Time out!

[bruce]

And I am taking a lil break from this excercise. Not sure we're up to the task, emotionally. Someone, anyone, feel free to take my place as the fool, or hero, depending how you look at it. Like the Guru said, time to tend my own garden.

 

[void]

Heh heh that statement kind of fits 7.1 even though not intended.

 

[martin]

Yeah, thought so!
You are in Bruce, not out!

 

[rosada]

Geez, step away from the computer for an hour and look what happens. Well, i really didn't want to be a part of 6. Conflict so I guess THAT wish got granted.

Soshin! Beautiful toss getting the I Ching's comment on our project. Actually, great minds think alike. When Void asked who Ramana was I consulted the i Ching and got 35, which I used to give my answer to that question a few posts back.Interesting is it not that Martin introduced him on 3.5 and when I asked "Who is Martin?" I got 35?

Bruce what's going on? Talk to us! You've picked up this live wire, 1,0000 volts of energy per second. You'll be channeling angels or worse if you don't checa in with us.

7, The Chariot/Car/Body?Character/Ego/Role is all about being a soul having a human experience. Identify to much with your experience and you'll drive it over the cliff.

If you gotta get out of the car, man, just do it gracefully. Pass the torch, don't put it out.

 

[rosada]

Bruce

Do I owe you an apology?
Does anybody?
Please let us know. I feel like we're in some sort of group trek and the teams that stay together, have participants still checking in at Hexagram 64, get to ronde vue in Heaven or Dream Land or maybe a special Clarity Boat Trip. Anyway, it's important to all of us that we not lose you.

Rosada

 

[bruce]

Rosada, Nooo. I just need a break from it. I invest a lot of myself, too much probably. Please do carry on; I'm still interested in following it.

 

[rosada]

Okay, Campers, Listen up!
Our Buddy Bruce who has so personified the part of Dragon since 1.1 has expressed an intention to step out of the arena. We are now at 7.2 and this hexagram particularly speaks of a leader being with the troups. Since Bruce has stepped down, who ever picks up the thread now will be seen as "The Dragon" until they figure a plausible way out of the story. Funny, years ago kids would have been clamoring to be this line, but I guess it's a sign we're older and wiser that no one here has grabbed this position.
I suggest Martin take over the spot. Especially since Ramana has been voted off the show (Really Void? Forever?).

But of course the slot is there for whoever feels to pick up the plot at this point.

Wilhelm says this about 7.2:

In the midst of the army
Good fortune. No blame.
The king bestows a triple decoration.

The leader should be in the midst of the army, in touch with it, sharing good and bad with the masses he leads. This alone makes him equal to the heavy demands made upon him. He needs also the recognition of the ruler. The decorations he receives are justified, because there is no quesstion of personal preferment here: the whole army, whose center he is, is honored in his person.

 

[yellowknife]

Rosada...that sort of sounds like you?

 

[bruce]

The new hero..

 

[bruce]

 

[jerryd]

Bruce, this young replacement is a marvel of your genious. I am ready to folow him(her) to where ever this brave soul will lead.

I will offer up arbitration and councel to this individual as 7.2 may suggest, these words flow from my awarness, Zen,Dow,Diety...Rag,Bag,Sold...Rich Bold,Old, with these 9 words I offer the Dragon an answer to all which will confront the master of 7.1

I single out specifically the strongest line in the Gua and call it Dragon, it is more in line with the king, but, nay, I an but an advisor to the King, so he lives on, ahead and Higher. As a change line I am related to Gua 1 but not the one, but may open favorable conversation to Yi.

 

[micheline]

I didnt even know bruce had that role? shows you how much I know.
Two reasons why i think the thread has fallen flat...hard to relate to a dragon... the protagonist had a male gender and thus it became a story about some OTHER character, not about everyman/woman..

maybe starting over with a more general voice (like the first time), ie "YOU wake up and ..." would make it easier for people to jump in and continue the thread, and be spontaneous.

(I kept seeing a cartoon image of a dragon..cute but not relevant to how I can undertsand the yi.) just a thought! love

 

[martin]

"who ever picks up the thread now will be seen as "The Dragon" until they figure a plausible way out of the story."

Hey! I come and go when I want, I'm a free dragon you know!

 

[martin]

Btw, I also didn't know about Bruce and the dragon. Perhaps it's best to have no such game rules?
After all, in this oracular world, whatever happens, whatever people contribute, it always fits somehow. Like a hexagram that we throw always fits. What doesn't fit simply cannot happen!

