Memorizing the I Ching Hexagram 18. Ku / Work on What Has Been Spoiled [Decay]

[rosada]

Wilhelm's further comments on the line:
Not every man has an obligation to mingle in the affairs of the world. There are some who are developed to such a degree that they are justified in letting the world go its own way and refusing to enter public life with a view of reforming it. But this does not imply the right to remain idle or to sit back and merely criticize. Such withdrawal is justified only when we strive to realize in ourselves the higher aims of mankind. For although the sage remains distant from the turmoil of daily life, he creates incomparable human values for the future.

Such an attitude may be taken as a model.

This line is at the top, strong, and at the highest point of the trigram Ken, the mountain. Therefore it does not serve the king in the fifth place but sets its goals higher. It does not work for one era, but for the world and for all time.
-Wilhelm

 

[RindaR]

So, perhaps we can think of the world as "that which has been spoiled" and the sage as the one who is working on it....

Rinda

 

[Sparhawk]

Answer to your first question: yes.

See, for me that's an enormous leap of faith and I feel you may be taking the text too literally, which is fine if it works for you; but, let's repeat the line text:

"Nine in the top means:
He does not serve kings and princes,
Sets himself higher goals.


The line does not say he just walks away from it all by setting himself higher goals. There is mention of kings and princes in it. I don't think the mention is an accident.

Response to the second part of what you said: I'm trying to arrive at a meaning of 18.6. Despite the true things you say about the emperor, I don't see any of that as part of the meaning of 18.6. We're talking about working on what's spoiled here, not a lucky holiday from public service.

So... you don't see this within that context of working on the spoiled?? Perhaps you are missing the big picture of the metaphor... Each situation has two sides (many perhaps, but for the sake of argument, let's stick to two). In this particular one (18.6), one of them is the possibility of refusing to "work on what's spoiled" (or considered spoiled by the subject, a valid POV, of course). Which, BTW, I believe 18.6 is all about, a "refusal". The other is that for a person to set higher goals than those of his present means a personal disconformity with said present. The desire for personal cultivation, at the barest minimalist POV, is a constant disconformity with one's present state of spiritual advance and thus the pursuit of its improvement. Something that, within this context, can be seen as constantly working on what's perceived as "spoiled" (not up to mark; not good enough; no kosher; no "fill-in-the-blank with grievance" ad nauseam ...)

L

 

[Sparhawk]

So, perhaps we can think of the world as "that which has been spoiled" and the sage as the one who is working on it....

Rinda

That's what I think it is. Although Wilhelm was quite biased, his interpretation falls in line with the Confucian tradition of service "for the greater good". That's certainly a background interpretation of what the intention of the subject of 18.6 may be.

L

 

[martin]

I was thinking, does this line perhaps represent not so much a person but rather a state of consciousness? Like 'in the world but not of it'?
A man or woman in this state can outwardly play the game and serve the king (be in the world) and yet inwardly be not of the world.
And as long as he/she abstains from staring into the eyes of the king he/she would be quite safe.

Line 6 is the only line in which there is no mention of a parent (father or mother). But I guess the parent is still present, we only don't see him/her out there anymore, because he/she is inside. There is change of perspective, the subject of this line IS the parent. The ancestor.
Saturn in Pisces - a very old ancestor, older than the traditions of a culture perhaps, archetypal. The wisdom of time immemorial?

I cannot put it into Virgo-Mercury words. Let it go. Pisces!

 

[rosada]

I Ching, Astrology, Tarot

Wind/Wood - Mercury - The Magician...6th line - Virgo - The Hermit

Mercury in Virgo is known for having great powers to attend to detail, but also no desire to get bogged down in trivial matters. Perhaps the games of "kings and princes" in the I Ching are just such trivial matters. In tarot, the Hermit is the Magician grown old, perhaps the I Ching would say the son has now become the father himself? Anyway, the Hermit takes no pleasure in the childish manipulations of The Magician. He knows all the tricks now and prefers to renounce worldly pleasures to align with Higher Wisdom.

Mountain - Saturn - The World...6th line - Pisces - The Moon
Saturn in Pisces is profound spiritual understanding, and a sence of DUTY (Saturn) to THE LESS FORTUNATE (Pisces). The tarot symbol of the person dancing on top of the world next to the Moon card which is the scariest image of all suggests a certain fearlessness that comes when one understands the spiritual laws of how things can be spoiled and then made whole again.

Looking at these tarot images and considering the discussion as to whether the querent is trying to "fly under the radar" and avoid the kings, or if he is simply ignoring the games and pursuing his own calling, I am inclined to feel as dobro does, that the person of this conciousness is simply doing his own "higher" thing.

