In practical divination, ie understanding what this answer means for you in regard to your question about your husband/job/house search/ health etc etc, it seems to me hexagram 13 unchanging can be a particularly enigmatic answer.

'Yes, yes, yes' I'd think to myself 'I get the idea' of what hexagram 13 is about but how does it possibly apply to my question which doesn't concern community or groups ...at all. When there are changing lines with hex 13 it's easier to get a handle on the application of the answer...but 13 unchanging can leave me looking for a branch to hang my understanding on.

Hmm branches....well they all come off the same tree so they maybe thats a meaningful metaphor for me

For my own experience of 13uc I recall I had received it over a period of time where I'd been disconcerted, upset or confused on some occasion with different people in social occasions...I think one was a family member, one was a teacher, another a friend...all seperate occasions, where something odd had happened between us that I couldn't quite fathom, where I'd felt something had gone very wrong that I didn't understand, that I thought would affect the future of the relationship. They weren't especially deep relationships...just everyday ones.....

nevertheless I had felt great chasms had opened between us and could not fathom what had happened. It was quite intensely felt so I expected each time to get an answer that reflected these chasms. Hmmm I got 13 uc on each occasion.

In actual fact as it turned out there were no chasms. I think with each person when I next saw them I was greeted with a smile and an embrace ! ......as if nothing had ever happened or if it had it hadn't really.


With hindsight I think perhaps this answer was about what I expected to share or not to share. I think the original puzzlement/sense of chasm was that they had said or done something very alien to the person I thought they were.

Overall however in the end it just didn't matter very much. I have the sense of 13 uc as background environment....like at school you are in a class full of kids but you don't expect to bond deeply with all of them and it doesn't matter if you don't. As humans humanity is our background envoronment.. ...maybe its just growing in the same soil but being different and being different can't expect not to be baffled now and then. I think in some hard to pin down way those experiences also made me aware that connections can be quite loose and still connect...I had the sense of 13uc referring to the slackening off of the intensity of one to one bonds to more casual common bonds.


Having said all that I certainly wouldn't say I have a clear idea of the way 13 uc applies at all...only that experience stands out to me. My experience on that occasion did involve people and community but what about when you get 13 uc for things not related to that ? And of course 13 doesn't just have to apply to people at all does it......or does it ?


Well humanity looks pretty central....from Bradford in an old 13 thread

Here's some stuff on the Hexagram name:
The word Ren in Tong Ren just means person, human being, another, of both sexes.
Tong has a range of meanings, but fellowship is best. It usually implies convergence around something in common or a point of consensus. It isn't especially associated with feelings like brotherly love, but that can be there

Click to expand...

Anyone have any 13 unchanging experiences to share ?

Digging through the journal, I have one 13 unchanging. I was going to play the 'Transformation Game' with friends - a sort of cross between divination and a board game. Not the kind of experience I usually have!

Question: Advice for living this to the full? (giving and receiving as much as I can?)
Answer: 13 unchanging

There's a nice obvious 13 for you. We sat round the table together and created harmony, and then shared a meal. Loved it.

Why was it unchanging? Maybe because the idea was that I was going into another kind of divination/message-receiving experience and I just needed 13 as a canvas/ backdrop to make that possible.

(As for when there are no other people around and things are less obvious - 13 in general can be about getting aspects of self to sit down together and communicate.)

hilary said:

(As for when there are no other people around and things are less obvious - 13 in general can be about getting aspects of self to sit down together and communicate.)

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I like your image a lot, but associate it with h8, which I paraphrase as "keep it together". (keep yourselves together)

By now you must be bored with my desert island theory of 13 , but for those who wonder, what would 13 mean if you were shipwrecked on a desert island?

Mine is to see myself in fellowship with all that is on this hypothetical island. There may be no other human there to 13 with, but there is life; there is a sky and the earth, hopefully sweet water and fire, and all that is needed to sustain life, and assist life in return. We all have our being in common.

I just received this hex today in re: to a teacher for my herbalist studies.
I am finding that I need to ask the I Ching yes or no questions at this point to really get a grip on what I am being told.
I asked, "Should I focus my herbal studying with KR?"
This teacher lives to far away from me for me to learn from her directly so this is more or less me reading things she has written as well as e-mail questions etc. I am pretty analytical in how I think about things and I am very grounded in reality. At times I would like to be a bit more woowoo but that is not me.
Here is what I am seeing- this persons style of teaching/writing brings all aspects of me together. She also connects my thinking to the earth/sky (i.e. desert island). We have a common point of interest but I probably won't be connecting with her on a more intimate/brotherly level.
I am taking this as a yes.

