Oh dear all this talk of love I'm getting carried away..

[sasha]

I was reading up on some stuff on ( http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/hex_1-16/hex_e_02.htm )
and i thought i'd check out hex 2 because of your post.

" The earth lies motionless, time after time. Nothing moves, nothing lives. But deep in her darkness something is waiting. Patient, or asleep.
Then the energy and the vibrations of thunderstorms touch her, and suddenly she is all over vibrant with life. Lightning, thunder, rain, they come and go suddenly, but a whole year of luxuriant growth has started. Day after day more life, but the earth herself did not change. She is eternal dark, quiet and patient. "
I read very much positive for you in this. finding strength in you that just waits to be found.
And the thunderstorms touch you, upset you and wake you up to regain your light and life. for yourself, detached from this situation. But without it you wouldn't have been awoken, and therefore you should be glad you experienced it, even though it was tough ( well tough is maybe an understatement, the word is more SUCKED big time )

I also find it interesting that the term HER is used here. The whole text is saturated with female power, i think (i take it that you are a female?)

Well thought I'd just share that with you

 

[em ching]

Hi again

"Not being nice, but being true. Not human love but superhuman devotion." is maybe what you should do. Be true towards yourself. It is still ok to love him a bit but don't try to marginalize his problems and make excuses...
(you know everything I tell you goes for me too...)
--------

What is your view on this thiese days?

how is it going with the - 2.3, 5, 6 The Receptive > 53 Gradual Process

Hello,

Well I've decided to just be true to myself yes, and that means communicating with him so long as he remains interested/ we get along and I guess benefit from each others input....

But spot on with the idea of distancing myself... He's too fascinated with other things which probably don't involve caring for me.... So I shan't expect that of him.... I just wish I didn't let myself get carried away on this type of thing... which from the outside in probably seems kind of warped, self-damaging and a blatant refusal of the reality of the situation... but the heart is alien to the head, and way too hopeful sometimes for something probably from a fairy tale...

But I do feel independent from his influence.... So it should be fine. My answers seem to be encouraging friendship too.... So I am not about to throw away a connection because I may be disappointed not getting what I think I want from it... or being able to change the person's perspective and open their eyes to certain elements of life, but I guess if it's not there...

I'm just worried about letting the door open for his hurt to hurt me... But maybe I just need to try and not worry about him so much... perhaps he's not as angry and numb inside as he makes out... I hope..

I guess Hex 2 says remain open to it.. I like the attention you brought to it talking of the power of the feminine role (though as a feiminist i am not a fan of the notion of roles but then to some extent I guess they are necessary!) and I guess here is saying holding back and not needing more.. Independent woman and all that! And I guess also reminding me that relationships take time to reach any sort of resolution but for now perhaps relax into receptive mode about it... and as it pans out I'll get my answer....

:bows:

 

[em ching]

hi there!

"show me yours ad I'll show you mine": I was only referring to a view that has been around lately in this forum, namely that it is always better if the person asking posts his/her understanding of their readings first, and then it's easier for other people to jump in and offer suggestions . . Because this a nice way to learn and more fruitful than waiting for anyone else to give their opinion, because it is your life after all and because noone has all the answers or THE answer . .


rodaki

Yeah I'm definitely trying on that front! Very enriching to get deeper into the hexgrams... although sometimes I feel I'm clutching at straws

 

[em ching]

Hello,

Well I have emailed him, I received 45 unchanging, which seemed to suggest I should - express my perspective.. However, I now feel that I should have been more honest about the things I don't agree with - things he says that aren't right.. but at the same time that might be futile...

So I asked What was his reaction to the email?

53.4 > 33

Seems to be saying he is uncomfortable, perhaps he senses my advances have slightly more behind them than just friendship, so he is retreating? But the presence of 53 perhaps means it'll be a gradual retreat? Or perhaps it's saying he has physically retreated from the vicinity? Or is it more in his head retreating?

I then read some old threads on 53.4 and 33.4.

So many AHA! Moments which I shall share here:

Anyway : even though 53 can bode well for long-term commitment, in this case, and re your questions, the 4th line emphasis might be "short-term" resting place. there is no blame in finding a flat branch to rest on, but it is not the natural habitat for the goose. It is temporary. Maybe that is an obvious way to say that this man is looking for a temporary place of refuge with you. BUT since it also gave you the same reading for what YOU want, maybe in your deepest heart, you TOO are looking for the non-committal relationship. Consciously, you might say you want more, but frequently if women look for love in "unavailable" men, they don't really want the whole enchilada. the reason could be fear of commitment, fear of loss...but the fear gets disguised behind "falling in love" with men who can't give them the real thing. There is "no blame" in this, there is no moral judgement.

