...life can be translucent

dobro · Jan 15, 2008

Okay, Ichinguerros and Ichingistas, I need your input here. I've got two questions about 38.

1 I read it as meaning 'dynamic tension'. What's your understanding of the main meaning of 38?

2 Do you see 38 as:

a something slightly problematic (forces pulling in opposite directions, lack of unified direction)

b something slightly challenging (forces not pulling in the same direction)

c something positive (dynamic tension is good)

rosada · Jan 15, 2008

38.Opposition
is made up of the trigrams Li, the second daughter, and Tui, the youngest daughter. "Although they live in the same house they belong to different men; hense their wills are not the same but are divergently directed"
-Wilhelm.

Note neither of the daughters is the eldest daughter, so a lack of clear authority, direction. Thus neither viewpoint is right or wrong, just opposite. Like Yin and Yang. You can't have one without the other.

Interesting that Opposition follows Family. First we have the cosy closeness of sisters and from a distance the neighbors might say, "Oh you girls must be twins!" but the girls themselve know they are not clones of one another. Sometimes their differences can be very helpful, such as having different taste in who they chose to marry. At other times the opposing ideas can appear to cause conflicts, but Opposition seems to give guidance as to how to handle these energies:

1.When opposition first appears, don't argue, just leave it alone.
2. Try to find a way around it.
3. If you find yourself in the middle, stay calm and it will pass.
4. If the world is wrong, affirm your truth and someone will appear to support you.
5. If you are wrong, if you are the cause of the opposition, then change yourself.
6. You maybe still be anticipating opposition when really, the world is ready for peace.

So all in all I think we're seeing 38.Opposition as a time when people may appear to be opposing our ideas, but really, they just have different goals, different views. So how intense the Opposition is probably depends on how stubbornly we cling to the idea we are being opposed. Ultimately we must evolve to 39. and seek the solution within ourselves.

Trojina · Jan 15, 2008

dobro said:
Okay, Ichinguerros and Ichingistas, I need your input here. I've got two questions about 38.

1 I read it as meaning 'dynamic tension'. What's your understanding of the main meaning of 38?

2 Do you see 38 as:

a something slightly problematic (forces pulling in opposite directions, lack of unified direction)

b something slightly challenging (forces not pulling in the same direction)

c something positive (dynamic tension is good)

"Ichingistas" ! :rolling:

Anyhow I think 38 can be any of those depending on your question - however I see 38 as a time when you have to accept and appreciate a difference and not expect too much of the situation, whether in a relationship or anything else. You and the 'other' are never going to see this the same way, don't even try and don't give up your seperateness in an attempt to meld. Its like you won't get on talking about politics or religion, but you can talk about the weather. So its not a problem but a state of difference - which is only a problem or a challenge if you see it that way.

crystal_blue · Jan 15, 2008

Hello, doboro.
-

dobro said:
1 I read it as meaning 'dynamic tension'. What's your understanding of the main meaning of 38?

A situation where two different systems of thought are being applied to the same situation.

dobro said:
2 Do you see 38 as:

a something slightly problematic (forces pulling in opposite directions, lack of unified direction)

b something slightly challenging (forces not pulling in the same direction)

c something positive (dynamic tension is good)

I agree with trojan - it could be any, depending on the situation.

dobro · Jan 16, 2008

trojan said:
Anyhow I think 38 can be any of those depending on your question - however I see 38 as a time when you have to accept and appreciate a difference and not expect too much of the situation, whether in a relationship or anything else. You and the 'other' are never going to see this the same way, don't even try and don't give up your seperateness in an attempt to meld. Its like you won't get on talking about politics or religion, but you can talk about the weather. So its not a problem but a state of difference - which is only a problem or a challenge if you see it that way.

