Help with my pizza delivery

[jte]

"The Yi wouldn't tell me 44 (repeatedly) about a man the universe constantly tells me to stay focused on. They haven't brought me all this way... they haven't readied me for someone who would be destructive to my life. That's why I've been searching for so long for more understanding of 44. I do believe I understand now. "

I'm not saying the below *is* the case in your situation Val, however, consider:
If someone is, well, fairly messed up, you might need to be fairly "expansive" (looking for the right word here) to be in a position to help them. You might need to be able to roll with the punches they give you in order to bring the situation to a good outcome.

Of course that's a general statement - while I believe it's true, it might have nothing to do with your particular situation and 44 as it instantiates itself in your life. But I thought it was worth mentioning.

- Jeff

 

[jte]

Matt, I must say I like your post as well. I'd just add that, IMHO, what the Yi connects you to (or *can* connect you to, at least) isn't only within. Part of it is within, but I think an important part is without as well. After all whatever may be latent inside of us, human beings didn't create the whole universe. We're just little tiny parts of it.

Food for thought, and again, what you did post was very well said, IMO...

- Jeff

 

[dobro p]

Matt - yeah, thumbs up. What you said said it really well.

"Because our inner noise and conditioning often prevent us from realising our own truths, we turn to external methods such as divining to help clarify our minds and hearts. In my eyes, the oracle is not something separate from us, it is simply a trigger to arousing the power lying inside us all. It is ourselves speaking to...ourselves. And when we grasp the inherent beauty of its message, then ultimately we will let the oracle go altogether, it will no longer be needed to serve our purpose of questioning. We will know how to listen to the answers without it."

You can put this one in the 'best of' archive, Hilary lol.

I don't think you let go of the oracle when you grasp the beauty of its message, though. I think you let go of it when you start to see the non-evident contours of situations without the help of the oracle. My understanding is that it starts to happen as you develop and evolve. I read 'Autobiography of a Yogi' recently. Amazing book. Describes a lot of amazing abilities that evolved people can manifest.

 

[micheline]

Don't know where you live now, Dobro, (didnt you just move?) but FWIW, this man named Roy eugene Davis who is an ordained disciple of Paramahansa Yogananda(since 1951) is having a first international Kriya Yoga congress and Mediation Seminar in california on march 9-11 2006.

Davis is a really wonderful teacher and I love his books...he recently wrote one all about Paramahansa and his teachings/his time spent with him...Davis lives in georgia, and he opens his center there free of charge to anyone who wants to come and stay for awhile....he is definitely not in "the business" for the money, something I appreciate and find refreshing.
www.csa-davis.org/

I agree about the Autob of a yogi book..read that many years ago and was deeply affected by it.

 

[cal val]

Jeff...

Thank you so much for your thoughts on 44. I thought about that same possibility this weekend.

I also thought about the possibility that it's him in that situation... that maybe he's the one mixed up with someone who's fairly well messed up. Maybe he has to see that and extricate himself from that first.

Love,

Val

 

[cal val]

Bruce...

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

You could always play it safe, be supported by all sorts of logic, rightness and mores to do so. And yet.... what if?<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>This is definitely a part of it too! Thank you!

You could always play it safe, be supported by all sorts of logic, rightness and mores to do so. - That's the Crystal Merchant talking.

And yet.... what if? - That's the Alchemist talking.

I've tried the "sensible" logical route. It doesn't work when the heart knows what it wants. When the heart knows, it's voice is loudest. And the universe, the Soul of the World, very loudly supports the heart... at least in my case.

Love,

Val

 

[bruce]

Val,

"And the universe, the Soul of the World, very loudly supports the heart..."

I think that's true. An old pastor friend had a favorite saying, "who you are speaks so loudly I can't hear a word you say." I think the Universe listens to who you are, which is your heart and soul.

