Hi all,
since a while I am looking for english books about Wen Wang Gua 文王卦 also known as Liu Yao Yi Gua 六爻易卦, Na Jia and as Six Line method or method of Six Lines in english.

It is very hard to find something at all about it, because there is simply almost nothing written about it in english. Finaly I had some luck because, Harmen Mesker http://i-tjingcentrum.nl/wp/ gave me this great hint:

The Secret of Wen Wang Gua by Jack Chiu:
http://www.acmc.com.hk/Book011.aspx

I have read this book and I can highly recommend it. I looked for a review here at the forum, but couldn`t find one and so I hope this information is actually new for you.

I write down here the table of contents for you, so that you know what you can expect from this book, because that is a lot:

Part 1: Wen-Wang Gua
The Basics of Yi
Fu-xi Ba-gua
Acquired Ba-gua
Metaphors of Ba-gua
Zhou Yi
The Rectangular and Circular Diagram of the 64 Hexagrams
What is Wen-Wang Gua?
Revealing Yi – Jing

Part 2: Casting
Notations of Changes
Casting Method
Evolution in Casting
Qian-Long Tong-Bao

Part 3: Setting
Stems and Branches Recording System
Wu-xing Properties of the 64 Hexagrams
Adoption of Heavenly Stems and Earthly Branches
The Six Relatives
Visible and Invisible Theory
The Active Line and the Changed Line
Six Celestial Figures

Part 4 Deciphering:
Effects of the Day of Casting
Effects of the Active Lines
The Twelve Cyclic Stages of Wu–xing
Other Considerations

Part 5: Wen-Wang Gua in Real Life
Example 1: Weather Forecast
Example 2: Medical School Application
Example 3: Accident Claims
Example 4: Divorce and Child Custody
Example 5: Health and Disease
Example 6: La Liga 20007/2008 – Real Madrid Vs. Real Zaragoza
Example 7: China Outlook in 2009
Example 8: Stock Market Forecast

The book was published in March 2010 and it is exactly the book I was waited for

The Author did a very good job here because he wasn`t too lazy to write it all in pinyin, in chinese and in english. So this is probably the book all Wen-Wang Gua interested people have been waited for.

Jack Chiu explains all parts of Wen Wang Gua:
- 12 Earthly Branches (shi-er di-zhi 十二地支)
- 10 Heavenly Stems (shi tian-gan 十天干)
- 5 Elements (wu-xing 五行)
- 6 Characters (Jack Chiu calls them 6 Relatives or liu qin 六親. Six because if yourself is included they are 6. Special hint: For all of you who are trying to learn Wen-Wang Gua according to Alex Chiu`s teaching method: http://superiching.com/index.html Alex Chiu is calling them the 5 Stars. I guess just for making the confusion complete after the use of his abbreviations for the 12 earthly branches already drove you completely mad ;-))
- 6 Celestial figures (also known as 6 heavenly creatures or six animals or liu shou 六獸)
- The 8 Chambers (also known as 8 Palaces, 8 Houses or Eight Chambers Theory or ba-gong gua shuo 八宮卦說)
- The Trigrams
- The Hexagrams

Of course he also explains how to adapt it all to the lines and the hexagrams and he explains all the relationships and effects of all forces among each other and so it is actually a book which teaches Wen Wang Gua entirely, because everybody can learn it by reading this book. It is complete. Nothing is missing and the only thing one have to do is to learn, to understand and to practise.

Also the rules are explained in a way everybody is able to understand easily!!!

Apart from that he also gives us a lot of informations about the Yijing 周易 in general, he explains all very detailed and even the ones of you who are dealing with the Yijing since a longer time will probably get some new and/or additional informations from this book.

He also reports about historical persons who were connected with the Yijing and Wen-Wang Gua and you get a lot of detailed historical information concerning the Yijing in addition.

One thing which made me insanely happy was the use of pinyin, chinese and english. He gives us the possibility to do own internet researches by writing most accurately all important terms in pinyin, chinese and english same time.

For making it perfect he gives us a lot of graphics, tables and drawings for to help us understanding all as easy as possible and for having great overviews when it comes to the part of six line analysis.

The only thing which could be more are the examples of the practical use of WWG, because more of them would bring a lot more insights for beginners.

But maybe this is a great idea for a second book about Wen-Wang Gua

If Mr. Jack Chiu will maybe read this here: Many, many, many thanks for writing this book and if I may have a wish, I wish a second book with a lot of practical examples as the next one

Many thanks to Jack Chiu for writing this amazing and very helpful book and special thanks to Harmen Mesker for giving me a lot of helpful informations about Wen-Wang Gua and for helping Mr. Chiu with his book (I have read Harmen helped Jack Chiu with his feedback to the draft of the book). Jack Chiu also mentioned his apprentice Anna Young as his helping hand at the writing process and so I also wish to thank Anna Young as I thank simply everybody who helped to make this book become reality.

Just for to say something critical in the end (because this is a book review;-)): It is to see that Jack Chiu had to hurry up finishing his work because he hadn`t much time for it and so there are a couple of typing errors but I really, really don`t mind, lol. I`m so glad about the existence of this book that I even would pardon him if he would had forget to number the pages.

Enjoy

Thanks, Ivonne:

Some online stuff that might be of interest:

About Evolution of Divination using Hexagrams by Jack Chiu (2007):

http://www.acmc.com.hk/Book006.aspx

Symphony, the old blog of Jack Chiu (2008/2009):

http://jack-chiu.blogspot.com.ar/

Jack Chiu:




Yours,


Charly

The other day I was looking up Wen Wang Gua. Wikipedia links to this site:

http://www.hall-of-man.com/

Tough to do, and I still haven't figured out the year-by-year version. But thinking about the fate it predicts (two hexagrams for earlier in your life and later your in life, with two "complementary hexagrams" which matter more if you are born at a certain time during the day) can teach you a lot about your life right now and what's to come.

Hi Charly,
nice to talk to you Thank you also very much.
Actually I didn`t know the blog of Jack Chiu until now. Great Many thanks.

