A legal question

[void]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

The answer that Jte gave me was simply impossible to translate into any kind of positive action - in a word it was totally unuseful, and a waste of time for both of us. I hope we could all avoid this kind of misunderstanding in the future with some more attention.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Jeez, Attention forum members please pay more attention to Vassilissas fascinating problems !!

I'm trying to figure out this bizzare 'you work for me' attitude ? Possibly a language problem ? English clearly not her first language.

Anyway I for one do not give a ..... about her inheritance, book or anything else.

 

[luz]

What I really like is when people are rude, ungrateful and mean and then sign off with "love" or "kisses".. what do they mean?????

 

[void]

Don't know, could mean they have inherited some kind of 'distorted personality' disorder

 

[amalia]

Dear all,
My best friend invited me to lunch (we couldn't meet for some time), and I am tweeting as a bird. Even if my PC (because of my evident "lack of social skills", Jte would say) deleted, in a fit of bad temper (no surprise, knowing its owner), the biggest message I wrote in my whole life. But who cares, after all? I will write something longer, even with my "language problems" - or because of them...
First of all, I have a horrible character. We all know. Nulla quaestio, they say in Latin.
Secondly (to be more precise about "my" "distorted personality"), I am definitely not only rude, but also colleric, dispotic and intolerant (is it enough?) when I seem to "smell" carelessness in what somebody is saying about a problem which gets me out of my mind. I admit I simply cannot stand the fact people use to say/write/whatsoever the first thing they have in mind. And, yes, this is a positive reason why I sometimes have stormy relationships with people. And it is exausting. Every time, I must choose between being silent (and have a false human relationship which I will never care about); or being honest and shout. Sometimes I stay still. Sometimes I shout. Of course shouting is no solution - but give me a good reason why I must always stay still. And, more of that, I found relationships that survive shouting are the only one which are worth keeping. That is also the answer to Lightangel's question: "What I really like is when people are rude, ungrateful and mean and then sign off with "love" or "kisses".. what do they mean????" They mean, my dear: "I am really angry with you; as you, on your side, are really angry with me. I would like to smack you and you would like to smack me. We will never agreee about what happened. But we are human beings. Maybe we will agree about some other point, some other time. This anger is partial and unrelevant. Kisses." Yes: to know somebody, you must run the risk of being smacked, or kicked. And than kisses. You believe in politeness, which is a value I acknowledge as fundamental (for instance, no work place could run without it, for how could be hatred managed otherwise?); but I believe more in passion.
Notwithstanding (let me add) in this case I did not shout. I wrote no insults. And yet it seemed I stroke a real sensitive key in "asking too much": too attention, too consideration, too precision. You all seem to say: "We cannot accept your behaviour, My Goodness! For any kind of help must be welcomed - who do you think you are, to ask for our true attention?". I am sorry to remark, one more time, I totally disagree: attention is something everybody of us must ask for. But you were not precise in defining my attitude as "work for me!". Instead. I have a "If you want to say something, say something you really thought upon. Give me your real attention, not your carelessness. If you cannot, leave me alone" attitude (by the way, that is the reason why I do not answer to others' messages - I simply do not believe I am competent enough about the Yi). I see asking such is, for you, being a Royal Highness; and so I must accept I am. But I cannot be angry anymore: instead, I find myself obliged to feel pityful for you. I fear you must be all people used to receive very little love and consideration - so, of course, one like me is definitely unacceptable and "out of question". From your point of wiew, you are perfectly right, and I must ask for pardon. If you are willing to give it.
(This has nothing to do with all this, but I must say I cannot believe being a Royal Highness is an insult, even if you wrote it with all the intensity of your contempt - it it really too fascinating! I'd love to post all my future messages as "Royal Highness Vassilissa" - But, you know, we are poor barbaric republican people, and we still think kings and queens have their charms...)
Leaving apart all this considerations, Jte, you are perfectly right in saying I was not clear nor transparent. I am really guilty about it. And
(even if you wrote I have been honest) I was not perfectly sincere either. The point was, your "gut reaction" really hurted me - I should have told you. I suppressed pain and I showed anger. I should not have done it. But, most of all, I "infer too much" - that is, I am always "studying" what people say/do/writes etc. in order to understand their secret troubles/feelings/whatsoever, and therefore I expect the whole world to do the same with me (world which I always find with great astonishment is really far from doing it... Anyhow, please observe I am a Royal Highness with some notions of reciprocity). Now, I can do whatever I want, but I definitely cannot expect you to be an interpreter of my cryptical messages - even if, yes, I will espect you and everybody in the world to do it, but this is just a dream of my "distorted personality"...
I have to add that, unfortunatly, there are really *no* ways to miminize interaction with your "distorted personality" aunt (yesterday she was re-baptised "Torquemada" by a friend of mine, and I find it fitting!), and *no* ways to reduce the negative effects of association with her. I have so many problems in accepting the fact I have no control over this situation that I was not even able to describe you all! The only thing I can do is sometimes saying "no". But why thinking to it again? I am in a good mood. I want to be positive even for, let's say, three days...
By the way, Void, you can possibly be right. I have good reasons to believe mental disorder is somewhat genetic in my family, so I could have inherited it even before my estate.
Now I have been really sincere (I can look myself in the mirror again). And I received some good news (not connected with my aunt, but good!). I think you all had enough of me, and I am late for dinner. I'll be out for a while, with your great relief. Kisses anyhow (you surely have no idea how I can be embraceble!), Vassilissa.
P.S. Jesed, thanks again.
P.P.S. Am I really the "rudest person that ever happened to pass in this forum" (Or whatever you called me)? Really UK is incredible. Do you have just a pale idea of what happens in an ITALIAN forum? Do you know I am usually considered as "too formal"? Kisses (I somewhat like to tease you...)

