Dream Interpretation: 12 unchanging, then 52.1.2.3.6 to 19

[poised]

I'd really like some perspective on this from the wizards of Clarity:

Long dream this morning in which I am going from place to place seeking something or someone, a recurring theme for me. My increasingly-less-significant other (ILSO) is with me part of the time. We arrive at a murky place and someone pops out of the gloom holding up The Devil tarot card. We are both shocked and saddened, drift apart.

I am then at a sunny resort looking place making myself at home, but still the feeling tone is uncertain and rather gloomy. A rather grim man is there in the background, dark hair, unsmiling. Feels like a manager or supervisor of the place. (The Devil?) Sun sparkling on water in little bay dotted with tiny islands as far as the eye can see. People and animals are playing in the water when the tide comes in with a huge rush, almost a tsunami but without the wave, just racing water. People and pets are swept off the islands, some make it to shore all right. I look around desperate to find Herb, my long-dead cat companion of 19 years. "He's gone," the dark man says. Others on shore are looking for loved ones, shouting, running, crying. The dark narrator intones, "they're all gone. They cannot make it if they have asthma, dementia, and..." his voice drones on...I wake up, horrified.

I felt that some unstoppable flood of disease and mayhem is sweeping over the world, bringing down the aged, infirm, diseased, weak. And dead cats will die again?

Last night, my ILSO brought some paperwork over regarding the drug ring we know is operating from our very nice garden apartment complex. (The Devil?) This brings very unsavory and downright scary characters to the place. We have complained to management, as have others, and also the police, but no-one can do anything about it, or is willing to. ILSO and I have decided to form a neighborhood committee as get other tenants involved. I do feel apprehensive about it, don't really want to get killed. Or die in a flood of illegal drugs (I don't even take legal ones). Or get caught in the crossfire. I don't want to live in fear!

ILSO is totally fried from his job, is praying to get laid off. Meanwhile, I see less and less of him and enjoy less and less the time we spend together. In the past, I would have ended a relationship at this stage, but we cling together as friends with a lot of common bonds. I am emotionally attached, that head-heart disagreement.

Before I went to sleep, I asked myself how in the world I got into this situation. I'm generally upbeat, positive, creative, not very social, and the men in my life have been more like me than ILSO is...he's a "manly fishing-hunting-camping man" Plus, I've lived in very nice, safe places. This looks like one, but it isn't.

So I asked the I Ching this morning what the dream meant and got 12 Unchanging. What an unexpected answer. Stagnation? I dug around for a good match to the dream, but standstill, stopping, saying no is maybe what I should do about it, but does not explain the dream. I don't think. All that rushing water...maybe my emotions?

I asked again, for help understanding 12. Answer was
52.1.2.3.5.6 > 19 Phew! AS I understand it, with this many changing lines, I should just pay attention to the lines.

52.1 Karcher: "Not yet letting go."

52.2 Bradford: "Bringing his legs to a halt, stopping to look around, he’s learned, to his amazement, that he treads an inferior path. His heart does not want him to make this discovery..... He could remain swept along, as if by peer suction," Absolutely the way it is. Thanks for that! But getting off this path would mean moving as well as ending the relationship, not financially feasible now.

52.3 Ah, the heart of the matter. Karcher: "Bound. One's limit. Assigned-to ones loins. Adversity smothers the heart...." "Loins: ...respect, honor, work toward a distant aim; money belt." And, of course, pelvis. We were very happy with each other when the relationship included sex. And very creative together, working on a book project. No more of that loins stuff because of his health problem. Heart, according to Karcher, "...center of being; seat of mind's images and affections...source of desires, intentions, will." My creativity thudded to the floor as I had to redefine relationship. But I am having a hard time seeing that in this dream.

52.6 I always think of this line as "stop stopping." Magnanimous bounding, says Karcher. Yes, from somewhere, I must find a well, river, flood of creativity again. The concept is making my cry.

All that water, my dead cat...well, I guess that could be explained in the emotions and loins.

I'd really appreciate your insight and discussion. What am I missing, oh wise ones? I'm wondering whether I should disengage from trying to stop the drug business? I wish I could see that in the dream. But no.

 

[meng]

Hi poised,

I don't have a wizard diploma, but I am fascinated by dreams and their interpretations, so let's see.

First, rather than thinking of 12 as stagnation or standstill, consider that heaven and earth trigrams are moving away from each other, in contrast to 11 where they move toward each other. This immediately led me to consider that creating distance between you and these undesirables is the best course of action. I think they manifest in your dream as Jung's Shadow, awakening some old losses (like your old cat) and sacrifices you've made to be able to live happily and in peace. 52 with all those lines can show the way to dispel the angst and worry, you're experiencing. I find the particular line "He/she goes into the courtyard and does not see his people" to try to keep out of the druggies' business and way; it really could get you killed. Even knowing one of them could possibly open the door to real trouble. In that sense the dream could have been a serious warning. If they find you snitched on them, it could be a nightmare.

