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pocossin

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cat eldercare

Even after being regularly fed, the cat continued to hunt actively. I had never before seen such a hardworking cat. Each morning I would see it marching around the inner perimeter of the yard, and it spent hours each day hunting in an edging of mondo grass, apparently rodents' preferred habitat. It would spend much time standing up on two legs to peer over the mondo grass. My late mother was beginning to vegetate, and I could get her to do nothing. She spent hours watching the cat work in the back yard, and one day while she was having lunch she asked to me to let Kitty (thus the name) into the house. I was somewhat concerned about this because the cat was still half-wild, but I finally got it to come inside and went about my chores. When I returned to the house, my mother was eating out of one side of her plate, and Kitty was one the table eating from the other side. Kitty had discovered a new human friend. She soon learned that she could jump onto the window sill next to my mother's chair, do a little dance, then turn her head and smile, and my mother would proclaim, "Kitty needs to come in!" jump from her chair, and let Kitty into the house. Mind, I could get this vegetating elderly person to do nothing, and Kitty with a little prancing and a smile got exactly what was needed. After being let in, Kitty would be fed. "Kitty wants to be fed every time she comes in," I was told, and a heap of cat food was poured into Kitty's pan. (When no one was looking I poured most of it back into the bag.) After Kitty was fed, mother would beg and plead until Kitty hopped into her lap. She held the cat, rocked the cat, sang to the cat. The cat would look at me and grin, meaning "See how favored I am?" The cat functioned as a hearing aid since mother could tell by the cat's ears and head where there was activity. "Oh, Tommy is in the utility room!" "Oh, Tommy has gone upstairs!" "Oh, Tommy is at the stove!" The cat would sit in her lap for hours each day. Kitty brightened the last years of her life, and in my opinion added at least a year to her life.
 
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sooo

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The cat would look at me and grin, meaning "See how favored I am?"

:rofl:

But Tom, animals aren't really intelligent, they're just instinctive low life forms.

Kills me when I hear that, and from much of the scientific community too.

If we had half the senses of a cat or dog we'd be superhuman.
 

anemos

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:rofl:
..... and from much of the scientific community too.

:rolleyes: cognitivists .... There is a shift towards exploring emotions and affects- thanks god- and animals are well equipped in that domain. Empathy, imo, is another kind of consciousness. Our ancient brain the one we share with other mammal and animals cause us troubles but there is the core of our humanness too... maybe I exaggerate a bit but I don't like to think we are just an intelligent computer.
 

Tohpol

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:rofl:

But Tom, animals aren't really intelligent, they're just instinctive low life forms.

Kills me when I hear that, and from much of the scientific community too.

If we had half the senses of a cat or dog we'd be superhuman.


:D Yes, it's so tempting to think that animals are thinking like us ...We anthropomorphize all the time - I know I do. But maybe they do think in a rudimentary way beyond just food and attention.

There seems to be that obvious fixed, and supremely honed instinctive awareness which makes up the animal pool...Then there are also pack animals - especially domesticated animals that also seem to exhibit quite an advanced collective emotional awareness that shows forms of thinking which, though not self aware, certainly show enormously interesting thinking patterns. Apes, dogs, cats, parrots seem to fall into that category. And then there are elephants, whales and dolphins that are still providing data about their neurology and awareness suggesting something quite different to the purely instinctive and more akin to an "advanced" mammalian intelligence.

Then of course, we mustn't forget Anna Breytenbach and others who appear to have picked up on a way to tap into this super-instinct/emotion/thought processes and access how animals communicate.

There's still so much we don't understand about our furry friends.
 
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sooo

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It really does depend on how we define intelligence, and the larger part of the scientific community suffers from, as Maria called it, cognitivists. Yet those with deep relationships with other than human animal forms realize a deep inner processing, a cognition combined with emotions, and sometimes a way of dealing with things a whole lot more logically than humans would. Mojo, for instance, knew he was leaving me, days before I found out. He'd sit in his big chair in the garage, just looking at me, speaking through those big eyes. I'd go over and sit on the arm, rubbing his head, and ask, what is it Mojo, what are you trying to tell me? A few short days later I understood.

