26.1.2 to 52 for work related issue

exnihilo · Mar 12, 2006

Hello,

I'd also like to hear your thoughts on the following two readings. I'm trying to get a collegue to work with me on something and I have a feeling that his company is stopping him even though he won't admit it. I asked the following two questions and I interpreted it as yes, his company is definitely playing role in this, In fact, it seemed so right to the point that I was surprised. However, I still want a second (or third) opinion.

What is Company X's role in this?
26.1.2 to 52

What's stopping M from going ahead with me on this?
60.3 to 5

bruce · Mar 12, 2006

Agreeing with your interpretation. Company X is putting the kibosh on this thing, big time. Line 2 may even refer to your colleague?s position being threatened. 60.3 seems to say the same. Based on 5, it may not be too long before things change, however.

bruce · Mar 12, 2006

Although, based on company X's 52, your colleague is likely the one who would initiate the change.

dobro · Mar 12, 2006

"What is Company X's role in this?
26.1.2 to 52"

Company X is greatly restraining him, so that now he's dead in the water.

"What's stopping M from going ahead with me on this? 60.3 to 5"

Well, I think you got the answer to this question in the 26.1.2>52 consultation. But perhaps the Yi is adding that because the employee in question hasn't learned how to limit the restraining influence of Company X, the situation's unfortunate. He has to learn how to let X Co. restrain him less.

exnihilo · Mar 31, 2006

Things are not looking good and I'm feeling a bit guilty. However, I don't see how this could have been MY fault, but I'm still feeling bad about it. I don't want to go into details except to say that this business environment is extremely byzantine, shot through with intrigue and backstabbing.

How is my proposal affecting his relationship with Company X?
62.1.3 to 51

I'd say that his relationship with them is in some sort of danger. I don't like line 3 AT ALL. Bruce hinted that possibly 26.2 indicated a position being threated. Here, it looks even more likely.

What will happen between them if he accepts the proposal?
23

This seems clear enough. They will sack him.

How is this affecting his career?
29.1 to 60

Holy cow. I just don't see how I could have caused this. Perhaps he has been pushing for my proposal even though he hasn't said a word about it to me?

I also asked "What's going on between him and Compnay X?" 6.4 to 59

What does he want to do about Company X?
41.4 to 4

I don't think I've ever had the IC give me a clearer set of answers. Often, I will ask about an issue and the answers puzzle me. Here, it seems just the opposite. Why? Is this something important for me to know? Has this ever happened to anyone else here?

rosada · Mar 31, 2006

You certainly do seem to be in the Zone with this one! I had a similar experience was when I consulted the I Ching about a friend who had cut me off due to a misunderstanding. Off and on for several years i asked if we would ever see each other again. Unfortunately I don't remember the hexagrams I received, but they all again and again suggested death. I took this to be a "no"....And then, lo and behold, we bumped into each other at a funeral! We had a very nice chat, and all was forgiven ( but alas, the friendship never came back to life).
Anyway, point is, yeah, sometimes IC is very clear about what it has to tell us, but even so, things may not be what we thought....

exnihilo · Mar 31, 2006

"Unfortunately I don't remember the hexagrams I received, but they all again and again suggested death. I took this to be a "no"....And then, lo and behold, we bumped into each other at a funeral!"

Bizarre! I like it though

exnihilo · Apr 25, 2006

I've been meaning to ask...

Bruce, you said,

"Although, based on company X's 52, your colleague is likely the one who would initiate the change."

Why do you say that because of 52?

white_dog · Apr 25, 2006

Because a mountain (the company's position) isn't likely to budge, so if there is a change in your friend's position, he's the one who will have to initiate it, though he appears to be in a holding pattern (5), or was at the time of this reading.

exnihilo · Apr 25, 2006

"...though he appears to be in a holding pattern (5), or was at the time of this reading."

Given the situation (too detailed to go into here) there really isn't a lot he can do except wait.

I'm also getting readings that suggest conflict between him and his company over this: "What's going on between them over this?" - 6.4 to 59. There's some trouble brewing.

I also asked again: "How is my proposal affecting his relationship with Company X?" - 36.1 to 15

Sounds a lot like the earlier answer of 62.1.3 to 51. Doesn't look like much has changed. I see 62 and 36 as being very similar. Seems he's flying low, hiding his brightness. Perhaps he doesn't want to piss them off.

I haven't brought any of this up with him though as it's a rather delicate situation and I feel that he's a bit upset about it all. When I asked what his intentions are the Yi answered with: 5.1 to 48 which sounded pretty good.

exnihilo · Apr 28, 2006

I've been agonizing over this issue, still, so any wise insight from other I-Chingers would be most welcome. I want to know if Company x is ever going to give in about this.