But the book.............have you checked out the language? ;-) Lol. Okay I actually started to learn chinese in the meantime, because it is really important just for being independent and not being dependent on the good will of someone who maybe translate all this great wisdom somewhen for one, but I am far beyond from being able to read a whole book in chinese at the moment. If I would be able, I would read this first: http://www.acmc.com.hk/Book008.aspx

Because this is about all the rules of Wen Wang Gua and that is most important if one wishes to learn this technique. But your book tipp also sounds very interesting. Unfortunately there is no use to order it now. I will have to wait until my chinese becomes better.

Hi weiwuwei,
thanks for the link but this website is not about Wen Wang Gua but about Heluo Lishu. This is something different. I also made this mistake I even bought a book about Heluo Lishu because I supposed it would be about Wen Wang Gua. But this happy little accident was pretty good because Heluo Lishu is also very interesting and so I simply learn it in addition

With Heluo Lishu you can find out your birth hexagram and the second hexagram is the Hexagram for the second half of your life. That`s all I know until now, because I just started to deal with it.

Wen Wang Gua is divination by connecting the lines of the hexagram with the 12 earthly branches and by watching and analysing the effects of the day, month, year branches onto the lines and the forces of the lines onto each other, in very short and simple words. Of course there has to be added a lot more, but this is the main part of Wen Wang Gua, just for telling you anything in short about it.

For to understand this, you have to deal with the basics of chinese astrology first. You cast a hexagram and then you read it according the rules of Wen Wang Gua and that is completely different from the normal reading of text I Ching (although it can be combined) and it also has nothing to do with Heluo Lishu. For to find out what you need for Wen Wang Gua I have written a lot of search words at my starting post here

With Wen Wang Gua you can find out amazing details and you can make your prediction exactly onto the day something will happen. In other words: You can ask "when" questions and you get a quite clear answer. Apart from that you can find out other very interesting details which is absolutely impossible to find out by divination with text I Ching.

Watch out for posts of Long Yi here at clarity. He makes prediction with Wen Wang Gua technique and he is pretty well in doing that. You can learn a lot from his posts, but only if you also have got the book I talked about here. If you don`t have got the book you understand less than nothing by only watching his readings, apart from that what he tells about the I Ching in general of course.

This is Wen Wang Gua, although Long Yi has developed a kind of an own style, but basically this is Wen Wang Gua:
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=15195

Best wishes Yvonne

@weiwuwei: This thanks button "thing" "sticky" however it calls was for the trial. Please go on looking for information at the internet and post it if you find something. The book of Jack Chiu is great but one can need each additional information one could get about WWG.

I am looking especially for more information about the 6 celestial figures, because Jack Chiu described them only in short. The more people are looking for information and post it, the more progress is possible. Now you know how it calls so just open up a thread about the theme if you find something.

Another thing I look for is a translation of "The gold yarrows" because this is the ancient text about the rules of Wen Wang Gua. I don`t understand why it isn`t translated until now. I hope I don`t have to do it by myself, lol.

Wen Wang Gua

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=15766
As this thread indicates, Yvonne is already reading at a much higher level than she probably realises.She said somewhere that she felt she was only 'scratching at the surface' after discovering Wen Wang Gua.

She might like this recent thread on Wilhelm :
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=16414
I guess Germans have an edge when it comes to Wilhelm.

Heavenly Creatures
not so much practical but good background reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Xing
Scroll down to cosmology and the line heavenly creatures.
And something very poetic from Stephen Karcher :
http://www.ichinglivingchange.org/room-four-pillars/

Here are some na jia charts I put together
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...764.23091.100002497766476&type=1&l=0d161c1063

Actually there are only 5 kinds of line relationships even though they are called 'the 6 relatives'.
If you look at the end of Wilhelm you will see an 8 Palaces chart.
Hex.55 for eg. is in the water palace.
This means that any water line in the hexagram, is a brother, sibling, money killer line.You then use the producing cycle of elements , fire earth metal water wood , and match them up with the producing cycle of line relationships , parent,brother, kid-offspring, wife-gain-money ,officer-ghost.
If water is brother then metal must be parent and so on.Thats the easy part.The interpretation is not so easy.
Or you can look up the readymade hexagram charts at Superiching.
Or use Long YI's software. She has posted the link in Chinese in some threads which can be translated online.

It took a few months but I got used to Alex Chiu's shorthand and I can read his examples without conversion charts.Its worth the trouble. If you can master his 7-800 ? examples you have a good foundation.I took the trouble of indexing his examples by hex. and page number, rough chart style.I might scan them in with the charts sometime.
I have made a start on something similar with Long YI's examples.(I hope she writes some explanatory material about those houses of astrology sometime).

peterg said:

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=15766
As this thread indicates, Yvonne is already reading at a much higher level than she probably realises.She said somewhere that she felt she was only 'scratching at the surface' after discovering Wen Wang Gua.

Click to expand...

At this thread I started to explain the meaning of some symbols and I have to finish this somewhen, lol. Sorry I move at the moment into another flat so I just deal with the most important issues (online) at the moment. But can be that I mentioned this somewhere else. Yes it is true, I actually supposed the I Ching would be endless complex and then I discovered Wen Wang Gua which gives the whole thing the next level deeper. It`s really amazing.

peterg said:

She might like this recent thread on Wilhelm :
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=16414
I guess Germans have an edge when it comes to Wilhelm.

Click to expand...

Yes I do, it shows that translations are hard work and hard to do at all.

peterg said:

Heavenly Creatures
not so much practical but good background reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Xing
Scroll down to cosmology and the line heavenly creatures.
And something very poetic from Stephen Karcher :
http://www.ichinglivingchange.org/room-four-pillars/

Here are some na jia charts I put together
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...764.23091.100002497766476&type=1&l=0d161c1063

Click to expand...