For my own experience of 13uc I recall I had received it over a period of time where I'd been disconcerted, upset or confused on some occasion with different people in social occasions...I think one was a family member, one was a teacher, another a friend...all seperate occasions, where something odd had happened between us that I couldn't quite fathom, where I'd felt something had gone very wrong that I didn't understand, that I thought would affect the future of the relationship. They weren't especially deep relationships...just everyday ones.....

nevertheless I had felt great chasms had opened between us and could not fathom what had happened. It was quite intensely felt so I expected each time to get an answer that reflected these chasms. Hmmm I got 13 uc on each occasion.
Just received the same answer for asking how shall I look upon my my past with someone I find very similar to me but quite insane haha....IC is very kind to that person, IMO..
Thanks for the post trojan

I just had a lightbulb moment with 13uc (albeit with help from the yi) - looking back through my journal I couldn't see a clear meaning for several instances of 13uc. I'd had it twice in relation to a job application that I didn't ultimately get (twice with the same company), once in relation to a project I was thinking about starting, once when wondering whether I should consult a particular psychic (she was excellent, it turned out), and today about whether or not to contact a colleague that I fancy to ask if he's going to the works christmas party!

Since I couldn't figure out whether 13uc was a positive or negative omen since I'd received it when the outcome had been both (I know that's simplistic but heck) I then asked, how should I understand 13uc in the context of the job I didn't get? Yi said: 41.2 > 27. I take this to mean that in my interaction with others, whatever the context, there must be an even exchange - that I mustn't act shamefully and diminish myself in the interaction, but that both parties should be increased (nourished) by it. This applies to all my 13uc experiences, even including the psychic. I was deciding which psychic to consult, and one was represented to me as a 25.3 situation - in other words, my metaphorical cow would be stolen! So had I spoken to the first psychic, I would have handed over my wealth (cow) and got nothing of worth back. However, when I spoke to the second psychic, I received an excellent and useful reading in exchange for my money. She was increased and so was I.

So on balance, 13uc in my experience seems to denote, or recommend, an even exchange with neither party decreased and nobody losing their cow.

So would you say 13 was asking you to distinguish between groups of people as it says in the Image ?

The opposite or complementary hexagram to 13 is 7.

The complement might be seen as 'what not to do' or well the other necessary side of the coin.

I think the reason 13uc experiences are sparse is because it isn't easy for people to interpret them in their readings. I think it is a hard one to understand in the context of our readings. People can go on about what 13 means in itself, abstractly, but when you get it in response to particular questions that are not to do with community...well you can be stumped.

Lately I find it's meant that whatever I am asking about is decided not solely by me (which it might be in 7 in a personal project) but by others around me. Simple example that I think has happened. Supposing I was stuck for some reason with a thread here, didn't know what to do or say, well 13 has often shown the rest of the people carry it also or the rest of the people move it along in another direction.

I'm a bit wary of using readings to ascertain what other readings mean although I think I can follow your reasoning here. Maybe discerning different types of people is along the same continuum in a way as being carried along by other people. Your 13 experiences seem to mean you need to discern.

First day at school is meeting 13. Part of the collective, being carried by it but also when doing our own work (7) needing to focus within that. It reminds me of the big art friezes we used to have to do on the walls at schools as a child. Sometimes if I was stuck with my daffodil or whatever I'd allow the collective to carry me but of course allowing the collective to carry you can also have negative consequences. For example you can lose sight of your own will and purpose (7)

That's a bit of a ramble may not all make sense

Yes, reading back through my post it doesn't quite make as much sense as I thought it did while writing.

I suppose it is about discernment, and about how I relate to other people - perhaps about whether it's on their terms or mine? Which is what you suggest with your daffodil and the collective...

The other instance of 13uc was when i asked if I should start work on a writing project. Because I'm still immersed in it I can't quite get a clear picture of what 13uc is telling me, but perhaps something to do with the fact that at some level this piece of writing has to connect with others, and not just be for my benefit. But, it also can't be something that I do with the sole intention of pleasing others - it has to have its own sense of purpose and truth (7?).

Not sure if that made sense either...!!

I suppose it is about discernment, and about how I relate to other people - perhaps about whether it's on their terms or mine? Which is what you suggest with your daffodil and the collective...

Click to expand...

Yes I also think it refers to something quite hard to define, maybe something we lost the word for ? I've certainly had the lines, line 4 for example for the question of who's terms. I think we may have lost the word for what I'm thinking of because, as a species, we are less aware now that we are in fact just a species. Like dogs, horses, any other species we have traits that are only due to our species, not individual. Huge restless curiosity for example,, shared with our primate cousins. I wonder with your book writing example if it's being suggested you consider that, that the very act of what you intend is a product of our species and for our species. Hmm to be honest I feel it more likelyYi was pointing out that writing is solitary and you need people around you and you need people to stimulate the writing, which is why many writers go and work in cafes maybe. Or it could be that the demands of your friends and your community over ride book project now ? Not sure

"Or it could be that the demands of your friends and your community over ride book project now ? Not sure"

The writing project is semi-academic writing that I 'have' to do for work and for my own personal pleasure (it is a passion) and I consider it my life's work, the most important thing! I've had 13.2 in relation to it which I took to mean that I shouldn't force it into an overly academic mould to suit the temple/institution (that might not make sense out of context but it fits with other readings too) - but it might have been at that time that other things (colleagues, community) were going to take precedence. At some level it will need to interact with the wider community, whether that's the academic community or (hopefully) wider. But you're right, sometimes working in a cafe does help and it can be easy to become bogged down in minutiae rather than the joy of communicating with people. Interesting that you mention us as a species since the writing is about humans as a species, our beliefs and behaviours, and what makes us human... although actually having mentioned 13.2 which somewhat evokes incestuous over-familiarity, the writing itself (which relates to Freud) touches on that also!

