Qi crashes

[RindaR]

Candid -

...it's one of those ongoing problems I have... and referred as much to an earlier off-forum note as to the one above.

Namaste-

Rinda

 

[candid]

I don't think there's anyone here who hasn't wrestled with these same things at one time or other. That's one of the illuminating things about Yi, there's only so may conditions which a human can experience, and they are common to all. Only things separating are the time and degree of experiencing. One loses sleep while another seeks refuge there, but we all share the same limited energy field.

Right, Dij?

 

[dij]

Continuing exploration of Yi..

Candid, you said, "?what is the cause of this periodic extreme fatigue?? and received 22. "

I looked for various takes on 22 and found this, 22
<FONT COLOR="0000ff">"In hexagram 22 we find that facades can be important for social survival, but one must be weary of mistaking them for reality; There is at times a tendency to suck-out the inner light to prop up the outer. The context gives us the linking of words with facts (15) in the correct order (63) and thus establishing an attractive 'look' or attitude; linking things together generates 'value'."</FONT>

also, I like this one, which I use the most: eclecticeneregies 22

I also found the very strange 22 as well. It talks about enlightenment coming like a flying horse (?), which reminds me, what were you on about with the horse analogies the other day in first ever chat?

----

While the reading of 22 will be interpreted according to each person's individual proclivities, it is fascinating to see the range of Yi as expressed thorugh everyone's interpretation.
Hilary's so right, "how Yi ever gets any sense into people'" is exactly right.

looks like a fish to me..

 

[dij]

uh huh..talk about synchronicity..
right on candid

 

[candid]

Dij, heh heh

"There is at times a tendency to suck-out the inner light to prop up the outer." Wow.

The bit about the horse in our voice conversation had to do with the reading of 26.3, which was cast for the meeting. It was the beginning of a topic which we didn't follow through with.

 

[candid]

A progress report to you helpful people: I've not gotten Melatonin yet but I've taken Valerian the last two nights, an hour before bedtime. Improvement in length and depth of sleep have been impressive so far. However, I'm still in crash cycle so its hard to tell what results will be once back on the up cycle. Will keep you posted. I plan on picking up Melatonin tomorrow and trying it as well.

Thanks again.

 

[bradford_h]

Hi Candid-
Happy for your zzzz's.
Just remember tho - Valerian is just for symptoms.
Melatonin might go to the root of the problem, if that happens to be that your body no longer makes enough. And it does take some time to work.
Pleasant dreams.
b

 

[Sparhawk]

Hi Candid, I'm happy the Valerian works for you.

Here is something else to try in the long term that was brought to my attention:

Ginseng

Ginseng 2

Now, this is long term and is related to Qi imbalances.

I hope you feel better,

Luis

 

[candid]

Thank you. Noted and remembered.

 

[jte]

Candid, nothing to add to the good advice above, but hope your sleep situation improves!

- Jeff

 

[cheiron]

I would add a caution to what Luis says re. Ginseng.

First it is prone to increase blood pressure and second it is a powerful stimulant. There are also two different types and that too is important.

When one is exhausted it can drive the body even harder causing the exhaustion to become much worse in the long run.

When I was ill with exhaustion I had a very good herbalist - she threw her hands up in horror when I suggested Ginseng...

IMHO - Better to address the energy imbalance with something like acupuncture and of course plenty of rest.

--Kevin

 

[candid]

Thanks, Kevin.

I?ve taken ginseng supplements for extended periods before, and have marked the increased energy, like a clear buzz. As for the dangers of awakening Qi through such herbal stimulation, it is real, but so are potential dangers of several other ingredients, such as found in a powerful vitamin supplement like bee pollen. Also, often a more active waking time produces a more restful resting time. I think in this case, the energy balance is off because waking time has been too stagnant, too much stored energy built up with nowhere to go (hence the energy collapse). So I?d only take something like ginseng to make the most of activity, preferably inclusive of physical as well as mental energy.

 

[cheiron]

Sounds like you have it sussed - probably more than me

--K

 

[candid]

Well, I get by with a little help from my friends.

 

[Sparhawk]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

I would add a caution to what Luis says re. Ginseng.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Kevin,

I will not argue your comments about ginseng because I don't have the knowledge required. I've had heard before about precautions to take before an operation, for example, where you are supposed to suspend your intake of herbs like ginseng and ginko before such an event and this must surely connect with your words of caution somewhere.

On the other hand, I also received a strong word of caution related to melatonin and the person who uttered them was as concern about advising people to take a hormone on an ad-hoc basis as you are about ginseng. So... what the heck! We may as well stick to plain h20 and pray...

Luis

 

[candid]

I asked Yi just now, ?managing Qi today?? Answer: 32.2 changing to 62.

Check out this Wilhelm commentary on line 2:

?The situation is abnormal. A man's force of character is greater than the available material power. Thus he might be afraid of allowing himself to attempt something beyond his strength. However, since it's the time of DURATION, it's possible for him to control his inner strength and so to avoid excess. Cause for remorse then disappears.?

Gotta love it.

 

[Sparhawk]

Are chills still running up and down your spine or has the sense of wonder subsided?

The Yi is an amazing thing.

L

 

[cheiron]

Hi Luis - Just a penny worth - I am no herbalist

BTW H2O has killed a lot of people who used in excess - Please be very careful. chuckles?

Candid ? Splendid - Do you think the Yijing might work then?

Chuckles...

--Kevin

 

[hilary]

What, not dihydrogen monoxide?
Don't say you weren't warned. It is routinely included in 'healthy' herbal tea preparations, too...

 

[RindaR]

I've seen people come close to death with too much water - but it takes a whole lot of it!! (Gallons! - Wrong dose!

) It's called water intoxication or diabetes insipidus (Not to be confused with "sugar diabetes").

