Help with multiple lines - Hex 50 and Hex 18

[learner]

Dear friends,
I have tried two different questions to the I Ching regarding a situation and in both of them I have received multiple lines, which apparently suggest a contradiction.
In the first question, I have got Hex 50 with changing lines fourth and sixth. The fourth line describes ?the Ting? with the legs broken whereas the sixth shows the cauldron with jade rings and it is considered auspicious.
In the second question, I have received Hex 18, with multiple lines four and five. In the fourth moving line the action that the should be taken is insufficient to correct things that are already deteriorating. But in the fifth line the reparation of what has been ruined is possible, bringing relief.

Does any of you have that method to give priority to one of the moving lines over another in a case like that of multiple meanings?

I would appreciate your help because I am stuck here.

Learner

 

[theoldman]

For Learner

From my 23 years experience of ?living with? Yijing (sorry, for sell myself here) tell me that I should ignore the moving line, or even the second question that promtly ask about myself after the first one. I should ask just one day one question or something like that. Expept for the the other question, not mine.

As for you question: hex 50

From my personal note, I will get this hex when I has something to do with exceptional time or good fortune. It concerns about opportunities and the great chance of success, even in relationship.

By the way, beware of the relationship with harmful one. And do not try to show off my talents or material goods now.

Hope it help a bit.

PS I believe you got hex 18 becuase you lose the inner strength and/or anxious about impending difficulties.

 

[anita]

Dear Learner,

Steve Marshall suggests that with 2 lines moving one look at the second not first line. With 3, the middle one and with 4 or more you go into the next (changed) hexagram and look at the bottomest line that doesn't come from a changing line in the first hex. Also when 6th line moves, look at the next hex in sequence - if 60 line 6 moves, look at 61 for instance - so suggests Karcher. And both know what they're talking about.

Best for your Quest
Anita
Anita

 

[chrislofting]

Hi Learner,

50 with changing lines 4 and 6 gives 46. so:

(1) 50 is not changing into 46, 50 is shape-shifting, taking-on an exaggeration of characteristics of 46 WITHIN the context of 50.

based on the comments in the below link, any comments on this 'change' would be in the form of a warning, thus in the context of 'transformation'
(50) one is perhaps trying too hard to get 'entangled' (46) with that process.

(2) 50 IS changing into 46 and in general that reflects the outcome of the transformation of 50 , we get more 'entangled'. (where this form of change is interpretable as TRANSCENDING in that core self is changing rather than just the shape-shifting of (1)).

(3) The swapping of trigrams in a focus on context influences on change suggests 50 in a CONTEXT of 20 (46 with its trigrams swapped gives us 20) leads to an expression of 46 (see below link) The focus here is (a) the I Ching describes 'all there is' such all change is describable by a hexagram. (b) a hexagram in a context determined by another hexagram will reflect the 'differences' in the relationship through patterns of 'moving lines' - there are 63 possible combinations. As such the traditional IC has left out a lot that is possible (c) the 'path' into any hexagram favours a particular format where that path is described by another hexagram.

The two forms of change ((1) and (2)) seem to be the 'best bet' in interpretations of multiple line changes where the traditional line comments focus on 6 out of 63 possible expressions where those 6 are considered foundational and based on a movement 'up' the hexagram BUT the hexagram is a WHOLE and as such changing lines reflect changes in EXPRESSION, it is like wearing different clothes etc. IOW each hexagram is in need of an additional 58 changing line comments ;-)

IOW a hexagram can be interpreted as a serial form (bottom to top -sum of parts from 'raw' to 'refined', from worker to sage, beginning to end) or as a whole form (parallel) expressing local differences - multiple line changes.

There is also the five-phase perspective where hexagram 50 with 4 and 6 'changing' reflect the expression of 50 in five-phase format where its Distribution (FIRE) phase active. (see http://pages.prodigy.net/lofting/icfivewood.html
)

see other comments on line changes etc in

http://pages.prodigy.net/lofting/linecomms.html

Chris.

 

[heylise]

As many yi people there are, so many solutions too!
Here is another one, I hope not to confuse you. But this way you have several options, and you can choose what suits best to your own mental make-up.

IMO a hexagram is a total picture of a situation, and as such contradictions are inevitable. Imagine someone who wants to talk to his family. The advice might be: ?tell all to your wife, she will understand you, but tell your father only what he can cope with, or he will panic. Give your brothers just a short info, but to your children you should carefully explain your own feelings, and why you take this decision?. Four different pieces of advice for one single situation.
The bottom line might refer to the children, the top line to your father. The fifth to your wife, as being the co-director, the fourth to yourself, as the decision-maker, and so on. Or 5 to you as the one who takes the initiative, and 4 to your wife as the one who decides in the end.
So every line gives important advice. 50.4 might warn you that you are deciding something based on a personal weakness. Mend yourself (18) otherwise you will do something wrong. 50.6: you do have the potential to bring this to a very valuable solution - if you manage to follow your own course (32).

