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Luis I have to say I thought 24 did always imply a positive turning point rather than a change for the worse so I'm not too clear on your thoughts about that, but then I'm not used to considering the hexagrams calendrically. I'd never considered it as preparation for a turn for the worse Its one of those hexagrams I see always in a positive light, 23 shedding 24 growing again.
Seasons same.
But there are points of return where the cycle shows itself most clearly. Midwinter, midnight, as if it turns to 'nothing' and begins again in a small way, growing to fullness, diminishing again, and on and on.
The points of extreme, and especially the one of 'nothing', have always been felt as times in which nature stood still for a moment. It is not good to do hazardous things on the day of new or full moon, there is a much bigger chance of accidents. Children are hardly ever born at those points, nature knows it is not good for their health. Just before or after full moon, yes, but not on the exact moment.
That is also why the passes were closed, and why merchants and other travelers stayed in their inn.
LiSe
Thanks, think I had been viewing 24 somewhat one dimensionally. Now it looks like a multi layered thing - if you know what I mean
As Luis said, there's wisdom in placing 24 at the decline of summer and the approach of winter - to which I'd add: if one plans on returning to spring intact.
I thought Luis was saying he saw 24 as the decline of Fall and the beginning of Winter. Not the decline of Summer and the approach of Winter, which would be Fall.
In any case, we all seem to agree that it's a return of someone or something to some place or situation at some time, right?
This is all actually pretty funny. No wonder we can't return to the center. We don't even know where it is.
The friends who come are either the other yang lines about to enter the hexagram after this first line (according to Cheng Tzu), or the five yin lines, which meet the yang line cordially.
...
- Wilhelm.
Well, other than the "Big Bang", I don't think we can pin the tail, with any accuracy, on the center of any recurring cycles, like the seasons... "Midpoints" are not centers, if we think of "centers" as starting points for something (i.e. a circle)...
L
What is Wilhelm talking about when he says the other yang lines about to enter the hexagram after the first line? I only see one yang line and 5 yin lines.
If you were to pick a turning point (or a 'returning' point) for the cycles of the seasons, what date would you pick? I think you'd pick the winter solstice. Isn't the Chinese solar-lunar calendar pivoted on the winter solstice as well as the phases of the moon?
Depends on whether it's the beginning, middle or end of the turning point. I'd place the solstice as dead center or pivotal point, which, as LiSe mentioned, is like midnight on a clock.
There can only be one turning point on a clock, and that's the dead center.
If you were to pick a turning point (or a 'returning' point) for the cycles of the seasons, what date would you pick? I think you'd pick the winter solstice. Isn't the Chinese solar-lunar calendar pivoted on the winter solstice as well as the phases of the moon?
Those are "midpoints." IMO, the concept of a "center" is beyond the scope of "time cycles" and totally arbitrary. As a matter of fact, "some Chinese systems use the beginning of spring as their time base" (The Astrology of I Ching, W.K.Chu & W.A.Sherrill)
BTW, I think that Solstices and Equinoxes, as well as Moon phases, are just convenient "starting points", only because they are observable and can be pinned in a time line.
L
No, the dead center of the clock... the pivot point which holds the hour minute and second hands that make the hands move in cycles.
Those are "midpoints." IMO, the concept of a "center" is beyond the scope of "time cycles" and totally arbitrary. As a matter of fact, "some Chinese systems use the beginning of spring as their time base" (The Astrology of I Ching, W.K.Chu & W.A.Sherrill)
BTW, I think that Solstices and Equinoxes, as well as Moon phases, are just convenient "starting points", only because they are observable and can be pinned in a time line.
L
No, the dead center of the clock... the pivot point which holds the hour minute and second hands that make the hands move in cycles.
Let's go into physics now: have you realized that, in theory, the very center of any circular motion is a motionless point? Things start moving and speed up, proportionally, as you move away from the center. A bicycle wheel is a good and observable example.
L
Yes. And?
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).