 

[void]

But hey look what does the young replacement above have on her head ? Take a look at 44,5 !!

I do believe its a melon and 44,5 in Wilhelm says

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

A melon covered with willow leaves
Hidden Lines
Then it drops down to one from heaven<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Clearly a great omen here for us, our young leader must have been under that tree when the melon fell. (Do melons grow on trees ?) Um Bruce and Heylise if you are doing a photo book for the Yi that cats gotta be 44,5 hasn't she ?

BTw I had no idea about Bruce being a dragon or a leader either.

 

[void]

And if there were birds in the field who better equipped to deal with them.

 

[rosada]

No rules of course. Anyone can channel Dragon. I was just noting that 7.2 was a particularly powerful line. I refuse to be held responcible for any postings with my name on them...

I have been refering to the lead character as Dragon as a name rather than meaning he actually is an animal, although his photo posted here suggests he is. Anyway, most likely he could morph into a different animal or a she or a he at will.

Using the pronooun "You" as Mitcheline suggests would probably get us on a stronger track .

Last night I dreamed of Calvin and Hobbs.

Here's Wilhelm on the next couple of lines..

7.3 Perchance the army carries corpses in the wagon.
Misfortune.

7.4 The army retreats. No blame.

7.5 There is game in the field
It furthers one to catch it.
Without blame.
Let the eldest lead the army.
The youngest transports corpses;
then perseverance brings misfortune.

7.6 The great prince issues commands,
Founds states, vests families with fiefs,
Inferior people should not be employed.

 

[rosada]

Another translaion:

7.3 If those who have not been chosen as leader interfere in matters, misfortune will follow. A leader must be strong and resolute.

7.4 If the opponent is too strong, the only course of action is to retreat and there is no dishonour in this.

7.5 If one is attacked, combat is justified but it must be an ordered retaliation. The army must not be allowed to degenerate into a 'free for all' as this will only lead to misfortune.

7.6 The war is over and victory won. Everyone who fought is rewarded according to their station but the chain of 'command'(e.g. the mind) must remain in power in place of so that 'inferior people' (e.g. negative emotions) do not gain places of power.

 

[rosada]

I posted something for 7.3 just to get the "You" perspective going, which I think was the key to the success of our first I Ching run. (But of course any one can change it back!)

Now I wonder if - with 7.4 saying there is no dishonour in retreat - we should start all over again with YOU as our personna. I feel I've gotten great value from meeting Ramana and Melon Cat and would not feel the trip was in vain if we decided to "retreat". Of course, if another person fills in 7.4 i will willingly soldier on. I'm just bringing the possibilities up for group discussion.

 

[jerryd]

Is it my nieve understanding of how the ego works or do I hear a tone of, gee since there is no real dragon left for "me" to play with I think the rules and direction needs to be changed? As far as who made who a leader or dragon, what does it matter? This has been really good fun to read. I hope personas and personalities do not create the great wall of experiences to crumble. Dragon or a Duck which is blind and has a psychic nature just make the best of a situation. To many cooks in the kitchen trying to construct a one dish meal will never work anyway, well...not without some basic agreed upon ground rules....!!! do you think? anyone.

 

[void]

I don't think anyone has been egotistical here, we were playing and experimenting and we got stuck thats all - and that was educational in itself. Being stuck can be very educational you know. You never played but just sat and watched and now you come to accuse someone of having an EGO - shock, horror, crime !!! Try playing a game with no egos...

character 1. We are all one

character 2. Yes we are all one

character 3. Yes its true we are all one

Indeed there is no division and we are all one
Well thats it then. The End.

 

[void]

If you want the thread to continue its up to you as much as anyone else ya know. You seem to have taken the role as audience and critic ?

 

[micheline]

yeah, jerry, your post was very 7.5ish and I think you should jump in with both army boots and take us over the hill

 

[micheline]

what I have come away with is the thought of how magical that first experience was..there were no rules and yet it worked synergistically..

but it's not so easy to reproduce!

I love the way the part 2 thread reflects the very struggle, though. It is kind of like the group therapy process...there is a period of "milling around" and discordant energy, and then ....something begins to take form

 

[rosada]

i don't think we have an ego problem here, Jerry, I think the problem is that we don't have as a group as strong a familiarity with the individual lines as we did with the core hexagrams. When we were doing the exercise with just the hexagrams we all sort of had a feeling for what the basic ideas were and so there was a lot of fun and humor as we shared our mutual understandings. But now with the individual lines we're not that individually fluent and so we're not getting such an effortless group flow. Like, everyone can immediately sympathize when you say, "I try asking different questions but I always get hexagram 4!", but few would get the point without resorting to a book if you were to say, "I'm stuck at 5.3" So there just isn't that effortless unspoken communication going on.