"What is Company X planning on doing about my proposal?"

34.3.5 to 58

!!!!! This looks good does it not? Oh, please say it's so. They're going to finally lose the damned goat and sit down to talk about it (58). Do you agree?

void · Apr 28, 2006

Then again so often the Yi refers one back to oneself that even though you phrased the question about company x's plans I'm not so sure the Yi is not addressing your attitude to the proposals.

Hmm in which case you've been very determined about all this and its time for you to let the goat go. Is that an option ?

Just a thought that came to me because I find asking about others motives is just not the most helpful way to consult the Yi as for myself I tend to get wholly confused and get the wrong end of the stick anyway. I always find its good to stay with what the appropriate action or attitude for YOU is - then its easier to get a handle on things.

exnihilo · Apr 28, 2006

I've received pretty good answers when asking about others. That's one reason I continue to do it. If I ask what someone is planning to do I get a good idea of where a situation is at.

If we can't trust the Yi to answer the question we actually asked then what's the use in consulting it? In addition, I don't like to ask about appropriate actions because I don't like the idea of having the Yi give me advice. The Yi is there to give me a rough idea about a situation, nothing more. However, since you brought it up I asked, "What should I do about this?"

29 to 43

I don't look at the lines when I get this many, only the hexes. I'm reading this as: It's dangerous for me to do anything but there will be a breakthrough involved. This makes sense. I could really piss a lot of people off if I push this and I wouldn't gain, I'd lose, big time.

void · Apr 28, 2006

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

If we can't trust the Yi to answer the question we actually asked then whats the use in consulting it ?<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Well I guess I differ greatly in my view of the Yi to you. Very different indeed. You mean you think the Yi just shows you how things are, gives you insight into the hearts and minds of others and has no useful guidance to give you ? Wow ! So you think if a burglar asks the Yi whats the best kind of property to rob tonight the Yi just answers like a good little Yi - does as its told hmmm.

Well I just don't see the Yi as that kind of servant, no. So I can't relate much at all to your thinking and I'll leave others to help you with this from now on.

You say re 29 to 43 <blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

I'm reading this as : Its dangerous for me to do anything but there will be a breakthrough involved. This makes sense. I could really piss alot of people off if I push this and won't gain<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Well that makes sense to me too.

exnihilo · Apr 29, 2006

Hi Void,

At least we agree on the 29 to 43 response

"You mean you think the Yi just shows you how things are, gives you insight into the hearts and minds of others and has no useful guidance to give you ?"

Isn't that useful guidance? It gives me a picture of the current situation. I will ask questions like, "What's going on here?", "What is X planning to do about this?", "What do I need to know about this situation?" etc. I almost always receive clear answers when I do this. To give an example:

I recently asked, for a friend, a question about HIS career: "What does manager Y think about X?" 35 to 41. The manager's view of the project didn't sound as positive as my friend had first thought and I told him that I saw some problems there. The manager has reservations about the project. I told him that based on the current reading he might want to get ready for a "No" to the project and that's exactly what happened. All I did was use the Yi to tap into the manager's thoughts. It gives me a very general idea of what's happening.

I TRY to stay away from questions about the future and questions about what action I should take. THOSE are the questions I find the most difficult to interpret. However, the 29 to 43 answer seemed pretty clear. I didn't need to ask it though, because I know very well that I would be risking a lot to push the issue.

void · Apr 29, 2006

So, out of interest, with regard to your 34,3 and 5 throw, did you think it might be about you or did you remain quite sure the Yi was answering your exact question ? Just wondering.

BTW I'd regard 29,4 as a significant opening point, it is after all the basic requirments handed in through the window so it would appear the situation is not in complete deadlock. You're given what you need to get on with things.

I do ask about others motives sometimes, but kind of regard it as dodgy ground. Life gets less complicated with less plotting and subterfuge, well it does for me. I realised a while ago I wasn't equipped for that stuff, I got anxious and confused

and decided it was better to deal with what the other put in front of me, what they wanted me to know, otherwise my brain would short circuit

but if it works for you, well I guess i can't knock it then.

exnihilo · Apr 29, 2006

"So, out of interest, with regard to your 34,3 and 5 throw, did you think it might be about you or did you remain quite sure the Yi was answering your exact question ? Just wondering."

I immediately felt that the Yi was answering my exact question. One reason I felt that was because I believe that this proposal WILL indeed go through at some point. I will have success eventually. I also wouldn't have been able to understand the relating 58 if I had felt the Yi had been speaking about MY stance. But, in this situation, 58, a hex about communication and negotiation, seems to make sense.