 

[bruce]

you really are a good writer!

PS: I prefer passion also. In fact, I prefer an honest insult over a gratuitous compliment.

 

[luz]

Well, I like passion and honesty too but, as much as I like to believe I am a princess myself, I believe in being considerate and appreciative of people who obviously have nothing but good intentions.. Vassilissa feels sorry for us for not having such a feeling of entitlement but I feel sorry for whatever has made her so angry.

Plus, I am not convinced she is completely honest, those kisses still seem a little suspect to me..

 

[bruce]

Maybe we can convince Hilary to change the name of this forum to I Ching Finishing School of Social Graces. Or maybe, The Establishment.

It?s enough to make me want to throw my love beads away!

 

[luz]

You are very stubborn Bruce..

It's not about social graces. It's about next time I post a question in this forum I don't want people to think twice before responding or taking too long to respond, for that matter (going over my post in great detail, making sure they dont miss anything), in fear that I will accuse them of wasting my time! See, I believe that people 'working for me' should be fairly happy in doing so.

P.S. What are love beads for???

 

[bruce]

lol

Me? Nahhh.. how do you think I got the nic-name "old goat"?

I understand, believe me. Not as if I've never gotten kicked in the ass for trying to help someone. But even the Roman Catholics get forgiven when they fess up.

To me, it's like opening a store, and putting a sign on it which reads "Free Candy". Someone comes in , takes a mouthful of candy and says "are you kidding me? You call THIS candy", and then huffs back out of the store (for whatever their own personal reasons). Sheesh, you say. But yet you were the one who offered to give candy. Free means: no recompense; gratitude optional.

I like it as much as anyone to be treated with patience and kindness, especially when I try to help someone, but sometimes.. well, it doesn?t happen that way.

If you?ve ever visited other forums where free readings are offered, you know what I?m saying. Compared to most, this place is a love fest. Speaking of which, love beads are what 60?s hippies wore.

 

[micheline]

If you read through a lot of the old posts, you can see fights and arguments that curl your hair.
When I first saw some of them, I was afraid..wondering how I would handle it if anyone was cryptic or insulting to me...but then I thought it was maybe a good thing that people could fight with healthy honesty and get on with it.

I dont like dis-honest fighting though, like blasting threatening someone privately on email...or telling someone,sarcastically, and without provocation that you think they provide "entertainment" to the board when they are sincere and kind. I have seen that. I think hand-slapping is okay too when there is unnecessary insult.

I adore jte's posts and think he is such a stand-up guy, and quite sincere and helpful...that it did bother me when V was stern with him and misunderstood his kindness as carelessness.