Well, in this case the 'other' is inside me, and what's polarized are parts of myself, each one with its own desire and agenda. I like the way you say 'accept and appreciate a difference' (left to myself, I'd probably roll my eyes and complain about it a lot and ask 'why me?'). I like the way you say 'not a problem but a state of difference'. I think, by accepting both parts of me that are involved in this polarization, by honoring both of them, something interesting might arise as the third, neutralizing force. If frustration, impatience and the force of habit don't win out first lol.

Thanks, Trojan.

cassius_clay · Jan 16, 2008

Hi. I'm parroting this but maybe this will help.

Hexagram 38 can be like this.... picture a situation where a husband and wife aren't getting along. They don't talk to each other, sleep in separate rooms, the whole nine. The solution might be in realizing that what's holding them together is higher than what they are going through. "Look I know we are having some marital disagreements, but lets stay together for the children.".

More than likely they will need the help of and expert because the situation is like a catch 22. If they leave they are messed up. If they stay they will be bickering.

Does that make sense?

dobro · Jan 16, 2008

It makes sense, and the idea that what's holding the polarized forces together is something higher is attractive, but from where I'm sitting, the jury's out on whether it's a higher force that's arranging the polarization, or whether it's just conditions. If it's just conditions, then it's *me* who's got to hold things together long enough for a third force (neutralizing) to become active and take things to slightly higher ground (pearl in the oyster arising out of irritation of grain of sand). It seems to me that it could be higher forces at work, or just automatic conditions - both are polarizations. Both require work to accept and deal with. But for me, the most important thing about the time of Polarization is that you can't accomplish a whole lot. Just minor stuff. Like it says in the text.

mudpie · Jan 17, 2008

I love LiSe's title for this hex......"looking askance" ...the sideways glance or the initial distrust.

it's also the mars-venus thing made popular by john gray. men and women love each other but they often dont have a clue how to understand each other.

the loneliness of the long-distance runner, the eccentric or the genius in the contxt of mainstream society.... or the artist who is not recognized in his time.

Rosa Parks..... the epitome of 38 at the moment she refused to get up from her seat... once the polarity was announced in this way, there was no going back. a higher force whose time had come. though she was found guilty of disturbing the peace, 39, the black community pulled together to face the obstacle, took it to the supreme court and 40! segregation was declared illegal

martin · Jan 17, 2008

I wonder if 'polarization' is the right word here. If people disagree about something (polarization) they have at least in common that they care about that same something. But I think that hex 38 is about situations in which individuals or groups (subcultures in a city for instance) have so little in common that they cannot even disagree. They live in different worlds, with different goals, values, concepts, issues, and so on, and what is relevant for one individual or group is irrelevant for the other.
I was once watching chickens that were picking grains and after a while other birds joined the party. And what I found interesting is that the different species hardly seemed to notice eachother. Except when a chicken and another bird zoomed in on the same grain. Then there was a moment of contact, it seemed that both experienced a kind of shock, "what the hell ...?" , but that was all. I think that is how hex 38 is.

rosada · Jan 17, 2008

What you are saying would seem to be supported by the IMAGE, Martin, "Amid all fellowship, the superior man retains his individuality." Perhaps the idea is the I Ching is demonstrating is how to avoid polarization. Perhaps it is pointing out that while it may APPEAR we are opposites we really are not. That just because you are fast doesn't mean I am slow although it may appear that way. The JUDGEMENT says in small matters we can agree and that by finding our areas of agreement we can have good fortune.

Interesting this hexagram follows The Family and gives as its image image two sisters growing up under the same roof. Certainly sibling rivalry is the classic example of Opposition. Cain and Abel.

Hmm..just thought of the law enfocement technique, Good Cop - Bad Cop, two policemen using opposite approaches to reach a common good.

