Clarity,
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London.
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dobro said:Answer to your first question: yes.
Response to the second part of what you said: I'm trying to arrive at a meaning of 18.6. Despite the true things you say about the emperor, I don't see any of that as part of the meaning of 18.6. We're talking about working on what's spoiled here, not a lucky holiday from public service.
rinda said:So, perhaps we can think of the world as "that which has been spoiled" and the sage as the one who is working on it....
Rinda
rinda said:nah - then we're back to whether/how one responds to that pressure, the world outside...
hmmm...
Rinda
dobro said:Luis was just talking about the people who don't have the freedom to do what you've just described.
dobro said:Luis was just talking about the people who don't have the freedom to do what you've just described.
dobro said:He honors the high, not the affairs of kings and lords. I suppose you're right about him being under the radar after all though. Otherwise, how would he get away with it? But he's like Lao Tse riding off into the west on his ox - it's the leaving a whole set of values and concerns behind that's the main thrust of this line - and they're left behind for the sake of something better.
dobro said:So, it's a whole shift of values and acting on that shift, which includes the freedom to do just that. Sweet.
dobro said:Okay, question: that freedom to leave the world behind for the sake of higher values - does it represent one aspect of working on what's been spoiled? Or is it a matter of 'line 6 represents the passing of the influence and so it's not much of an issue any more'? Whatcha think?
sparhawk said:IMHO, yes, I think it is an aspect of "working on the spoiled". Any goal set on the improvement of oneself is a way of working on something that is "less than perfect". A meaningful life is "working on the spoiled".
rosada said:Point I'm trying to make here is that 18.6 does NOT comment on whether the exit will be difficult, rather tells how moving on can be made easy: Don't focus the attention on transitory issues, set yourself loftier goals and the petty stuff will take care of itself.
rosada said:Point I'm trying to make here is that 18.6 does NOT comment on whether the exit will be difficult, rather tells how moving on can be made easy: Don't focus the attention on transitory issues, set yourself loftier goals and the petty stuff will take care of itself.
rosada said:Indeed!
Well time to post hex 19, a loftier goal than beating this dead issue!
bruce_g said:I think there’s something being missed here. Every line of 18 refers to dealing with early influences of father or mother, and their father and mother, and their father and mother, etc. That is what’s being left behind here – all those influences, those voices and memories in your head, everything you were supposed to be, according to them. Tradition has led to stagnation, and it’s time to reinvent yourself.
The common saying of the people in this world is "A house that heaps that heaps good upon good is sure to have an abundance of blessings. A house that heaps evil upon evil is sure to have an abundance of ills." However, we have seen many cases where good people did no get this blessing, and bad people did. Hence Buddhism advocates the theory of transmigration in three lifetimes in order to explain this phenomenon. According to this theory, good people have misfortunes because they are repaying the bad karma of previous lives. If they have repaid all their sins, they will definitely receive blessings in their afterlife. Bad people receive blessings in this life because they did good deeds in a previous life. Once the reward has ended, they are bound to have misfortunes in their afterlife. I think this theory grasps the truth of trivial things but ignores the truth of very important things... In the I Ching, you can also find the idea of the accumulation of good and evil. In a family, the grandfather at the top and the offsprings at the bottom, the person himself in the middle and his uncles and cousins on both sides are together called this name (i.e. three generations, or san shih). Despite the name "san shih," it only concerns the present life of an individual. Although the sages said that it [i.e. retribution] would pass through the upper, middle, and lower levels and down through thousands of generations, it only involves one family.
heylise said:In the top line the father or mother is not mentioned, but there it expands to everything the mind can be "child" to. Campbell calls it "grovelling before the facts", behaving mentally like a child, without a discerning ability of one's own.
Kings and lords, literally or metaphorically.
LiSe
sparhawk said:IMO, and I repeat, the mention of "kings and princes" is there for a reason, whoever draws this line must plan for hurdles.
heylise said:In the top line the father or mother is not mentioned, but there it expands to everything the mind can be "child" to. Campbell calls it "grovelling before the facts", behaving mentally like a child, without a discerning ability of one's own.
Kings and lords, literally or metaphorically.
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).