Thanks for the links. Please keep me updated if you find additional material.

peterg said:

Actually there are only 5 kinds of line relationships even though they are called 'the 6 relatives'.
If you look at the end of Wilhelm you will see an 8 Palaces chart.
Hex.55 for eg. is in the water palace.
This means that any water line in the hexagram, is a brother, sibling, money killer line.You then use the producing cycle of elements , fire earth metal water wood , and match them up with the producing cycle of line relationships , parent,brother, kid-offspring, wife-gain-money ,officer-ghost.
If water is brother then metal must be parent and so on.Thats the easy part.The interpretation is not so easy.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your input Right: The setting is not the problem. The Deciphering is
The more you can keep in mind and don`t have to look up, the faster and easier it works. One have to keep a lot in mind and this means: Learning, learning, learning. I steady repeat the whole stuff. After this is done only experiance helps. Just do it, make your faults and having your success. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. Sometimes I find the error sometimes not. That`s why I am a beginner

peterg said:

Or you can look up the readymade hexagram charts at Superiching.

Click to expand...

Yep, Alex C. has done the setting for us. I discovered a new Wen Wang Gua book Yes it`s true, lol. There the setting is also already done. No I don`t tell you the title now, because I will write a book review about it soon and then I can say a lot more about it.

It doesn`t teach Wen Wang Gua but it is based on Wen Wang Gua, uses it symbols and it is very clever, on to the point and very helpful. So I will write a review soon. At this book the setting is also already done. Setting (for the newbies) = The adoption of the 12 earthly branches, the wu xing properties and the 5 relatives to the lines and the Self and Object lines are also already determined and it is done in Chinese

peterg said:

Or use Long YI's software. She has posted the link in Chinese in some threads which can be translated online.

Click to expand...

Which software? Link?

peterg said:

It took a few months but I got used to Alex Chiu's shorthand and I can read his examples without conversion charts.Its worth the trouble. If you can master his 7-800 ? examples you have a good foundation.I took the trouble of indexing his examples by hex. and page number, rough chart style.I might scan them in with the charts sometime.

Click to expand...

In the meantime I actually became as well that I can keep the origin terms and Alex C`s special terms in mind same time Really, that`s true. I can read his examples and have the original terms in mind as I would lay a transparent layer over his terms. It works, but I still find it sucks.

I understand what you (probably) wish to tell me: That there are some advantages too at Alex C`s Homepage and you are right. Maybe I was a bit hard in my judgement but really I was so angry about this confusion he caused with his.....invention *grrrr*. It is so unnecessary. But of course you are right all this examples are a great treasure and should be valuated/appreciated. Also from me And I do, really. I`m just in a huge sorrow about his rules because I have heard he also "invented" own rules and this scares me if I am honesty. I would love to find out which rules exactly he has invented. Do you have an idea?

Concerning his reputation: Okay I guess it should not keep away people from learning Wen Wang Gua with the help of his website, but maybe Alex C. is also reading what it is written about him and maybe he starts thinking about it He has to be a model a guide, if he wishes to be a Teacher, a Master. That`s the point. But maybe the changes also change Alex someday, lol. Hope never dies

peterg said:

I have made a start on something similar with Long YI's examples.(I hope she writes some explanatory material about those houses of astrology sometime).

Click to expand...

Which Long Yi do you mean? I know Long Yi (here at the forum) but he is male. Who do you mean? The same? Haha. Don`t worry I also only know the gender of just a handful of members at Clarity. It seems to be a huge secret for some Peter sounds clear male and Yvonne clear female so we can avoid problems here at least, lol.

Thanks for your input Peter, let us know if there are some news

Best wishes Yvonne

@peterg: I started a thread concerning Wen Wang Gua Rules. Please join if you have got some informations which could help to complete this list:

Wen Wang Gua Rules

Best wishes Yvonne

Do write something more about Pictorial Symbolism sometime in the future but dont worry about it for now and dont burn the candle at both ends.

The new book review sounds interesting.

Many people have trouble with Alex Chiu's shorthand.I got used to it by using a conversion chart based around the months and seasons.

To see how to set up the hexagrams lines Long Yi style try the link at this thread post#9
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=15416
The link is in Chinese so you might have to translate the page online.

My guess was a female Long Yi possibly because of the focus on romance relationships readings.I'm still guessing.
Or is it long dragon yang force ?

I still prefer the text of a cast but I usually check out the basic 6 line analysis and study similar Wen wang gua examples.

@peterg:

peterg said:

Do write something more about Pictorial Symbolism sometime in the future but dont worry about it for now and dont burn the candle at both ends.

Click to expand...

Haha, thanks for the patience I just have to edit 2 posts up from now: Pictoral sybolism and the Wen Wang Gua rules post. This is to handle by time.

peterg said:

The new book review sounds interesting.

Click to expand...

It is great, you all will love it because you don`t need to know something about Wen Wang Gua at all for to use it. It is very simple to use, but gives you way more clear and specific answers than normal text I Ching. This is the end of confusion. It is fantastic especially for beginners in I Ching at all. They finaly wouldn`t need help at their readings anymore

So: The idea to write a book like this was very clever and I still haven`t got any idea how the author did, but I interview him at the moment and so it takes a while until I will be ready for the book review because of course I use the opportunity to interview the author first, before writing a book review. I also wish to work much more with the book before writing something about it. There are different casting methods offered and I wish to try them first.

peterg said:

Many people have trouble with Alex Chiu's shorthand.I got used to it by using a conversion chart based around the months and seasons.

Click to expand...

In my case it also led to the result that I have written own teaching material for myself. At the moment I still try to find out all rules Alex Chiu is talking about by writing them all down and sort them *aaargh* Lol. That is also a reason why my thread with the Wen Wang Gua rules will be long time work in progress, I`m afraid.

I guess I have to add something again and again until this list will be finaly completed. I also guess I send Alex Chiu a copy of it, when it is finished, because he could post the rules overview on his homepage then. This is missing until now, but would be very important for a more easy learning. That`s a reason in addition why I started to write a public rule list. It will help the students of the Alex Chiu method a lot.

peterg said:

To see how to set up the hexagrams lines Long Yi style try the link at this thread post#9
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=15416
The link is in Chinese so you might have to translate the page online.

