The Dreaded 29.6 and it's antidote

[drake]

I consulted the I Ching recently about a woman. I have a stock way of inquiring about thing. It is phrased "Please advise". Having received the most dreadful of all the 384 possibilities of hexagrams-line combinations, and asked why? Why this dreadful reading? 32 Oh - because of duration, or "long-lasting", this pit within a pit is projected. So, as I usually do when I receive a shitty reading, I asked for the antidote. My antidote to 29.6 in this case is 11. "Peacefully Advancing". How can I possibly reconcile these 3 readings? By peacefully advancing with this woman but avoiding duration? hmmmm

 

[angelatlantis14]

Hi Drake,

not sure why you see 29.6 --> 59 as the "most dreadful of all" readings for a question???
29 in itself is saying that you are in a dangerous and dark place, but if you keep your courage and hold on to what you believe, you will have success. Line 6 is indeed dark, saying that no progress can be made (a theme common to 29) AT THIS TIME. I don't think that 3 years is to be taken literally, just that it is a sizable time, unfortunatley. But the changing Hex 59 is telling you quite directly that the blockage and darkness of 29 will eventually dissolve and give way to a spring melting.
So all in all this is not a "s***** reading" but actually one that can give a lot of valuable insight, if you chose to listen.

Oh, and I do not see any need to ask for "antidotes" and not even quite sure what is meant by that?
The original reading is quite complete, imo....

best wishes

maui

 

[butterfly spider]

When I played a game as a child, there was always a spot on the board that I thought of as meaning certain loss. The place where I really didnt want to be. There was no reason why I had concocted this bizarre thought, but I still felt it. I played the game again recently ( Wildlife) and sure enough, this place reared its ugly head.....

Hex 29 is no more a bad hexagram than a place on a boardgame. I have had this casting when I have been in a state of mind that prevents me from moving forward. My situation is not bad, but my mindset is. It is often to do with fear of something that might happen - losing, or making a plonker of oneself.

Peaceful advancing - yes, just relax and let things develop. Winning something is not about creating a success, it is more to do with a state of mind - even lottery winners get depressed (or so I am told - I will let you know if I am lucky enough to be in this position).

Do not get bogged down with good or bad hexagram castings - they are all neutral, it is our own interpretations that lead to conclusions.

 

[Sayuki]

Good day, Drake.
Setting aside any possible dreadfulness, imo, these readings speak more about you than about the woman you are interested in. Hex 32 in combination with 29.6 can be indicative of a certain circumstance or mindset that has become habitual and 'imprisons' you in one way or another.
My own very last encounter with 29.6 concerned fraud. Looking back I can see there were plenty of signs practically yelling to me, but I steadfastly turned blind eye to them being in 'iwanthisthing' frame of mind. Perhaps, there is something in your situation that you failed/refused to notice by now? A pattern of behaviour, feelings.
Hex 11 can speak of harmonization of a kind once you'll find there the problem lies. It can also suggest letting things evolve at their own pace.

 

[maggie may]

Hi,

I think it is best to let go of pre-conceived notions about the meaning of hexagrams as much as possible. After all, each new question - answer combination is a completely new situation even if the question is similar to others. I like to go to the trigrams and their meaning and attributes when I feel bogged down with overwhelming text from hexagrams. The attributes of the trigram represent that element in balance, doing what it does naturally. There are no bad trigrams, though there may be some imbalance.

Running water is following its course and meeting every twist and turn and drop by flowing through. Depending on the environment, it may eddy and swirl, or increase in speed, or splash at the banks. Water flows downwards. Consideration of these kinds attributes and comparing them to my experience in nature tends to calm my nerves about the overall hexagram.

The idea of two running streams on top of one another is interesting to consider. What would that mean? To me it says there are two different flows, each reacting to the environment and each flowing downward. If I was to consider kayaking such a double stream, I would take great care indeed. It would feel unpredictable. The surface may look one way and the under currents quite another. Such a situation would be dangerous and even with fore thought, the unknown factors could take me under. It would take work and skill and hyper vigilance to make it through.

Water is also associated with emotions. This makes perfect sense to me. Emotions are ever flowing and changing and subject to be influenced by the environment. In considering relationships and communication with others, there is a great deal of emotional current. The trigram of water has a yang line in the middle, where emotions are more controlled, the flow is more steady. The outer lines are yin and more subject to the environment.

Line 6 in a very general way carries the meaning of being at the end of a situation. It is the place of looking back over what you have been through and also preparing for new beginnings. It can be the place of the sage or the outcast, one who is in it but not of it. I get the feeling from this line of one who is trying to stay out of the dangerous flow of the two rivers, and gets entangled on the banks of his own emotions.