"Love is eternal - the aspect may change, but not the essence. There is the same difference in a person before and after he is in love as there is in an unlighted lamp and one that is burning. The lamp was there and was a good lamp, but now it is shedding light too, and that is its real function. And love makes one calmer about many things, and that way, one is more fit for one's work." (Vincent Van Gogh)

 

[cal val]

Bruce...

Thank you so much for the Vincent quote. I love it. You know he's my favorite artist, and no artist intrigues as much as he does.

Love,

Val

 

[auriel]

hey all,

i am sneaking about these confabulations, stoking up on the warmth, and the nuts of wisdom. still waiting to share dobro's pizza though. i'll even pay something, if i must. . .

human beings are born with blinders on. we attend our tasks and interpert external events in light of current pre-occupations. for instance ask a soldier how to achieve peace, he will probably say, "by killing more people!". the book of changes, the oracle, is indispensible, it gives us a chance at seing more. just a chance. and you need to battle to get a glimse beyond. no one will ever have the whole at their fingertips, one can only hope to gain a certain fluidity of perspective. the truth of the cast can be twisted back into reaffirmations of our own needs but at what price?

these interpertations of old no. 44 are killing me, bruce, val. they are correct but. jeff is more to the point. look at it this way. one has prepared one's self and brought one's issues to court; or you've made yourself the best person you can and offer yourself to your lover, or to the army recruiting officer. then comes 44. you got something they want, and not necessarily what you want to give, either; and it'll be sucked out of you by the institution (or the kind of person signified). the text and lines are instructions on how to conduct yourself in those circumstances. if'n you do things right you'll find the melon 'neath the medlar. . .

love

 

[bruce]

Auriel,

I think I understand what you're saying. The reason I've bent the 44 branch so much to the left is that it has most often been bent entirely to the right. You know: resist temptation, beware of the seductress of passion, all that stuff that makes 44 a 'bad' omen.

But do tell me, what does "if'n you do things right" mean? Right according to what or to whom? What standard do you refer to?

 

[bruce]

You see, Auriel, I rather prefer juicy melons, not fluffy, nor hard with unripeness. That means things could get a little messy.

 

[micheline]

"The rise of the inferior element is pictured here in the image of a bold girl who lightly surrenders herself and thus seizes power. This would not be possible if the strong and light-giving element had not in turn come halfway. The inferior thing seems so harmless and inviting that a man delights in it; it looks so small and weak that he imagines he may dally with it and come to no harm."

 

[micheline]

uh-oh, thought this was a wolf..on second glance,maybe it is a fox...? oh well

 

[cal val]

Hi Auriel...

Loved your post. I agree with you because of the hexagram statement in the ZhouYi that this is saying "Avoid the temptation." I just want to add my two knuts about a couple of things you said.

First of all... "human beings are born with blinders on." I know what you're saying, and I can understand why you'd think that... I've interacted with enough people who seem to be moving through life with blinders on... but I don't think so. I think most of us... a very large percentage of us, in fact... see things through colored lens, yes, but we are not all that blind. And I don't believe that most of the people wearing blinders were born that way. We wouldn't have progressed like we have if that were the case. In the age old nature vs nurture debate, I believe the 'blinders syndrome' is probably more nurture than nature. It's a learned behavior more than a natural "born" behavior, and one can choose to be blind or choose to go out and get as much 411 as one can get on anything one chooses.

"you got something they want, and not necessarily what you want to give, either; and it'll be sucked out of you by the institution (or the kind of person signified). " I really feel that statement is rather fatalistic. And I offer a simple alternative. It's so true that we constantly encounter people who want from us something other than we want to give. In fact, there are several posts right here on this forum I could point to that provide ample evidence to that effect. Speaking for myself, I've experienced a few people trying to tell me I don't really believe what I've stated I believe... there have even been a couple who have flatly told me what I believe is wrong... and I've watched them all throw angry little verbal fits or go into passive/aggressive communication mode when I've reiterate that I believe what I originally asserted rather than what they've proposed.