Also in the earlier story, using the pronoun YOU made for some good chuckles, again promoting the sence of mutual understanding. We discovered having a Dragon character required more effort just to keep track of what had already been said( The Dragon roars? The Dragon is young?). Using YOU means, well, what ever YOU want it to mean! So YOU is easier to identify with and also for creating continuity. Also it just was fun to see how it seemed the I Ching knew our inner secrets when it would say, "You..."

Anyway, if you have a feeling to pick up where we left off, or start a new thread I know I still feel this participation game is a good way to learn more about how the I Ching operates. Certainly it is interesting how the problems in how we are going about this have slowly come to the surface and now are out in the open while we are at hexagram 7, the hexagram "The I Ching Made Easy" says is about "seeing and correcting faults."

I think we've stopped at 7.4 which is a lovely end line as Void has interpreted it, or if there is someone (Jerry?) who would like to fill in 7.5 we'll keep the party going.

With Thanksgiving tomorrow we may find a lot of cooks are in the kichen - and not able to be on line...

 

[bruce]

I interpret Jerry?s comment as meaning too much conscious effort in order to make it some ?thing?. The first one just happened with spontaneity and enthusiasm.

It?s like comparing a night at the improv verses a screen play. Each one is produced with an entirely different format/protocol. A screen play needs spontaneity, but more than anything it needs a clear, hopefully multilayered plot. An improv with too much structure becomes like granite.

Agreeing with Rosada about the lines requiring a more in-depth understanding. And there?s lots of room for individual interpretation as well. Lots of room for confusion and discontent.

Then there?s the problem of being too convincing, hurting someone?s feelings in the process. I imagine that happens in theater groups too, but much easier with a group of well meaning folks with marginal writing and acting experience.

Curious which way this?ll go. Remaining open.

 

[bruce]

Ya know, there's another thing. It's impossible to approach the lines purely objectively. Without the injection of individual spirit, there could be no life in the line. It can't even be purely academic. It requires subjective involvement.

Don't know why exactly, but I'm intrigued by this whole thing. It's as though the Yi is playing along, in it's own mysterious and mischievous way.

 

[void]

Its like we are acting out the hexagrams and lines as we go through amongst each other. As soon as we hit 7 people started to talk about that thread as a 'task' something we were endeavouring to achieve. If it goes on hopefully 8 should be friendly.

For some reason this game reminds me of blind mans buff - a kids party game if you don't know, where you are blindfold and have to feel your way around, and of course you bash into things. I think we are crashing into one another with our line interpretations. If ever we get to 51 who knows !!!! Will we ever even crawl through 12 ?

 

[jesed]

Just in case the comment could be useful

The original effort arrive at some level; next level was open.

But, the way I see it (I hope I won't hurt anyone): despite going to the next level, the new effort came again to the later level, only in more detail. Is very much like 63.6 (after you had cross the great river, if you return to the river you'll get your head in the water. See Wilhelm's and Bradford's comments on this line)

I feel this way since I had read the 1.1 line; that's why I had no participate. But I had think: "is only my particular background what makes me think this way; let's not interfere".

Now that you are wondering about the differences between effort 1 and effort 2, I wonder if this point of view could help.

Best wishes

 

[rosada]

Kinda like a neat theatre game we've created here. Unique in that in this, the Time Out Zone, both the audience and the players can chat and discuss possible moves and then who knows who will next feel The Call of The Wild to just jump on stage and say the next line.

Jesed, welcome, we're at hexagram 8 now, when last I looked. Perhaps it's time for you and all those who have been watching from the sidelines to

8. Inquire of the oracle once again
Whether you possess sublimity, constancy, and perseverance;
{even if you don't, in this group}
There is no blame.

{The I Ching itself predicts}
Those who are uncertain gradually join.

Whoever comes too late (joins last)
Meets with misfortune
{Pays for the drinks?} .

Jerry, whether you meant to or not, as Mitchline suggested, I think you were guided
to contribute just the lines required. In Wilhelm on page 424 he talks about 7.5 being a time to "explain mistakes" - thanks for giving us our cue!
Very daring of you since 7.5 changes into 29!

Tomorrow is Thanksgiving in America. 8 is a lovely place to be!! Of course, we may be into hexagram 9 by then, but even helping wash dishes is fun when we're with this group!