33.3.4.6 > 8 about how to break off contact with someone

foxx777 · Jun 9, 2012

I am not the kind of person to break off contact with a friend or family member unless things have gotten really, really bad - I tend to be long-suffering and patient; indeed, I go out of my way to avoid confrontation or conflict.

In any case, I do feel the need to do so now, yet am wondering (as I am not so good at these unpleasant things ) whether to do so with a long email giving full disclosure, or simply to do so without fanfare, and let X figure out why it came to this?

I asked the I Ching, What is the best way to end the contact with X?

I received 33.3.4.6 > 8: I grasp the basic ideas, but would like further insights. And would H8 mean that perhaps X had been too late in taking some of my gentle hints over the past many months? thnx as always:bows:

33. Withdrawal

Line 3:

Attached withdrawal.
There is distress and danger.
Restraining subjugation and submissiveness brings good fortune.

Withdrawing from a person or situation one is attached to. This is painful and risky. By not trying to control each other, or acting submissive, things go well. Respect each other, while being yourself.

Line 4:

Preferred withdrawal.
For the noble one good fortune,
the ordinary person is obstructed.

Withdrawing, while preferring to do so. This is good for the one withdrawing, but frustrating for the other party.

Line 6:

Fertile withdrawal.
Without disadvantage.

Withdrawing creates a fertile situation. The withdrawal is not causing any problems.

Hexagram is changing to:

8. Associate

Associate.
Good fortune.
The primary oracle of the first day will always persist.
Without fault.
It is unsettling to have just arrived,
men who are late have misfortune.

Associating with someone. Things go well, this is not mistake. Be well on time, if you're late things won't go well. If you cast an oracle about the nature of this association on its first day, you will know what always will be the situation with this.

ginnie · Jun 9, 2012

Line 33.3 goes best if we see ourselves as nurturing or furthering the other one. In other words, we would like to leave, but we realize that the other one is dependent on us.

Only someone who is exceptionally strong-willed can leave in 33.4. Because there is a strong attachment, most people would suffer if the tie is severed, even if we think it would be better to sever that tie. The one left behind would definitely suffer a lot.

Did you know that this hexagram is also sometimes called "Yielding," which seems to be the opposite to "Retreating." I think that is because we can also retreat inside ourselves without further ado ... and without one word being said. That is, we can become rather formal and distant without making a fuss about our reasons for being less available.

mulberry · Jun 9, 2012

It seems to me that there's no question about your association with X being over; it's fully done (in a psychic sense) and there's no question about it having been a necessary split. At this point the difficulty of coming to a decision about it for you is past. Perhaps for that reason the I Ching is trying to tell you it doesn't matter very much whether you give X a full-disclosure e-mail about it, or not. Would telling X what you really think help alleviate some of your frustration? If so, perhaps it would be good for you to write that e-mail but not actually send it.

My general feeling about severing contact with troublesome people is that it's best not to open a channel for communication about why you are upset with them if you are not actually interested in making amends. Since fixing your relationship does not seem to be the thing to work towards in this situation, I would say it's best to let sleeping dogs lie and just keep your distance from X... Know for yourself why you have severed contact with X, but let X figure it out on his or her own. And yes, it does seem that 8 means X was late to the party in terms of figuring out his or her behavior and its ultimate effects.

foxx777 · Jun 9, 2012

ginnie said:
Line 33.3 goes best if we see ourselves as nurturing or furthering the other one. In other words, we would like to leave, but we realize that the other one is dependent on us.

Only someone who is exceptionally strong-willed can leave in 33.4. Because there is a strong attachment, most people would suffer if the tie is severed, even if we think it would be better to sever that tie. The one left behind would definitely suffer a lot.

Did you know that this hexagram is also sometimes called "Yielding," which seems to be the opposite to "Retreating." I think that is because we can also retreat inside ourselves without further ado ... and without one word being said. That is, we can become rather formal and distant without making a fuss about our reasons for being less available.

Thanks so much for this, Ginnie; Quite illuminating, and no, I had not known that 33 was also referred to as the seemingly contrary "Yielding".

You know, I was already getting the sense, within myself (and perhaps this casting was mirroring this) that it would not be wise to send an email with a list of grievances and angry assertions, but that it might be best to simply cheerfully become unavailable.

pocossin · Jun 10, 2012

How to break off contact with someone?
33.3.4.6 > 8

Hexagram 33 is "Retreat". Why not simply stop initiating communication? Why worry about what X can figure out? I never cut anyone off absolutely, and if civilly spoken to by anyone, I respond civilly, but I have relatives and neighbors who have wronged others and who will never get close to me again. They are not worth trusting. Line 3: if you break, break totally. Line 4: do it with good will. If you two shouldn't be together, it is best for both that you separate. Line 6: enjoy not having to put up with X further. Hexagram 8: seek those you can hold together with.

foxx777 · Jun 10, 2012

mulberry said:
It seems to me that there's no question about your association with X being over; it's fully done (in a psychic sense) and there's no question about it having been a necessary split. At this point the difficulty of coming to a decision about it for you is past. Perhaps for that reason the I Ching is trying to tell you it doesn't matter very much whether you give X a full-disclosure e-mail about it, or not. Would telling X what you really think help alleviate some of your frustration? If so, perhaps it would be good for you to write that e-mail but not actually send it.