Click to expand...

Cooooooooool Many thanks. I actually didn`t recognize this link until now. The Chinese is no problem.

peterg said:

My guess was a female Long Yi possibly because of the focus on romance relationships readings.I'm still guessing.
Or is it long dragon yang force ?

Click to expand...

He is male, sure, I know exactly. Yes I know this problem. I also made this mistake concerning the gender of one or another at forums. This is a very common problem and it is sometimes solved by showing the gender at the profile. There are too often names which could mean both female or male. Because we are not very familiar with chinese names Long Yi can simply mean everything.

I often supposed the gender must be sure by watching the acting or the kind of communication of a certain person but this doesn`t work well. There are woman who are acting very Yang like and men who are acting very Yin style. In doubt: Just ask the person. I recommend to ask this per pm. I will try to learn from my mistakes

What do you mean with: Long dragon yang force??? I don`t know this term.

peterg said:

I still prefer the text of a cast but I usually check out the basic 6 line analysis and study similar Wen wang gua examples.

Click to expand...

I do so. At the moment there are 3 ways to get an answer for me:
- Normal text I Ching
- Wen Wang Gua/Six Line Analysis
- And the new book I discovered because this is different from normal text I Ching and Wen Wang Gua how we know it.

In my case it depends on the kind of question. Some questions can be answered best with text I Ching, some can be answered best with Six Line Analysis and some are great for the new I Ching I discovered. But I also prefer text I Ching for the most questions and this shows that the wisdom of the texts will ever be important no matter what other divination methods are possible.

I work since over 20 years with the text of I Ching only and for me this means that I recognize a depth and wisdom which is unique and can`t be exchanged by/through other diviniation techniques. That`s why I called Wen Wang Gua a complement to the text I Ching. It is not an alternative to the text I Ching, but a complement. Apart from that I am most trained in using text I Ching and so this is often first choice. It can happen that I make Six Line Analysis in addition, if I think it is necessary, but often I get the crucial hint already by using normal text I Ching divination.

So: No matter how interesting, fascinating and exciting my Wen Wang Gua discovery is, I will always be in love with the texts, forever. At this forum there are many, many people who are well known about the text I Ching and they do a pretty good job, but there is almost none who is reporting about Wen Wang Gua and so I decided to make it to my special topic, because there are already enough text I Ching experts here on board, but just a very few who know (and talk) about Wen Wang Gua. So: I just try to fill the gap, but this doesn`t mean that I forget the text I Ching or something like that.

Best wishes Yvonne

Long as Chinese for dragon, a yang masculine force or energy as in hexagram 1 ?

@peterg: Thanks for the explanation

forty two said:

...
Part 5: Wen-Wang Gua in Real Life
Example 1: Weather Forecast
Example 2: Medical School Application
Example 3: Accident Claims
Example 4: Divorce and Child Custody
Example 5: Health and Disease
Example 6: La Liga 20007/2008 – Real Madrid Vs. Real Zaragoza
Example 7: China Outlook in 2009
Example 8: Stock Market Forecast
...
Enjoy

Click to expand...

Dear Ivonne:

With my best consideration. Stock Market Forecast !!!

Maybe Jack is better than Standard & Poor´s, but I don´t see any real profit for people in stock market forecast. See how the world goes with all that financial gurus.

Looking the sample I wonder if there is no LOVE in Jack´s agenda!


Yours,


Charly

charly said:

Dear Ivonne:

With my best consideration. Stock Market Forecast !!!

Maybe Jack is better than Standard & Poor´s, but I don´t see any real profit for people in stock market forecast. See how the world goes with all that financial gurus.

Looking the sample I wonder if there is no LOVE in Jack´s agenda!


Yours,


Charly

Click to expand...

Probably a lot of people will mainly learn Wen Wang Gua because of the possibility of stock market forecasts Which doesn`t mean that I am enthusiastic about it. But we have to expect that. So: Wen Wang Gua can be used for spiritual intentions and for earthly intentions, we can`t avoid this. Some think it is the greatest luck on earth to be rich in money and some think it is the greatest luck on earth to be rich in wisdom. The last ones are more seldom

Yes, relationship is missing here at the examples but Alex Chiu offers a lot of examples concerning relationship questions on his website and at his book.

A lot of people who are practise Wen Wang Gua actually use it for stock market forecasts and so it is a usual practice in Wen Wang Gua and therefore Jack Chiu added it to the examples.

I would say that something is possible means not necessarily that one also uses this possibility and everybody is free to decide which questions are really important. There are a lot of questions I could ask now and the very strange thing is: I don`t ask. Lol.

After I recognized the possibilities I discovered that I don`t wish to know the answers. That was strange, but it is also calming anyhow. I am actually not as curious and worried than I supposed, when I started with WWG, lol. So: No I won`t do stock market forecasts with WWG and I also don`t wish to know the day when I will die and a lot of other things I also don`t wish to know.

I recognized that I learn this technique more because I find it fascinating and intresting. The analysis is fun to me, I have got pleasure in being a I Ching detective, but the practical gain of this technique seems to be secondary to me, because I found out: I don`t use it. I don`t use the advantages because often I think: It is not really important to know this or that so exactly how I could find it out now.

I didn`t expect this. I supposed I would have 1000`s of questions and that I will also ask them all, but the reality is.........no, I don`t ask. I ask harmless questions just for to practise the technique at all and don`t stress myself with answers I don`t need to know now. Time will come and the answers too, also without WWG. I find this very intresting. It seems my ability to wait patiently for the answers became even more since I practise WWG. Probably because now my waiting is voluntarily.

