Was he intentionally mocking me? 45.6

[giraffecloud]

Today at work, I was sat in an office and I could over hear a collague's converation in the air duct. It sounded like he was mocking me because I was upset at Christmas time. It feels like line 6 "no mistake" means he was intentionally mocking me. Unless there's more to line 6.

 

[dancingfox]

Hi Giraffecloud,

I feel like line 6 really is about you. The I Ching is usually much more effective if you inquire about yourself and what you need to know or understand about a situation then the person you are inquiring about...

45.6 to 12
line 6: 'There is nothing wrong with expressing your feelings.' (WikiWing)
Break through the blocks (12) to communication; make yourself heard (Hilary Barrett - I Ching)

More like a nudge from the Yi to not feel bad about expressing you feelings about Christmas.
Ofcourse breaking the blocks could refer to you catching your colleague's conversation in the air duct...
Or it could mean you could break the blocks to communication yourself and ask your colleague upfront if what you heard was correct and what he/she had meant by it.

Yes there is 'not a mistake' but about what? What do you think?

Anyway I feel you about being upset around Christmas time. Of course I don't know your circumstances but you are not alone with your feelings

 

[Liselle]

a nudge from the Yi to not feel bad about expressing you feelings

Am inclined to see it like that, too. If he wasn't mocking you, nothing to worry about, but if he was, Yi says don't worry about that, either.

Whether it means go confront him, I don't know. Would that help, or only create enmity at work? Another option could be to file your suspicion away in your mind as information.

 

[redoleander]

Maybe it means to ask him? I don’t think it’s in a confrontational way, more just that it’s ok to “complain” if you need to get your needs met.It would depend on the relationship. I think it’s either the need to express your hurt (but again, ask first, obviously it may not have been that) to him or to someone else too. Being upset and then feeling judged for it don’t feel great so maybe you need to talk it out with someone and just really be with the feelings. Either way, this is what you experienced and it impacted you. Maybe needing to process the feelings all around is the most important part.

 

[dancingfox]

Maybe it means to ask him? I don’t think it’s in a confrontational way, more just that it’s ok to “complain” if you need to get your needs met.

Whether it means go confront him, I don't know. Would that help, or only create enmity at work? Another option could be to file your suspicion away in your mind as information.

Asking the colleague might be taken as confrontational but I think it's important to give yourself the option. If circumstances don´t allow you to ask then maybe talk to someone else about it. Exploring your options, looking at the situation from different angles could help you gain some perspective.

 

[giraffecloud]

I spoke to my manager about it and she said he wouldn't do that because he could loose his job if he did that. I'm not sure whether or not to ask him about it. I think if it turned out he had, I wouldn't want to speak to him ever again. After reading the Richard Wilhelm translation, I see that "no mistake" means "no blame". This made me feel better because my manager did blame me. She accused me of being upset because I wasn't getting my own way but I suffer from bipolar and I was really struggling with my emotions that day.

 

[Liselle]

Giraffe, may I strongly suggest you don't pursue this any more at work? I don't see how it would do you any good.

If you could prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt it might be different, but you can't. It's probably a good idea to note to yourself that he's (probably) the kind of person who will make fun of co-workers behind their backs - that might be useful for you - but a vendetta over something you can't prove won't be.

It's hard to tell what question Yi answered. You didn't ask, "What's best for me to do about what I think I heard?," in which case 45.6 might have meant go and make your feelings known.

You also didn't ask, "Yi, what do you say about me getting upset at Christmas time?," but that's my guess about what 45.6 meant. In the circumstances, it seems to me Yi gave you a hug, and maybe a hug from Yi is what will do you the most good. Hold your head up high and ignore this nincompoop.

Obviously I don't know that for sure! If there are more developments that make the answer clearer, I hope you'll come back and let us know.

