The women according to the I Ching

[cal val]

Men...

This is a soapbox I've stepped down from in the South. There's no use trying to re-educate the men here...*grin* I've noticed, however, that on the college level they are trying, so I'll just be patient. It's a soapbox I rarely had to climb in the West..or in metropolitan/cosmopolitan cities.

FYI, if you really want to "score" with women, start with how you refer to them.

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

Middle English, mistress of a household, from Old English hlfdige. See dheigh- in Indo-European Roots.]
Usage Note: Lady is normally used as a parallel to gentleman to emphasize norms expected in polite society or in situations requiring courtesies: Ladies and gentlemen, your attention please. I believe the lady in front of the counter was here before me. The attributive use of lady, as in lady doctor, is widely regarded as condescending and inappropriate. When the sex of the person is relevant, the preferred term for this usage is woman. The adjectival form female is also acceptable; in fact, twice as many members of the Usage Panel prefer female and male to woman and man as modifiers in the sentence President Clinton interviewed both ___ and ___ candidates for the position of Attorney General.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm one of those women who cringes everytime someone calls me "lady"...whether they're male or female. For the record...I ain't no lady. I'm a woman...*bursts in song*..."Cuz I'm a WOOOOOOMAN..."

Of course, if you're one of the passive/aggressive types on this forum and begin to exaggerate the use of lady in an attempt to irritate...then I won't cringe...I'll just smile...your need is all about you...not me...*grin*

Cheers,

Val

 

[heylise]

I think the pair 43-44 is (maybe among a lot of other things) an expression of male and female power.
The Yi has been written by men, so the female power looks like their own anima, and it seems she has a preoccupation with sex. When one hears the average talk among men on a work-floor, it is obviously her principal concern.
In all ages the power to create a new human being has been a miracle to men, something to revere, or to fear.

Hex. 43 is 'holding up one's seal of authority', or of being trusted or favored by the emperor. It is the visible side of men. And the only other topic of conversation on that work-floor: which team won the latest match and with how many points.
For women one would have to change the text into female concepts. To look at 44 as the visible part of a woman, instead of an invisible anima. And at 43 as an invisible animus, loaded with numinous images about 'how men are'. If the Yi had been written by women, there would probably be a warning in 43 too, like 'do not grasp this man'. Or maybe 'do not trust a (any) man?'
There is a warning in 43 - against war! The danger of male power.

Maybe the questions put to the Yi are revealing: how can I get her? How can I make him love me? Get her, but not by grasping her. Make him love, but not by intoxicating him. In former times women got imprisoned or tortured for bewitching men, without anybody realizing that most of the time the men's own hormones did the trick. Charm means literally to bewitch.

Personally I often think "Men ..!!!" but I will have to figure out what exactly is this vague 'men'. Often it is about their jumping up when they feel challenged, and by doing so missing a great opportunity to expand their (and my) knowledge or contact or so. I am not very much bothered by their 'always suppressing us poor women', because I think the only solution is that women become stronger, with more self-reliance. Rape is different, for that maybe society as a whole will have to become more balanced male-female, or maybe find back a male-female culture, which gives guidelines, including again the miracle and the reverence. In both directions of course.
What I see very often in very normal everyday life, is that women belittle men and take away their honor. Making them part of pots, pans, children and pets. And there are men who defend themselves against this form of power by 'grasping' the woman. No solution of course.

I often wondered how hexagrams would have been if they had been described by women. Another Yijing, a female one, everything in it the same, and yet very different. I sure would like to make that one.

LiSe

 

[chrislofting]

Hi LiSe,

you wrote:
> I think the pair 43-44 is (maybe among a lot of other
> things) an expression of male and female power.

"In the traditional sequence hexagram 44 pairs with hexagram 43.
The overall focus in this pairing is on being 'persuasive', be it through the 'spreading of the word' of 43 or the more seductive methods of 44."

and

"The generic properties of hexagram 44 reflect the mixing of the generic properties of hexagram 28 with the generic properties of hexagram 43.
A combination of excess, of going beyond what is required, (28), with a focus on 'seeding', on 'spreading the word' (43) is reflected in the focus on persuation/seduction in hexagram 44."

whereas:

"The generic properties of hexagram 43 reflect the mixing of the generic properties of hexagram 01 with the generic properties of hexagram 44.
A combination of singlemindedness (01) and being persuasive/seductive (44) is expressed in the need to 'spread the word' reflected by hexagram 43."