A dog walks by a stalk of grass and sniffs it, and could identify which dog, cat or wild animal had marked that stalk, 30, 40 of them sometimes. We simply see the stalk as our dogs stops to pee on it. A dog's hearing extends far beyond the reach of a human's evolved ear, their ears turn to tune into frequencies beyond our own. Cat's likewise, plus cats possess uncanny perceptions that escape us entirely. We'll never know how much deeper, but cat people know they have somethings we do not. Senses must be processed, as processing is cognition. Fact is, we do not know what they know. Likewise for wild species, and in ways more so, because their survival depends upon it. As some people are more tuned in than others, some horses, dogs, cats, birds are also tuned in to the human's world. Some are more sociable with humans than others, and they use that intelligence to whatever advantage they can, including playing tricks. Some animals are pranksters, such as coyotes. Chacta, one of our horses here, will steal your hat, even lift your wallet from your back pocket, he'll intentionally divert your attention, require your attention, display jealousy, indignant attitudes, loyalty, dominance, submission, affection and rejection, to name only a few. Not all of a given species demonstrate these kindred connections to humans, which means that we are not only talking about species and breed but individuality. Perhaps personality is a wrong term, which would suggest anthropomorphic projection, but they're as individual as humans are, which also demonstrates individual intelligence.
 

Trojina

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I remembered a poem Hilary posted in the poetry thread.

Here it is


Golden Retrievals
by Mark Doty



Fetch? Balls and sticks capture my attention
seconds at a time. Catch? I don’t think so.
Bunny, tumbling leaf, a squirrel who’s–oh
joy–actually scared. Sniff the wind, then



I’m off again: muck, pond, ditch, residue
of any thrillingly dead thing. And you?
Either you’re sunk in the past, half our walk,
thinking of what you never can bring back,



or else you’re off in some fog concerning
–tomorrow, is that what you call it? My work:
to unsnare time’s warp (and woof!), retrieving,
my haze-headed friend, you. This shining bark,



a Zen master’s bronzy gong, calls you here,
entirely, now: Bow-wow, bow-wow, bow-wow​
 
S

sooo

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Let the dogs out of their camper/horse trailer to 'doodoo their thing' while I fed horses and cleaned pens and corral. Time to go inside, it was so hot, I let them inside my space to cool down a few, which is all they gave me before wanting back in their familiar home away from home. I had a short time to snap a few shots, not enough to be artistic but enough to capture their big stare.

Calamity (that's my shirt she's leaning on.. not supposed to up on the couch but how could I say no?)
DSC04149_zps9f88a05c.jpg


Faith (a sweetie)
DSC04148_zps70971481.jpg


Sky (high strung and ready to run with the horses, a cowdog like Jake)
DSC04150_zps98e44948.jpg
 

anemos

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We anthropomorphize all the time - I know I do.

Yes... me 'guilty' aswell :p. even in this forums , talking about hexagrams. I guess we need that to understand, make sense of the world around us.. its the knowledge with have about ourselves and use it as a base for further reasoning. It has an utilitarian function

It really does depend on how we define intelligence...

Exactly ! Part of our intelligence relies on the very same structures. What I found interesting is the traits you mention- very close to survival instincts or behaviors make survival more possible.
 

anemos

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I remembered a poem Hilary posted in the poetry thread.

Here it is


Golden Retrievals
by Mark Doty


He has written a wonderful book " Dog Years" about dogs, love and life- have only read extracts and gifted the book to a friend for a moment of loss.
 

Tohpol

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Dog Faints during reunion

"Everyone can see the affection dog owners have for their pets because humans have many ways of expressing it. When it comes to the affection dogs have for owners, though, things get a little trickier. People who are familiar with how dogs behave can spot certain things, but there is a world of people out there who wouldn’t know a tail wag from a doggy twerk.

