Withdraw before marriage?

[cheiron]

Can anyone help me to make sense of this reading please?

Two years ago I met a woman to whom I was very attracted. We worked in the same unit (Community Mental Health) and given the pressures there was a tacit agreement that we would just enjoy each others company? a few lovely dinners etc?

I moved away and we continued to go out every few months or so? Now I have returned to the same Health service, but in a different sector team? we have just finished collaborating on a one off project and have grown a lot closer? both of us have indicated interest in each other? and now the way is clear. But I am not interested in a brief affair.

I am being cautious as I feel that this relationship could become permanent (I have a lot of deep and warm feelings toward her) and because it would mean refusing a previous offer to a very close female friend (ex partner) to come and live with me while she changes jobs and sells her flat?

I asked, ? Would it be wise to pursue a more permanent relationship with V??

Hmm, Yes the Q. is flawed. (chuckles)

Response: Hx. 33, line 6 becoming 31

And we have planned a celebratory dinner (two of us) for next week!

Thanks and greetings to all

Cheiron

 

[Frankelmick]

Cheiron,

These are just some ideas and I hope I don't over-step the mark.

Hx. 33, line 6 becoming 31

This represents the end of the time of withdrawing. Sounds like you know all about not being in a permanent relationship, and now maybe that period in your life could be coming to an end?

Hx 31 is very sexual to me. A mountain inside a lake. You don't have to be Herr Doktor Freud to work that one out, do you?

So, the answer to your question "Would it be wise to pursue a more permanent relationship with V?" seems to be hinting at a very mutually satisfactory relationship marking the end of a time in your life when you've been backing away from commitment.

As I say, just my thoughts but I hope some of it is useful.

Every best wish,

Mick
http://www.north-node.com/

 

[candid]

Ahhhhh so THIS is the one referred to in your earlier posting.

This is one of those readings which can be answered with common sense and strong personal values, which I believe you already possess. I think you?ve already made the choice/decision before even inquiring of Yi. The Ching has supported your decision and shows how to go about it.

Would the question accurately read us thus? How do I tell V that I?m withdrawing my offer without causing our friendship real and permanent harm? (It seems pretty obvious where your heart and head is.)

There is your one comment which I?m not sure I understand: ?And we have planned a celebratory dinner (two of us) for next week!? Is this a calibration with V or the one whom you envision an enduring intimate relationship with? The outcome of the answer remains the same regardless who the calibration dinner is with, but its relevant to the gravity of the question. I?m no Dear Abby of I Ching, but I?m venturing to answer this on my gut feeling and the fact that understand you to be a virtuous man.

Retreat from any further encouragement with V. If the dinner was to celebrate you and V coming together again, even as temporary roomies, withdraw the idea in a friendly manner, along with withdraw any enthusiasm for moving in together.

?If the right moment is chosen, the retreat can be carried out within the forms of perfect friendliness, without the necessity of disagreeable discussions.? ~Wilhelm

If you are were planning a dinner with this associate, this doesn?t enter in. But I understand you to mean the former. Its possible that if you and V have an open and honest repoire, you might consider keeping the dinner, but adjusting what is being celebrated; that of two old friends getting together for awhile.

One question I have for you is: Has your relation with V been one of openness and candor? If so, you should easily be able to explain your attraction and vision for this other in your life to her in perfect friendliness. Allot depends on where V?s sensitivities are. If she?s empathetic and truly loves you like a friend, she?ll understand, and your dilemma will cease to exist. If V is prone to jealousy and is still actually romantically attached to you, the retreat takes on a more severe withdrawal, but that?s not how I?m reading it.

Ideally, you could remain friends with V, at least if it could still be a good friendship. But, in these matters, it often comes down to all or nothing. In which case, I?d take nothing and be thankful for it.

One additional thing I?d be cautious of, and while not directly related to your question, I feel its relevant to advise. While I am in absolute agreement concerning 31?s definition and meaning of wooing, I?d caution about focusing what may be an inordinate amount of expectation upon your still budding relationship with your associate, and just how much of your dedication ought be applied in wooing her, at this time. Obsessing repels. Rather, continue showing consideration for her in small ways. The differences between courtship and seduction is, both, the motive and the patience.