But for to calm you: Stock market predictions shall be very hard to do, lol. So this money is probably also hard earned with WWG I guess I wouldn`t worry too much about this. It doesn`t hurt someone if one thinks he/she has to use it for this purpose, it is just a bit superficial and not your or my problem, not really

I find it legitimate to use WWG for getting money if one has real hard financial problems for to solve them, or if someone is really in trouble because he/she is so poor that he/she doesn`t know how to get food for their children and such, but it shouldn`t be used for to enrich oneself in a senseless way. Enough is enough, but some don`t know exactly what enough means.That`s my two Cent

Thanks for the conversation :bows:

Best wishes Yvonne

forty two said:

...

After I recognized the possibilities I discovered that I don`t wish to know the answers. That was strange, but it is also calming anyhow. I am actually not as curious and worried than I supposed, when I started with WWG, lol. So: No I won`t do stock market forecasts with WWG and I also don`t wish to know the day when I will die and a lot of other things I also don`t wish to know.

Click to expand...

Hi, Yvonne:

Scientific stock market forecast is not true scientific prediction but speculative communication in order to get people to accumulate trash and discard gold. I believe is better not to ask about adventures that often end badly.

...
But for to calm you: Stock market predictions shall be very hard to do, lol. So this money is probably also hard earned with WWG I guess I wouldn`t worry too much about this. It doesn`t hurt someone if one thinks he/she has to use it for this purpose, it is just a bit superficial and not your or my problem, not really

Click to expand...

But stock market manipulations hurt so many people that can cause the bankrupcy of whole nations. I believe tha's our problem, indeed.

I find it legitimate to use WWG for getting money if one has real hard financial problems for to solve them, or if someone is really in trouble because he/she is so poor that he/she doesn`t know how to get food for their children and such, but it shouldn`t be used for to enrich oneself in a senseless way. Enough is enough, but some don`t know exactly what enough means.That`s my two Cent
...

Click to expand...

Sometimes happens to me that I don't know how to buy food for my cats and dogs but then any good or bad paper is affordable for me in the stock market. What is the sense of knowing which paper is going to give profitable revenues?

F_ck the IMF!

All the best,


Charly

charly said:

Hi, Yvonne:

Scientific stock market forecast is not true scientific prediction but speculative communication in order to get people to accumulate trash and discard gold. I believe is better not to ask about adventures that often end badly.

Click to expand...

Signed

charly said:

But stock market manipulations hurt so many people that can cause the bankrupcy of whole nations. I believe tha's our problem, indeed.

Click to expand...

Yes, but what do you wish to do against? As long as there are humans there will be greedy ones which can`t get enough and which hurt people. It is not the fault of Wen Wang Gua. What I wish to say is: The object of consideration is always innocent. It becomes good or bad depending on how it is used by humans. Wen Wang Gua is not bad just because it is possible to use it for bad reasons. That was what I wished to say.

Of course greed, corruption and abuse of power and their consequences are a problem of us all, but that`s a problem which never can be solved because you cannot make all people on this planet to holy enlightened ones. There always will be ones who are destructive and this is a part of nature itself. As already said at Hexagram 43.: "Even if only one inferior man is occupying a ruling position in a city, he is able to oppress superior men." At Hexagram 43. you push the evil out at the top and at Hexagram 44. it comes back again from the bottom.

You never can eliminate the evil entirely, because it is part of the nature. You just can push it back or control it for a while but not forever. It is like you would wish the moon don`t shine anymore because you rather like the sun. Where the good is, there will be the evil too. Where light is, there will be darkness too. This are the laws. I didn`t make them. This are the facts, the frame of reality into which borders we can act and the I Ching tells us how to act and how to deal with all appearances of nature. The I Ching doesn`t teach how to change the world, but it teaches how to accept and to handle, how to deal with it.

What I wished to say with: "That is not our problem" was: Everybody has to start at oneself. Everybody can only change oneself. It is not possible to change others. Believe me, I tried my whole life without success. So if people are greedy concerning money it is basically their problem, they have to solve it by themselve. You cannot change them. I cannot change them. This was the sense of my words.

But of course it is the right thing to criticise such behavior. Again hexagram 43.: "One must resolutely make the matter known at the court of the king. It must be announced truthfully." It is also good to make the trial to push the evil out (Hexagram 43.), because that is the nature of the good ones

So: Thanks for your opinion Charly, I agree but please don`t accuse Wen Wang Gua for all the bad in the world because Wen Wang Gua itself is innocent.

charly said:

Sometimes happens to me that I don't know how to buy food for my cats and dogs but then any good or bad paper is affordable for me in the stock market. What is the sense of knowing which paper is going to give profitable revenues?

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I didn`t say that poor people could use Wen Wang Gua for getting money by stock market prediciton. It is possible to get money by using WWG if you bet on something. Sport events for example. There you can make money with a very little stake for example.

You also could ask: When will be the best day for entering a lottery?

For example.

If I consider about, maybe I will have got ideas in addition how to get money with the help of Wen Wang Gua with a very little stake. This are the possibilities for poor people to improve their situation with Wen Wang Gua for example.

Best wishes Yvonne

Dear Yvonne:

I don't accuse the WWG for its use in stock market prediction.The same, I don't accuse the Changes for advicing the japanese army during WW2. A tool is a tool and the responsibility for its use belongs to the user.

Only that the use speaks about the quality of the user. Thanks God there is a great diversity under the sky.

(to be continued)

Thanks very much.

Yours,

Charly

charly said:

Dear Yvonne:

I don't accuse the Changes for advicing the japanese army during WW2.

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Wasn't Qi Men Dun Jia the method used by the Japanese military during WWII?

pocossin said:

Wasn't Qi Men Dun Jia the method used by the Japanese military during WWII?

Click to expand...

Hi, Tom:

What do you know about it?

Yours,

Charly

charly said:

Hi, Tom:

What do you know about it?

Yours,

Charly

Click to expand...

Hi Charly. Years ago I asked someone about the Japanese use of divination in WWII, and I was told that it was probably Qi Men Dun Jia, which supposedly has a history of being used by the military. I think it is likely that the Japanese did use divination just as they used negative feng shui in their subordination of conquered territories.

@Charly:Thanks This is good to hear/read.