 

[dobro p]

"The line does not say he just walks away from it all by setting himself higher goals."

I think that's exactly what it says. The line reads:

Not affairs kings, lords
Honoring high his affair

He honors the high, not the affairs of kings and lords. I suppose you're right about him being under the radar after all though. Otherwise, how would he get away with it? But he's like Lao Tse riding off into the west on his ox - it's the leaving a whole set of values and concerns behind that's the main thrust of this line - and they're left behind for the sake of something better.

So, it's a whole shift of values and acting on that shift, which includes the freedom to do just that. Sweet.

Okay, question: that freedom to leave the world behind for the sake of higher values - does it represent one aspect of working on what's been spoiled? Or is it a matter of 'line 6 represents the passing of the influence and so it's not much of an issue any more'? Whatcha think?

 

[RindaR]

Isn't that at the heart of any real change? ...an inner change first?

One must change or clarify thinking/values/priorities before one can change one's behavior. It takes a change in behavior then, to change what's happening in one's outer world... ...at least that's how it seems to me to work.

oh - I see, ok - it could be saying that the behavior or situation came from pressure imposed by an outer source?

nah - then we're back to whether/how one responds to that pressure, the world outside...

hmmm...

Rinda

 

[bruce_g]

I don't see a big difference between Luis' metaphor and Dobro's explanation.

18.6 Ultimately, to set things right, you have to rise above what mommy and daddy think of you and what you do or don’t do; rise above what your boss, your political party, your pastor, your friends or peers, or your enemies think. There’s something higher which calls you, and that pulls you out of your rut.

 

[dobro p]

Luis was just talking about the people who don't have the freedom to do what you've just described.

 

[Sparhawk]

nah - then we're back to whether/how one responds to that pressure, the world outside...

hmmm...

Rinda

BTW, welcome back Rinda!!

L

 

[bruce_g]

Luis was just talking about the people who don't have the freedom to do what you've just described.

Really? I didn't get that. What I got was a picture of this life form, planted by the wind atop some god forsaken place, which winds up living a long, albeit windblown existence.

It may not be a tight fit into 18.6, but I see it as related. As though line 6 says “Become the tree.” A true metaphor isn’t like the object of the metaphor, it is the object.

 

[Sparhawk]

Luis was just talking about the people who don't have the freedom to do what you've just described.

Before I answer your previous question, I wasn't just talking about that. Yes, it is one aspect of the situation as I interpret it but not the focus of it all. It is something to be considered in the situation. While you may set your goals, it doesn't mean a straight path to them and I saw the "kings and princes" as hurdles in the way. But, overall I certainly agree with the premise of "leaving it all and pursuing higher goals" as a path to spiritual cultivation.

He honors the high, not the affairs of kings and lords. I suppose you're right about him being under the radar after all though. Otherwise, how would he get away with it? But he's like Lao Tse riding off into the west on his ox - it's the leaving a whole set of values and concerns behind that's the main thrust of this line - and they're left behind for the sake of something better.

Agreed. Also, I think the Lao Tse's example is a very good one and fits the context of the line perfectly. A retired subject that decides to continue his cultivation away from mundane concerns.

So, it's a whole shift of values and acting on that shift, which includes the freedom to do just that. Sweet.

Yes, that's what I was trying to say. Setting goals for oneself, although a most important step, is not enough to reach them. One must account for the hurdles in the way. Freedom to do it may not be a given and may have to be negotiated, walked around, "work on the spoiled" to achieve it.

Okay, question: that freedom to leave the world behind for the sake of higher values - does it represent one aspect of working on what's been spoiled? Or is it a matter of 'line 6 represents the passing of the influence and so it's not much of an issue any more'? Whatcha think?

IMHO, yes, I think it is an aspect of "working on the spoiled". Any goal set on the improvement of oneself is a way of working on something that is "less than perfect". A meaningful life is "working on the spoiled". Perhaps the change, the real shift in attitude and values, is recognizing that it is time to focus some of the time you have left in life on yourself, after spending your time pleasing "kings and princes" and thus the greater good.

Two ways to do it when "kings and princes" are a real or perceived concern (a possible obstacle in the way): 1. asking for dispensation after a life of service; or 2. being either a perfect stranger to them or seemingly worthless (what I meant about flying under their radar).

Of course, in a greater context, perhaps too obvious to be readily apparent, is that, even though "kings and princes" have a real historical context, in the real and present life of the querent, they are a metaphor for all the obstacles presented in the way to our "higher goals" by those that have power or influence in our lives and/or have a vested interest in us. IMHO, that is.

To recap, I think the querent will not have a paved road on the way to reach his "higher goals".

