help! exact same result in "opposing" questions

[nunodonato]

Well, they are not really opposite questions, but different paths I'm trying to decide of which to take.

My first question, a week ago, was regarding investing more time in a training/consulting work I've been doing on my "spare time". I've been meeting a lot of resistance and things seem not to flow so well...
I tried asking if it was a good move to push harder and invest more time and energy in this.
I got 23.4 > 35.
Sounded like a negative answer (I am my own boss, or "person at the top" in this perspective). And the result was a positive one (35)

Today I did another reading regarding my current job. I've been facing a lot of frustration with my work, boss,etc, and I'm planing to quit or renegotiate my terms. After a lot of brainstorming, I came up with a proposal for my boss, and asked the IChing some advice about presenting it or not.
I got 23.4 > 35 again!!

Now in this case, I'm not the "person at the top", so its like 23.4 is against my boss and not me.. could it be??
My logic tells me this is actually a good move to do (resulting in 35).

Anyone care to share some thoughts?

 

[ginnie]

In this case I would say the 35 represents your hope for a better situation, not the result. Here at Clarity we regard the relating hexagram as being most often the context of your question.

 

[Liselle]

Where are you getting the "person at the top" from? The translations I've looked at for 23.4 don't mention a "person at the top." For example, here is Wilhelm-Baynes:

"Six in the fourth place means:
The bed is split up to the skin.
Misfortune."

I hardly ever know what the hexagram 23 lines mean, so I'm no help on that part. But I'm wondering if getting the identical reading for two different "paths" (as you put it) means that the solution is something other than either thing you asked about?

 

[nunodonato]

@lisa, different websites seem to translate it differently, but usually something in these lines

Line 4

The bed is overturned. His skin is split. Great misfortune.

The worst has happened. Disaster has struck. The Superior Man is brought down and his personal safety is threatened.

Superior Man here refers to my "person at the top", which is also represented from the top line, which is being chased by all the lower 5 lines... if I understood correctly

Reading a few more things on 23 and 23.4 got me seriously concerned. Some say the line 4 of 23 is the worst line of the whole I Ching, calamity is sure to come, etc etc :/

But the overall idea of 23 seems to be that its better not to do anything right now... so, as you said, maybe the solution is not in any of those paths, maybe I should just wait some more time and other options will appear?

 

[Liselle]

"Superior Man" (or "noble one," or "great person") in the I Ching doesn't necessarily mean literally the boss in the sense that we think of it, like the person in charge at work. It could refer to that person, if they're a person involved in the situation, but I don't think it's quite as clear-cut as you're making it. I think it's more an attitude, or the role someone is playing in a situation. It's usually contrasted with the idea of a "small person." It could be referring to you in both readings.

But - it's probably important to note that "superior man" is not mentioned in the text of line 23.4. It's mentioned in the commentary you quoted, which is not the same thing. This doesn't mean the commentary is wrong, but it's an important distinction to make: Yi itself isn't bringing the "superior man" concept into this line; a commentator is.

You can get more information from Hilary's Language of Change glossary, which is a reference document included with the Resonance Journal software. (You can learn more about these products by following the links.) A smaller version (at a lower price), called Words of Change, is available here. I'd strongly recommend getting at least Words of Change - it's a great help in deciphering Yi's obscure imagery and understanding your readings.

 

[mirian]

Hi nunodonato,

I have often found that hex 23 represents a mix of unfavourable internal and external circumstances. Internally, the person is not in the right state of mind - emotionally unbalanced, upset, nervous, frustrated. Externally, things are not quite right either, plans that don't work, a job that doesn't improve, or a relationship that has gone wrong. So, both aspects - internal and external - keep affecting each other. The more nervous you are, the less likely is that a solution will be found for whatever the problem is. And as the bad conditions persist again there is a negative impact on your emotions.

So, that said, yes you are quite right, line 4 is not good at all, but the thing is: line 4 shows the point in which things have already gone wrong, you cannot avoid that, the whole "disaster" -if you want to call it that way- is already at your door. But it cannot get any worse, so then it is the moment when things start to change. And there is a lot of change involving hex 23, which is a lot about getting rid of stuff that no longer serves to any purpose. And, again, that happens on both levels, the circumstances around you and the way you look and/or approach the issues that matter to you.

 

[nunodonato]

Thanks miriam, for that insight. It's good to know there's something positive about 23

Yes, there are definitely internal and external circumstances in my situation, both not easy.. a lot of frustration, feelings of being out of my path, unbalance, etc. But that's exactly why I questioned the IChing, to know if I should try and push me out of this, or if it would be better to wait and let things calm down until a better option presents itself.

One thing I'm puzzled about, how come a changing line 4 results in hex35, which seems so positive?

 

[Liselle]

One thing I'm puzzled about, how come a changing line 4 results in hex35, which seems so positive?

The relating hexagram is usually not the result. It's the background of the situation, how you relate to it. So in this case, it might be reflecting your desire to advance, rather than predicting that you will. (Yet more un-jolliness, sorry.)

Maybe one thing you could try at this point is to think about asking a more general question, maybe one at a more fundamental level? You asked about two specific things, and got the same negative response for both, so maybe a broader question would help.

 

[mirian]

One thing I'm puzzled about, how come a changing line 4 results in hex35, which seems so positive?

Hi, now you understand that hex 35 is not the result of hex 23 As for your reading, I don't think that the Yi is saying either yes or no to your plans to invest more time in training work or to present a new plan to your boss. What I think it is saying is " look, these things are not working, that is the disaster, which you cannot avoid, and it is all affecting you badly ". As I said, it can't be worse than that, can it? So, now you will have to figure it out how to change, how to find new ways of dealing with your work situation. In my personal view, with hex 23 there is always something that you need to get rid of, old stuff to give room to the new.

Again, that is my personal experience with your reading. I know that it all sounds a bit generic to you, but in my view the way you are approaching the Yi and asking your questions is not as direct as it could be to help you more. Sorry