Do you think my original reading about company X, 26 to 52, was the Yi speaking to me or about company X's role in this? If the Yi was speaking to me, what was it saying?

"BTW I'd regard 29,4 as a significant opening point, it is after all the basic requirments handed in through the window so it would appear the situation is not in complete deadlock."

Maybe this relates to my feeling that the proposal will be accepted eventually. I felt that the 43 also spoke about that.

"do ask about others motives sometimes, but kind of regard it as dodgy ground. Life gets less complicated with less plotting and subterfuge, well it does for me."

I know what you're saying. Someone once told me that I was attempting to gain an "unfair advantage" by using the Yi in this manner. But, I merely see it as gaining a LITTLE insight into a situation.

void · Apr 29, 2006

I guess I don't know. There was something about how you worded the first question that made it seem clearly not subterfuge etc, just asking quite an objective question. Also the answer did seem very clear so intuitively yes I felt that the Yi was answering your question. But as it got more complex, involving a particular person - with whom you seemed determined to have your way

I felt the determination in 34 and the lines might be applying to you.

Many times people here stress one should really go with ones own gut instinct about a reading. Often the first reaction that comes may be trusted. If your understanding is really on a gut level then it has to be right, others might offer a different way of seeing it but you have to trust yourself first.

BTW I find that what one needs to know about a situation will come to light quite naturally or spontaneously in flashes of intuition etc if its in harmony with the general flow and good of things.

Certainly I really don't think its possible for anyone to gain an unfair advantage over others with the Yi. Why ? Because as soon as that is your motive I think it likley the Yi just points out your motive, just whether or not you are in harmony with your own way at that time or not.

So I kinda think you under use the Yi if you don't seek any guidance from it. But you say you get really reliable answers so the way you consult must be right for you - if it works for you.... Buuut then surely its quicker and more effective to ask about ones own role/attitude/behaviour in a situation because at the end of the day that is what you need to know - and your own behaviour/understanding is often about the only variable you can affect ?

exnihilo · Apr 29, 2006

"Also the answer did seem very clear so intuitively yes I felt that the Yi was answering your question."

Me too. In fact, I had a hunch I was going to get that answer (26 to 52) before I even through the coins.

"But as it got more complex, involving a particular person - with whom you seemed determined to have your way I felt the determination in 34 and the lines might be applying to you."

LOL The truth is that I'm not even sure whom I was asking about

because I don't even know who at Company X is making the decisions, although I have an idea. I do agree with you that the very first question felt 100% spot on, said it all, and I probably don't need to ask any more questions. That 60.3 to 5 felt correct as well. Who knows, you could be right about the 34 to 58. Perhaps the Yi is getting annoyed with me

"Many times people here stress one should really go with ones own gut instinct about a reading. Often the first reaction that comes may be trusted."

Yes but...now you have me wondering if I'm the goat

white_dog · Apr 29, 2006

lol - a wondering goat loses his horns.

exnihilo · Apr 30, 2006

"a wondering goat loses his horns."

It is kind of funny.

Here's one for Void: "What are the legal issues involved?" (I asked this a month or two ago) The Yi responded with 9 to 39. Now, I'm going to assume that the Yi answered the exact question because, like the first one, it was very objective. My interpretation of that answer is that there ARE legal issues involved and they are holding things up.

I guess time will tell whether or not the 34 to 58 was an answer to me. If I don't see any changes then I'm going to believe that Void was correct. Perhaps I should be more careful of my questions.

void · Apr 30, 2006

It only just occured to me to how the phrase, used in UK anyway "it gets my goat" means how something arouses the stubborn antagonist in oneself, funny I never thought of that before, makes 'losing the goat' make more sense to me. I've not had much to do with goats, I presume they must be very stubborn ?

Re the legal issues question, if thats the interpretation that leapt out at you then it wouldn't be an unreasonable conclusion to come to I guess. I would always keep an open mind that the Yi is commenting on my attitude though so I'd back off fretting/hassling/champing at the bit to get on with it/solve it.

Mostly I think people do intuitively know if the Yi is referring to an outside circumstance or their own attitudes. However I think this can be lost if one is very attached to a particular outcome.

exnihilo · May 1, 2006

"Mostly I think people do intuitively know if the Yi is referring to an outside circumstance or their own attitudes. However I think this can be lost if one is very attached to a particular outcome."