@Pocossin: Interesting information. I got to know more chinese prediction arts during the last weeks than in my whole life. This Qi Men Dun Jia is also completely new to me. Thanks for the information

Heavenly Creatures
http://www.fengshuigate.com/bagua.html
http://www.fengshuigate.com/overview.html
Here are a couple of scholarly essays by Professor Stephen Field.
The first one, under hexagram 1, discusses cang long,the Cerulean Dragon. Cerulean is latin for dark blue.Same as azure (blue) dragon, qing long. Aka green dragon.
QUOTE:
''Line 3 is the only line text of hexagram 1 that appears not to describe the seasonal migration of the Cerulean Dragon across the southern sky. But in fact the Confucian "gentleman" (deleted here) has crept into the text from the commentary tradition (by which time the astronomical significance of the dragon had been forgotten), and this line does indeed describe the dragon. The character qian is composed of "dawn" and "emerge" and originally meant "to ascend." All day long the dragon has been rising in the heavens, but at dusk when it is finally visible, it still is hindered from full flight. The rising dragon in the southeastern sky was the harbinger of spring, and full flight in the south was the height of summer. The "rising" of the dragon was what concerned the ancient diviners--the growth of yang energy to full strength. Eventually, to both the trigram and the hexagram of total yang, they appended the name, "rising in the heavens," and by extension, Heaven '' ( end quote )
This might help to explain the peculiar location of heaven in the southeast on the front cover of Jou Tsung Hwa's ''Tao of I Ching''
The second essay includes a discussion of the four celestial deities, dragon, bird, tiger, turtle.

Wikipedias Qi Men Dun Jia has lots of links to further reading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi_Men_Dun_Jia

A story in ''Wild Swans'' describes how Mao Zedong would invite party officials to submit criticisms of the party and those who did would have hell to pay because it was just a ruse to 'flush out snakes in the grass'. Sounds like one of the 36 strategies.
http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=36ji&no=0

Long Yi has a website here
https://sites.google.com/site/longyiiching/system/app/pages/sitemap/hierarchy

@Peterg:

peterg said:

Heavenly Creatures
http://www.fengshuigate.com/bagua.html
http://www.fengshuigate.com/overview.html
Here are a couple of scholarly essays by Professor Stephen Field.
The first one, under hexagram 1, discusses cang long,the Cerulean Dragon. Cerulean is latin for dark blue.Same as azure (blue) dragon, qing long. Aka green dragon.
QUOTE:
''Line 3 is the only line text of hexagram 1 that appears not to describe the seasonal migration of the Cerulean Dragon across the southern sky. But in fact the Confucian "gentleman" (deleted here) has crept into the text from the commentary tradition (by which time the astronomical significance of the dragon had been forgotten), and this line does indeed describe the dragon. The character qian is composed of "dawn" and "emerge" and originally meant "to ascend." All day long the dragon has been rising in the heavens, but at dusk when it is finally visible, it still is hindered from full flight. The rising dragon in the southeastern sky was the harbinger of spring, and full flight in the south was the height of summer. The "rising" of the dragon was what concerned the ancient diviners--the growth of yang energy to full strength. Eventually, to both the trigram and the hexagram of total yang, they appended the name, "rising in the heavens," and by extension, Heaven '' ( end quote )
This might help to explain the peculiar location of heaven in the southeast on the front cover of Jou Tsung Hwa's ''Tao of I Ching''
The second essay includes a discussion of the four celestial deities, dragon, bird, tiger, turtle.

Wikipedias Qi Men Dun Jia has lots of links to further reading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi_Men_Dun_Jia

A story in ''Wild Swans'' describes how Mao Zedong would invite party officials to submit criticisms of the party and those who did would have hell to pay because it was just a ruse to 'flush out snakes in the grass'. Sounds like one of the 36 strategies.
http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=36ji&no=0

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Many, thanks for this huge input. I haven`t got the time at the moment for to read it all, but it will be bookmarked and will be read soon.

peterg said:

Long Yi has a website here
https://sites.google.com/site/longyiiching/system/app/pages/sitemap/hierarchy

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Coooooooooool Great. I checked it out already. I hope he will add more content from time to time, especially about the rules!!!

@Long Yi: Thanks

I`m short today because the move is keeping me busy, sorry. But many thanks for the infos, keep it up

Best wishes Yvonne

Star Chart

Purple Forbidden Enclosure star chart with Chinese characters in simplified script :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ZǐWēiYuán.png
In the centre is Curved Array, one of the six celestial figures of WWG, and associated with the yellow centre.This is a six star asterism with Polaris, the pole star, as its brightest star.
In the Western world, Polaris sits on the end of the handle of the Little Dipper :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Polaris_alpha_ursae_minoris.jpg

On the left side in the Chinese chart is the seven star asterism Bei Dou, the Northern Ladle, known in the West as the Big Dipper or plough.Its first two stars serve as a pointer towards north and Polaris.
This is the same Dou that occurs in 55.2.4 and for more on that see the big dipper in the index of Marshalls Mandate of Heaven.While youre there check out the Azure Dragon constellation which is also one of the six celestial figures.
Source link showing the Four Symbols and three enclosures :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Symbols_(Chinese_constellation)
An interesting external link on Wikipedias Polaris page about finding the pole star :
http://www.phy6.org/stargaze/Spolaris.htm

Hi Peterg.
thanks again for the informations and sorry for the late respons. I have got a pretty well excuse
I moved into another flat and you posted while I was totally in stress, but now it is done (fortunately).

Because we have collected so many intresting links here at this thread I think about to open up a single thread with a link list. What do you think?

In the meantime I have found another WWG site, but I have to check it out first for to decide if it is recommendable.

6 Celestial figures:
The problem is not to find information about the four celestial figures. The problem is to find information about the six celestial figures.

The four celestial figures are also part of Feng Shui and so you can find information about them on each Feng Shui site. But what`s about the other two?

The Flying Serpent and Curved Array??? This is needed badly

It is important to know what they mean in context with Wen Wang Gua.

