister asked you to ask again. I hate it though, when an answer doesn't make sence but asking twice is importuning..

Still, these confusing follow up answers also make sence with hindsight and actually will give us something real to reflect on when we reach 26.3 and 26.4 over on the memorization thread. I am curious about one thing. 26.3 mentions "A man is in contact with a strong will acting in the same direction as his own, and goes forward like one good horse following another." Was there an advisor or someone on the faculty at Syracuse that particularly felt your nephew should be there? Or does he have a friend where he is now who will also be going to Syracuse? Or perhaps this refers to his Mom urging him to just check it out? It may be that in this instance the strong pull he is following is his own heart, following his bliss. Anyway, if you have a clue, I'd be interested. Thanks.

Trojina · May 21, 2007

Yes its really interesting how that played out. Yes on reflection of course 33 can indicate withdrawing from the course of action you enquire about - here i reckon the Yi was being fairly predictive ie he will withdraw from siena.

The 23 really threw me though re syracuse though

mudpie · May 22, 2007

I just wrote a reply here and then it disappeared...so I hope this doesnt come up twice

but yeah, Trojan, 23 was like a dagger to my heart ; )...didnt want to tell my sister that.....but the more I think of it, the acceptance from Syracuse really caused the whole plan to crumble, my nephew lost his secure standing temporarily. Siena was a done deal, deposit sent, etc. and he was going there. Then he got terrified of having to make a choice all over again.

Rosada, I got chills just now after reading your post and question about 23.3. At first I thought.....no, he doesnt know anyone at Syracuse. BUt I suddenly remembered yesterday when my sister called, she said that as they got close to Syracuse on the drive up there, she felt a deep peace and confidence. She said:
"It was like Dad was there, telling me it was the right thing."
My dad (deceased) went to Syracuse. He was/is beloved by everyone in the family, grandkids esp, and is deeply missed. My dad was not only the "strong horse" of the family, but he absolutely loved horses.

The really weird thing is that just a week ago, there was a newspaper article about a famous horse named Ruffian who, many years ago, was injured in a tremendously exciting race termed the "Battle of the Sexes" where she raced another incredible horse, Foolish Pleasure. I cried when i read that article, because my dad had taken me and my siblings to that race... which stunned the horse racing world when Ruffian fell and broke her leg.
The race was sad, but the memory is a good one. I have been thinking so much of my dad since reading that, his love of horses, and how he inspired a love of horses in us. and how magnificent that horse Ruffian was. To understand the love of horses is like understanding my dad anew.

Anyway, I am kinda stunned here, and a little sniffly, by the connection between your words and my dad at Syracuse. Thank you Rosada.

I told my sister yesterday that a deep feeling of peace and confidence is an oracle too!
and pete has to follow his heart.
( and for sure my dad is a good horse to follow.)
thanks everyone. I am feeling all faklempt

rosada · May 22, 2007

Thank you, listener! Wow! Kinda curious about the horse race story. Hexagram 26 is about energies building up, collecting, like treasure stored in a mountain, until they come into expression. Your sence of your Dad's presence came to manefestration in the car ride to the college, but the energies might be said to have been collecting for some time and this newspaper article could be said to be kind of like the energies starting to manefest a bit before hand. Like lines 26.1 and 26.2. I mean, the two lines before 26.3 talk about the importance of going at a safe speed and the axeltree being removed, and newspaper article was all about a horse that went too fast and broke his leg. Not sure what that means, but it did seem like there's something there..desist/too fast..axeltrees/horses leg. hmm.. Well anyway, thank you sooo much for the update! This really makes me want to buckle down and get on with my studies too!

magictortoise · May 26, 2007

Listener,

Good question but you should never, never ask the oracle the same question twice. Would you ask a friend the same question twice? Like you didn’t like or were’t satisfied with the reply. You may ask at another time when things have changed, but certainly never in the next instant or day, whatever. Your sister was in bad faith with the original reply. Seems she just wanted to consult until she found an answer that satisfied her.

As for the original reply, certainly on the face of it going to Sienna is the choice. Going to Syracuse might meet with some discord. Curious, though, that neither had any changing lines.

Best regards,

KgW

PS next time make the question simpler: Ought I to go to Sienna? Ought I to go Syracuse?

Trojina · May 26, 2007

I thought the answers were pretty amazing especially that the horses in 26 aswell as the usual meanings also had connection with the grandfather and horse racing. Thats like a personal touch way apart from any traditional interpretations. It happens sometimes and its what always makes me believe the oracle is a living being.

hollis · May 27, 2007

hey

listener is an excellent i-chinger and i think she pretty much knows how to ask questions. she has her own style, which works for her, and it's nice to see free wheeling when it's from from a deft hand.

rosada · May 27, 2007

"Ought I go Sienna?" and "Ought I go to Syracuse?" are Yes/No questions and thus considered even more dispicable than asking the same question twice.
-- Ching Reliable Answer Police

mudpie · May 27, 2007

magictortoise said:
Listener,

Good question but you should never, never ask the oracle the same question twice. Would you ask a friend the same question twice? Like you didn’t like or were’t satisfied with the reply. You may ask at another time when things have changed, but certainly never in the next instant or day, whatever. Your sister was in bad faith with the original reply. Seems she just wanted to consult until she found an answer that satisfied her.