(Note) This synchs with a discussion here yesterday on the board. I?ve just read all the change lines in your relating hexagram (31). This is good stuff that can be applied to your situation, overall, concerning wooing and courtship. The context of reading the relating changes lines (all) is like that of the teacher, spending a little extra time conversing with you about the subject (relating hexagram). Like saying, school is out. What say we grab a cup of tea and just talk about it some more?

Finally, to your dilemna I shall add, I should have such problems!!!

Your friend,
Candid

 

[candid]

Oohh, I?m afraid I?ve erred. I?ve mistakenly read line 5 rather than 6. This makes your situation easier yet. You instinctively know what?s right, and by now, are probably already experiencing relief from stress about the decisions. In your heart-mind, the decision to retreat from further intimacy with V, has been already made.

My apology for the error.

 

[cheiron]

Hi Mick

No, You have not overstepped anything... on the contrary...

How very perceptive? yes I spent 15 years in a most excellent relationship? and for a long time wondered whether I could ever commit again? many short relationships followed? some of which linger as very good friendships and one or two which are a little more but divided by the sea and time.

This feels different? so much so that I have left it to find its own time.

I have always (nearly) been honest and open with lovers and friends?

See my reply to Candid below? explains more?

Yes, I think this period is coming to an end? an important time? Suppose I really do not want to get hurt (again) hurt others (again!) or muck it up. (US = mess it up)

My friend, with countless years of psychotherapy training behind me ? I did miss the mountain and the lake symbolism (embarrassment)? Guess I shouldn?t have trashed Freud as much as I did

Thank you for finding that there ? only because I am still learning the ways of the trigrams and am trying to feel the way they interact.

Your perception of the end of the time of withdrawing is very true to my feelings about the time? but how did you get that out of Hx 33 line 6 ?

Would you share a little of the mechanics of how you got to where you did?

I am sure you are right and am not a little stunned at your perceptiveness.

In great appreciation

Thanks

--Cheiron

 

[cheiron]

Hi Candid

Yes, this is the relationship I mentioned my friend? she is cool (of emotion with a glint in her eye) and is of the deep pool variety? intense and honest. Used to be my boss...

Thanks, (chuckles)? your welcome to my problem as long as you have my psychopathology and angst as well

Ooooh, I wrote my thread in Word (I can?t spell very well) and somehow the system dumped my punctuation and delivered a message which was less than clear (read totally garbled)? my apologies.

V is the ex-colleague who I like very much and with whom I have never been free to explore my emerging feelings.

My ex is the person whom, in a moment of compassion and madness, I made an offer to come and stay with me to ease her job change which is near me but will mean she has to move house. (Commuting across London makes the dark ages look advanced and comfortable).

It is V I am going to dinner with? we have just finished a difficult project which has meant that I have been working with her in her sector? The dinner is to celebrate the end of a very traumatic period of work.

My angst about the dinner comes from signals we offered each other on a night out recently, 'that we would both like to develop things.'

Now this latter remark might seem odd? the US and the UK are said to be divided by a common language.! Essentially in the UK we use a high level of inferred speech? rather than direct ?I mean what I say' speech. So it is not unusual for two people, especially in my profession, to indicate an intention by inference and to leave things indicated but unresolved until a better time?

V and I have done this for two years as we waited for the time to be right. (Which is rather nice and shows mutual confidence)

So the dinner is likely to be a starting gun? and I am not a little anxious about that.

Yes, as you say I have made a decision but want to proceed correctly.

And yes, how do I tell ?my Ex?, who yes, still has romantic hopes despite us agreeing that we should not continue on that road. I don?t want to hurt her more than need be? and must not screw up her move.

(As I was writing this ?my ex? telephoned and we discussed it all? she is being really great about it all and spent most of the time looking at ways we can protect our friendship ? we have a seriously good friendship? she is my best pal)

I take on board your caution re. looking toward permanence in a relationship which is still at the earlier stages of development? No, really I just feel like that and want to allow it the space to go there if it will.

Candid my friend? my confusion is really Hx. 33.

Warmest greetings

Cheiron

PS Yes please? Tea with milk and no sugar? splendid my friend!

