11 <3> 19

[nAstWr]

I am interested to know your interpretation about this cast.
I asked yi "is there any hope that I will have a long lasting relationship"? 11 <3> 19
The answer seems like "don't worry everything will be alright".
I have searched on the forum too

There is an inner conflict inside me. I want to make a relationship with someone that he could be the father of my children but I am so scared that I will be hurt more.

 

[rosada]

Hexagram 11.3 - hexagram 19
Unfortunately, no there is no hope for you to have a long lasting relationship but don't be sad, life can still be good.

 

[Trojina]

I am interested to know your interpretation about this cast.
I asked yi "is there any hope that I will have a long lasting relationship"? 11 <3> 19
The answer seems like "don't worry everything will be alright".
I have searched on the forum too

There is an inner conflict inside me. I want to make a relationship with someone that he could be the father of my children but I am so scared that I will be hurt more.

Well obviously as long as you are alive you have the potential to make relationships. But none of us can know how long these will be, we have to go with it. The length of a relationship cannot be guaranteed ever. People can die a day after we meet them.

You have said in other threads you believe the future is totally fixed. I think you are wrong on that and I think you could try to realise that whilst some aspects of our lives do seem fixed others really are not. There are no guarantees in life is what this line says, but on the more positive side there are also no 'forever' losses either. What is lost will always return, what returns will always be lost again yet nothing is ever really lost if it belongs with you yet we will experience all the losses and the gains, life is a bumpy ride. When a kid has his balloon taken away by his mum he screams like he was being murdered. Oh such a great loss. No use her telling him he can have it back in 10 minutes after they mounted the bus, he won't believe it. We are all like that in life except we are much bigger. All losses hurt, all gains bring joy, that is our human experience.

So, this is the human condition so what do we do ? We have no choice but to live through our lives. Going by your other numerous threads on this theme, where you dwell in fear and utter dread over never having a partner this acceptance of life as it is now, knowing there are no guarantees for anyone, is something I really think you need to take to heart.

All anyone has is this very moment they are alive. Not one person can guarantee how long any relationship will last since we cannot guarantee how long we will last...we can all die at any time.

If you cannot find a long term partner at this time it doesn't mean your life is not full of riches and nor does it mean you will not find them in time to come. We don't know, we have to ride the wheel of life where we are on it right now. Life is neither static nor predictable is what line 3 says and it also says not to sorrow excessively over it. I have the idea you have a sort of picture book vision of what people in long term relationships experience . You appear to think they have found the Holy Grail and the meaning of all life, but the truth is very far from that. People suffer even in relationships, they can be lonely in long term relationships as well as fulfilled. If you think a long term relationship is going to give you a totally perfect life then you are mistaken. No situation is perfect, there are always ups and downs so this line is counselling you to spend less time thinking about definite future plans and more time just being aware of the now and also being aware that none of us know quite where the path will take us.

Lives are stories with good bits and scary bits and bad bits and it wouldn't be much of a story if it didn't contain all these elements.


I think many others have said similar things to you so you probably won't hear what I'm saying as you haven't heard them...but anyway that is my answer to you and how I see Yi's answer here.

 

[Rosiie]

Oh my God- what an answer!
Compare your answer to Trojina's.

Why of why would you say that to someone ???? Why ??
You're in a very responsible position here you know with an extremely strong power differential on poor unsuspecting querents. Why do you think it's ok to demolish someone's hopes dreams or expectations?
And the patronising 'life is good' comment after it.

It's not the first time I'v been horrified to read the responses but in this case I'm just stunned.

You really should be struck off!

Have you any idea

 

[Rosiie]

Oh my God- what an answer!
Compare your answer to Trojina's.

Why oh why would you say that to someone ???? Why ??
You're in a very responsible position here you know with an extremely strong power differential on poor unsuspecting querents. Why do you think it's ok to demolish someone's hopes dreams or expectations?
And the patronising 'life is good' comment after it.

It's not the first time I'v been horrified to read the responses but in this case I'm just stunned.

 

[Trojina]

Oh my God- what an answer!
Compare your answer to Trojina's.

Why oh why would you say that to someone ???? Why ??
You're in a very responsible position here you know with an extremely strong power differential on poor unsuspecting querents. Why do you think it's ok to demolish someone's hopes dreams or expectations?
And the patronising 'life is good' comment after it.

It's not the first time I'v been horrified to read the responses but in this case I'm just stunned.

I admit I was somewhat horrified that is why I wrote the long response to balance it out a bit.


However I wonder if there was a context ? As I recall the person asking the question must have posted the same question here maybe 30 times ? Her profile is deleted so I cannot check but I do remember she kept on asking this same question over and over, she kept on asking if she would ever have a relationship and she got many many good thoughtful replies. Whilst she was grateful it did seem as if she hadn't read the replies she would just start another thread asking the same question.