BUt in general, when talking on an internet forum like this, it is so easy to take things wrong, or "hear" insult when none was intended. I try to keep that in mind.
V seems more honest, maybe a tad ornery ,than nasty.
i like the tai chi way that some people on this board, (esp one whose name is martin!), come back at insults. he bounces out of the way and comes back up smiling. I have learned from his gentle refusal to take insult in the first place. Sorry, martin, to use you as an example but I really have enjoyed witnessing that over the last year or so.

love beads! yeah man. peace

 

[bruce]

Micheline, so true. I think there is a highly defensive mechanism which is active online that doesn't exist in real time. People that fight online would probably not fight if they sat next to each other at work, or in a social or learning group. Online leaves gaping holes, through which interpretation of intension must pass.

The other thing here is that mutual interest in Yi has brought people of very different backgrounds together. One comes from a softly mannered family or ethnic background, another from a loud and expressive background. Educational and economic backgrounds are typically big barriers. Considering all that, we don?t do too badly ?round here.

When judging others, which is better: an emotional outburst, or a calculated, strategic approach? I think we each have our preferences for that. Me, I find the coy approach dishonest and sneaky, and therefore disturbing. Someone else is incensed by rude manners; preferring polite and proper tact over an in-your-face approach.

I believe without doubt that this community, as a whole, has matured and grown past much of the over-sensitivity that plagued its first couple of years.

As for Jeff, I have nothing but respect and affection for the guy. He too has been around here a long time. I can't recall Jeff ever giving an in-depth analysis/interpretation. What he offers he does with great humility, and clear insight. If Jeff felt violated, it was cool (imo) that he could step up and speak his mind. It was he who received the offense.

(have a strange urge to break out the wha-wha peddle and play 70?s porno-funk) Oooh yeah baby?

 

[martin]

Thank you Micheline, no insult taken of course because you use me as an example

.
But I have on occasion also fired back quite directly

when I felt irritated.
It has not always been gracious bouncing and I can be a bit (?) nasty when I am in "debating mode".
But then, I like passion while at the same time, as the Dalai Lama said, "my religion is friendliness". So, I guess I'm a mix.

 

[martin]

"People that fight online would probably not fight if they sat next to each other at work, or in a social or learning group."

I agree Bruce, I have rarely seen so much misunderstandings between people as in discussions online. And it is very very easy to read things in written words that were not intended.

 

[bruce]

eeyup

 

[jte]

Hi, Vassilissa -

Well, to the extent that your post above was an apology, consider it accepted. And to the extent that you are saying "hey, we're all human, I'm not perfect and neither are you", that is certainly true.

I seem to have misunderstood the tone of some of the things you wrote, esp. the "love and kisses" part, so for that I can apologize, too - I felt "bashed" as we say, and misunderstood. Also, some of the things I wrote above were more me venting my anger and of course are almost certainly not actually true.

Anyhow, as far as I'm concerned we can leave this behind and not worry about it anymore. Hopefully you feel the same...

- Jeff

 

[jte]

"I adore jte's posts and think he is such a stand-up guy, and quite sincere and helpful..."

"As for Jeff, I have nothing but respect and affection for the guy..."

Well that is certainly nice to hear - thanks very much both of you!

- Jeff

 

[luz]

Well, I am glad that I don't have the time to even look for other forums. This is usually a very pacific place and I agree with what Bruce says about the factors that perhaps make it difficult sometimes for people to understand each other in this comunity. It is, in fact, amazing how well this works out considering the different backgrounds and the lack of real life contact.

I guess what really bothered me (and this is in the latter post, when she actually said that she was angry) is that Jte is an excellent guy, as you all have said, and I tend to be a bit defensive when somebody I like is 'attacked'. But I agree, Bruce, if Vassilissa apologizes (and maybe throws in a few hail marys) well, she should be forgiven and Jeff has already done so. I agree with Micheline also that it is much worse when people are underhanded about their anger.

And, regarding Martin, well, he's living proof that you can be royalty (he is a 'prince') and still be nice!

 

[jerryd]

BRUCE.........Man you do have some kind of guts, holding that poor Goat up and with no hands....can I as how ya did it...red in the face, toung in cheek!!!LOL

 

[bruce]

Jerry, ya don't wanna know, trust me.