L

 

[dobro p]

IMHO, yes, I think it is an aspect of "working on the spoiled". Any goal set on the improvement of oneself is a way of working on something that is "less than perfect". A meaningful life is "working on the spoiled".

Okay, so 18.6 is about working on what's been spoiled. But the fact that it's the sixth line and the influence imaged in the hexagram is at or near its end and waning like a moon is what gives the person with the higher values the opportunity to leave other big stuff behind, right? The time favors his exit, in other words. No paved road. But in tune with the cosmos, right?

 

[rosada]

Kings and princes are the highest authorities on the earthly plane. The sage recognizes that this earthly plane is just a mental construct and does not alter his understanding to fit with it. An example might be a doctor pronouncing a patient dead. The patient might be the owner - the king - of the hospital but the doctor doesn't change his ruling. He's following a Higher Truth and no one can deny his knowingness trumps the king's.

While there are instances where a wise man must hide his light, I don't see that being the message of 18.6. Indeed, 18.6 is the line at the very top of the mountain, the most visable. Further, the message of hex 18 is about how to work on what has been spoiled. It seems to me the guidance has been about working for the highest good/ highest truth. When one is aiming for the highest good, profit and fame - kings and princes - do not appeal, and when looking for the highest truth the various degenerative influencs that can spoil the good, lose their power. Crossing the river refers to a task big enough to require the kind of single minded dedication that developes such focus. As I write this I remember the image of the Vietnam soldier carrying his wounded comrade. When asked, he replied, "He ain't heavy, he's my brother."

Point I'm trying to make here is that 18.6 does NOT comment on whether the exit will be difficult, rather tells how moving on can be made easy: Don't focus the attention on transitory issues, set yourself loftier goals and the petty stuff will take care of itself.

 

[Trojina]

Point I'm trying to make here is that 18.6 does NOT comment on whether the exit will be difficult, rather tells how moving on can be made easy: Don't focus the attention on transitory issues, set yourself loftier goals and the petty stuff will take care of itself.

Used to get this line over and over in a period where most of my focus was inward but I kept thinking 'I really must make some money etc etc yet I had no interest since alot was happening inside my head. Hmm persoanlly I don't think this this line is about serving others much at all or following causes, more about the inner journey, ones own path. I guess I agree with what Luis has said pretty much. If you choose to do this and turn your attention away from the outer world I don't think theres an easy way to do this and I do not think society, the 'kings and princes' in any way gives approval or support . Unless you're a monk ? I don't think the petty stuff does take care of itself, you still need money for food, you still have to pay your rent. I don't think this line promises if you focus on 'loftier goals' all will be okay. I think it just saying thats what you are doing, and there is as Luis says a 'refusal' there. To follow through one needs to evade the harrassment of society hellbent on stopping you going inwards. To do this I can see how Luis says you might just have to appear 'useless' to society, go under the radar to be left to get on with it in peace, or find some other way.

I

 

[Sparhawk]

Point I'm trying to make here is that 18.6 does NOT comment on whether the exit will be difficult, rather tells how moving on can be made easy: Don't focus the attention on transitory issues, set yourself loftier goals and the petty stuff will take care of itself.

Fine. It is a possible interpretation, yes; a straight thru, very literal one of the text. A very uncomplicated and auspicious interpretation (although I don't see any "Great Venture" in there...) However, whenever I read something like the setting of "goals", be it on the Yijing or in a board meeting, and this is my point, I rather plan for who and/or what can place obstacles in my path to them. IMO, and I repeat, the mention of "kings and princes" is there for a reason, whoever draws this line must plan for hurdles. Petty stuff, if not taken care of and left to their own devises, can snowball...

L

 

[Sparhawk]

All this serious stuff is killing me...

L

 

[rosada]

Indeed!

Well time to post hex 19, a loftier goal than beating this dead issue!

 

[Sparhawk]

Indeed!

Well time to post hex 19, a loftier goal than beating this dead issue!

Spoiled issue, yes; dead issue, no... Should be worked on...

L

 

[bruce_g]

I think there’s something being missed here. Every line of 18 refers to dealing with early influences of father or mother, and their father and mother, and their father and mother, etc. That is what’s being left behind here – all those influences, those voices and memories in your head, everything you were supposed to be, according to them. Tradition has led to stagnation, and it’s time to reinvent yourself.

 

[heylise]

Four of the lines start with "stem-father/mother". Only one line has no father or mother. Ancestors where usually named after their stem, the astrological sign of birth. Father Jia (father Wood), mother Geng (mother Metal).
In the lines the personal names are replaced by the general 'stem' instead of a personal one, because an oracle has to apply to many different situations.