53:4 - "find a FLAT branch" (flat, as in screen)
29:4 - "simply handed in through the window"

I joke you not, these two lines have proved, for me at least, in the past to
refer to computers, plus line 55:5 ("lines are coming") to refer to emails!?!

So, in this case, i'd say the answer says to you this 'flat branch' is fine,
you can retreat there for now. It does not sound like a permanent solution
of course, but it will do for now.

33.4

A gradual planned out retreat. So 53 is is saying the retreat should be gradual. Either a retreat like not paying attention to what they do or say. Maybe even leaving the job. If its leaving the job. They shouldnt leave the job immediately. They should plan it out and make sure things are in order. The 4th line is saying that the person who will lose in the retreat is the immature person. Dont indulge in negative emotions. That's all for now. Peace.

33.4 says it is because those they abuse put up with it, let them get away with it. Those who feel abused should withdraw, but since they do not, the abusers are allowed to continue on and since if no one stops them, they will 53. "Gradually Progress" amassing wealth. In other words, it's not God rewarding them, it is the natural consequence of nobody stopping them. Perhaps a more helpful question would be why do people allow themselves to be abused?

33.4 has it's effect in 53.4, when is time for evil influence, the best thing to do is find a secure place to let this time pass (and this time will pass) until the time for Noble people returns.

I'm getting from this line that if ethical people withdraw from working with - shoring up, supporting - unethical people, then the unethical people will fall down.

Rather, as people of goodwill we must do something. Even if we are so powerless that all we can do is Retreat, that is a most powerful responce - one which will eventually topple evil.

So, the cause of success of evil people is not in the changing line (good-will people are supporting evil people), but in the hex as a whole (there are times when evil influences arises as a cosmical fact)

53 as tendential invites us to follw the right, fair and gradual Path, no matter if this can be seen as "slow" development related to evil people's development.

In a nutshell would you say I am being told he is a bad person and there's nothing I can do about it? Perhaps it won't always be so, but for now he is stuck in that mode? Or am I being arrogant in thinking he's bad - perhaps it is all talk (I asked if he was and received 10.3, 5 Treading > 14 Possession in great measure)

Or simply that I am not the right perch for him at all? Probably because I see things quite differently... though I thought perhaps that was a good thing.. not encouraging some of his bad tendencies.. bring a fresh perspective... yin and yang? I don't know.... I want to be his friend but if he is true to his word on some of his outlooks, then I don't know how I fit in...

An objective interpretation on what this all amounts to would be so appreciated. Thanks for reading.

:bows:

 

[sasha]

"the fear gets disguised behind "falling in love"

I think this is the key for the whole thing. In all the complexity of these kind of situations, specially when it all goes the wrong way all sorts of things are wearing loves clothes. Doesn't it seem like one loves the person even more then before when ti goes this way? What fuel this sudden outburst of love?

I dont know you, and i dont know him, but all this from your last post sounds like everything that has already been said.
Move away, (search yourself and your feelings and see the positive in not having him around...

I would expect the yi jing to answer things you dont expect when you ask if someone is "bad". I dont think thats how it works. He may be bad in you two context but he is hardly bad universally.

On the other hand, now that you feel like you feel about all those sides of him that you describe; when you think about this as much as you do and so... How can you have a real, neutral relationship then? Even if you get together, Will you, truly be able to see through those things....

I know this is much easier said then done... trust me...

 

[em ching]

Yeah of course. I know he's not wholly bad and nothing's black and white..
It is also stupid because I have been here with him before... It's just unfortunate that I see him in this way as well as just friends.. which I think is all he sees...

Ah well. I'm bad with obsessive thoughts I guess.. But, perhaps indicated by hex 2, it has spurred some creativity in me which is good, and in no way do I feel depressed about the whole thing. Just a feeling of yearning... which of course takes time until it no longer pulls at me..

:bows:

 

[em ching]

well saga over I reckon.

Where now with regards to me?

33 unchanging.

But, what I don't get is why the Yi seemed to be encouraging permanence in the relationship (though probs as friends) Because I have a feeling he has sensed that I am looking for more and has thus retreated. Though perhaps not a permanent retreat from my life? Perhaps he didn't like what I said to him last..

ah shucks.
I feel like the Yi has just mirrored everything - all the developments in my head regarding this person, and now there's nothing, if he has indeed retreated from me.
Though perhaps I am jumping to the worst.

Do you consider 33 as a retreat physically? Or mentally?

I guess he is important as I enjoy conversing with him, but perhaps I have read too much into everything and over analysed things, and he has sensed this.. maybe I've been too involved and now he's backing away from my probing

Who was I kidding thinking I could be independent from this and not let it dis-hearten me...