(Side note: as you can see, the answers to yes/no questions can be hard to understand. "Was he mocking me?" is a perfectly good, normal human question, but you're not talking to a human, you're talking to an oracle who does not have hexagrams labelled "yes" and "no." We have to accommodate Yi's vocabulary shortage by making our questions as easy as possible for it to answer. Something like, "How should I react to what I think I just heard?" or "What is best to do about this?" might have been easier to interpret.)

 

[Liselle]

By the way, when I say "vocabulary shortage," I don't mean that as a criticism. (Although it can feel frustrating: on the one hand, talking to Yi can be a lot like talking to a trusted friend; on the other hand, Yi doesn't speak in the kind of language we're used to.)

Simple yes-no oracles exist (I have no idea how well they work), but we go to Yi for more than that, right? Advice, guidance, insight.

Suppose you knew for sure he was mocking you. Wouldn't you still want to know more? What to do, how to react, what you could expect or what it would be like for you if you brought it to bosses' attention, how to work with him now - things like that.

Hilary always teaches in her classes to ask "So I can..." when coming up with a question, in order to come up with the best one.

In your case:

1st draft: "Was he intentionally mocking me?"

"I want to know that so I can __________________."

Fill in the blank with your reasons for asking. "So I can know how best to react, what to do, etc."

If need be, repeat until you feel like you've gotten to the heart of what you'd like Yi to show you, and then ask that question.

 

[Trojina]

Today at work, I was sat in an office and I could over hear a collague's converation in the air duct. It sounded like he was mocking me because I was upset at Christmas time. It feels like line 6 "no mistake" means he was intentionally mocking me. Unless there's more to line 6.

It's good to express feelings in 45.6 so why not ask him directly if he was mocking you? (I see you already suggested that) You then open up the possibility that he can reassure you, comfort you that he wasn't, if he wasn't. If he was talking about you then he needs to be aware he's affected you and he needs to be aware of being careful of what he says and where.

It does depend somewhat on your existing relationship with him. If it's already bad maybe you don't want to stir it up but if it's neutral you could. It depends as well how much stress it would cause you to ask him. Try and do what's best for you emotionally in the long term.

 

[dancingfox]

I spoke to my manager about it and she said he wouldn't do that because he could loose his job if he did that. I'm not sure whether or not to ask him about it. I think if it turned out he had, I wouldn't want to speak to him ever again.

I get the impression that there is much more going on here then a comment from a colleague that was or wasn't meant in a mocking manner. If asking your colleague upfront would be to stressful then you shouldn't put yourself through that.

Maybe it would help if you would share a little more about it, if you feel comfortable doing that? In that way you would be 'breaking the communication blocks' in a safe space. You can't control how others talk about you but you can control how you handle it.

You are not alone in using the I Ching to try and get into other peoples heads... I have been there myself more then once so I get it. In my experience my question circled back to myself, every single time. This has been a frustrating process at times but in the end it has always empowered me.

I hope the I Ching can do the same for you.

 

[Liselle]

It's certainly possible 45.6 means go talk to him, that might be the most direct interpretation.

But if it was me, I think I'd ask Yi that specific question before barrelling ahead and doing it. There's enough confusion with the question and answer to justify that, I think. "What if I talk to him?," "What difference would it make if I talked to him about this?," "What could I expect if I confront him?," or something.

Yi could give you some idea of the risk/reward, hopefully. You don't want to make things worse for yourself while having no effect on his behavior (if in fact his behavior needs correction, which from what you've said you're not sure of).

Also as Trojina said it might depend on your current relationship and what you know about him. Is he a habitual jerk? Is he basically a nice person who succumbed to a bad angel for 30 seconds? In either case what would talking to him accomplish?

 

[Trojina]

But if it was me, I think I'd ask Yi that specific question before barrelling ahead and doing it.

Well it's down to personality also how anyone would handle it. We don't know giraffe's personality. No amount of Yi questioning is going to make this safe or certain.