LiSe

 

[heylise]

In the top line the father or mother is not mentioned, but there it expands to everything the mind can be "child" to. Campbell calls it "grovelling before the facts", behaving mentally like a child, without a discerning ability of one's own.

Kings and lords, literally or metaphorically.

LiSe

 

[Sparhawk]

I think there’s something being missed here. Every line of 18 refers to dealing with early influences of father or mother, and their father and mother, and their father and mother, etc. That is what’s being left behind here – all those influences, those voices and memories in your head, everything you were supposed to be, according to them. Tradition has led to stagnation, and it’s time to reinvent yourself.

Ha! Very interesting point you bring to this, Bruce. I was mentioning this morning that I was working on something in Spanish about Buddhism and the Yijing in Japan. In researching this I came to this refutal argument made by Confucianists against the use by Buddhist of the Yijing to support their beliefs in karmic retribution and three lives transmigration of the soul, etc. While Buddhist would believe in a karmic cycle of past life-present-after life the Confucianist view was that all occurs within three generations (i.e. grandparents-self-children). Here is a quote of something written by Arai Hakuseki (1657-1725) in his Kishinron (Discourse on Gods and Ghosts), in which he discusses good and evil retribution in the present life only and only in terms of individuals and families (the saying quote comes from the Wen Yen of K'un):

The common saying of the people in this world is "A house that heaps that heaps good upon good is sure to have an abundance of blessings. A house that heaps evil upon evil is sure to have an abundance of ills." However, we have seen many cases where good people did no get this blessing, and bad people did. Hence Buddhism advocates the theory of transmigration in three lifetimes in order to explain this phenomenon. According to this theory, good people have misfortunes because they are repaying the bad karma of previous lives. If they have repaid all their sins, they will definitely receive blessings in their afterlife. Bad people receive blessings in this life because they did good deeds in a previous life. Once the reward has ended, they are bound to have misfortunes in their afterlife. I think this theory grasps the truth of trivial things but ignores the truth of very important things... In the I Ching, you can also find the idea of the accumulation of good and evil. In a family, the grandfather at the top and the offsprings at the bottom, the person himself in the middle and his uncles and cousins on both sides are together called this name (i.e. three generations, or san shih). Despite the name "san shih," it only concerns the present life of an individual. Although the sages said that it [i.e. retribution] would pass through the upper, middle, and lower levels and down through thousands of generations, it only involves one family.

L

 

[Sparhawk]

In the top line the father or mother is not mentioned, but there it expands to everything the mind can be "child" to. Campbell calls it "grovelling before the facts", behaving mentally like a child, without a discerning ability of one's own.

Kings and lords, literally or metaphorically.

LiSe

Thank you! I spent quite a bit of prose that I could use to joke around trying to explain something like this. In effect, 18.6 could also be seen as growing up and wanting to become independent and recognizing that, in the background, there are always those that came before us, those that taught us about life, those that have authority over us, those that nourished us, AND, those that still can exert power over us, be it directly or indirectly. Not a free-for-all attitude where you just pack and go to pursue your "higher goals".

L

 

[Sparhawk]

Unless of course, you are one of those blessed beings, fully aware of their own potential and that choose to remain anonymous to be able to pursue their own spiritual goals: "A useless tree"

L

 

[heylise]

I think the useless tree does make a lot of sense here. If you can accept becoming a useless tree, then you acquire the freedom to pursue your own goals, free from any expectation or admiration of others, either outside or in your own mind.

Interesting, the 3 generations:
Chinese astrology gives the signs for year, month, day and hour, the day is 'you', the month your parents, the year grandparents, and the hour your child.
But all together is you.

LiSe

 

[bruce_g]

Luis, interesting stuff. Your quote reminded me of The Godfather . But really, there are counterparts to this in all cultures, inlcuding Biblical - the sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the sons, etc.

 

[dobro p]

IMO, and I repeat, the mention of "kings and princes" is there for a reason, whoever draws this line must plan for hurdles.

Of course 'kings and princes' are there for a reason, but the reason could just as easily be an indication of WHAT'S TO BE LEFT BEHIND rather than an indication of hurdles and obstructions to come.

See, you've got a suspicious and wary personality, just like me, so you scan for difficulties and things that might jerk you around or thwart you. Do you see how your personality might be projecting meaning onto 18.6 which is either not there, or not there for many people?

 

[dobro p]

In the top line the father or mother is not mentioned, but there it expands to everything the mind can be "child" to. Campbell calls it "grovelling before the facts", behaving mentally like a child, without a discerning ability of one's own.

Kings and lords, literally or metaphorically.

Yes. Kings and lords are parents to us, psychologically, because they have power over us, power to protect or punish.