 

[candid]

Cheiron,

Nine at the top means:
Cheerful retreat. Everything serves to further.
The situation is unequivocal. Inner detachment has become an established fact, and we're at liberty to depart. When one sees the way ahead thus clearly, free of all doubt, a cheerful mood sets in, and one chooses what's right without further thought. Such a clear path ahead always leads to the good.

This is from Wilhelm and is what I referred to. Its not an end to the retreat, but it does establish that the decision to retreat (cheerfully) has become an established fact. Once the matter is settled in your heart-mind, you experience relief and the way ahead becomes clear.

~Candid

 

[candid]

Ok, now I understand which one is V. The retreat is from your gracious, but ill thought out offer to your ex. It appears that this has already happened during your phone call with her. I'm very glad that you two will still manage a friendship.

(Some changes just won't wait for us to understand them fully before changing! *chuckle*)

Best wishes with the deep pool variety, my friend!

~Candid

 

[Frankelmick]

Cheiron,

I'm glad that my comments were useful to you.

"Your perception of the end of the time of withdrawing is very true to my feelings about the time? but how did you get that out of Hx 33 line 6 ?

Would you share a little of the mechanics of how you got to where you did?"

Well I'll do my best.

The initial line of a hexagram often means the very start of something and the top line tends to mean a situation coming to an end. It's not a bad general idea I find, although every reading is different of course.

As I read it, the context of your question is all about relationships and commitment. Hx 33 shows 4 Yang lines retreating from the 2 advancing Yin lines.

So Hx 33, line 6 seemed to be about the end of a time of withdrawing from a long-term relationship. Especially with the change to hx 31 which is the start of the Lower Canon and represents the way of a man and a woman in a mutual relationship.

Does that make sense to you?

Best wishes,

Mick

 

[supanatural]

Greetings To All...

Cheiron, The question being ? Would it be wise to pursue a more permanent relationship with V??


Response: Hx. 33, line 6 becoming 31

Retreat from Influences that are not in harmony with Natural Order, or the truth of the situation.

If you have already made some kind of verbal agreement with someone....I would view this as an answer to retreat from being influenced to go in a different direction.

SupaNatural "It is to be that Ifa divination be continually performed so that the forces in one's life be understood and controlled"

 

[willow]

Hi Cheiron,

This is going to be fast, as I'm rushing off to work, so I apologize if I blunder because I've missed something written above.

All I want to add right now is a comment about how #33 is associated with the 6th month. Solstice has passed, but the harvest is not yet ripe. From the point of view of the plants, the energy of new beginnings is in the seeds (potential), but they are not yet ready to harvest. The plant is withdrawing its energy from vegetative growth, into seed growth. It is no longer scattering its forces, but focusing them.

Connecting that to the LiSe interpretation:
"Withdraw from all things that are not compatible with your hopes for life. Making a real life is not only making it ? the largest part is escaping from losing it. "

So I would say a correct retreat would be one in which you nurture your future, and let go of what you no longer need from the past.

In the case of the friend who is potentially staying, what is the seed that you want to nurture on? Something of integrity and continuity, and being a person who willingly supports others maybe? Is there a way to nurture that seed, while still withdrawing from (or redefining the current offer), a sort of "that would not be appropriate for me at this time," that instead of breaking the relationship, would serve to have it genuinely come from you? here is a LiSe warning in #33 too, "The more you live others lives, the more piggies of your own you will lose."

In the case of the new relationship, what is the seed you want to plant there?

In both cases, how do you continue to be what is most essentially and truly you, while letting go of whatever forms or attachments are intended to be released?

Hope that helps!

 

[cheiron]

Hi Candid, Supanatural, Mick, Willow and all

Thanks for the help... saddly I have had a number of incidents to deal with (work) which have kept me busy well into the night all week, and have not had time to read your words properly yet...

Will read them over the weekend... didn't want you to think I was careless of the time and care you have taken / given.

thanks

Cheiron

PS - But have now discussed all with my now 'ex-girlfriend' in a candid and caring way. We are hoping to keep a good close friendship.

Am now clear to go out with V. without risk of causing hurt / confusion to those for whom I care.