I would interpret it to either move to a better place, or keep to your own business where you are, but I don't see much peace and happiness in that.

I couldn't help but make a possible connection between being flooded, the drug dealers, and the growing distance between ILSO and yourself, which you've mentioned. It seems as though your world is coming apart, yet the advice to be still within.

Just some thoughts. I wish you well with this. I know how disruptive to living peacefully living with scurvy thugs next door can be. I chose to move and don't regret it.

 

[poised]

Grooviness R Us

I don't have a wizard diploma, but I am fascinated by dreams and their interpretations, so let's see.

So now you admit to being the minister of grooviness. Most excellent, meng. I'm definitely consulting with the right wizard.

, rather than thinking of 12 as stagnation or standstill, consider that heaven and earth trigrams are moving away from each other, ...immediately led me to consider that creating distance between you and these undesirables is the best course of action. I think they manifest in your dream as Jung's Shadow, awakening some old losses (like your old cat) and sacrifices you've made to be able to live happily and in peace.

Ah, the Shadow knows...eh eh eh...And yes, creating distance is highly desirable. Happiness often comes with distancing self from source of aggravation. "Freeway Therapy," Joan Didion called it. Works really well for me. Long talk with apartment manager this morning; she agrees with you, "just stay away from the baddies."

52 with all those lines can show the way to dispel the angst and worry, you're experiencing. I find the particular line "He/she goes into the courtyard and does not see his people" to try to keep out of the druggies' business and way; it really could get you killed. Even knowing one of them could possibly open the door to real trouble. In that sense the dream could have been a serious warning. If they find you snitched on them, it could be a nightmare.

Indeed. Nightmare for sure. The serious warning has been taken. See no evil in the courtyard from now on. If possible.

couldn't help but make a possible connection between being flooded, the drug dealers, and the growing distance between ILSO and yourself, which you've mentioned. It seems as though your world is coming apart, yet the advice to be still within..

Yes, the world coming apart is how the dream felt. And life felt.

I spent a year at Esalen in Big Sur doing gestalt therapy with Fritz Perls. In his dreamwork, everything in the dream IS the dreamer. IOW, I'm both people walking through the dark neighborhood, the Devil, the drug dealers, the drowning people and animals, the dead cat, the dark narrator intoning bad news in the background. I'm coming apart. Yep, the shadow.

It would take awhile to work through this menagerie with gestalt, but it has a certain familiar feel to it. I'm sort of the miracle child of a family of alcoholics (never liked alcohol or drugs), surrounded by the devil (addiction) and people drowning in their own STUFF, which of course one feels, at age two, is your fault. So I may be taking on some familiar misplaced responsibility for all of these bad actors in the 'hood.

Meanwhile, ILSO invited me to Glacier for the long full-moon weekend. Hope that's "peace." Also looking forward to dancing with bears. Reminds me of Matthew Fox's book, On Becoming a Musical, Mystical Bear. I had just decided that God was a verb when I ran across this book, and Fox thinks so too. "Peace" for me is always in motion. Sitting around in heaven staring at a static God never appealed.

some thoughts. I wish you well with this. I know how disruptive to living peacefully living with scurvy thugs next door can be. I chose to move and don't regret it.

Down with scurvy thugs. Some creative denial called for, I simply will not notice them. They cease to exist as of now.
Many thanks for your good thoughts and good wishes, meng. Hope your long weekend is splendid.

 

[meng]

I spent a year at Esalen in Big Sur doing gestalt therapy with Fritz Perls. In his dreamwork, everything in the dream IS the dreamer. IOW, I'm both people walking through the dark neighborhood, the Devil, the drug dealers, the drowning people and animals, the dead cat, the dark narrator intoning bad news in the background. I'm coming apart. Yep, the shadow.

It would take awhile to work through this menagerie with gestalt, but it has a certain familiar feel to it. I'm sort of the miracle child of a family of alcoholics (never liked alcohol or drugs), surrounded by the devil (addiction) and people drowning in their own STUFF, which of course one feels, at age two, is your fault. So I may be taking on some familiar misplaced responsibility for all of these bad actors in the 'hood.

