Quick question about nuclear hexagrams

[Dianadm]

Hi,

I am trying to understand how nuclears work.
For instance, if I have a 48.2.3>8 and a 16.6>35 (both related with the same reading) which nuclear should I take? Only 48 and 16 (the two original hex), 8 and 35, or all of them?

And what they exactly represent? The core of the problem?

Thanks

 

[dfreed]

For instance, if I have a 48.2.3>8 and a 16.6>35 (both related with the same reading) which nuclear should I take?

As I see it, if you have 48>8 and 16>35 you have two readings; however, in this case they are related to the same question or issue or situation.

I can't really speak to nuclear hexagrams (since I don't make use of them), but regarding nuclear trigrams (lines 2,3,4 and 3,4,5): I think these (like the nuclear hexagrams) are loosely defined, but I often see these as representing additional information, or 'helping hands' - i.e. the Hexagram is telling you to get your seasonal flu vaccination and the nuclear trigrams are saying that it's also helpful to eat right, get enough sleep, and maintain a healthy attitude. They might also represent some 'hidden' aspects to the situation that would be useful to look at and consider. And as you said, some people see these as representing some 'core' or 'root' issue or problem - or even a core solution!

And these nuclear trigram 'tips' might apply to the nuclear hexagrams as well. In either case, however, I suggest you use them with some restraint, so that these nuclear 'gua' (hexagram or trigram figures) don't become the main focus of your reading - and if they seem too confusing or contradictory, I'd consider setting them aside, at least for the time being.

I imagine that 'figuring out' what the nuclear's mean or represent, or how they can be of use is a matter of working with them. For example, you could do a reading and once you have a good sense of what you think it means, try adding in a nuclear (or nuclear's) and 'try them on for size' as a core issue, or a core part of the solution, or as a hidden aspect, or as an additional 'helper', etc. etc. -- and see what works for you and what doesn't.

Similarly, as to which I'd use if I were looking at two readings about the same issue? Well, perhaps you already have more than enough information to sort through (in your case, you have four hexagrams and 3 moving lines!) - and adding in a 'nuclear option' will only confuse things. Or, if one of these castings 'speaks' to you, or seems more relevant or useful to the situation at hand, then maybe you could start by looking at that nuclear hexagram.

I hope that's of some use to you. D.

 

[Liselle]

(crossed posts with dfreed)
-----

Sounds like you already know how to find the nuclear, is that right?

I think it's perfectly valid to take the nuclears of both the primary and relating hexagrams, but you'll want to go slowly to avoid being confused by too much to look at.

If I were you I think I'd start with the nuclear of the primary hexagram of the first reading you cast. Take time to think about that, until you feel you have a good idea what it's adding to the reading.

"The core" is a good description, I think. The core, the seed inside, the potential...

It's best to read what Hilary's written about them. Here's a good blog article to start with (I like the title ): https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2006/10/05/nuclear-hexagrams-why-bother/

Also, here are the results of searching the site for "nuclear":
https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/?s=nuclear

That's from this search box, in the banner:

(hover over the magnifying glass)

 

[Dianadm]

Thank you both! Yes, I know how to find them, and I have read the first article you posted (but there are many mire that look interesting). I am working on all the possible variables as a plus. Mostly to understand where to go to find more in depth info after the reading is done. I am a little bit confused with timeframe management in the readings... I saw the "seasonal", but I am not sure it is referring to the timeframe. But this is another topic..

Thanks!

 

[dfreed]

I am a little bit confused with timeframe management in the readings.

What do you mean by this? And what 'seasonal' did you see, and where?

(And just an FYI: you probably know this, but a good place to discuss individual readings is in the Shared Readings forum. It's not to say they can't be talked about here, but it's usually in relation to 'exploring divination' in some way: e.g. for example, as you've done here where you're asking about the nuclear hexagrams, but in a way that can be applied to more than just one specific reading. )

Best, D

 

[Liselle]

You might find WikiWing helpful. Hilary has included brief commentaries of her own in it about each hexagram's nuclear, which are good starting points / food for thought.