(these all form into a quartet of hexagrams of 01, 43, 44, and 28 - see variations on a theme sequence in http://pages.prodigy.net/lofting/icpoints.html - a file now reduced to a header/intro page and a table of links to the 64 hexagram etc)

In my post in reply to Val who asked:

> I'd be curious to know what your take is on what the Yi is
> saying about woman's position in the world today with 44.5
> to 50.

I wrote in part:

----------
"The generic properties of hexagram 44 reflect the mixing of the generic properties of hexagram 28 with the generic properties of hexagram 43.
A combination of excess, of going beyond what is required, (28), with a focus on 'seeding', on 'spreading the word' (43) is reflected in the focus on persuation/seduction in hexagram 44. "

Thus 44.5 would reflect the expression of 44, persuading/seducing with a warning about exaggeration reflected through 50, as in too much 'cooking' of the persuasion, too heated, too overdone, can lead you away from the intent of 44.

If we apply this generic data to a particular context, as in the role of women in the world today, the focus on being persuasive/seductive of 44 is distorted by the context being overdone.

44 pairs with 28 and as such "This pairing reflects 'going beyond' the norm, be it in aiding someone/something (the excess of 28, to go the extra distance) or in the act of persuation/seduction of another (44)."

The development of consciousness allows for the 'mixing' of 'traditional' male and female mental states and that can be interpreted as going 'beyond' the traditional. In the binary sequence, hexagram 44 is the last hexagram of the yin-based hexagrams and as such is the most yang of yin and as such an expression of 'excess' when compared to 'pure' yin that is more balancing, more integrating than differentiating.

The binary sequence of the I Ching reflects the patterns of 'raw' differentiate/integrate and as such a template, a mould, on to which we pour our 'basic' dichotomy to give us details.

Thus the dichotomy 'male/female' converts to the parts-list of 64 hexagrams describing a scale of values, listing the harmonics of the whole that is 'male/female'. This can give you not only a map of 'male VS female' - the differences in gender, but also 'male & female' as in the range of mental states in any individual regardless of gender.
---------

Note that the overall perspective here is on 'excess' and that is reflected in the judgement text re:

(Wilhelm): ".. the maiden is powerful. One should not marry such a woman"

or

(fu huisheng) "the yielding meets with the firm...she cannot be taken as a wife, for a man can not live long with her"

or the more literal chinese-into-english (eranos text)

"Coupling, womanhood invigorating. No availing-of grasping womanhood"

IOW from a TRADITIONAL, species-nature perspective, more focused on what is between our legs, so 44 reflects one of 64 possible perspectives and its particular perspective is on an exaggeration of 'womanhood', a female with 'balls'. For our consciousness-nature this is not applicable as our focus is more on what is inbetween our ears in that our consciousness allows us to cover the full range of thought patterns regardless of sex in that the 'female' can learn to be more 'male' as the 'male' can learn to be more 'female', and so our consciousness reflects the ultimate in context-sensitivity adaptations ;-) Thus 44 reflects excessive yangness in a yin context.

As for anima/animus, the anima is in the male, the animus in the female. Both complement the persona of the individual.

"The persona, the ideal picture of a man as he should be, is inwardly compensated by feminine weakness, and as the individual outwardly plays the strong man so he becomes inwardly a woman, i.e. the anima, for it is the anima that reacts to the persona" Jung - "Anima and Animus" IN "The Relation Between the Ego and the Unconscious".

The persona that 'fits' hex 44 (or more so all of the Wind based trigrams) is that of the monitor, auditors, CEOs, adminstrators, supervisors, all based on a LACK of trust in others and so a need to monitor, to keep people on the path and so to lead from behind, be critical, push rather than pull etc etc. (this also includes the 'behind every successful man .....')