Trojina · Jan 17, 2008

Yes I think 38 is not so much about fighting, arguing or making a point, as it is about seperateness and individuality as Martin described. As for it following from 37 someone here said its like being part of a family is okay but in adolescence one needs to finds one own self, be a seperate person and this does mean to go your own way you have to disregard others opinions and probably bear others disapproval to a degree. Actually I see this 'looking askance' as not at each other but having a completely different view of a situation with totally different spheres of interest,ie economic/emotional

If its a situation where only ones self is involved as Dobros seems to be, I imagine one has to accept one has pretty seperate agendas about something - or one can't comfortably satisfy both agendas at the same time leaving one ina kind of limbo where only small efforts are possible

Sparhawk · Jan 17, 2008

trojan said:
Yes I think 38 is not so much about fighting, arguing or making a point, as it is about seperateness and individuality as Martin described.

Chuckles!

Just wait until 38 comes up in the "Memorizing" thread for the Yi card. It is a cute one...

dobro · Jan 17, 2008

I like the ideas of 'completely separate species, completely separate agendas' contrasting with the 'belonging to one group' idea of 37. If that's right, then 'polarized' isn't the only term I could use; I could also use 'separate' (the adjective, not the verb).

maremaria · Jan 17, 2008

When I got 38 it looked like as the opposition in myself what I am now and what I want to be.
“LI is the second daughter and Tui the youngest daughter, and although they live in the same house they belong to different men; hence their wills are not the same but are divergently directed.” Wilhelm

Like two different people share the same life but each one wants to live it in her own way. The opposition is there and creates obstacles to further development but what is more important is a threat for life itself. Fighting might lead to a lose-lose situation. Maybe it is wiser to stand in frond of a mirror both of them and see the difference as well as the similarities. Allow each other to be what really wants to be.
Or maybe something like “lets agree that we don’t agree”
I have a friend whose taste in movies is “different” to say it politely. I had seen the worst movies ever released with him. He has that weird magnet . But still we have fun.

By maybe it is not 38, just our scorpion S/M nature. (both scorpions). Sometimes we like to torture ourselves

rosada · Jan 17, 2008

FWIW
In The Sequence it says "Opposition means misunderstandings."

Trojina · Jan 17, 2008

sparhawk said:
Chuckles! Just wait until 38 comes up in the "Memorizing" thread for the Yi card. It is a cute one...

Hmm that mean the card for 38 depicts a fight of some kind and Luis thinks it cute....hmm possibly naked mud wrestling with an S/M twist ? Those cards can be pretty kinky

Sparhawk · Jan 17, 2008

trojan said:
Hmm that mean the card for 38 depicts a fight of some kind and Luis thinks it cute....hmm possibly naked mud wrestling with an S/M twist ? Those cards can be pretty kinky

Yeah, it is a cute card. Reminds me of a Spanish soap opera, a 'novela,' with Chinese characters.

No S/M to report, sorry, but I like the way you think... :rolling:

rosada · Jan 18, 2008

You could always post the card twice...(you're right, dobro, I do have patience issues! :rolling:

)

Sparhawk · Jan 18, 2008

rosada said:
You could always post the card twice...(you're right, dobro, I do have patience issues! )

No, no, no... I'd spoil the surprise factor...

ravenstar · Jan 18, 2008

dobro said:
It makes sense, and the idea that what's holding the polarized forces together is something higher is attractive, but from where I'm sitting, the jury's out on whether it's a higher force that's arranging the polarization, or whether it's just conditions. If it's just conditions, then it's *me* who's got to hold things together long enough for a third force (neutralizing) to become active and take things to slightly higher ground (pearl in the oyster arising out of irritation of grain of sand). It seems to me that it could be higher forces at work, or just automatic conditions - both are polarizations.

For your interest.....In ta'i chi there is an old philosophy that states "stand like mountain, move like water. So profound and flowing is this.....and sounds so simple.

It is the union of opposites.....a mountain suggests stability, resistant to the winds of change....and water, simply means going with the flow, rather than trying to change things we have no control over.

Also habits tend to pull us one way and evolution (change) from the other....it can feel sometimes like we are being pulled apart.

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38

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