Here's more information:

WikiWing

You know how, when you’re finding it hard to connect with a reading, it often helps tremendously to think back to previous occasions when you’ve received this hexagram or line? Not just for ‘what happened’, but because you have a sense of how it feels from the inside?The I Ching Community has al

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

 

[surnevs]

Hi Dianadm,

Watch this video (Thou it's around an hour it's worth it)

​

 

[Liselle]

Here's yet another list of search results, this one from using Google site search.

site:www.onlineclarity.co.uk "nuclear" - Google Search

For instance, there's this thread:

Counter indication vs. Hidden Possibility

Hi Everyone, I'm not sure if this has been covered. I did a search and couldn't find anything so I'll ask. In the older version I Ching by Ritsema and Karchar, the nuclear hexagram is referred to as the Counter Indication (I think as I don't have the book in front of me and I always...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

Bradford Hatcher posted a couple of book recommendations. Hilary posted herself, and also posted a message from Stephen Karcher.

Have you found Stephen Karcher's own site? There's a pdf called "What is a hexagram?" where he discusses the nuclear a little bit. (Click "Resource Library" in the menu at the top, then click the link labelled ROOM || Nuts & Bolts.)

 

[dfreed]

Hi Dianadm, Watch this video

Surnevs, here's my quick summary - let me know if I missed anything:

Early on in the video Harmen quotes from someone who says there is no consensus on the interpretation of nuclear hexagrams.

I believe that the rest of the video is Harmen looking for early use of the nuclear hexagrams, but he doesn't find this, whereas he finds that the Nuclear Trigrams were used very early on (perhaps as far back as the late-Zhou or early-Han dynasties?). I believe the video is more about the history of nuclear trigrams (and hexagrams), but doesn't talk about how to work with nuclear hexagrams or what they mean.

 

[surnevs]

Surnevs, here's my quick summary - let me know if I missed anything:

Early on in the video Harmen quotes from someone who says there is no consensus on the interpretation of nuclear hexagrams.

I believe that the rest of the video is Harmen looking for early use of the nuclear hexagrams, but he doesn't find this, whereas he finds that the Nuclear Trigrams were used very early on (perhaps as far back as the late-Zhou or early-Han dynasties?). I believe the video is more about the history of nuclear trigrams (and hexagrams), but doesn't talk about how to work with nuclear hexagrams or what they mean.

Hi dfread, Yes, You got a point there. My intention was though that in case Dianadm hasn't watched it before it's a superb supplement toward an understanding of the subject in matter. But yes: it isn't directly what Dianadm are asking for.
He/she will find it useful in case not.

 

[Plutonian]

While nuclear trigrams are of help in understanding the general dynamic of the sign, authors like Andrée consider that it would be an error to try and build hexagrams out of them since we would get only 16 possible results. Yet, if it helps in ones method, it's not up to me to judge it.
I generally try to look at nuclear trigrams as the result of the combination between two specific trigrams in two specific positions. Also, they can work as reflections. For example, you mention hexagram 48, Kan on top, Xun on the bottom. In this case, the reflection of Kan, in Xun, would be Dui; the reflection of Xun on Kan would be Gen. Just a thought.
On the other hand, if you want to extract the nuclear hexagrams, you might want to see the "generation" theory, in which hexagrams group themselves under the wing of certain nuclear hexagrams, which again, group themselves under the wing of the 4 basic hexagrams: 1, 2, 63 and 64.

 

[dfreed]

in case Dianadm hasn't watched it before it's a superb supplement toward an understanding of the subject in matter.

Yes, I just didn't want anyone to think the video was giving them an answer to how nuclear hexagrams work, or what they mean. More broadly, I think quite a few of Harmen's videos are superb - though as many of us know, much of his focus is on the trigrams - and videos 1-5 (toward the bottom) are a good place to start to get a sense of his approach to the Yi:

https://www.youtube.com/c/YiTubeChannel/videos

 

[IrfanK]

While nuclear trigrams are of help in understanding the general dynamic of the sign, authors like Andrée consider that it would be an error to try and build hexagrams out of them since we would get only 16 possible results.