'traditionally', the stereotype male in most cases, the male wants to sit around etc whereas the female wants to cultivate etc - reflects exaggerated 'nesting' - in the yin based hexagrams the ordering is such that the general 'opposite' pairs here are 02,23 to 28,44 where 23 reflected the sense of 'housekeeping' by cutting back, whereas in an exaggerated form, but still within the context of a yin-based hexagram, this is extended outwards, to become cultivated and so influencial. (males too 'dress up' but their dress sense is often like that of a child, they can lack the sense of pattern, of coordination, etc required in expressing 'quality')

In 44, the bottom trigram is lake and reflects a focus on cultivating things to become influencial.
The top trigram is heaven and reflects the singlemindedness of the cultivating.

Therefore the generic pre-sex quality is of a context of dynamic relationship (sharing time with another/others) and the text of seeking wholeness (to become 'one' by expanding, take over the context). (in 23 the focus is on static relationship, sharing SPACE with another/others - there is a better sense of quality in 23, here in 28,44 it is all exaggerated).

A 'male' interpretation touches on being seductive/persuasive, the gift of the gab etc (and so interpretable as 'corrupting', bring to the 'dark side' etc etc - note the pair of 44,28 are opposites to the *local* pair of 46,18) but a 'female' interpretation touches on being too 'male' and the consequences of.

The name of 44 covers: "KOU : intense, driven encounter, at once transitory and enduring, that is the reflection of primal yin and yang; meet, encounter, copulate; mating animals; magnatism, gravity; to be gripped by impersonal forces."

This is very intense 'pushing buttons' oriented, be it cooperative (sexual) or competitive (instincts reactions). This is also an exaggeration when compared to the local, more 'balanced', perspective that is reflected in hexagram 46:

"SHENG : go up; climb step by step; rise in office; advance through effort; accumulate; bring out and fulfill; lit: a measure of fermented liquor, ascension as distillation."

There are sharp differences between species-nature and consciousness-nature in that the former is strongly into differences of sex/gender whereas the latter, the later development, is an 'improvement' from an evolution context in that it allows for high details on parts analysis and so increased context-sensitivity.

As such our species-nature works off instincts and so WHOLES and so MALE OR FEMALE, no subtlties. Our consciousness-nature is more PARTS oriented and so allows for mental states across the full range of possibilities within any individual.

Being not aware of these differences can cause 'issues' to emerge in relationships where we can confuse the different perspectives (and so come up with paradox etc)


>
> I often wondered how hexagrams would have been if they had
> been described by women. Another Yijing, a female one,
> everything in it the same, and yet very different. I sure
> would like to make that one.
>

there are a couple of 'female I Ching' texts around (e.g. Walker,B,G., (1986)"I Ching of the Goddess")


Chris.

 

[cal val]

Hi everyone...

I have what I think is a very interesting and possibly educational story to add to this thread about an experience I just had with a male and hexagram 44.

Thursday morning I woke to find my aging cat, Rocky, in distress again. I acted fast, going through the same steps the Yi had instructed when we went through this before and then went off to work and waited for time to work its magic. I came home to find the cat out of distress but so weakened by the experience he was too weak to eat. I put the bowl in front of him, I put his face in it, I cooed, I petted...but he would just lay his head down on the side of the bowl. Now this is a cat who loves to eat so much, I call him "a furry pig" or "stomach with fur on it." So if he doesn't even try to eat, I know what it means.

I decided it was time to do the dread deed and began to grieve. I told the Yi what I was planning, and they answered that the time for action has not come. Huh??? I consulted again and the line was something to the effect I should not play God, and I argued that I wasn't going to let him suffer. They told me I could help him and I'd better act fast because I was treading on the tail of the tiger in terms of time. I cried and asked how I could possibly help him when he's stopped eating...lost his appetite...and they told me hex 27 to 44. Without even looking at the lines, I knew what they were saying...FORCE FEED him. So I went right to work on it. I spent the entire evening forcing small amounts of pureed food into his mouth every 15 minutes or so with a modified syringe until the Yi said enough...go rest now. I woke the next morning to find a cat considerably stronger, but still too weak to eat much...so I augmented the little he managed to take from his dish with food from the syringe. At some point the Yi had told me I could arrest the decay with gentle penetration, so I decided I was going to augment whatever he took from his dish with food from the syringe until he got good and strong again. That night when I got home from work, I gave him more from the syringe before I went to bed.