As for the original reply, certainly on the face of it going to Sienna is the choice. Going to Syracuse might meet with some discord. Curious, though, that neither had any changing lines.

Best regards,

KgW

PS next time make the question simpler: Ought I to go to Sienna? Ought I to go Syracuse?

Hello magic tortoise,

I really didn't ask the question twice. My nephew was having dinner at my house and threw the coins himself the first time. His question was "what about siena?" and likewise for syracuse. He said the responses perfectly reflected how he was FEELING at the time. He intuited siena to be a friendly welcoming place and was wondering, nervously, if he would fit in at syracuse.

Later that night, my sister called and said the pending decision was causing so much nervousness in the house, and in nephew, and she wanted to me to ask "HOW would it be if pete went to siena?" and likewise for syracuse. A different question than the one pete asked at dinner.

Personally, I did not like the response for syracuse, but he has made the decison to go there after visiting the place.....and rosada's intuitions about 26.3 gave me some comfort. in my heart, I have a wee bit of trepidation. BUT it is the book of changes, and sometime a change in heart changes everything. pete's heart warmed to syracuse when he went there.

thanks to everyone, magic, Hollis(you dear), Trojan(lovely words!) and dear intuitive Rosada

jesed · May 27, 2007

Just to say, again, that yes/no question was pretty much how ancients used the Yi. (will rain/ won't rain; attack/not attack)

rosada · May 27, 2007

Oh really? Well then, thanks for saying it again, Jesed. I know you once posted that Hex.1 with no changing would be a definite NO, are the other hexagrams so clear cut?

Please note C.hing R.ight A.nswer P.olice don't claim to know what they're talking about.

jesed · May 27, 2007

rosada said:
I know you once posted that Hex.1 with no changing would be a definite NO, are the other hexagrams so clear cut?

Well; I didn't say that.

I did say:
a) IN MATHEMATICAL METHOD, Hex 1 is a "total conflict hexagram"
b) In this same method, WHEN THE QUESTION IS A YES/NO QUESTION, a "total conflict" means NO
c) Even when you get a "total conflict" for a yes/no question in this method, THERE ARE SEVERAL EXCEPTIONS to the general rule (due to the changing/unchanging lines and even with unchanging hex due to day and monh when you tossed the coins)

Best

bamboo · Aug 5, 2008

amazing Yi

listener said:
My nephew seems all confused. He was all set to go Siena, a small collge closer to home, and then suddenly got accpted to syracuse, more prestigious school, where I feel he thinks he should go. BUt he seems nervous, unable to decide.

We asked about result of going to siena, got 13.0
same with syracuse 38.0

my sister asked me to ask again. What if he went to syracuse? 23.0
why do you say this, Yi? 26.3 >41

willowfox said:
Hex 38 seems that Syracuse is not a helpful and friendly place, perhaps a much more competitive, dog eat dog place, probably have to be on his guard alot. It just seems that the other students are not very friendly here.

Hex 23 says that it does not further anyone to go anywhere. Suggesting that Syracuse is not a good choice.

Hex 26.3 suggests problems with his fellow students.

trojan said:
My only thoughts apart from what you've both said is the social aspect is going to be the main thing in how happy he is where he goes. Yes looks like he will get on better with people at Siena and may not fit in at Sycaruse. And I agree here with Wfox, taking all the readings into account for Sycaruse the reason things may not work out is maybe trying to keep up with others, whether socially or in another sense, feeling out of place -

Just a follow-up. my nephew went to Syracuse, and had an alright year, never complained, but there was the sense that it was a place where he didnt feel as comfortable as he would have liked...it was a 38 year, as described above..high -paced and competitive, (26.3) and very different ethnically

and he is not going back. (23?) going to a smaller more congenial university campus where his good friend goes.

I think it was interesting that the Yi was far-sighted in its wisdom, and very right on about the experience my nephew was facing. as well as the outcome. Yi also suggested that Siena was a more friendly choice 13, but that once syracuse was in the mix, to go to Siena would' ve felt like he was retreating 33. I suspect 26.4 was suggesting the need to learn all of this for himself, by experience.

rodaki · Aug 5, 2008

fate on the move

I have to say I was a bit shaken by the idea of repeated questions as inviting fate to deal you a worse hand. For me this would imply an all-powerful law-enforcing presence that will 'punish' you or 'reward' you depending on your conforming to specific sets of rules. Personally I do not believe in fate as a fixed state and I always have to remind myself that even I ching's answers are not set in stone, hence it being called the Book of Change.