But if it was me, I think I'd ask Yi that specific question before barrelling ahead and doing it. There's enough confusion with the question and answer to justify that, I think. "What if I talk to him?," "What difference would it make if I talked to him about this?," "What could I expect if I confront him?," or something.

But if you imagine you knew ahead of time what difference it would make you wouldn't bother talking to him at all and then you'd never know what he would have said. I think here you're suggesting talking to Yi instead of him which could just lead to more deliberation/confusion instead of going straight to him.

And the approach to/question to him need not be hostile it could be more along the lines of 'this is really troubling me and I just need to ask you...' not an accusation but 'this is how I'm feeling' which is along the lines of 45.6. It's not a life/death thing, he only has to give his side of things.

In either case what would talking to him accomplish?

Well surely it's a direct way of accomplishing closure, settlement, peace of mind. As I said it gives him chance to clear the decks, to reassure or make amends. If he won't or indeed he was talking about her well she knows where she stands with him. And of course the cost of not clearing up things like this is they stay on your mind for years and eat away at you.


I mean giraffe has to decide if that would be something she'd want to do or whether it would be too upsetting



I once worked with a woman, a friend, who one day thought she had walked into the office at the point where everyone was talking about her and laughing at her. I was there in the room and they weren't talking about her at all. She was very upset later and took a lot of convincing no one was talking about her. But if I hadn't been able to convince her she would have that as a memory for the next 30 years, that horrible day she walked into the office and everyone was talking about her and laughing.

 

[Liselle]

Mostly because I'm envisioning more downside than upside. I have a hard time imagining how anyone could say something like that to someone else without the other person seeing it as hostile or accusatory. "I thought I heard you making fun of me..." - I think most people would get defensive.

What would a good outcome be? "You know, you're right, Giraffecloud. I was making fun of you, and I shouldn't have - I'm sorry." What are the chances of that?

Even if he hadn't been talking about her at all: either he'd be able to say, "Ah, what you must have heard was ________," or else he wouldn't remember. I still think it would be a rare person who wouldn't get defensive or mark Giraffe down as someone who confronts people based on something she thinks she heard through an air duct. (We all know you can hear conversations perfectly well through air ducts, but there's a little bit of spy farce in saying so, imo.)

And that's if he's not an utter jerk. If he is, I think it gets worse. If he's really a bad egg, better proof will come along surely.

And this is at work. There could be a lot at stake, as Giraffecloud's boss already implied. Probably makes it more likely he'd deny it, and then what? Yi could answer that question. "It'll scare him enough that he'll stop being a jerk" (good). "It'll cause you more strife than him" (bad) - who knows what.

But of course I could be wrong about the possible outcomes, and I do see how 45.6 could mean go talk to him. I just think it's risky enough to be worth a specific reading first.

 

[Liselle]

The only way closure happens is if (a) he admits it and apologizes profusely, or (b) he really didn't say it and can convince Giraffe of that. Every other possiblity I can think of leaves it hanging, only now more escalated.

I don't think either (a) or (b) is terribly likely.

 

[Trojina]

The only way closure happens is if (a) he admits it and apologizes profusely, or (b) he really didn't say it and can convince Giraffe of that. Every other possiblity I can think of leaves it hanging, only now more escalated.

Well no I don't think that is only what closure is here, though maybe 'closure' isn't the best word. It also accomplishes something if she finds out where she stands with him even if it's awful. Then she can decide when and if she ever wants to communicate with him again. That's closure too. It's not 'hanging' she can decide to cut him out as much a she can or decide how she wants to feel about /be with him. But I don't know how much contact she has to have with him anyway.

I don't know, if it was me I'd ask him I think. After all it's also sticking up for yourself, not letting that kind of thing happen. But I imagine the relationship is poor or it wouldn't be an issue. Presumably giraffe already has cause to think this person isn't on her side.

Also I'd watch for the next interactions, the next time she spends time with him, how is he with her. It could be he never was talking about her and the next time she sees him she might wonder how she could ever think so when he is nice and so on.