You may indeed be right about this. I am attached to an outcome on this one. Maybe I'm not seeing things clearly at all. In all truth, the only reading on the subject that I felt sure about was the first one (26 to 52), the same one that you also felt was answering my exact question:

"There was something about how you worded the first question...the answer did seem very clear so intuitively yes I felt that the Yi was answering your question."

I also felt pretty certain about 60.3 to 5, but that's it. In fact, when I asked another, very similar question (ashamed to say that it was a yes-no question) the Yi said 60 to 28:

"Will this EVER go through?"
(Can you feel the frustration?)

Could the Yi be merely reflecting the fact that I'M experiencing limitations? Prior to thinking about what you said I would have answered in the negative. Now I'm not so sure.

Maybe I should have either put away the coins at the point I received 26 to 52 or asked one more question, about what I should do. You have given me a lot to think about.

I have noticed that the Yi seems to match my emotions, what I'm feeling when I throw the coins. If this is true, maybe it's better to let someone else throw the coins?

jerryd · May 1, 2006

Exnihilo.....Allowing someone els to throw the coins is an exelent choice as far as i am concerned. You dont see a physician doing surgery on himself. Being so involved in the question is one reason I never ask my self to consult the IC on my own merit. I have almost never recieve an answer to a question which i dont already know, or at least have considered.!!
The old saying I remember is...an attorney who defends him self has a fool for a client.?

exnihilo · May 1, 2006

Jerryd,

I think I'm starting to believe this myself. On that note I would like to try something if you (and Void) are interested. I've given a brief description of the situation I'm facing. I know someone, let's call him A. He works for Company X. With that little information would YOU like to come up with an objective question, ask the Yi and report your answer here? I don't want to tell you what to ask because I want to keep myself out of it completely. All I will say is that I'd like to know a bit more about what's going on.

void · May 1, 2006

I disagree with Jerry, I can't see the point of someone consulting for you unless you don't know anything at all about how to do it.

I don't see consulting the Yi as 'surgery' lol.
I am not asking to be healed. I'm having a conversation, my soul to the spirit of Yi. Furthermore I personally find the Yi far more usefully communicative than any doctor I ever met.

I don't think the Yis there just to tell you things about whats happening in the world. After all theres a million other more reliable ways to find out. As Dobro once spoofed here, questions like 'am I pregnant', 'where is my pizza' can be pretty easily answered by using the regular routes to information like telephones and pregnancy tests.

So the point is Exnihilo not that if your're too emotionally involved you won't 'get' the Yis answers,(tho that is so too) but that if your're too emotionally involved the Yi may well address that desperate end gaining behaviour as the real issue, that actually stands in the way of your fulfillment, and talk to you about that. Only you can talk to Yi about that.

Your question has no inner meaning or charge to my soul, so I could not go to the Yi with it. Must depend on what you think the Yi is ? To me its a living spirit. If you see it differently of course you will approach differently. I don't reckon the Yi cares much what we think it is, but I can't adopt your approach cos it wouldn't feel right to me.

I never found it works for me asking for others, not even close friends. Lots of people do though, Rosada for instance and Jerry ?

Hmm I shall follow with great interest !

exnihilo · May 1, 2006

Hi Void,

I appreciate your POV. I hope Jerry (or anyone else) is intersted though. I'm pretty curious to see if the response is anything like what I'VE received so far.

white_dog · May 1, 2006

Whether you ask for yourself, have someone else ask for you, or ask on behalf of another, should make no real difference to the outcome. What makes a difference is how the Yi is approached and how its answer is received, not by or for whom. If the approach and receptivity are wrong, it brings confusion and humiliation: Like a ting with a broken leg, the meal is spilled. The answer goes to waste.

jerryd · May 1, 2006

Well it seems there is some contoversy as to this situation. I did not place the answer I gave as an antidote to absolute success, and as for surgery being a comparison...well Void, a metaphore by anyother name is just that, and Exnihilo, I will consider you as a friend on this sight till you tell me other wise, not paying attention to Voids question mark.
I will give this situation some considration and let you know what comes of it.
Insight into anothers questions best come from the heart not the head so it may take me a bit to contact the Oracle.

jerryd · May 1, 2006

OOPs..I mis read what Void had said, and thought it was a part of questioning friendships, my appology to Void for the mis-interpertation. I believe "as to interpertation of a coin toss" we all are reading the toss of others here most of the time and interpertating it as if we threw it our self? In this instance; if I am asking a hypothetical, then why is it not reasonable for me to expect just as valid a reading as if it were thrown by someone els, in the same vein! After all this is a philosophical experiment in how each one of us tackles problems. Offering a twist as no one knows the missing ingredient. The truth.....

26.1.2 to 52 for work related issue

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