Meanwhile, ILSO invited me to Glacier for the long full-moon weekend. Hope that's "peace." Also looking forward to dancing with bears. Reminds me of Matthew Fox's book, On Becoming a Musical, Mystical Bear. I had just decided that God was a verb when I ran across this book, and Fox thinks so too. "Peace" for me is always in motion. Sitting around in heaven staring at a static God never appealed.



Down with scurvy thugs. Some creative denial called for, I simply will not notice them. They cease to exist as of now.
Many thanks for your good thoughts and good wishes, meng. Hope your long weekend is splendid.

I also typically view everything in the dream as the dreamer, and that goes for the waking life as well. If I meet someone who makes more than a superficial impression, which 'talks to' me in some seemingly significant way, it is a reflection of my inner life. If I meet a woman, for instance, and I am attracted to her, she represents my anima, and if she is a malevolent presence, and arouses dark forces: anger, hate, fear, hurt - while they may exist in Freud's world, they also exist in Jung's world; "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together." Sounds so 60's. Today I met another 'new' neighbor at a familiar neighbor's place; a very powerful personally, who has lived a powerful life. I'd describe him, at 47, as nearly 99% YANG. I also noticed, while he could easily control the direction of conversation, he seemed to lack the capacity to listen. When I walked back to my place, I had an unsettled feeling in me, as though I recognized some part of me in 'creative denial'. It sucks to blame yourself, worse then to blame someone or something else. The most valuable fruit is bittersweet. The most valuable woman is a tart, but a respectful tart; that's Saa-weeet!

Groovy, baby.

 

[poised]

I Ching According to Alice

I also typically view everything in the dream as the dreamer, and that goes for the waking life as well. If I meet someone who makes more than a superficial impression, which 'talks to' me in some seemingly significant way, it is a reflection of my inner life. If I meet a woman, for instance, and I am attracted to her, she represents my anima, and if she is a malevolent presence, and arouses dark forces: anger, hate, fear, hurt - while they may exist in Freud's world, they also exist in Jung's world; "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together." Sounds so 60's.

Hi meng: yes, I am still the walrus. You?

The weekend in Montana with ILSO was powerful in a good way. Removing the IL from ILSO, at least for now. We had a house high above a lake looking at islands. The only tsunami was sort of a wave of calm. His inner calm. Serenity didn't sweep me out to sea, but insulated me from the what-if's in my head. A very good thing. I absolutely understand why SO's patients get better.

Hexagram 12: We separated ourselves from the tension in the 'hood. We kept to ourselves on a mountain. 52. Away from the adversity, I found a new heart-centered way of being with SO.

And to top it off, we came home to find a card from local law enforcement at SO's door. They ARE working on the case and one scurvy thug was arrested while we were gone. Ta dum.

I met another 'new' neighbor at a familiar neighbor's place; a very powerful personally, who has lived a powerful life. I'd describe him, at 47, as nearly 99% YANG. I also noticed, while he could easily control the direction of conversation, he seemed to lack the capacity to listen. When I walked back to my place, I had an unsettled feeling in me, as though I recognized some part of me in 'creative denial'. It sucks to blame yourself, worse then to blame someone or something else. The most valuable fruit is bittersweet. The most valuable woman is a tart, but a respectful tart; that's Saa-weeet!

Groovy, baby

99% yang? So medieval They can do nothing but hurl blame and shame, she said tartly. And, oh yes, they can clank.

When the men on the chessboard get up and tell you where to go And you've just had some kind of mushroom, and your mind is moving low...Go ask Alice, I think she'll know....

 

[meng]

Well that's an interesting take and report on 12-52; quite literal. Sounds beautiful, Big Sky Country. Passed through it a couple of times. Never breathed a fresher breath of air than in Montana.

In spite of 12's dark reputation, I sometimes find it to be a relief, a get-away from obligations and responsibilities. Peace is a poor name for 11, imo, since it's actually a busy and literally productive time (lotta copulatin' goin' on). 12 seems to me to be more the retreat in the mountains kind of experience or feeling. Nice, thanks for sharing that.

Yeah, he's medieval for sure; says he's going to be Michael's angel when he passes over - adding, "..and I can do it too!" I'm not sure yet from where that steam is being generated, and I learn from the critters, that silence is nature's way of surviving. So I listen and ask questions mostly, during pow-wows. Both neighbors are high strung and strong willed. I'm generally considered laid back and fairly quiet, midnight rambles notwithstanding. Ha! the gal listens intently, and after 10 minutes says, you know, I haven't understood a word you said, and we laugh. Intellectual development is not what her daddy had in mind for her. My friend is a lesbian, mated some 22 years, so the 11 state is generated in-large because of a connection on the inner plain, plus they're both, she and her friend, Sagittarius - my opposite; so energy is strong but volatile. I am glad and grateful to return to my home alone, that is, the both of us.