I was worried about my flight because of the storm Barbara. So I asked yi: what is going to be with my flight? -hexagram 13 "It furthers one to cross the great water."

So there was no problem with my flight. I reached my destination.

At the risk of swamping this thread... more time has passed allowing light to shine on the previous readings. All the 13uc readings I have had related to a situation where I couldn't penetrate, as if it was a clique, where everything was already too similar - so the other people in the situation would not hire me because they were looking for people more similar to them. In December I had 13uc twice, once about a job situation, and once about a psychic reading that referred to the job situation. At the time I chose (!) to interpret the 13uc positively, especially since the psychic reading was positive and seemed very accurate at the time. However, I later found out that I didn't get the job and the overall situation at my work was not at all as positive as I'd imagined, or as positive as the psychic had described; I later realised I was viewed as being 'outside' the clique, and not a serious contender. The psychic failed to penetrate the work situation accurately (although she told me what I wanted to hear!) but the 13uc also described the work situation itself.

I've also had it in relation to writing projects I've been working on, and again refers to an inability (temporary or otherwise) to penetrate the situation with sufficient clarity or creative energy. There's a sort of stagnation or myopia implied that precludes the injection of any new and differentiating energy.

A recent 13uc experience is similar to veavea's:
Will I get so-and-so fellowship/residency?
13uc seemed too perfect an answer so I was wary of the outcome. I didn't get in, no rejection letter as of yet, only the official announcement of new fellows on the website. I suppose the fellowship had already been decided at the time of my reading.

Right in the middle of the night, I am sitting at my desk. Suddenly, an earthquake.
What was that? 13 unchanging
God differentiates among good and bad people? or after a catastrophe people join in creating sth together?

What about M2 as housemate? 13 unchanging
That has proved as the worst choice ever. Me and him, just two worlds apart.

13uc smacks of a meme that was popular with the kids in 2019:



The line originated from George Costanza in Seinfeld (one of my favorites from the show), but he's photoshopped like Joker here since a lot of people made Joker 'society' memes. I think it points to how mundane fringe people can really be. The characters of Seinfeld were simultaneously extremely mundane and also borderline sociopaths (because of how apathetic they were to 'society'), hence the final episode. (sorry for using two adverbs in a row.)

Some of the memes literally just say 'society'. Which to me encompass the vagueness of receiving 13uc. Many people casted 13uc when the coronavirus pandemic started- and it's clear that the trajectory of the pandemic largely depended on the behaviors of the society as a whole.

In other words,

Q: How will the pandemic unfold?

A: Society

Viru10 said:

it's clear that the trajectory of the pandemic largely depended on the behaviors of the society as a whole.

Click to expand...

society is an abstract construct, that we use to take individual responsibility (as well as freedom) away from ourselves. you cannot touch society or hurt society, but you can touch and hurt individual human beings. so actually, the trajectory of any events in the world and of "society" itself depends on individual actions and behaviours.

anyway, 13 generally meant to me non-intimate relations. sometimes indicated a need to go out and meet people, outside. without intimacy or closeness.

during the pandemic i asked about finalizing property sale and got 13 uc as an answer. the line "dislike is not a problem, as there is wide space" (or something like that from Berkers translation) was especially true, as i didn't have my own notary and went with the buyers - everything went well, with extra big room and huge table in their office and indeed the fact we didn't like each other caused no trouble (i was the only woman there with few other guys around and the fact they had to treat me seriously seemed to cause them some effort). pretty much every line could apply, including Wilhelms "after great struggles they succeed in meeting". but overall it was a success. and the perseverance of the superior man (who's an individual) furthers...

*what was the essence of my dissociation today at the subway on my way to therapy?*
hex13uc-
I was experiencing the dialectical feeling of (now in parts quoting Trojina's comment) I possess and I am (hex14) vs We are, being a backdrop, mingling with the crowds, the scenery from which I emerge (the metro stations were crowded) - a reading which led me to an insight about a question that emerged when I arrived at therapy and my therapist was absent without warning me. I had spent time and money to go there.
Should I quit therapy? No, this is a way of being part of a collective (it's not a private office there, the sessions take place on a square). The dissociation had kind of prepared me for the meaningfulness of that unusual experience that almost really upset me.
**
(In fact, I ended up at this thread because I wanted to understand why Hilary says in her book that Hex 14 means crowds when comparing it to hex 13.)