Jack Chiu has written at least a little bit about them and fortunately he gave me his permission to use his quotes from the book for bringing Wen Wang Gua closer to the people and so I could add this soon to the Wen Wang Gua rules thread. I`m already working on update 3 of the Wen Wang Gua rules thread and will probably post it soon.

I had no chance to test the new forum software here until now, but this auto save function is cool, lol.
I like it very much. And? How does the new software work? Everything allright or have I to fear something now?

Best wishes Yvonne

Hi again Yvonne.
I moved house a few years ago so I know what you mean.It was a great move though.It was prognosticated by Karchers ''Total I Ching'' eg. 12.5 : ''A quiet rural (well into the suburbs) retreat. Thats the place for you.'' People often remark how quiet and nice. I said somewhere else I totally lost interest in Karchers very poetic TIC. Not true.I just forgot how spot on he can be.There were other interesting lines too eg. 53.6 wild swans migrate to the highlands or high ground which was literal.

A separate thread for the links ? Sounds like hard work. I dont have any trouble finding the links in a thread.They stand out.And theyre in context.If there are lots of links it might be a useful exercise though.

There isn't much written in English on The Flying Serpent and the Curved Array.They are on my agenda so if I find anything I will pass it on.
There is a lot more literature on the other four so I focused on them for the time being. Wikipedias Four Symbols and 28 constellations has many links to further reading and a lot of them are interesting.
The 4 S AND 28 C were agricultural and seasonal markers from ancient times and tied to divination.

Because they lie close to the ecliptic, the apparent path of the sun moon and planets across the sky, and close to the constellations of the western zodiac, it is possible to see all the Chinese constellations in the night sky.Wikipedia has the Chinese star charts in the links for the 4 Symbols so all you need is some basic astronomy and a Philip's Planisphere is very useful.It shows the night sky for every hour, day and month of the year (see at Amazon).Or get a monthly star chart from the local library.The daily Telegraph online at news > science > night sky also now includes a colourful monthly star chart.

Not exactly practical divination but a good reason to learn some basic astronomy.
In February before I started thinking astronomy I got 26.2.6 - 22 as an Onlineclarity online reading : line 6 where is heavens highway and 26-22 power and beauty.You need 'highways' to find your way around the night sky and as you look up are sometimes struck by the majesty of it.
In April I got 1.5 - 14 as a Yellowbridge I Ching online reading : flying dragon located in the sky changing to fire in the sky.

The new forum software is good. I like the autosave, new search features, members profile features, but I miss the who posted button for threads and it seems to be harder to find old posts or All posts for particular members.

Thats it.

Hi Peterg,
sorry again for the delay, but I`m still pretty busy with the work after the move *aaaargh*. It has no end, lol. But up from next weekend there will be relaxation for me too

peterg said:

Hi again Yvonne.
I moved house a few years ago so I know what you mean.It was a great move though.It was prognosticated by Karchers ''Total I Ching'' eg. 12.5 : ''A quiet rural (well into the suburbs) retreat. Thats the place for you.'' People often remark how quiet and nice. I said somewhere else I totally lost interest in Karchers very poetic TIC. Not true.I just forgot how spot on he can be.There were other interesting lines too eg. 53.6 wild swans migrate to the highlands or high ground which was literal.

Click to expand...

I actually have read Stephen Karcher`s I Ching right now, it is amazing. I love it. I started to deal with the original words of the I Ching and so I try to translate parts of it by myself and also looked for different translations beside the Richard Wilhelm translation as the one by Stephen Karcher and the one by Bradford Hatcher for example. Both are great and I really can recommend to deal with other translations too, apart from the Wilhelm Richard translation. In fact there are lines which could be discussed. Would love to talk about the one or another line here, but first there are thousand other things to do.

peterg said:

A separate thread for the links ? Sounds like hard work. I dont have any trouble finding the links in a thread.They stand out.And theyre in context.If there are lots of links it might be a useful exercise though.

Click to expand...

I just wanted to post the most important links, all Wen Wang Gua sites and books that we have found for example. So for the moment this would be 5 links or so, lol. Not much work ;-) But I wait until there will be a couple more I guess.

peterg said:

There isn't much written in English on The Flying Serpent and the Curved Array.

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I know *cry*.

peterg said:

They are on my agenda so if I find anything I will pass it on.

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Cool, thanks

peterg said:

There is a lot more literature on the other four so I focused on them for the time being. Wikipedias Four Symbols and 28 constellations has many links to further reading and a lot of them are interesting.
The 4 S AND 28 C were agricultural and seasonal markers from ancient times and tied to divination.

Because they lie close to the ecliptic, the apparent path of the sun moon and planets across the sky, and close to the constellations of the western zodiac, it is possible to see all the Chinese constellations in the night sky.Wikipedia has the Chinese star charts in the links for the 4 Symbols so all you need is some basic astronomy and a Philip's Planisphere is very useful.It shows the night sky for every hour, day and month of the year (see at Amazon).Or get a monthly star chart from the local library.The daily Telegraph online at news > science > night sky also now includes a colourful monthly star chart.

Not exactly practical divination but a good reason to learn some basic astronomy.
In February before I started thinking astronomy I got 26.2.6 - 22 as an Onlineclarity online reading : line 6 where is heavens highway and 26-22 power and beauty.You need 'highways' to find your way around the night sky and as you look up are sometimes struck by the majesty of it.
In April I got 1.5 - 14 as a Yellowbridge I Ching online reading : flying dragon located in the sky changing to fire in the sky.

Click to expand...

Years ago I also dealt with astronomy and I still find space more than interesting, but at the moment there are too many other things to do for to deal with it again. Let us know if you discover something intresting.

peterg said:

The new forum software is good. I like the autosave, new search features, members profile features, but I miss the who posted button for threads and it seems to be harder to find old posts or All posts for particular members.

Thats it.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the information, I will check out the new software more intensely soon.