Have you followed Alice in the later, almost cult version of quantum physics through the "Down the Rabbit Hole" - What the bleep do we know?" series? Interesting ideas from a quantum perspective. Kinda like a quantum physics candy store. Thought provoking at the least.

Good to hear back from your own down the rabbit hole experience, from atop big sky lake.

goo goo g'joob

 

[poised]

Otoh

Well that's an interesting take and report on 12-52; quite literal. Sounds beautiful, Big Sky Country. Passed through it a couple of times. Never breathed a fresher breath of air than in Montana.

In spite of 12's dark reputation, I sometimes find it to be a relief, a get-away from obligations and responsibilities. Peace is a poor name for 11, imo, since it's actually a busy and literally productive time (lotta copulatin' goin' on). 12 seems to me to be more the retreat in the mountains kind of experience or feeling. Nice, thanks for sharing that.

Fascinating, meng. I'll never again be upset by throwing 12. I went to my Alanon group yesterday, bunch of smart and thoroughly therapized people, and for the first time in a hundred years of attending, I actually understood Serenity. What a concept! Maybe with all that gemini, I live in yangland most of the time. Feels almost threatening to come off it. But not this time.

, he's medieval for sure; says he's going to be Michael's angel when he passes over - adding, "..and I can do it too!" I'm not sure yet from where that steam is being generated, and I learn from the critters, that silence is nature's way of surviving.

WEll, maybe he can. Who knows? Intention is powerful. Critters are now. Did I tell you we had a black bear for company? SO felt it's presence. I did not. On the third day, we saw it on the driveway, a silent bear surviving in our midst. After we saw it, it left.

I listen and ask questions mostly, during pow-wows. Both neighbors are high strung and strong willed. I'm generally considered laid back and fairly quiet, midnight rambles notwithstanding. Ha! the gal listens intently, and after 10 minutes says, you know, I haven't understood a word you said, and we laugh. Intellectual development is not what her daddy had in mind for her. My friend is a lesbian, mated some 22 years, so the 11 state is generated in-large because of a connection on the inner plain, plus they're both, she and her friend, Sagittarius - my opposite; so energy is strong but volatile. I am glad and grateful to return to my home alone, that is, the both of us.

So dynamic to be a gemini, we're never alone, nor free of the insistent other side(s) of the conversation."OTOH" is my middle name. Fascinating, that's what we are, at least whenever we touch down for a few minutes. Versatile. Many minded. Better than mini.

Have you followed Alice in the later, almost cult version of quantum physics through the "Down the Rabbit Hole" - What the bleep do we know?" series? Interesting ideas from a quantum perspective. Kinda like a quantum physics candy store. Thought provoking at the least.

Good to hear back from your own down the rabbit hole experience, from atop big sky lake.

Yep, my genius-alcoholic Libra son and I got interested a few years ago when he came home to sober up and paste his life back together. It was stormy for a week, power went out, we read Lisa Randall's Warped Passages: Unraveling the Mysteries of the Universe's Hidden Dimensions by candlelight with feet up on a wood stove in the kitchen, adding yet another dimension to this wonderful book. Randall is at Cern, physics prof at Harvard, and the girl can write. (Good thing, because like your friend's father, mine was not primarily interested in my intellectual development. He did reward leadership skills, however, more up his yang alley.)

When power returned we got What the Bleep from the library and enjoyed it. Don't recall whether we saw the Rabbit Hole, but I can catch up on YouTube, where the whole 2+ hour show is available. Will see if SO would like to watch with me. Betting not.

I asked this morning, "is the relationship solid?" And got 61 unchanging. Seems to me that it is, considering the events and feeling level (inner truth) of the long weekend. My daughter noticed how "harmonious and relaxed" we were together when we stopped at her house on the way home. It's all good, meng. (Google keeps changing your name to "menu")

 

[meng]

Very cool, very 19.

Serenity with 11, I like. One can be creatively engaged while serene.

Um, I suggest "what the bleep" NOT be a good date flick. In fact, it's difficult in any mixed setting because people perceive differently, from loco to enlightening. If one is fully engaged and another is cracking bad jokes, it's disjointed. That's been my experience, and mistakes. Discussing it after watched alone would be safer; just use a safe word or something.

61, lot of discussions here on that. In this case, I concede to Brad's view, it is a local event, a distinct connection, real voices.

Bear, whoa. Only personal meets with bear were in CO. On occasion my son would be held in the school after school, until the area was cleared on wandering bears. But we only stayed there a year. Never met one face to face, don't have a desire to meet one, any more than accidentally stepping on a rattlesnake. But that's life in the real world. Ya makes your choices, then ya lives 'em. Life dun gauruntee nuthin'; and we're lucky enough to get life on those terms.