Your question was general for advice and I do not know your personal history or your history with the other person. If I were to get this line in regards to advice about a relationship, I think I would see it as a warning that I was letting my own emotions be pulled by the emotions of another. I would look back over similar situations and relationships and consider them. I would consider the emotional qualities that helped or hindered and be on alert for them in dealing with the other person. I would recognize it as a challenging situation where it was important for me to stay true to myself and not get caught up in rushes of emotions. But neither can it be avoided. To do so would only put me in another kind of tangle.

Basically I am offering some images based on the trigrams and lines within the hexagram. Creatively imagining these attributes can remove the fear and help me to see it more objectively. Then I can apply the images that stand out or resonate within the personal situation. It might also help to look at the nuclear trigrams which can express what is enveloping or restraining the qualities of the trigrams received. Looking at these layers within the situation can help to remove it from dread and fear as well. You asked for advice and the Yi is speaking in images to give you helpful advice. It is not necessarily an image of how things will turn out.

All the best,
Maggie

 

[steve]

I like how you said " It is not necessarily an image of how things will turn out." I think the Yi does predict based on the path you are on however for me it works clearest when i ask about the now. I think Yi helps us to try and stay on the correct path individually of which we are constantly veering off. in relation to good and bad readings, even now I think sometimes oh man, look at this, but as 10.6 says look at your conduct as quite often its ourselves that have put us where we are ( not always) Personally its usually the case.

Steve

 

[maggie may]

Hi Drake,

These are just some thoughts I had about H29 with arousal at line 6.

I was re-reading your question

I consulted the I Ching recently about a woman

and I was reminded of a story my late husband told. He was a guitar player and singer and song writer (among many other talents). He told that when he was playing frequently to audiences, he said before every song: "This is a song about a woman." It was a line we used over and over.

In this forum, I would venture to say that a high percentage of questions are about how to get along with, or figure out, the other person. I once heard a story about a ship of refugees who had been through very difficult struggles. The experiences they had were traumatic and unimaginable. A therapist volunteered to meet with each individually. They did not want to talk about the struggles through life and death and dignity. They wanted to talk about the interpersonal relationships aboard the ship. They wanted to ask about a woman (or a man). It is human. It is our shared experience.

I bring these examples up in part to say you are not alone in wanting to understand. Also, it is quite possible that, in 2500 years, the question you asked has been answered with every single possible answer. You are likely not the only person to receive 29.6 in response to that question either.

Your dialogue with the Yi is internal. It is your understanding of the images provided. That is why some dude 2500 years ago asking the same question, about a woman, and got the same answer, could also relate to it.

How can two rivers be good? I thought of a double river waterfall with two rivers at different heights meeting the same cliff. I am standing on a bridge over looking them. It’s an objective view. However, if I were in the waterfalls it would be different. If I were at the top of the upper waterfall I might be hanging on for dear life to the ropes or vines. But I am not. I am considering it. A hexagram is not bad if it gives a good idea about how to make a decision or act or approach something. It can’t be bad if it gives good advice.

How is a relationship, a woman, like standing at the top of a double waterfall? Hey, that would be a good song: This is a song about a woman. Relationships are the hardest thing. There is nothing more challenging. Water takes the plunge. It encounters risk without reserve. Are you entangled in the past of other relationships and caught in the future of what this one could be? Are you the sage, the outcast, the person at the top of the waterfall? Only you can say.

I mentioned before my husband. He reminds me of H29. It was the most difficult and challenging relationship of my life. He transitioned two plus years ago after a long bout with cancer. The difficulties and challenges of that experience changed me. I do not regret one single moment.

I am the last person who should give advice on relationships. I do know that the most difficult and challenging ones, in my experience, are also the most rewarding. On the other hand, a relationship is its own path. When you commit to caring about another, your life will change. It is not wrong or right. It is only different.

Best wishes,
Maggie May

 

[Trojina]

I consulted the I Ching recently about a woman. I have a stock way of inquiring about thing. It is phrased "Please advise". Having received the most dreadful of all the 384 possibilities of hexagrams-line combinations, and asked why? Why this dreadful reading? 32 Oh - because of duration, or "long-lasting", this pit within a pit is projected. So, as I usually do when I receive a shitty reading, I asked for the antidote. My antidote to 29.6 in this case is 11. "Peacefully Advancing". How can I possibly reconcile these 3 readings? By peacefully advancing with this woman but avoiding duration? hmmmm

Let me take Hilary's translation of the line from WikiWing...29.6

Bound with strong rope and cords,
Shut away in a thorn thicket.
For three years, gains nothing.
Pitfall.'