Now perhaps Rosada had answered her thoughtfully several times, I think she may have but this person just kept on asking the same question as if it were totally fated 'will I ever find love' things like that. Many people tried to help, I think people put loads of effort in but nothing really got through to her, nothing made any difference. Whatever anyone wrote she would just post again the same question all as if there was a fate and she was doomed to it.

It could be having already answered her numerous times Rosada thought 'okay I give up...it's fated you won't have a relationship' do you see what I mean ?


Like if you were with a friend and they said 'I'm so fat' and they aren't and you say 'no you aren't' and you reassure them and say it over and over again and again and then one day you get to the point where you said it so often you begin to think this friend just wants to think she's fat because nothing you say makes any difference so you say "Okay you're fat, is that what you want to hear !?'. You may regret it later but you've said it at a point of desperation. I just wondered if that was the tactic Rosada was using kind of ? Like 'okay if you really want to think you won't have a relationship you won't have a relationship'.

I could be wrong but I thought that might be why Rosada said that ? That it was in the context of an on-going series of threads by the person on the same topic.

The thing with threads at times is that people will be answering in context of the relationship with the person from other threads but it will look weird to the person who just sees the one thread and not the context of previous 33 threads which will have sunk out of sight.

I could be wrong and it was just a straight answer but if it was it would be rather horrifying given no one can actually tell her she will never have a long term relationship.

 

[Rosiie]

Thanks for the thoughtful and kind explanation. It helps to understand the context yes and I think I sensed your response was an attempt to soften the blow. But it doesn't really excuse someone annihilating a person like that not in this context. That meaning is hanging there as an explanation of the cast and in this case it's not obvious that it's not a true meaning. It would be impossible to discern that this was a personal and weary response to someone who was perceived as not listening.

My own cast was about a minor matter and I had to remind myself that it wasn't relevant but not before I registered the impact of the comment.

In this medium it's not particularly easy to pick up on the nuance of sarcasm or other intended meanings without taking it literally and in any case it's not necessary to reply when the emotional content of that reply might be both unhelpful and so easily misconstrued.

Even if this forum appears as a light weight divination site people are to a greater or lesser degree quite engaged in bringing their problems issues and anxieties here for discussion or clarification that makes them vulnerable. It's all very well if there's an expert who has a heap of knowledge about the hexagrams and is tired that the querant just doesn't get .
It's not really ok to just vent like that these are sensitive issues it would be better not to say anything.

 

[Rosiie]

Thanks for the thoughtful and kind explanation. It helps to understand the context yes and I think I sensed your response was an attempt to soften the blow. But it doesn't really excuse someone annihilating a person like that not in this context. That meaning is hanging there as an explanation of the cast and in this case it's not obvious that it's not a true meaning. It would be impossible to discern that this was a personal and weary response to someone who was perceived as not listening.

My own cast was about a minor matter and I had to remind myself that it wasn't relevant but not before I registered the impact of the comment.

In this medium it's not particularly easy to pick up on the nuance of sarcasm or other intended meanings without taking it literally and in any case it's not necessary to reply when the emotional content of that reply might be both unhelpful and so easily misconstrued.

Even if this forum appears as a light weight divination site people are to a greater or lesser degree quite engaged in bringing their problems issues and anxieties here for discussion or clarification. That makes them vulnerable. It's all very well if there's an expert who has a heap of knowledge about the hexagrams and is tired that the querant just doesn't get it.

It's not really ok to just vent like that, you don't know what the consequences will be and you're taking an impulsive and unnecessary risk with someone unknown person's sensibilities. You don't know what the impact will be. These are sensitive issues, it would be better not to say anything.

 

[Rosiie]

(Didn't intend to put a smiley on there bytheway )

 

[Trojina]

Well Rosada messaged me about another matter so I took the opportunity to show her this thread and my explanation here saying of course I have no idea if my explanation is correct is or whether I'm guessing

Thanks for the thoughtful and kind explanation. It helps to understand the context yes and I think I sensed your response was an attempt to soften the blow. But it doesn't really excuse someone annihilating a person like that not in this context. That meaning is hanging there as an explanation of the cast and in this case it's not obvious that it's not a true meaning. It would be impossible to discern that this was a personal and weary response to someone who was perceived as not listening

Rosada aside one thing to do if you see really harmful answers is to use the report button and report the post. You can do that not because a person broke any rule as such but because you are very concerned that someone is being given very damaging advice and you aren't able to or can't go in there yourself to object. If it is that bad generally either a moderator or Hilary will come along and say something that clarifies or alleviates the situation. Here, well Rosada herself is a moderator so that's tricky. (I don't mean of course report just poor answers or answers one doesn't agree with but answers that make you worry. I know you know that but thought I had better clarify)

In this medium it's not particularly easy to pick up on the nuance of sarcasm or other intended meanings without taking it literally and in any case it's not necessary to reply when the emotional content of that reply might be both unhelpful and so easily misconstrued.