 

[meng]

oh, menu huh... oh, and I got 27.6 today... :bag:

 

[tim555]

The dream sounds like you are missing something in your life and perhaps keep feeling a sense of disappointment at not getting it. You might wanna plug in some of the symbols in your dream at dreambible.com. Always helps me when I get a weird one.

 

[poised]

Dreaming the dream forward

Thanks tim555. :bows:

dreambible.com is indeed a fascinating dream site. Bookmarked it. Some of their descriptions of things in my dream (lake, rushing water, dead cat) affirm what meng said...I'm feeling like my life is coming apart.

And, in fact, in the three weeks since the dream, my relationship has unravelled from Significant Other (SO) to Increasing Less Significant Other (ILSO) to just plain Other. Hurray to that, tho there are still some emotional ties. But I don't care so darned much, am closer to a new heart-centered way of being with myself.

 

[poised]

Updated Understanding of hexagram 12

When I had this dream, four months ago, hexagram 12 made little sense to me. Rereading this thread again, I find that Bradford's translation makes perfect sense.

I saw it then but was not ready to acknowledge how devastatingly correct it was in interpreting the dream. Separating means Separating.

Bradford: http://www.hermetica.info
GUA 12, PI3, SEPARATING
Heaven and earth do not interact Separating
The noble young one, accordingly,
conserves virtue and avoids trouble
Not allowing himself luxury in the form of compensation
A sacred kind of sadness and heartbreaking beauty accompany the fall. But there is not much here for a sage or great leader. They may become uninvolved and withdraw to conserve their resources, not taking bait, not giving wrongness something to rally and live for.
12.0 Separating*
oneself from inferior people*
Those not worth the young noble’s loyalty Greatness departs, smallness arrives
Greatness is done here. A world goes numb as the work of our glorious progress is left to decay and gravity.
12.M, Key Words
Disjunction, discontinuity, disengagement, pulling apart, alienation, indifference Denial, negation, division, schism,... dissonance, disharmony, discord, Non-participation, non-cooperation, negating and the need to negate,

A bit of a language problem for me. How can I, an aging woman, relate to actually being the sage, great leader, or noble young one? (Though I would have in the past.) Still, the meaning is clear if I were able to see it clearly. And if I'd been able to look beyond his good looks and beguiling ways, I would have been much more clear on his inability to or disinterest in perfecting his innate speaking skills to the level of giving a good TEDTalk when we were through. I can do it, but I'm absolutely the wrong person to do this publicity. And that was all he had to do, publicize the work that I performed. He refused to work at it. Said he would, but never did.

The Devil tarot card, which appeared at the beginning of the dream was another entirely accurate clue.
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/learn/meanings/devil.shtml

The relationship is totally over, as it should have been months ago. It was based almost entirely on sex for both of us, which I experienced as not just physical, but creative energy. Without that energy, the creative process was such tedium for me, that the project we began together will never get done. With a different collaborator, intellectual energy added to my creativity would have moved the project. But his strong suit is sexual energy, and that worked for me. I allowed myself to have luxury in the form of compensation Second chakra stuff, sexual-creative. Can be a powerful combo, as people in Hollywood know.

Then again, in Hexagram 52, asking for clarification of 12, Bradford nails it :

52.2 Bradford: "Bringing his legs to a halt, stopping to look around, he’s learned, to his amazement, that he treads an inferior path. His heart does not want him to make this discovery..... He could remain swept along, as if by peer suction,

Peer suction* indeed swept me along, the racing water in the dream that sucked up and destroyed everything in its path. My heart did not want to make this discovery. But others warned me from the beginning that former significant other was totally wrong for me. Inferior, not in personal terms, but in terms of being a professional partner for me.

I see it so very clearly today, after not speaking with him for a month.

Apparently I needed to go through this process, from May 23 to September 25, to fully accept the very clear meaning of the dream.

Huge thanks to meng for helping me take the steps to get here.:bows:


*Peer Suction is such a brilliant term, it could be a book title. Bradford, please go write it. A lot of people would relate.

 

[sooo]

Yeah, Bradford gets lucky once in awhile. I was about to say thanks before reading your mention of meng. Follow up feed back on these threads are so valuable. Thanks.

Let no man or woman (try to) join what heaven has divided asunder.

 

[poised]

Asundering

Let no man or woman (try to) join what heaven has divided asunder.

LOL meng. Thanks for that.

As always, your understanding and downright cleverness make things entirely memorable.