Well...yesterday was Saturday, and I discovered a very interesting change in our feeding ritual. This is where I have given some serious consideration to the implications of hexagram 44 and gained some insight. When I went to feed him in the morning, I stood there beside him and watched him eat for a minute or two. When I was satisfied he was going to eat okay, I walked out of the kitchen...he stopped eating and followed me...but he was still hungry. So I walked back into the kitchen, guided him to his bowl, he ate a bite or two and then stood in front of me crying. I played our usual little game of making a little mountain of the food left in his bowl...he ate a little more...and then stood in front of me crying again. This went on all day long...he ate a little and then came to me crying. Last night I wasn't satisfied with the amount he'd eaten all day, so I started the syringe feeding. I held him and forced a little into his mouth, he chewed and swallowed it. I was waiting for it to go down a bit and holding the syring when he started rubbing it with his teeth, then biting at it! I held it up so that he could pull it into his mouth if he wanted...and he did! I squeezed. He chewed and swallowed that and then came for the syringe again. We continued to do this through two full syringes. That's a lot of food compared to what he's been eating in the last year or so.

Bottom line...I rather powerfully seduced him into eating. He's now dependent on me for nourishment. AH HA! Is that what you mean are afraid of??? Well, if so, I've got news for you! It works both ways.

When I first went into therapy a gazillion years ago, I jabbered happily to my therapist for a bit until...she asked me very gently and compassionately, "What are you afraid of?" I spontaneously burst into tears and wailed "Marriage!" She very gently and compassionately asked me, "Why?" I blubbered, "Financial dependence." I shocked myself with those two declarations. I thought, "Did I say that???" That was the first I'd heard about it! What an abrupt awakening that was. And then the healing began.

As I got older (and wiser), I began to understand that men and women are not really independent, but they are not so dependent on each other either as they are interdependent...there's a subtle difference...and that's a good thing! That's the way nature, God, whatever...meant it to be. We're a social species...and our interdependence on each other is what keeps the species going. We'd be extinct by now or, at the very least, endangered if we each went it alone.

It's Sunday morning...everyone on the street is going to church soon, and I was just sitting on the porch smoking my cig and drinking my coffee when my neighbor came over carrying a suit, shirt and tie. He asked me if I thought they would all work together. They were great together, and I told him so and why. I was so happy to help him. When he left with a satisfied smile, I thought about how much I miss having my own man to ask me for help that way...*sigh*

Men...yes...you need us...and we need you. And there's nothing to be afraid of in that arrangement. It's all really comfortable and safe actually. Look at Rocky. He's eating better than ever now that he depends on me for nourishment. He's now 22 years, 3 months, 2 weeks and 1 day old...but who's counting?...so life with me...us...can't be all that bad.

Peace, love and understanding,

Val

 

[dharma]

Val,
thank you for sharing your cat-warming / yi-teaching story. it was truly heart-warming to hear. in memory of my own best cat-friend who passed away many winters ago, and who I still miss after all this time...

with love, a special

!

<CENTER>In Lak'ech
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Mayan code of honor)
"I am Another Yourself"</FONT></CENTER>

 

[cal val]

'; <----my other cat, Azzie, just typed that while staring at your picture, Dharma.

It was so comical to watch her. She stared big-eyed...then walked up to the monitor very steathily...looked under it...then around to the side of it. Once she was satisfied the kitty wasn't leaving the confines of the monitor, she hopped down.

Thank you so much for the kitty grin and (the rather sustained) moment of mirth.

Btw, Rocky ate like the pig that he is tonight. I was amazed. I'm still going to give him a little from the syringe before bed...for good measure...*grin*

Peace, love and understanding,

Val