And I agree... it's true that they indeed will 'suck it out us'... IF we let them. But we all have choices. We have choices before going in, and we have choices as to how to respond (or react) to situations that arise after going in (usually if we miss something going in). We can let them suck it out of us... or we can hold on to it.

I decided to get the help of a professional about 20 years ago when I realized that *I* was responsible for my involvement in situations where "it was being sucked out of me." Every situation I was in... love, work, family... someone was "sucking it out of me." What I learned with the help of the professional was that if I didn't walk into that kind of situation (on my own two feet)... I created it. Twenty years later I find myself in more situations where they're not only NOT trying to suck it out me, but they're nurturing what I DO have and want to give. Of course, I still encounter those situations and people who will try... but not for long... unless they're incredibly stubborn... *grin* And I don't ever seem to get tired of holding my own with them. And I don't ever let their attempts interfere with how I feel toward them either. I rarely resent them any more.

That's why 44 is a very curious answer about a man that's supposed to be wonderful for me... with whom I'm supposed to achieve great things... on whom the universe endeavors on an almost daily basis to keep me focused (I'm not the kind of woman who thinks I NEED to be in a relationship, so I don't tend to focus on them as much as some other women). I'm not the kind of woman an alcoholic, drug abuser or any other kind of control freak (the types who live on what they suck out of others) would want to end up with (unless they don't really want to be an alcoholic/drug abuser/control freak and really want to take responsibility for themselves... for their actions and feelings)... because I'm not an enabler.

Love,

Val

 

[bruce]

"What I must do is all that concerns me, not what the people think. This rule, equally arduous in actual and intellectual life, may serve for the whole distinction between greatness and meanness. It is the harder, because you will always find those who think they know what is your duty better than you know it. It is easy in the world to live after the world?s opinion; but the great person is the one who in the midst of the crowd keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." Ralph Waldo Emerson

 

[auriel]

"It is easy in the world to live after the world?s opinion"

so fine true and usefull, and to think the man who wrote that is one of the few accessible philosophers- did he compromise? did Hume obfuscate?

 

[cal val]

Hi Bruce...

Love it love it love it. Thank you.

You know I'm STILL curious about 44. I still believe there's more to it than is explicit or apparently implicit in the Zhouyi hexagram statement. You know my first post on the forum was January 6, 2003. I had been to LiSe's site... studying her calendrical gua illustrations... and while focusing on her images, asked when will the waiting end and got 13 to 44. 44 may or may not have been the post-summer solstice gua. Since then I've received 44 as an answer when I've asked for a description of the man that Alixe and Austin saw and other 'identifying' questions pertaining to this mysterious fellow.

*scratching head* I suppose time will tell.

Love,

Val

 

[bruce]

Hi Val,

Time usually does tell, doesn?t it? Although not always what we expected to hear.

Let me share this about 44 on a personal level. 44 is very helpful to me when my life is lacking a challenge, when life becomes two-dimensional and drab. No matter how well (or not) I develop inwardly or ?spiritually?, I still need something to challenge me, to awaken my senses, to stir up the soup, in order to feel fully alive and present in the ?real world?. 44 is a wonderful grounding device; adding flesh to spirit, giving the sensual a place to live and the imagination a garden in which to flourish.

Let another call it whatever they wish. It?s my illusion or dream, my fantasy, my garden. And who knows what may manifest from it?

This sounds silly, but recently 44 was a new pair of ostrich leather cowboy boots. How vain! Oh, my rationale covered my ?flaw?, because they list for $339.95, and I could buy them on eBay for just $56! That?s just plain logical, right?! And that also fueled the need to have these boots ? what a bargain! hmmm. Well, I am enjoying wearing them. They give me a funny kind of boost. Nonessential, vain, image making, etc etc. but you know what? I ENJOY them! What a concept.

 

[cal val]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

...they list for $339.95, and I could buy them on eBay for just $56! That?s just plain logical, right?!<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>logical? logical??? It's logical like breathing is logical. You'd be outta your freakin' mind to pass up an opportunity like that! I do believe if you look identity up in the theasaurus you'll find that boots must be a synonym. I have a pair of Justins... white with inlaid silver leather that I'm having refurbished. I love them nearly as much as I love life.