In a video posted by Rebecca Ehalt, we get a firsthand look at just how emotional dogs can be. The dog in question hadn’t seen the woman in the video for two years. When they finally reunited, this happened:

[video=youtube_share;rp03AorAWLY]http://youtu.be/rp03AorAWLY[/video]​

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/soci...t-happened-dog-after-unexpected-reunion-video

HIlarious dog but I found the humans a bit nauseating...lol
 
S

sooo

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"10/19 Well done. You have a good eye for picking up a dog's cues."

I think it's a terrible score, however I'm not going to beat myself up over it. Not only is knowing the dog important but the person it's responding to, and their relationship is equally important. The easy ones are when the dog is reacting with another dog. Then their body language is clear. The human reactions can't be read without knowing something about who that human is to them, a stranger, a threat, a playful owner.

I think the dog in Topal's video is displaying several emotions: anger at being left behind (where have you been! Bad girl!), crying but mixed between happy and unhappy, shock, and rolling on her side I think looked dangerously close to a heart attack or stroke, and then on her back, confused submission. I didn't think it was funny. The humans should have been quiet and let the dog come to them and adjust, before talking. Talking, squealing, laughing all make a dog nervous, just what the pooch did not need. I agree with Topal's impression of them.

Interesting though, both posts.

In one of the related videos, a dog bared his/her teeth at the owner's reprimand, which is typically thought of as a sign of aggression, but it's actually a sign of nervousness, and dogs do that to another dog sometimes. Another dog of course understands, but humans will often panic at the display.
 

anemos

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such a helpful test! thanks ! got 10/19 lucky guess but the image below was the one I knew !! Loki's 'normal' position when we approach her :rolleyes:
15-submission.jpg


what disturbed me in the video was the laughs. I understand the owners joy to see again their dog but it felt a bit inconsiderable in my eyes. re the everyday separations, I have read you need to calm down the dog and I have observe myself how my own feelings interfere and its not easy to make the dog understand its not a big deal.

Bruce, now you take care of those dogs, how you make them understand that you are the new pack leader ? Is it confusing for them or is a matter of training ? They seem to be comfortable around you- if I read their eyes right. I'm asking because my concern is whether I'm doing the right thing letting another person in the family walking the dog some days during the week or its confusing for the dog.
 

Annamaria

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DSC00304.jpg Here comes a photo of my children's pets that i take care of now and then :) - read most of the time-, they are miniature lop and we call them Sötnos and Piff..., they are Brothers btw :)
 
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sooo

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Bruce, now you take care of those dogs, how you make them understand that you are the new pack leader ? Is it confusing for them or is a matter of training ? They seem to be comfortable around you- if I read their eyes right. I'm asking because my concern is whether I'm doing the right thing letting another person in the family walking the dog some days during the week or its confusing for the dog.

In a family, or a trusted friend, there may be a primal pack leader, ie. their owner, but in the absence of the owner, another human who takes care of them should become their pack leader. It's important they understand what that means or it can and will confuse the dogs and be unhealthy for them, requiring correcting the dogs when the primary leader returns.

When "D" stopped by last night to pick them up, she came inside and was very happy and grateful. Her dogs were calm, relaxed but happy. She knows this means that their time spent with me was healthy.

As the pictures showed, each dog had their own distinct "personality" or nature, yet they'd all react to certain things I'd do or not do. As soon as I'd speak, they'd get excited, which meant for two of them, they'd come to me and their nervousness would be expressed with need for attention. The little one would lick and jump, and if I'd look at her too long she'd bark; all purely nervous reactions. Faith would require petting and reassurance. Sky, on the other hand, would go off and hide somewhere, also a nervous reaction. Some people (owners of neurotic dogs especially) habitually yak at their dogs a lot, as though they were people. But don't you also get nervous when someone talks to you non-stop, especially if you can't talk back in any other way but to bark or some other kind of nervous dog bodily reaction? (sigh.. people can be so ignorant when it comes to dogs) So my leadership was best shown by my own natural calm and quiet countenance, whereupon they relaxed and gradually felt calm inside this house which was strange to them.