What I think was reflected in the change of answers was more of a refinement, a taking into account the fluid situation at hand, and mostly, the need for this young man NOT to comply with an obvious state of things but to go out there, guided by his heart and find out what suits his own character best, discovering in this way parts of his own make up.

As far as second questions, or even questions concerning others, go, my standpoint is that we should not feel restricted in terms of the questions themselves, but rather in terms of our attitude in asking them, the 'how' rather than the 'what'.
Treading carefully and respect for me could be the best way, so instead of interdictions we could focus on awareness and warning signs.

Personally I have often asked variations of questions and very often have found them illuminating (even when they seemed muddled at first sight). I will sometimes even ask for images of others' thoughts/feelings on specific issues and specific timelines and so far feel that the answers correspond to actual facts, but in this case it may be of more importance whether the person I am asking for is open to my tapping into their minds and hearts . .

Of course there is always the chance that I'm misreading everything and upon discovering it in due time I will feel really sorry for not taking up prudent advice, so i guess I' m taking that approach at my own risk

best,

rodaki

Trojina · Aug 5, 2008

Thanks for getting back to us Listener

rodaki · Aug 5, 2008

hmmm . . . bucketloads of food for thought for me here . .

I just love the idea of life as a dream that has already happened . . very Borgesian . . completely possible and completely incomprehensible (to me) at the same time!

Deeply intrigued by this . . so far decision has been the backbone of my approach to life . . but it has been built like that after drifting aimlessly around, mostly observing and learning rather than making things happen. In recent times I have felt true decisions, the kind that are scary and big, to be more a form of deeply felt need, of inescapable, inevitable choice which, in the end of it, has nothing to do with forcing your will on life, but rather on obeying a inner call . . it might look daring for people watching your life unfold, your family and friends, but for one's sense of one's life it is just right (i guess I could say 'fated' but not as a given mystical order made for you by a bigger force, but rather made out of imperceptible deals, negotiations between myself, limitations of life as such and pure chance)

Maybe I'm thinking of fate as one's own, as owned by every one of us but still bigger than us to fully control (I know I know, lot's of power issues there for me :rant:

)

Can definitely see you eye to eye on the risk taking part, I've seen that as 'consequences of my actions' reaching far beyond my reach, sweeping life and me like huge waves that can really crush my little boat . . definitely had losses to repair after those!

Anyway, don't let me bore people here with my own musings, the point I wanted to make about second questions is that I've often had them not in the 'give me what I need' kind but more in a 'I don't see clearly and need more help with that' kind . . and found the I ching willing to help and explain, by elaborating a bit more, by offering a slightly different image of the same meaning etc

All the same I have also felt it being very strict or even ironic when i asked impulsively (or was that me knowing I was being foolish?

)

Hey Twilight, thnx for the reply, do you think you could explain a bit more the 'life as dream' part? Seriously stuck with this . .

And Listener, yes, thnx for getting back and letting us know, it's always great when people revive old threads with new enlightening info, lot's of things to learn there too

:bows:

rodaki

bamboo · Aug 5, 2008

twilight said:
Hexagram 33 in the second bout of questioning looks like it meant not that he shouldn't go to Siena but that he wouldn't go.

His decision was fated. At the first questioning, he had a choice. And, had he wanted to follow the omens of the I Ching himself, he would have chosen Siena over Syracuse. When the question was repeated, the choice was gone. He would go to Syracuse and split away from it later. The option of Siena was withdrawn. He was funnelled into his fate.

Repeating a question invites fate to deal you a worse hand.

your last sentence is rather ridiculous!

but the above sentences...absolutely right. he had a choice at first. BUT NO matter that Siena wouldve been a better choice for him, he was enthralled by Syracuse and interested in doing something that would at last look like he had a leg up on his brother.

MY NEPHEW HIMSELF had no investment in and NO belief in the oracle. he asked me to ask the oracle at dinner because he was confused, but he was not inclined to follow the advice of something he considers silly at best. Siena was a beautifully congenial place but as I said, once SYracuse was introduced as an option, Siena was out. IT was NOT out because the oracle had been asked twice!

he DID NOT know the results of my future asking, it was never discussed with him

this is a prime example of a reading being relevant and able to be read by a reader, even when the querent has no understanding nor even desire to delve into the meaning much less take it seriously. the yi is not limited to only answering in an obscure way designed for the querent only to understand.

hollis · Aug 5, 2008

trojan said:
Thanks for getting back to us Listener

that's for sure for this reading for some reason or other had been floating thru my mind for a few days now, and lo and behold, here it is again!

rodaki · Aug 6, 2008

I liked something the Zen monk Ikkyu said at the end of his famous work Skeletons:

Writing something
To leave behind
Is yet another kind of dream:
When I awake I know that
There will be no one to read it.

wow!

:bows:

rodaki

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