Well, I think that's a feature, not a bug. It's a way of categorizing the 64 hexagrams into 16 groups, with four hexagrams all sharing the same nuclear. I don't usually look at the nuclear hexagram as part of the answer to my inquiry -- it's more that it tells you something about the hexagram that you received as the answer, an underlying theme.

 

[surnevs]

For my part, when dianadm asked:
(#1) ".............And what they [The nuclear hexagrams] exactly represent? The core of the problem?"
- I've had readings concerning my home and circumstances around that, where more than one time the nuclear hexagram was hex. 37 (Wilhems tag: The Family) and - not the first times - but much later I wondered: could the nuclear hexagram represent what the I Ching reflects on ? But on second thought the I Ching should come up with either hexagram 6, 10, 47 or 58 (all of those and no other hexagrams having hex. 37 as the nuclear hexagram) each and every time I asked it about things concerning my home, then. And that seems a bit out of logic.
According to Richard Rutt the use of nuclear hexagram came late in the history of the I Ching:
: "The discovery and use of nuclear trigrams are variously attributed to Fei Zhi (50 BC - AD 10) and Jing Fang (77 - 37 BC). There is no suggestion that they were recognized earlier. " *
They probably didn't were part of the divination used originally.
From the 5'th Wing, The great Treatise there is maybe a hint to the nuclear hexagram:
"The beginning line is difficult to understand. The top line is easy to understand. For they stand in the relationship of cause and effect. The Judgement on the first line is tentative, but at the last line everything has attained completion." and following [§ 3]: "But if one wishes to explore things in their manifold gradation, and their qualities as well, and to discriminate between right and wrong, it cannot be done completely without the middle lines." **

If they represent the Core of the problem I can not judge, but I know that an authority within the I Ching, Stephen Karcher, has proposed them to represent the hidden possibility ***



__________________

*) Zhouyi, the book of changes, a new translation with commentary by Richard Rutt; Part I, The contents of Zhouyi, 'constituent trigrams' p. 97; the 2007 Ed.

**) Wilhelm/Baynes ed. Book 2, Ta Chuan, Part II, ch. 9 § 2 & 3

***) The I Ching - Plain and simple, Element Books Limited, G.B. 1997

 

[Plutonian]

Well, I think that's a feature, not a bug. It's a way of categorizing the 64 hexagrams into 16 groups, with four hexagrams all sharing the same nuclear. I don't usually look at the nuclear hexagram as part of the answer to my inquiry -- it's more that it tells you something about the hexagram that you received as the answer, an underlying theme.

Oh, yes indeed, i don't fully agree with Andrée, I was only citing a divergent opinion. keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. (andrée is not an enemy though )
On the other hand, I did give this way of categorizing the hexagrams a good amount of thought, and it does work to me. Yet, I feel tempted to use the occidental geomantic figures to find the "nuclear hexagrams" meaning, more than building a new hexagram out of it. That is why I shared some various sources on tetragrams, because they might help understand the core-archetype of the hexagram.

For example:
, , and would share the same core archetype: VIA

Via, at the same time, can be reduced to a BIGRAM, which would be:
And, of course, this bigram could be condensed to a yang line.
At first, this might seem unclear or useless, but if you give it some thought, you will find it is not useless at all. This is only one way of reducing the trigrams, based on the nuclear theory. there are other ways as well. But i find this one to be very interesting indeed.

edit: i propose the use of geomantic figures instead of tetragrams, because there is more information available (as far as i know) on these than on tetragrams. Its all about learning the archetypes. On this matter i STRONGLY suggest you read "Psychological Types" of Jung.

Here are some interesting sources to further explore these possibilities:
Bigrams
Jungian Archetypes (some guy)
A book the "four psychical archetypes"
And i found this old post on the subject here in clarity