Congratulations! That kind of shopping definitely gives you bragging rights!

Love,

Val

 

[bruce]

lol! Thanks!

Sitting here, still thinking about this.

For most people, when is the "right" time to get married, or have a baby, or buy a house? Often the right time is never. That is to say, the time is most often filled with uncertainty and self doubt. And a huge temptation.

 

[auriel]

val,

(once) 44 was for me a sexual encounter. i loved to get it. that fact and Bruce's post on the ostrich boots echoes my current interest: guaging the amount personal symbolism weighs on the balanced microcosm of the book of changes, or any idea system. i think it weighs a great deal. but i also think that the system itself (as in: our evolving understanding of it) generates friction against those personal values being co-ordinated to its interstices; and that these 'points of contention' can become the nexii of presentation for other deeper conflicts to 'present' themselves to consciosness.

when i go on vacation next month, i am going to take that last sentence with me.

let me start over.

it seems to me that i can see you blush when you talk about this guy- this lucky guy. you can't make me believe- but you can try- that you aren't saving some part of you just for him, and that that special side of you doesn't include as an adjunct (it is my contention that it does )your very vulnerability. and it may be your vulnerability because you can't quite see it.

in short, Bruce would never have got his boots if'n he didn't bid on them. it may well be an attribute of 44 that we have to seek it out- like you do those girls that you shouldn't bring home. [hey Bruce- remember, it is the feet that lead us to sin. . . and concerning fluffy, furry or bi-furctated melons- and mixed metaphors, too my definition of 44.5 would paralel the yiddish saying "an extra language learned is an extra soul acquired", if you get my drift- its applicable to boots and spheres of influence as well]

 

[bruce]

Auriel,

I'm glad you mentioned vulnerability, because I agree it's a key element of 44. When we build a structure (social, spiritual, economic) around us to protect us from "sinning", that can serve to preserve our integrity, our job, our family, our religious beliefs or personal philosophies. What we then lose, however, is our vulnerability to be freely influenced. As a result we also lose our creativity, our receptivity to life's impulses and the 'will to power'. Such persons grow proud, arrogant and emotionally distant in their certainty that their way is correct and superior. But in reality, they have merely made a decision to remain out of reach of life's less tidy experiences and truths: all very safe and invulnerable.

 

[auriel]

i have this picture of america, 400 million couch patatoes chanting in unison "we believe in free choice, we believe in free choice"

some vulnerability has to remain. the great english country estate still vulnerable to micheline's little fox. or perhaps rather the need to be vulnerable escalates, while enemies who are really victims are chosen for their weakness; in actuality it can become so that while building up walls and creating artifial enemies, our own atavistic urges, creeping from our sub-consciouses, get to devouring our souls.

its nice to think that some wild thing "so small and weak that he imagines he may dally with it and come to no harm" can still disrupt the kinds of sad set-piece lives you discribe.

you made me think about my own wall

 

[auriel]

lemme just clear this melon point up quickly. if 44's a lover, by doing it right i mean you have to suppress yourself and accomodate her, know when to come forward when to hold back, based on her rhythems not yours; then you'll get a baby. if its the army you got to follow the code, and then you'll get that cushy little job; if its boots, you gotta learn to walk that walk. the thing is that at first it seems like she he it them were made for you, perfect fit, no adjustment neccessary. soon enuf however one realizes that one has a lot to learn.

 

[bruce]

That's good. Like it a lot. Gonna think on that on the way up to Kingman.

 

[cal val]

Gooooo-oooooood evening from LA Auriel...