Yesterday I was gone all morning after letting them out and feeding them in their very fancy horse trailer/camper that their mom leaves here. By noon, when I returned, it was already hitting 100 degrees F, and upon letting them out again to do potty, I didn't have the heart to follow mom's instructions and put them back in the trailer, so again I let them inside to cool off, where they wound up spending the rest of the afternoon. I gave them water, talked very little, as they'd become excited at my voice, and eventually laid on the couch for a nap. They followed suit, laying on the cool tile floor for a nap, except Calamity, who persisted in climbing up and snuggling. If I let her, she'd lick me until there was nothing left on the couch but my bare bones! So I had to stop her, but with kind firmness, almost no voice, which would only get them all excited. In short, a pack leader calms the pack through his or her own calmness. That's different from simply being passive.

During the early night before, they began barking, probably at a rabbit or some distant coyote, too far for a human to hear. I got up, got dressed and went out to the trailer. With a firm, but not angry command told them, "NO barking!" They looked at me, and once more for good measure, repeated the command, and closed the opened door over the screen door; not slammed, but closed firmly. There wasn't a peep from them the rest of the night. By morning, when I went to let them out to do business and to feed them, there were no tails between their legs, no fear, just acceptance of their limitations.

Unless a person wants a one man dog, such as a "working dog" for a blind or impaired owner, it's a must that they teach others who will be caring for the dog, such as someone who walks them, what being a pack leader means. Fortunately for me, "D" is a good and experienced pack leader. Fortunately for D and her dogs, so am I. It made it easy for all concerned. Happy dogs, happy pack leaders, happy neighbors.

(btw, your mailbox has been full for the last few days)
 

anemos

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That's really helpful !! thank you! We try to keep some constants to avoid confusion. In the beginning when someone else would take her for a walk she would came to me with wide open eyes and it felt either confusion or kind of seeking for reassurance...

If I let her, she'd lick me until there was nothing left on the couch but my bare bones!

:rofl: I know what you mean... fortunately she has reduce a lot that... Barking is still a problem . Her breed , i have read , are overprotective towards the family they live so when a stranger pass by I try to calm her saying "ok, now stop" ... The signs I observe show a bit of neglect from previous owners so I guess its not as easy as having it from a puppy and teach her. Its a kind of 37.1 situation.

In short, a pack leader calms the pack through his or her own calmness.

Leaning to do that :)
thanks again


( mailbox is clean now)
 
S

sooo

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Controlling any breed's barking is not difficult, but it sometimes requires patience and perseverance. Keeping in mind, not all barking is bad, part of a good dog's function is to warn, and sometimes more aggressively. It's the unnecessary barking we want to cure. Mojo had a good deal of watch dog in his chow breeding, and it took awhile to teach him to distinguish a possible intruder from a lady walking by while pushing her baby in a carriage, but he did learn. It just took patiently working with him. Caesar has it down, and it's not at all difficult to learn and employ.

Here are a few Dog Whisperer videos on the subject. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dog+whisperer;+barking
 

anemos

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very reassuring. Maybe I'm expecting results too soon. Truth is she behaves very well with neighbors now so she has start to discriminate. Both dog and owner needs their time :).... will check the links more thoroughly

Thank you !!!
 