Anyway, I don't know, only giraffe knows all the factors.

 

[Trojina]

or mark Giraffe down as someone who confronts people based on something she thinks she heard through an air duct.

I actually don't know what hearing someone through an airduct means? Not that it matters a great deal, I get the gist but I don't know how you hear people through airducts. What kind of airduct? Would the person be in the next room or on another floor?

 

[Liselle]

Also I'd watch for the next interactions, the next time she spends time with him, how is he with her.

Yes. She can be on guard even without a confrontation. I certainly would be.

only giraffe knows all the factors.

True.

I actually don't know what hearing someone through an airduct means? Not that it matters a great deal, I get the gist but I don't know how you hear people through airducts. What kind of airduct? Would the person be in the next room or on another floor?

Probably the closer it is the better you'd hear. If one person's right next to the vent on one end and the other person's right next to the vent on the other end, the sound might be pretty close to what it would be if the wall wasn't there.

I don't know any details, though. Does the duct reverberate the sound and distort it? Muffle it? Amplify it? Have experiments been done? All I know is it's possible to hear via them. E.g. if my cat is accidentally locked in the room on the other end of the apartment, if she meows loudly I will hear her through the vent.

 

[giraffecloud]

Thankyou everybody for your insight. To answer Trojina's question, his voice was carried through a pipe that was linked to a room on the same floor.

I did another reading but I was more specific this time.

"Would it be a good idea to ask him about what he said?".

Hexagram 39.5

Limping.

So I feel the Yi is suggesting I go a completely different way about the situation. There is one different way I can think of and that is to ask another colleague who's voice I recognised. She is somebody I get along with.

The changing line has me thinking that the limping is description of my depression and that as long as I just keep going, people will come to my aid when they see me struggling.

 

[Liselle]

"Would it be a good idea to ask him about what he said?".

Hexagram 39.5

Limping.

So I feel the Yi is suggesting I go a completely different way about the situation. There is one different way I can think of and that is to ask another colleague who's voice I recognised. She is somebody I get along with.

39.5 to 15
'Greatly limping; partners come.'

And there's an actual real partner!

15 - you'll get the authentic story, bring things down to reality (something like that).

 

[Liselle]

I once worked with a woman, a friend, who one day thought she had walked into the office at the point where everyone was talking about her and laughing at her. I was there in the room and they weren't talking about her at all. She was very upset later and took a lot of convincing no one was talking about her. But if I hadn't been able to convince her she would have that as a memory for the next 30 years, that horrible day she walked into the office and everyone was talking about her and laughing.

Ah, I see your point, good example, thanks.

Hopefully when Giraffe talks to her other co-worker it'll get straightened out. As you said, either way it's better to know than not. I'm just glad there's someone who's more of a friend who she can ask, who's not the alleged perpetrator.

 

[IrfanK]

"Would it be a good idea to ask him about what he said?".

Hexagram 39.5

I think it means seeking out a friend in the workplace and going and having a long chat with them about it. Perhaps they'll provide a fresh perspective, perhaps they'll offer some solution. If they really are a friend, they'll be tactful and kind and perhaps show you that it isn't really important.

I realize that you didn't intentionally eavesdrop, but it is no doubt true that people are usually more frank in their opinions about someone when that person isn't actually there. If it were me, I'd let them know that I can hear them when they talk in the next room, to give them a chance to keep their mouth shut. I think you do have to accept that there are often frictions in the workplace and people share their feelings about it with people they trust. So long as they are polite and professional in actually dealing with you, they have a right not to like you. It happens. It's often not really personal, they just can't stand the whole section that you work in. So they pour it out when you aren't around. Water duck back.

 

[giraffecloud]

Thankyou everyone, I spoke to the other colleague. She explained that she has a back and fourth with the guy and when she insults him he pretends to cry. She was very concerned for my wellbeing and said if I ever wanted to talk to her about anything, she's there for me.