Best wishes Yvonne

Tengshe

Actually I did find something on Tengshe.Its a really excellent wikipedia article :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teng_(mythology)
Tengshe is closely linked with Xuanwu the Black Tortoise :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Tortoise
The Black Tortoise is usually depicted as both a tortoise and a snake coiling around the tortoise.
To see a picture of them together go to this link from the Black Tortoise page under References :
http://idp.bl.uk/4DCGI/education/astronomy/sky.html

This latter is one of those many interesting links on the wikipedia pages that I referred to in a previous post.
It has some great images and in the section Sun and Moon has a reference which might throw some light on the text of Hexagram 19 :
''The sun and moon have always had a special significance in Chinese folklore and various symbolism and myths surround them. The mid-Autumn, or Moon Festival is perhaps the second most important traditional festival in China after Chinese New Year. It is held on the fifteenth day of the eighth lunar month when the moon is said to be at its largest, roundest, and brightest of the year. The shape of the moon is said to represent completeness and perfection and its celebration is an important family occasion each year. Special round cakes, called moon cakes, are made to eat during the festival.''

The Tengshe article is highly recommended and has many points of general interest eg.
Tengshe, flying snake, is also called a flying dragon snake.Its the same teng as in longtenghuyue, dragon rising tiger leaping, a scene of bustling activity.And tengjiaoqifeng, rising dragon soaring phoenix,a rising literary-artistic talent.
Its also called a rising ascending soaring snake or serpent or even flying dragon.
It has several meanings :
Its an asterism of 22 stars in the Chinese constellation shi, encampment or room or house, the 6th of the 7 constellations (13th of the 28) in the in the Black Tortoise macro- constellation. Shi lies in the western constellation Pegasus (beside Pisces and Aquarius), the winged stallion or flying horse.
Curiously, a poetry reference on page 4 of the Tengshe article parallels tengshe with feifu, flying horse.

These charts show the Black tortoise constellations :
http://www2.gol.com/users/stever/winter.htm

Tengshe is also a 'battle formation' and in Chinese physiognomy ' vertical lines rising from the corners of the mouth'.

Curved Array is also an asterism which includes the fixed star Polaris and is associated with the yellow centre and the Emperor.The centre is the fifth direction and is associated with Huang Long the Yellow Dragon.( see wikipedia 4symbols page).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huang_Long_(Four_Symbols)

Harmen Mesker's paper on the 8 palaces (which could possibly do with an update) wouldnt be out of place in this thread:
www.biroco.com/yijing/eh.pdf
On page 10 there is a chart of the shi self, and ying event hexagram lines.Reading across the columns the self lines are 61234543.
On p13 is a chart showing how the stems branches and phases are assigned to trigrams and hexagrams.
A rule of thumb for remembering how the stems are assigned to trigrams :
The producing cycle of elements is fire earth metal water wood.
Fire earth metal are assigned to youngest middle eldest trigrams in upper and lower positions.Even numbered stems to female trigrams and odd numbered stems to male trigrams.
Father and mother or heaven and earth trigrams are assigned water stem in upper position and wood stem below.

Same for Harmens review of three books on na jia by Wang Yang (authentic i ching),Raymond Lo (divination for feng shui and destiny) and Alex Chiu ( superiching) :
http://www.biroco.com/yijing/najia.htm

A couple of posts back I got my 'astronomy casts' mixed up.
26.2- 22 was the previous year.The one I had in mind was 26.2.6 - 36.( yarrow january). 36 might be interesting in the context of night sky.
1.5 is a money out line reading na jia style.Shortly afterwards I did spend some money on printing astronomy stuff.
So Bradfords volume 2, the character by character transliteration, which I had been thinking of getting, had to be put on hold.I like Karcher too.

Hi Peter,
that`s just great!!! Many, many thanks God job. It`s a great relief to see that others also care about to collect some important informations *happy*.

I`m pretty sure that I already posted the Links to Harmen`s articles somewhere, but it is no mistake to post them more often. I think about to open up another thread for all our informations, because this one here............will be endless if we go on this way *lol*.

Apropos endless: I`m in a huge worry about my Wen Wang Gua rules thread because this will be really endless by time. Could you find out (maybe) if the new software allows writing Tutorials and such??? I haven`t got the time at the moment for to check out all such things (I`m at work on nightshift at the moment). At some forums this is possible. One can post a very extensive article as a tutorial and there is no signs limit for example. One could write pages, you know? Page 1, page 2, page 3 and so on. I would need something like this for the Wen Wang Gua rules thread.

All this great information here from you will be added to the WWG rules thread. I think also the most important links could be added to the rules thread. My plan is to create something which makes analysing of hexagrams more easy and more faster. All very important information on one glance, you know?

I hate it to look up all this rules again and again, because I always have to search them and that is very time consuming.

I will add here what Jack Chiu has written about the Flying Serpent and the Curved Array, because it is not much. I can do this fastly *lol*. I will also add it to the rules thread but later.

Jack Chiu (literally):

Curved Array relates to land especially farm land (which also means wealth), but also relates to entanglement. If combined with Officer, it refers to entangling dispute in lawsuit, or boyfriend (or lover other than lawful husband) who also implies rival in marriage or relationship, or existing customers in business. If combined with Asset, it refers to girlfriend (or lover other than lawful wife) who also implies rival in a marriage or relationship. If combined with Parent, it refers to entanglement in documents or dystocia in giving birth or labouring.

Flying Serpent relates to weird and illusion, weird dreams, or something meant to be. If combined with Officer, it refers to imprisonment in lawsuit, or long illness or bedridden in health and disease, or new customers in business.

(Quote end)

That`s all. Not much, but better than nothing

Peter would you find the time for to start an explanation Thread about Wen Wang Gua? I`m so damned busy already with this rules thread........at the moment I don`t know when to do this WWG explanation thread.

But it would be important. We are talking much about WWG and almost nobody know what exactly it is. A post which explains a little bit at least what it is would be very helpful for all the others for to follow the topic, you know?

If you also don`t have got the time I will try to make it soon, but if you have got the time I could relax a bit

Best wishes Yvonne