My general feeling about severing contact with troublesome people is that it's best not to open a channel for communication about why you are upset with them if you are not actually interested in making amends. Since fixing your relationship does not seem to be the thing to work towards in this situation, I would say it's best to let sleeping dogs lie and just keep your distance from X... Know for yourself why you have severed contact with X, but let X figure it out on his or her own. And yes, it does seem that 8 means X was late to the party in terms of figuring out his or her behavior and its ultimate effects.

Thanks so very much for that. Extremely helpful and affirming. :bows:

foxx777 · Jun 10, 2012

pocossin said:
How to break off contact with someone?
33.3.4.6 > 8

Hexagram 33 is "Retreat". Why not simply stop initiating communication? Why worry about what X can figure out? I never cut anyone off absolutely, and if civilly spoken to by anyone, I respond civilly, but I have relatives and neighbors who have wronged others and who will never get close to me again. They are not worth trusting. Line 3: if you break, break totally. Line 4: do it with good will. If you two shouldn't be together, it is best for both that you separate. Line 6: enjoy not having to put up with X further. Hexagram 8: seek those you can hold together with.

Excellent observations. Thank you!

precision grace · Jun 10, 2012

I am a bit thrown by this reading as it doesn't seem helpful as advice on how best to stop contact with this person, rather it seems to be predicting how it will go. 33.3 in particular is rubbish. I've had this casting when asking also how to get away from a connection with someone I felt helplessly emotionally attached to, and it sort of predicted a slow and sometimes retroactive retreat while still maintaining an illusion of not breaking away - if that makes any sense. It's almost as if you are forced to trick this person into thinking you still have a relationship so that in actuality you can get away with your sanity.
Sorry, hope I didn't muddle the waters and good luck.

foxx777 · Jun 10, 2012

precision grace said:
I am a bit thrown by this reading as it doesn't seem helpful as advice on how best to stop contact with this person, rather it seems to be predicting how it will go. 33.3 in particular is rubbish. I've had this casting when asking also how to get away from a connection with someone I felt helplessly emotionally attached to, and it sort of predicted a slow and sometimes retroactive retreat while still maintaining an illusion of not breaking away - if that makes any sense. It's almost as if you are forced to trick this person into thinking you still have a relationship so that in actuality you can get away with your sanity.
Sorry, hope I didn't muddle the waters and good luck.

No, of course you have not.

To tell you the truth, I have spent a great deal of my life feeling I am stuck in 33.3, and also have received this hex and line numerous times.

I agree. And i have found that faking these people out - pretending you are still in with them so they will just leave you alone part of the time - is a concession which always backfires. This is why I do not like Wilhelm's advice on this line: I know from experience just how very, very dangerous this is.

How often have I looked back and said, "good god, I ought NEVER have allowed this horrid person in my life; now look at the mess they have caused me."

Sometimes our own logic overrides the strategic maneuvers extolled in the I Ching.:bows:

precision grace · Jun 11, 2012

foxx777 said:
How often have I looked back and said, "good god, I ought NEVER have allowed this horrid person in my life; now look at the mess they have caused me."

Ha! I know that line well. But recently I've taken up this new strategy of trying to look positively on everything - as there is always something positive to be found. I've thought that line most often about my family, but I'm not sure how to learn from that experience. Maybe in my next life, I should choose my parents better?

jokes aside, I hope whatever you do that you feel within yourself that you are doing the right thing ..for you.

foxx777 · Jun 11, 2012

precision grace said:
Ha! I know that line well. But recently I've taken up this new strategy of trying to look positively on everything - as there is always something positive to be found. I've thought that line most often about my family, but I'm not sure how to learn from that experience. Maybe in my next life, I should choose my parents better? jokes aside, I hope whatever you do that you feel within yourself that you are doing the right thing ..for you.

Thanks.:bows: Am trying in any case...

Yes,a different family would be nice. I really believe that may be the only answer, next time around.

hopex · Jun 11, 2012

oh yes Foxx - pulling away leads to union

i always see 33 as withdrawing to fight another day
- going forward would be sure defeat - timely warning

dragona · Jun 12, 2012

Well, it is a hard process of letting all go, but not for everyone...just recently had ta chat with friend to whom i said that i cannot understand a person who just slams the door and walks away in anger from someone supposedly held dear...frankly, this speaks "teenager" to me.
He told me that egoistical types can do that. So this is for your distinction.
If you care enough to wonder how`s the best to do it (for other side?) just ask yourself how would X do it in my place? That should tell you a lot. Courage.

foxx777 · Jun 12, 2012

Thanks so much Hopex and Dragona. Yes, dragona, that is a good idea; had not thought of that, but it is very telling.

...life can be translucent

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