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

it seems to me that i can see you blush when you talk about this guy- this lucky guy. you can't make me believe- but you can try- that you aren't saving some part of you just for him, and that that special side of you doesn't include as an adjunct (it is my contention that it does )your very vulnerability. and it may be your vulnerability because you can't quite see it.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> Actually, I have no idea who this 'guy' is. I have no idea if I've ever known him before or if I'm yet to meet him. If he's the guy from my past I would like him to be then I've copied and pasted a paragraph I wrote about feeling vulnerable with him...

<blockquote>as part of my journey in Virginia, the men in grey helped me release pain and fear that obstructed my ability to trust and to love a man, a life partner, romantically, and, as a result, I experienced love for a man like no love I've ever experienced in my life. It washed over me. It filled me up. I was immersed in it. It was powerful. Love is powerful beyond anything you can imagine. And it WAS enlightment. It was pure trust... pure love. I was connected with him AND the universe. I was stripped naked of all my defenses... trusting .. my heart and soul were bare to him... trusting... I was absolutely and completely vulnerable... I trusted him. And I felt safe... with him.</blockquote>I would like the 'guy' to be him because he's the first man I've ever loved (besides the men in my family) that I've wanted to continue knowing after the break up. He's the man who taught me what it's like to be respected by a lover. No man before him respected me the way he did. Even though he's the man I would like this 'guy' to be, I'm not closing the door on other friendships, other options. I'm in 8.5 mode. I'm open to and look forward to the man who comes into my life or back into my life who will love me as much as he loved me and whom I will love as much as I loved him.

Being vulnerable, trusting, is a choice as well. I can choose to cloister myself and my heart away, never to experience the pain again I experienced when I lost him... it still hurts... even now as I type this... lump in my throat and stinging tears in my eyes at the mere thought of losing him... or I can choose to make myself available to love again, to risk the pain again, to trust again.

The choice is really easy because I quite naturally take responsibility for my own feelings any more. I don't make 'him' responsible. I don't blame him for how I feel about losing him. I don't say, "He hurt me." I say, "I feel hurt." I don't say he or anyone or anything sucked it out of me. Instead I say, "My choices got me where I am today." When I accept responsibility for my choices, I naturally accept responsibility for the emotions I feel as a result of my choices. That's the simple little alternative I was talking about earlier... keeping your power by being responsible for your own choices, actions and feelings rather than letting anyone "suck it out you."

Accepting responsibility for my choices is how I ended up on this forum. Accepting that I'd made a string of bad decisions and gotten myself into a bad situation and asking for help from beyond myself was the act that preceded the incredible journey of self-discovery I embarked on after I got here. The 'men in grey' came to me in my dreams in answer to my pleas for help. They illuminated my goal line for me and guided me to the center of being where I saw the obstacle that stood between me and my goal line, and I was able to get past it. The obstacle was pain that I'd been afraid to feel many many years ago. I felt it, and now I'm not afraid of pain any more. I'm not afraid of being vulnerable. I trust myself.

<blockquote>In relating to others, it is never the behavior of another person causing us to feel angry, or unkind, or blaming - it is our own unmet needs. We can identify the other person's behavior as the stimulus for our upset, but it is not the cause. Our feelings come from inside of us because we are needing something. No one can make us feel a certain way. To tell them they did so is to use guilt to coerce them, to try to make a person do what you want them to do. This is a form of violence.</blockquote>The Healing Art of Communication I haven't read this whole page yet. I've skimmed it, and I see it says a lot of what I've learned over the last 20 years... and then some. So I've printed it out to read at my leisure this weekend. I think you might find it interesting as well because it addresses the vulnerability you've expressed in your last few posts.

Love,

Val

 

[bruce]

Val, he sounds like your yang to me. If 44 is an image of an impressing woman to a powerful man, then perhaps it can also be an impressing man to a powerful woman. And it may be possible, even likely, that if this dance between you continues, he may yet manifest in human form. The child born. That would be cool..

 

[auriel]

from the flowers she left, one flower remains
i will bring no others untill she returns
it is autumn and the sky changes constantly

 

[cal val]

Auriel...

Who wrote that? I like it a lot.

Love,

Val