Glad you are turning the corner with this Candid.

Rinda

 

[cheiron]

Hi Rinda

Yup, especially if it realy deep and they are poor swimmers

--Kevin

 

[candid]

Yeah, I'm beginning to think there actually is something to this I Ching thing.

 

[Sparhawk]

Hi Kevin, et al,

I have been exchanging messages with Steve Marshall about this issue since I recommended melatonin to Candid. Here is a message from him regarding the issue of ginseng and related to your comments and concerns. The message is unedited and comes with his permission to post it. Here it is:


<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

Well Kevin proves a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, ie some truth but
not the whole truth. Ginseng can both raise *and* lower the blood pressure,
dependent on a number of factors, if it's very high it can lower it and if
it's low it can raise it. But common sense dictates that if you have high
blood pressure and are taking medication for it you shouldn't take ginseng
without discussing it with a doctor, who would probably advise against if
you are already on blood pressure medicine. There is also a superstition
that women shouldn't take ginseng, but take dong quai instead. I've never
been able to work this one out and am not sure whether there is anything in
it. I think that may be based on the idea that ginseng is "too yang" for
women, ie not based necessarily on sound medical principles. I think there
is no harm in a woman experimenting with it to see.

Ginseng is *not* a stimulant. This is a complete misunderstanding. Kevin's
herbalist doesn't sound particularly good, it would be interesting to know
why she wouldn't recommend ginseng for exhaustion since this is precisely an
excellent use for it. If she is genuinely qualified to speak, then maybe
there were other factors Kevin has not mentioned. If you are tired, ginseng
can make you carry on as if you weren't, but if you want to go to sleep, it
won't stop you. It is not a stimulant as caffeine is, it is, for want of a
better word, a balancer and equaliser. Ginseng was taken by horsemen on long
long journeys to stop them falling off their horses from exhaustion, perhaps
Kevin's herbalist would like to give them a ticking off.

There are actually three types of ginseng, Kevin is presumably bringing in
Siberian ginseng here. The ginseng I recommend is Panax ginseng, and red
Korean is Panax ginseng (as is white, the red form is simply "cured").
American ginseng is a different plant, Panax quinquefolium, but acts much
like P. ginseng, though is not as good.

I can't post to Clarity, perhaps you can pass along these humble comments
from a ginseng aficionado and ex-Lancet editor on my behalf. I'm not a
qualified herbalist, but then again I once met a qualified acupuncturist who
had a very impressive certificate on his wall. I asked how long he had to
study to get that and he said, proudly, 'Oh, three weeks, it was a long
course...'

On a side note, I see you say suspend ginseng before an operation... on the
contrary it is generally recomended to take ginseng for a week *before* an
operation to reduce the stress of it. As ever, depends who you ask, so
always make sure you ask the right person.

all the best

Steve<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cheers,

Luis

 

[Sparhawk]

Furthermore,

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

You can add that the book "The Tao of Medicine" by Dr Stephen Fulder is all about
ginseng and is very well worth reading.

Steve<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, if we have been paying any attention, Steve doesn't recommend books lightly.

Luis

 

[cheiron]

Ahh - Steve seems to agree with my little knowledge after a bit of umming and ahhing... chuckles.

Secondly perhaps he misunderstood - My herbalist was treating me for chronic exhaustion (Post Viral Fatigue) - a case of don't whip the donkey when it has totally collapsed.

As for her being a poor herbalist - she was the best I have ever met... good enough to practice from a GP (General Practice medical clinic).

Well Steve always did have a gentle way of putting his case.

Perhaps it would be unworthy of me to mention her 5 year training and membership of the Institute of Herbalists

A little knowledge etc

Interesting nevertheless.

--Kevin

 

[dij]

"Ginseng was taken by horsemen on long
long journeys to stop them falling off their horses from exhaustion, perhaps
Kevin's herbalist would like to give them a ticking off. "

Actually, Amphetamines do the same for fraction of the price. eh heh

I think there is something to be said for allowing one's body to naturally reach the reacharged state.

Hey Candid, good to see you all sparky again.

 

[heylise]

Female.
Using Ginseng capsules for 3 years now, 3 daily.
Balances both my sleep- and waking needs: I sleep better, and I am more alert during the day.

LiSe

 

[Sparhawk]

Well,

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

Well Steve always did have a gentle way of putting his case.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Steve, will always be Steve.

He doesn't mince words, specially when he firmly believes in what he's saying. No hesitation and that's fine with me. Mind you, I've had my very own skirmishes in the past with Steve but I found that I agree more than I disagree with him.

Nevertheless, I don't believe he meant to hurt anybody's feelings.

Luis

 

[hilary]

A couple of things. Of course Steve can post here if he wants to - probably he means he doesn't want to. Posting via quotation is a great idea: thanks, Luis.

On a different subject altogether - I'm starting to wonder whether I should be paranoid about all the medical advice being dished out here. I know Candid won't sue me if melatonin and ginseng make him come out in spots (right, Candid?), but do I need a legal disclaimer?? (Or just a few deep breaths?)

BTW, I think - no guarantee of accuracy here at all - that ginseng, like St John's Wort, may interfere with the efficacy of the Pill. Not that this is of immediate concern to Candid, but something to check up on for any young women browsing through...

 

[cheiron]

Thanks Luis - No my feelings are not hurt so much as I was a little surprised at his vigour... and yes, I too agree with him more often than not.

My ?get me through the day? is Cocoanut water. We ran tests in our office... Someone had bought a case of cartons of it and shared it. We all found (separately) that we experienced marked falls in our stress levels without any sedation.

So we gave some to other workers and observed them... same thing.

We later found that it is taken "By Brazilian men to cool their heat"

One wonders... I have a case of it in my boot.

Point taken Hilary?

--Kevin