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Rosada:I see the whole theme of 34 as being about coming into a situation with more force than the situation requires...
To know beforehand his own limits is also a Great Strength.34.6 Soul realizes they may have some problems of their own that have been holding them back.
Six at the top means:
A goat butts against a hedge.
It cannot go backward, it cannot go forward.
Nothing serves to further.
If one notes the difficulty, this brings good fortune.
If we venture too far we come to a deadlock, unable to advance or to retreat, and whatever we do merely serves to complicate things further. Such obstinacy leads to insuperable difficulties. But if, realizing the situation, we compose ourselves and decide not to continue, everything will right itself in time.
Hi, Luis:... The stupid goat got stuck in the hedge because it forgot it had horns...
1st.: Do you meant that the goat thought to beat the hedge with the naked head? Maybe you're speaking of another goat or of another head. Goat heads have horns and the goat knows it very well.
2nd.: why do you think the goat(1) is stupid? He is only an animal looking for his freedom with the means that have at hand (his horns). If the goat is alone, maybe he gets nothing beating the hedge, but if he gets to beat at the weak point he can break the hedge and become free.
Luis:...the line only speaks of 'one' goat, not of many that can attack the 'hedge'...
Stubborn, why not persistent and resistant? It is the nature of the billy goat / ram to be so, it is his nature to fight for territory, supremacy and sexual opportunities.... The "stupid" adjective I used intended to be a humorous way to say that goats are stubborn in the pursue of their goals, even in the face of impossibility...
The line speaks of Goat / Ram, it doesn't specify number, can be generic or it's uncertain if one or more. I know and understand the image and I accepted it in the past. But now I believe that there are more than one way for undestand H.34 from the textual point of view.
We are splitting hairs but "persistent" works too, applied to a reasoning person, that is... In the context I'm thinking of, mindless stubbornness though, as in "unreasonably or perversely unyielding" according to one of the meanings of "stubborn," I believe applies better to an animal that has forsaken natural instinctual behavior and denotes an act whereby the subject "persists" in a course of action beyond the possibility of accomplishment. Mind you, a lot of us, "reasoning" humans, behave exactly the same...Stubborn, why not persistent and resistant? It is the nature of the billy goat / ram to be so, it is his nature to fight for territory, supremacy and sexual opportunities.
Now, just how do you, by using reasoning, convince a goat/ram of anything? Do you see where the metaphor of the goat/ram, being stuck or not, goes from here as applied to a situation depicted by this line? There is no reasoning with it... The only one that can get the goat/ram out of that bind is itself or by being forced out by something it cannot control but be hopelessly at its mercy and under its power (i.e. its owner) The owner of the goat/ram is not there to convince it of anything but to coerce and/or force it.People wanting to convince him not to pursue his goals maybe fears the possibility the hedge be broken. Interested advice given by the hedge (and goat / ram) owner.
What do you think about the 3rd. point?
...The owner of the goat/ram is not there to convince it of anything but to coerce and/or force it...
(1) «macho» in spanish, how do you say macho in english?
Good, Mike:RAMBO
Oh, Luis:
Your commitment with the standard version is hard.
I'm thinking in the ZhuanZi turtle. ZhuangZi could think what if he was the turtle. Cann't you thik what if you were the goat? And if the goat were yours? You go to use cohersion? Why if good for you it's not good for the goat?
I think, as many authors, he is a ram, not a goat. If you have a ram is because you want a ram as he is, if not better get a sheep or la lamb.
That the hedge can be breached is sure (see line 4), it's not impossible.
Thus 羝di1 is the sheep/lamb who resists, opposes, goes against → ram, the guy who bows the head and fight, the stubborn, men, we.
Rams are natural oppositors, people who resists (2), people who «makes his foot wide».
Don't you agree?
and 34.6 being, "But you may not have the inner self discipline to handle living in a world of no restraints."
Mike:RAMBO
Luis:The standard version, by some accounts, is perhaps close to 3000 years old...
...Coming from a country that raises and eats as much beef as my own, right next door to yours, you are too kind to livestock...
We are getting in trouble all the time, sometimes not for any fault of ours, but for the value of our furs, like foxes or panthers. I don't remember where I have read this. The wheel of fortune can turn and we could find ourselves fighting with the hedge like goats or rams....if you continue thinking as a goat/ram, you'll be in trouble...
Do you see, as me, the Martín Fierro's «pata ancha» in the old obstinate-lamb character?
Mike:
You make me think about a name for the goat/ram actor, some alternatives:
Maybe his name is William, aka Rambo, aka The Goat, aka The Ram, aka The Lamb...
- Rambo the Ram, always with a gun.
- Billy the Goat, instead of billy goat
- Billy the Lamb, when he was little
the hero with thousand faces.
Yours,
Charly
Charley
Billy the Lamb? Do you mean Billy the Kid ( i.e young goat).
Do you think William Bonney will turn in his grave if he thought he was being called a lamb?
There is also a magazine in the UK with a character called Billy the Fish....... now where does he fit into this?
Mike
Thanks, very much, Luis:There was a recent thread on the CHF about the character for sheep (羊) that is very interesting... I use the same user name there, Sparhawk...
Thanks, very much, Luis:
I go to see the forum assap. Could you tell me why do you use «Sparhawk»? Maybe a sort of Hawk? Forgive the curiosity.
Mike:...Billy the Lamb? Do you mean Billy the Kid ( i.e young goat).
Do you think William Bonney will turn in his grave if he thought he was being called a lamb?
There is also a magazine in the UK with a character called Billy the Fish....... now where does he fit into this?
Billy The Fish Born half-man, half-fish, young Billy Thomson’s dream was to play in goal for Fu.... United. And that dream came true...
From: http://www.sendit.com/video/item/7000000097016
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).