 

[em ching]

Just to add (though I do seem to be having a dialogue with myself mostly
That I think Retreat was more speaking to me - Stop asking darned questions on the issue, which you know in your heart cannot be black and white! It is all 53 - the truth takes time to become illuminated.
I was too quick to jump to the worst conclusion - waiting for that self-fulfilling prophecy - Still learning...

 

[rodaki]

hi em ching,

one comment that has really helped me with 33 came from Maremaria in the memorizing thread 33 where she mentioned about a sketching/painting practice where one takes a step back to see the dynamics of forms and patterns from afar . .
Ever since I'm seeing retreat as exactly this move: take a step back, take the whole thing in, get away from the trivial details, and it could stand for the both of you . .

cheers!
rodaki

 

[em ching]

Thanks Rodaki. Yeah I feel I have done that
I'm out of the emotional whirlwind I created in my head over it.
It's fine.


:bows:

 

[em ching]

Weell.. just thought I'd share something re this relationship.
Met with him and it was all good - friends - he seemed happier - but I felt, in the dynamic, something lacking, a lack of ease I suppose (53.4 very fitting!)
But at the same time not... familiarity kind of... I don't know it's weird.. perhaps it just relates to the fact that when a man and woman are friends, there may probably be a romantic attraction on one side.. and so it gets confused because it isn't more, though if that one key ingredient was there you'd have the lot

I guess you get something different from everyone- nourishment for the different layers of your onion...

When I thought I'd never see him again (sheesh I catastrophize so badly - especially when it comes to other people - Willowfox's words 'everyone is not out to get you' should be tattooed on my arm!)

I asked What is the final judgement on this relationship?
49.5 > 55

Tiger does not change is stripes! Relating to what Sasha pointed out, you can't have a relationship (well a romantic one anyway) with someone that you'd want to change... well at least aspects of them...

Or positive spin: 9 at 5: The great one changes like a tiger. Even before the augury truth is evident.
Who acts and reacts open and honest and clearly visible, will find belief. Openness has more power of expression than any explanation. He is the one who can persuade others towards the good changes.

(Lise)


Before meeting I received 17 Following (perhaps pointing to meeting naturally and with ease without alterior motives or expectations, just friends - which is how it went

Then, I asked, Could you illuminate on the nature relationship?
Because, although I know it is platonic, I do have feelings.... residual feelings that I can't quite shush... but I know it is just friendship, could go no further because the dynamic just doesn't exist... perhaps in an alternate Universe....

Anyway, I received 45 Unchanging

Two very friendly Hexagrams

But, as the hex is unchanging, I suppose it isn't necessarily saying we're the closest of friends (that i have perhaps embelished it in my head) Because the lines also point to a chance gathering ie not meaning that much... Pehaps I have projected onto the friendship a desire for it to mean more, or be more special than it is in reality. Yes friends, but still quite different, and so perhaps it is saying it is good to be friends, but the connection is not as deep or important as I have made out in my head.

Would you agree?

Thanks
:bows:

 

[em ching]

Wow - it could have something to do with this (taken from
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=1406

It's about a spiritual connection... gathering together on the spiritual plane. My stranger feeling was him... his spirit... connecting with me... my spirit, and I felt it. So...


This kind of love doesn't necessarily materialize (or incarnate) in physical meetings.

(Hopeless romantic idealist!)
I guess I question the existence of this so much though, because if it hadn't occurred to the other party, you'd feel a bit foolish

Hmm, how to read it... I wish there was an ultimate interpretation guide book - but I guess that'd be against the thoughtful nature of the Yi

This is also relevant to our meeting, where, I guess because it was important to me for it to go well, I felt I wasn't being interesting enough:

Bradford, gathering together myself is just as appropriate advice as gathering "us" together. Seeker, remembering to have faith (confidence) in myself is just as important as sharing faith with the other, and Calumet, even gathering together my inner experience and having faith in all that I am inside is related here.

 

[em ching]

One final reading on the subject.. said person is going away, big effect on me (as you may have noticed) and I'd just like an objective reading of the following;

What am I to him?

14.1, 4 > 18

Lots of relevant ideas here... perhaps, first of all the answer is more to the question - what is he to me? (ie the Yi referring to my approach rather than his - perhaps we just shouldn't ask about others feelings full stop.)

So - Line 1 - not always easy communication, probs because so different - maybe that's why I'm so interested!, and perhaps not expecting so much (line 4 - too much pride which I keep wanting to be validated by others?) But overall 14 speaks of value here?

Then 18 - not a smooth ride, but having to work on something makes it all the more wothwhile?

Would really appreciate hearing your instant, detached views on this reading...
And I am going to endevour to detach myself from all of this now because I think I have covered/ explored all the angles of why the relationship has affected me so much, and it has probably reached some sort of crecendo now and is on the wane...

:bows:

 

[em ching]

Anyone? Siginificant relationship or on the wane because it's in my head?

:bows: