Clarity,
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There are 2 problems with your conclusions. In Chinese philosophy ( medicine also) yin and yang are complementary. The point is always to balance them.It's not the first time I ask this myself.
While the yin lines are representatives of female in the I Ching, all the unpleasant characteristics are attributed to them. The most heard are "inferior", "weak". Hexagrams such as 23 & 44 are regarded as bad auspice because "the in/yins rule over the male". And 64 shows being out of place because the yins aren't in second place.
And I don't discuss much about the picture of women who are whether courtesans/marrying maiden/child bearing wives (MAYBE it shows all the ways possible for a woman to be in "an era" - as we don't have much information about the older areas; hence some findings about ancient Scandinavian women & matriarchal communities question the belief that views such type of female social conditioning as the "natural" course of evolution & insists that it has been like that always. Even if it was the case, so what? Should we respect slavery because it existed as some point?).
As a female, why should I keep on using & respecting a system with such a degrading view on me?
I'm not likely to stop using the I Ching all of a sudden; it has been like an addiction, or some solution for my thirst to know about future/what's invisible. But the question is in my mind, very bold.
Hmmm. I'm not really sure about that. Once you go back before agriculture, you can find a lot of mixed evidence and variation between different peoples in that regard. And the Zhouyi was pretty much at the cusp of the emergence of agriculture. I wouldn't assume that it was as patriarchal as China became later. Bit hard to really tell. But look at the Book of Songs. There's a lot of women in there, and they aren't all wallflowers.I do not see any problems with the conclusion as to whether I Ching is influenced by patriarchal views or not. The question is: how old is the I Ching ? If it's a bronze age document, Yes: patriarchal it is without doubt as this was the age of patriarchalism. How old is the I Ching?
The book of Song's meaning The book of Ode, the Confucian classic I suppose. When or if time is given I know I should look more into it. And I must confess that my knowledge about the bronze age in China is limited. The little knowledge I have has left me with the impression that it was male-dominated and in this, I could of course be wrong.Hmmm. I'm not really sure about that. Once you go back before agriculture, you can find a lot of mixed evidence and variation between different peoples in that regard. And the Zhouyi was pretty much at the cusp of the emergence of agriculture. I wouldn't assume that it was as patriarchal as China became later. Bit hard to really tell. But look at the Book of Songs. There's a lot of women in there, and they aren't all wallflowers.
I think it's only Confucian in the way that the I Ching is Confucian. They made it one of their classics. But it is actually around the same age as the Yi. You may be right about society being male dominated back then, but it's not that clear. It probably became more male dominated later, and they sort of retrospectively projected their ideas on the early stages.The book of Song's meaning The book of Ode, the Confucian classic I suppose. When or if time is given I know I should look more into it. And I must confess that my knowledge about the bronze age in China is limited. The little knowledge I have has left me with the impression that it was male-dominated and in this, I could of course be wrong.
Yeah, the yin lines sure get a bad reputation.I talk mainly about the attributed characteristics of Yin lines - which are the representatives of female in the I Ching - and how their position determine the meaning & auspice of a cast. That's what I have read in many interpretation.
So what's the point? That if being overly nurturing and molded by others was an inherent female thing that made the majority of women happy, they didn't jump on occasions to change, nor older generations regret not having lived like the younger ones. You can say that's the result of external changes but isn't this all the evolution is about?
However, hey, the Yins aren't even regarded as gentle and nurturing, rather idiot and destructive
As for Qian, in its quiescent state it is focused, and in its active state it is undeviating. This is how it achieves its great productivity. Focused means "to be perfectly concentrated," and undeviating means "to be impartial and straight to the mark." As for Kun, in its quiescent state it is condensed, and in the active state it is diffuse. This is how it achieves its capacious productivity. Condensed means "gathered in upon itself." When it is at rest, it condenses its qi, and when it becomes active, it opens up and so brings things into existence. Qian, as the commander of Heaven and the initiator of things, is the primal mover of change and transformation and is omnipresent in what is outside physical form. As for Kun, it is through compliance that it takes up where yang leaves off; its efficacy is completely self-realized, and its function something that stays within physical form. Thus, when we deal with Qian in terms of its focus and nondeviation, we address its capacity to materialize, and when we deal with Kun in terms of its condensing and opening up, we address its capacity to provide physical form.