It's not a line to be airbrushed out so easily is it, it looks pretty stark and that's because this line generally saying that what you get into or have gotten into is a kind of 'sentence' as in a fixed time of seeming penalty during which there is not much to be done other than suffer the consequences of whatever the situation or your actions within it bought you. There are certainly many times like that and as others have said that's not always so terrible it's just how it is. For example I recall someone getting this line in regard to recovery from an accident. There it seemed to be saying there was nothing he could do to escape or hasten the passing of the misfortune and that is true in many such situations. If you break your leg you are stuck with a broken leg until the time it mends. You are bound there, it could be seen to be a kind of prison sentence. So in every day life we might experience such things on a minor scale..think of all the times there was no way out of suffering the consequences of things...that's part of life. In 29 we are counselled to keep on flowing through all the uncertainties and I think 29 is so often the emotional depths and uncertainties. By line 6 rather than flow on through it looks like you got snagged up and you may be snagged up for a while. But we all get snagged up for a while in daily life....one that comes to mind is when I sail past the correct exit on the motorway....there's nothing I can do about that except drive on and suffer the delay and inconvenience...What I'm trying to say is 29.6 isn't so scary if you keep the scale of the question in mind. Now here you are asking of an emotional matter I presume and Yi seems to be saying you are caught up in a hard place at the moment and what is more there is little you can but wait for it to pass of it's own accord. How do we let things pass of their own accord ? We just carry on don't we ? Once I'm on the wrong stretch of motorway I am sentenced to stay on that motorway until a suitable exit comes up. There is no point in me swearing or cursing or trying to rectify things since I cannot turn the car around.....I must just simply suffer the consequence of my mistake.

So in your case it looks like you are caught up in a difficult emotional position from which you cannot extricate yourself from.

You then asked 'why the dreadful reading' and Yi gave you 32uc...which is pretty much like saying to you 'just keep on keeping on' just like the car on the wrong bit of motorway. Now you are in this position just carry on without trying to extricate yourself....it may feel very hard but that's okay, you can get through it. I don't think Yi was saying why the 29.6 occurred but more telling you how to best cope with where you find yourself. For an antidote you had 11uc and this hexagram is badly named as 'Peace' since it really is very often anything but peaceful, it is flow, pace, change. So your antidote, such as it is, is allowing the flow to bring change change as it surely will in the course of time. Both the 32 and the 11 were unchanging so I think this reflects the inexorability of the 29.6. The position you find yourself in now with this woman isn't something you can really do much about and this may be painful but it will pass.

 

[butterfly spider]

I think the image of the motorway - and being doomed to remain on that stretch until the next exit - is worth remembering for 29.6. Like sitting on the Island with the skull in Wildlife - the dice will be thrown and you will move on - after missing 2 throws. It is what you feel in this space, this vacuum, that is important - get impatient and hit the wheel, count the minutes, or put on some good music or go and make a cup of tea...

Thank you Trojina -

 

[Trojina]

Thank you...but also this line could be taken as a pretty sharp warning not to get tangled up in the first place, that is if you were asking 'what if I do this ?' I'd take it as 'don't go there if you want to avoid the thorn thicket'. But as there was virtually no information about the situation, Drake just said 'about a woman', by his tone I guessed he meant he's already suffering, already in the thorn thicket, and the following answers could be seen to confirm that. But it might have been a warning not to get involved with the woman, or at least to look before he leaps, or maybe simply a warning about his own emotional depths and where they can take him. I don't know but I don't think this aspect of warning can be overlooked here, it's a possibility so it's up to Drake to figure if it's a warning or if it simply describes where he currently finds himself in his relationship with her.

The way to figure that out is for Drake to figure where he feels trapped or where he sees potential traps appearing I guess. We aren't often literally in a thicket of thorns but emotionally tight spaces can feel that way and it's not always easy to get out is what this line shows.

 

[steve]

Yes the motorway is a great metaphor, I have read or heard that prisoners doing long sentences sometimes get through easier once they accept their fate and forget about the outside world. Start realising this is their new home so get used to it, I suppose if you can get there then I guess your time would be easier.

Great thread for this line, very useful

Steve

 

[butterfly spider]

It is also interesting that if you are caught in quicksand and are being sucked under - the most successful outcome is to relax, bide your time and just wait until rescue comes. Flaying about, kicking legs, actually makes you sink further. You can (I have heard) wait for upto 6 hours as long as you relax, and try and lay back. I dont know why I suddenly thought of this. I was caught in some bog quicksand with my dog and there is a tendency to panic - but I did manage to get out, by lying back getting my legs and feet out of the bog and grabbing the dog's tail. She barked and managed to get me out - but if I had struggled, or felt fear then things could have been different. This was in a marsh in Wales, off the beaten track and Trojina was right in that perhaps 29.6 is saying that I shouldnt have been there in the first place....