True but we are all just human and I think when there are people who respond a great deal they can get tired without knowing it.

Even if this forum appears as a light weight divination site

Ah, You see the forum as a 'light weight divination site' ? Interesting.

people are to a greater or lesser degree quite engaged in bringing their problems issues and anxieties here for discussion or clarification. That makes them vulnerable. It's all very well if there's an expert who has a heap of knowledge about the hexagrams and is tired that the querant just doesn't get it.

I do totally agree with you but I would also point to the skewed, unhealthy dynamic in this section that doesn't work in favour of the 'workers'. There are a bunch of people who regularly respond to others queries and another bunch of people who only show up to receive. There are people here who are really 'quite engaged' in putting a lot of work and effort into helping others with their queries. I think it's a pity it is almost the norm that these people very often put in at least ten times the effort and work of those who seek the help. Now the people who regularly and routinely respond are not paid workers, they don't owe anyone anything so how far to account can they be held ? They aren't salaried counsellors nor trained counsellors.

It's not wrong that new people to the I Ching show up for help and are not yet able to offer any but so often there is this vibe that these are 'customers', although they pay nothing and the 'staff' ie those who respond ought to serve them as they would like At time this can get quite ludicrous. I have seen people storm off because no one answered them yet just as if they were owed for a service they paid for.

Because of this unhealthy balance, where some how many people think they do not need to engage with their reading at all we have a situation where people very often just write one line such as
'I got 39>40 what does it mean ?'. It would be more balanced if people started to engage a bit more with their reading, as the link in my signature, the sticky outlines.

So I do agree people can be vulnerable when they come for help and I heartily dislike casually careless throwaway fortune teller's 'readings' where a person is told things that are not in Yi and that they have no business in claiming they know anyway. But then again the nature of the forum is it is open for anyone to offer interpretation help so if it doesn't break rules there is not much to be done except use report button if really concerning or counter their reading with your own.

It's not really ok to just vent like that, you don't know what the consequences will be and you're taking an impulsive and unnecessary risk with someone unknown person's sensibilities. You don't know what the impact will be. These are sensitive issues, it would be better not to say anything.

I agree but then I have likely been guilty of the same thing at some point as we all have who routinely respond to others here. One good thing I see here is that I think we work in some ways as a team, even though we aren't an organised team. There is a group of people who look down the list of threads and make sure everyone is responded to. It's rare anyone goes without being responded to which is amazing really. They effectively work here voluntarily, they get no support, they aren't trained therapists or counsellors so there will be times they are insensitive.

All of the above is not about Rosada BTW I am taking the opportunity for a general proclamation of worker's rights, pay and conditions of service and treatment from the public.

 

[rosada]

Rosie has brought up some valid concerns here. Yes, people are often in a very vulnerable state when they share their life questions on a public forum and there is an unspoken but real responsibility for respondents to take this into consideration when they post. However, there is also a responsibility on the part of those who ask the questions - such as to only ask a question one time (see hexagram 4. Youthful Folly), that it not be a "yes or no" question and of course to give feed-back. In this instance the poster had previously asked the same question and obviously not been satisfied with the many encouraging responses she received which suggested to me that she felt in her heart of hearts she was never going to have a lasting relationship and was looking for the I Ching to just say so and put her out of her misery. Maybe not, maybe she was hoping the I Ching would specifically say "You will meet Mr. Right and live happily ever after" but we know there are no such answers in this book and every hexagram can be interpreted to mean "Yes" and every hexagram can be interpreted to mean "No". In this instance if you read the exact wording of hexagram 11.3 - hexagram 19 you will see that it specifically cautions her that nothing lasts forever. I felt if pressed to say this meant yes or no, this answer had to be a "No." I agree I could have answered her less cryptically - and I am grateful that Trogina felt to give her a more expansive interpretation - however I also think we consult the I Ching because we want straight answers. Sometimes we'll get "Supreme good fortune" and sometimes we get "Bloody tears flow" but we never get anything sugar coated. I believe my interpretation of 11.3 was justified/necessary if only because she had stated she thought the 11.3 answer was a Yes and I gave her reason to see it could also be a No. Fortunately Trogina entered in to add a bit of human compassion.
Finally we got no feedback - not even a tap on the thanks button for Trogina - so we don't know if she found these responses helpful or disturbing. Maybe my being blunt helped her to re-evaluate her entire life course and opened up the possibilities for miracles!
Or not. But anyway, thank you for expressing your concern. And of course if anyone finds a post objectionable they can report it to the moderators and they will handle it - even if it's about me!
Rosada

 

[Rosiie]

Thanks for your magnanimous and careful explanation Rosada. It's better that the full response is included as it shows the process.

 

[MusicianSavant]

How have things worked out for you?