There are many ways to skin a cat!@my_key hinted at this with the quote from Huang of the commentaries, but to me the translation leaves things somewhat unclear. In my intro I describe finding this quote and seeing it to describe two states of yin and yang, an active state and a quiescent state, for each.
This simple and succinct statement speaks volumes to me and may also add, for you, the degree of context and clarity that was missing to enable you to see clearly what Huang's translation is pointing towards.Qian represents the most yang; Kun represents the most yin. In the I Ching all 64 gua are derived from the principal of the mutual coordination and complementarity of yin and yang.
Yin's role is to nurture and manifest the creative spark of Qian.
These complete rather than compete against the Creative. I agree, as you say, that both yin and yang need a volume control that allows for different levels of activity
Wilhelm also comments in the judgement that 'Quiet perseverance brings good fortune' which your comments around the quiescent state of yin concur with.
Huang reports that that one of the commentaries states
Yin is the most gentle and submissive; when put in motion it is strong and firm.
Yin is the most quiet and still; when taking action, it is able to reach a definite goal.
So here, without the use of any pronoun, is confirmation that when in 44 yin is drawn into action it becomes strong and focussed on manifesting that which yang has initiated. In this situation yin is one tough cookie to contend with.
To me this is indeed poignant, but not new, and does not tap into illumination of how the nuances related to how yin and yang in their quiescent states behave differently. But the Forest of Changes does, so this is not simply an interpretation of the dazhuan but the concept may be found in active use and readily explored.Qian represents the most yang; Kun represents the most yin. In the I Ching all 64 gua are derived from the principal of the mutual coordination and complementarity of yin and yang.
Are you referring to your previous posts? I admit that I mostly skimmed the previous pages of the thread, taking in what was on the surface and not taking the time to delve deeply into the more lengthy and substantial perspectives.In your response not only do you struggle with the metaphor I used but additionally you are unable to relate to what I have written in 5 other instances.
No. Just post #70. And of course, there is no need for you to delve deeply into any of this.Are you referring to your previous posts? I admit that I mostly skimmed the previous pages of the thread, taking in what was on the surface and not taking the time to delve deeply into the more lengthy and substantial perspectives.
The metaphor has no other links. It resides solely and is self contained in post #69 presented in an endeavour to bring some clarity. You seem to have picked up the wrong end of the stick. I am not asking you to take more time to evaluate anything I wrote. So feel no obligation to do so.I wasn't aware that your metaphor had links to those posts, so yes I would be happy to take more time to evaluate what you wrote previously as is only fair.
My post was intended to help give context and perspective to Huang's translation that was unclear for you.
If the spark keeps sparking then yin may become confused as to where yang is leading and could well become overwhelmed. A bit like having 10 tennis ball serving machines all firing at her at the same time, incessantly. Which ball do /can I hit?
This is a good example of how to pair yang and yin to engender a constructive outcome, however is it yin's choice to hit anything?When active, on full volume, Qian will just keep on sending those tennis balls over the net. Switch all but one machine off, or even switch the last machine off after the first ball is fired and then creative focus can be centred on just one tennis ball. Yin then knows exactly which ball to focus on and hit.
The mutuality of their 'volume' dance allows for successful, harmonious completion.
I see now that you are getting this from Huang, but to me this is simply the principle of erosion.So here, without the use of any pronoun, is confirmation that when in 44 yin is drawn into action it becomes strong and focussed on manifesting that which yang has initiated. In this situation yin is one tough cookie to contend with.
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).