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sooo

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Possibly helpful is to understand that we're not just trying to change or modify a dog's behavior, but to change their state of mind... dog mind, which is much more direct and immediate than a developed human mind. The change must be instant, at the moment the dog begins to show a sign of whatever is causing the undesired barking. That often happens even before barking begins. If we can recognize the state of mind before the barking begins, and act quickly on it, the dog will not want to bark. That can be a sign of tension, a staring looking, the sound of a change to follow which the dog objects to. The correction is best if administered the way a pack leader dog will correct another dog. You may notice that Cesar will push or poke quickly at a dog's hind quarter. That is what a dog does to correct another dog. A human hand should represent a dog's mouth, and you'll notice a leader dog will use his or her snout to push another dog's hind quarter to correct it. This is how dog's communicate. They don't stand there and talk a language to the dog or lecture it, as we humans typically do. We must become dogs to communicate with dogs, or else we treat them as a person, and they are not human and do not process as a human processes. A sound is more effective than words, such as Cht! or even "no", or "hey" along with a hand movement: pointing, poking with the hand shaped like a dog's mouth, is something a dog can learn to recognize. But the change is instant and instinctive, it is not rational and not a discussion. Dogs will instantly shift their state of mind without thinking about it. This is the method to use, it's a dog's world. We do things all the time that only reenforce an undesirable behavior, like petting a dog to calm him/her down. All we're doing then is rewarding the dog for that wrong behavior. Most common human error. Talking to the dog to correct him/her, only succeeding in making the dog more nervous and confused. They are not little people and it's anti-productive to treat them as such.
 

Trojina

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[video=youtube;_Y218yxA0Kk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_Y218yxA0Kk#t=8[/video]
 

Trojina

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Way back Maria said

Yes... me 'guilty' aswell . even in this forums , talking about hexagrams. I guess we need that to understand, make sense of the world around us.. its the knowledge with have about ourselves and use it as a base for further reasoning. It has an utilitarian function

Don't feel guilty. First Yi was written for humans by humans so anthropomorphising Yi is pretty natural and unavoidable since we have conversations with it about lost keys and dogs and wotnot. Us humans are animals too and we understand the way we can understand.

Second if we had never given animals human voices imagine how dull the world would be without all those fairy stories and myths and legends. Not to mention cartoons and so on.

We wouldn't have 'The Wind in the willows', we wouldn't have the Narnia books by CS Lewis, we wouldn't have Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll....we wouldn't have innumerable stories from all peoples of the world involving animals who speak. The very first books for children involve talking animals


It's how we relate to animals and often how we feel empathy for them. Naturally because we are animals too and not so far apart and know what it is to feel pain and to feel affection.

So while we have to respect the nature of the animal as different to our own and not try to crush or distort it so that it suffers lets not beat ourselves up for relating to them imaginatively. It's made some great stories and it's fun and it's often funny.
 

anemos

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We do things all the time that only reenforce an undesirable behavior, like petting a dog to calm him/her down. All we're doing then is rewarding the dog for that wrong behavior. Most common human error. Talking to the dog to correct him/her, only succeeding in making the dog more nervous and confused. They are not little people and it's anti-productive to treat them as such.

Very true... its when anthropomorphism gets in the way. Did that mistake a few times but then read the correct behavior but even then, it takes some effort to change our minds and think before act... it can be a very impulsive reaction.
 

anemos

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Don't feel guilty. First Yi was written for humans by humans so anthropomorphising Yi is pretty natural and unavoidable since we have conversations with it about lost keys and dogs and wotnot. Us humans are animals too and we understand the way we can understand.

nah, was half kidding... there is a necessity to do that, as you said also in your post. Have you noticed how some people get upset - very upset- when hear the words call them "human-animal" ? I fail to understand why ? like they are threatened of something and become kind of defensive..
 

RindaR

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_20141121_143753.jpg This is my Lucy-cat resting in one of her favorite spots.
 

RindaR

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She is also known as Miss Fuzzy-britches.
 
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sooo

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Awww. Every pet deserves a pet name. Jake has inherited Mojo's - Dusty Buckets. Funny but it seems they know it's a form of our affection. Except for Candy the mare; I just call her the bitch. But I think she likes it too; she's just too bitchy to tell.
 

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