LiSe

 

[gene]

Hi everyone

I don't have solutions here, but just an additional way to look at this, which fits in with LiSe's post. For straightforward advice, yes, there are conventional ways of saying, okay, this line is the dominating line, look at this line etc. However, to get a deeper answer, it is best to look at all the lines and figure out how they relate to each other. This is very difficult, and sometimes I can't do it. But it helps to become familiar with the meaning of each individual line. Line one stands for the masses. It can also stand for a worker at the bottom of the pyramid. From there perhaps other analogies can be made. The second line often refers to a worker who is out in the field, like a military commander. If the second line is yin, and the fifth line is yang, the second line can refer to a wife, depending of course, on the question being asked. From there, other analogies can be made. The fifth line is a ruler, as such it can refer to a boss, etc. In hexagram fifty, for example, the fourth line can be a prince, who is close to the ruler. By being close to the ruler, he/she can be in a place too close to the ruler, and therefore, his work and actions are too easily observed. Therefore, sometimes it can be a dangerous position. In fifty, the fourth line is yang, and the fifth line yin. The fourth line being yang can be too strong for the ruler's taste, who is yin, soft and humble, and can bring down trouble upon himself. If the ruler does not trust him, his "meal can be spoiled." (This is just one way of looking at it. The possibilities are endless.) In a practical way, it is possible the boss doesn't trust you. Line six is someone who has completed the meaning of the hexagram as a whole, and has gone beyond the normal affairs of men in respect to the meaning of the hexagram. One possible meaning when getting line 4 and 6 is that line four is not trusted, but he has gone beyond, or will go beyond the danger inherent in the situation, therefore the boss or coworker, or family member or boyfriend who distrusts cannot act upon his distrust. This would become more apparent too in hexagram 50 if line 2 is moving. ("My comrades are envious but they cannot harm me.") I'm not giving an interpretation of any of the readings above, but just showing how the lines can interact.

It is also a good idea to understand the correlation of the lines. Some hexagrams have lines that do not follow the general rules. Hexagram 2 is to be considered a complement to hexagram 1, not just an opposite. So ideally, in each correspondence, there will be one yin and one yang. They compliment each other. When yin and yang are false yin and yang, though, they don't compliment, they oppose. In hexagram 38, the first and fourth line do not correspond, but since the fifth line is yin, and the second is yang, they complement each other, therefore, there is possibility of a reconciliation.

Understanding the relationships between lines gives us an understanding that goes beyond the advice and the commentary. It is the beginning of the real complications and depth of the book.

Gene

 

[learner]

Dear friends,

Thank you all, so many different ideas and all of them are helpful indeed.

Anita, according Steve Marshall?s perspective I should look at sixth moving line in Hex 50 and at fifth changing line in Hex 18, right? I am glad to hear from that because there is a suggestion that a favourable outcome can possibly be achieved, which cherish some hope for sure.

LiSe, I am going to take into consideration that warning in 50.4 that I am deciding something based on a personal weakness and the admonition that I should mend myself. Impending difficulties in the situation can easily lead me to make some wrong choices and/or to act in a way that are not appropriate to meet the challenge.

Gene, you talk about the fourth line in Hex 50 being yang and so ?too strong for the ruler's taste?. Do you think that might mean that I have not been trusted in this situation bringing the result of the ?meal can be spoiled"? I am also wondering about the description of the sixth line showing someone who has gone beyond the normal affairs of men in respect to the meaning of the hexagram. I am not sure if I got the picture here. If you have time would you mind adding some additional ideas here?

Thank you so much.
Learner

 

[gene]

Learner

I am sorry, I was just giving examples there and wasn't trying to apply it to your reading. I went back and looked at your original post, and I don't see the particular question, so I would not be able to interpret in any way. Multiple lines are difficult and I think even intermediate and possibly sometimes advanced people have problems with them. So much depends on the question and the context. Multiple lines can mean more than one person is involved in the reading. Even knowing the meanings of the lines, then things get even trickier getting to know the meaning of the trigrams, and since there is a nuclear hexagram well, four trigrams are involved, and they all have their own meaning. What makes things even more difficult, is that the trigrams relate to elements, and the elements destroy or augment other elements. For most answers, it is not necessary to get that deeply into the hexagram, but sometimes, for a deeper understanding, it is very helpful. When you get into it at that level, though, it becomes more like reading Tarot cards. Hopefully you can get a good answer just reading the most significant line, but that is not always the case.

Gene

 

[anita]

Learner,

Karcher would say that in 50, look mainly at line 6 and then also at hex 51 in general. Also at 46 of course. Marshall would say (I suppose) that you look mainly at line 6 and at resulting hex 46. In 18 you'd look mainly at the 4th line. And resulting hex. This is a system I'm trying out for myself only now and results still have to be seen.

I would also agree that all changing lines mean something.

Best for Your Quest
Anita

 

[learner]

Hi Gene,
I totally understand and agree that multiple lines can be very tricky. By reading again the lines that I have received in Hex 50 and Hex 18, I tend to believe that the I Ching is really talking not just about me but also about someone else. Actually, there is another person in the situation, as always in any case. I am going to think carefully about the reading for a couple of days and perhaps it is a good idea to try another question afterwards. Just one question! I have to mend myself: it is not the best strategy to pose more than one question to the I Ching at once! Thanks, anyway.

Hi Anita,
As I was telling Gene above, now I am almost sure that at least one of those lines is about another person, not me. And, as you say, in Hex 18 looking mainly at fourth line would confirm this theory. According to this system, the other person wouldn?t take the appropriate step to correct things that are already deteriorating. And that makes sense, because the situation has already started to evolve and there is some evidence that this approach is right. Thank you so much.

Learner