Does mother really know best?

annietyme · Apr 9, 2002

Hey Hilary and Friends~

My mom recently met a man of 23 yrs on a plane trip that just moved into our area from across the U.S. He knows no one, other than his roommates, and from what my mom has told him, is very interested in meeting me... She has given me his number to call and be his "tour-guide".
She seems to think that we would be good together and I would like to think that she knows my tastes somewhat.. Curious and skeptical I consulted the I Ching..
Can you help me with the translation? I can always use the interpretation of others...
22 with changing in the 6th resulting into 36.

Again, always appreciated. Look forward to hearing from anyone and everyone.

candid · Apr 9, 2002

Hi Annietyme.

You didn't mention how you feel about this situation. My impression is that its saying to gracefully withdraw from the offer and hide your light protectively from view, that your integrity will not be encroached upon, and that your will may prevail without awakening enmity.

Candid

annietyme · Apr 9, 2002

Thank you Candid~

I am still not sure how I feel about this particular situation. I want to meet someone with whom I share similiar interests and someone I can enjoy spending time with. However I am skeptical of what my mom thinks would be a good match.

Thanks again~ Annie

hilary · Apr 10, 2002

Hello Annie,

Just another 2p...

I can well appreciate your scepticism! It seems a strange beginning for meeting anyone, 'Mum thinks we're well suited.' Hmmm... (But then - as certain members of this community could tell us - that's just a matter of culture...)

Hexagram 22's lines suggest the story of a courtship, and the whole thing seems to be about how someone presents themselves. This covers the full spectrum from a superficial concern with appearances to a perfect correspondence between a beautiful surface and a beautiful inner truth.

There are good times for dwelling on the presentation, the way you meet and interact, rather than wanting to penetrate below the surface - this is one of them. That top line, 'white adorning' is like undyed cloth: what you see is absolutely what you get, with no disguise or falsification. (And BTW, though you may well have a translation that says white is the colour of mourning, this idea is younger than the I Ching, so not particularly relevant!)

What about the second hexagram, hiding brightness away because of injury, or a fear of injury? Well, this can indeed be a good strategy. Specifically, it's the way to cope when you are excluded from the centre where the decisions are made, and are liable to be misjudged and hurt if you let your true light shine out. Once in a while (and especially as a second hexagram) it can also be a mistake. Not falsifying is one thing, hiding your light under a bushel is another.

So... just to be really helpful, I'm going to differ from Candid on this one. I don't think it can hurt to meet the man, trust the appearances for once and also let your own be quite plain, simple and honest. The I Ching says in that case there is 'nothing wrong' - suggesting it's possible to be too sceptical...

Let us know what you decide, and what he's like if you meet!

nks · Apr 10, 2002

Hi Annietyme,
don't take me as any sort of an expert, I'm more of a bull in a chinashop of free association, but here's what I see:

To me, Grace is connected to serendipity - to a trusting attitude that allows for unexpected coincidences lining up so that the universe seems to be working with you on your goals. Certainly there is a coincidence at the origin here (mom meets guy on plane).

The big question here is *who's* serendipity train are you going to ride on. Your mom sees this as a matchmaking coincidence, and I'm not sure what kind of coincidence you see it as. Maybe it is a coincidence that will help to clarify your relationship with your mom - whether you take (or reject!) her opinion of what is good for you without much question, or whether her opinion is one of many you value before you make your *own* decision.

I might suggest that if you approach this as a "small matter" (a simple welcoming of a stranger to town, who happened to cross your path), and not as a "controversial issue" (a loaded match-making encounter), you may well see your way to a comfortable course of action.

The change to #36 suggests to me that since the young man will come with his own agenda too, you may need to do a little "veiling, yet still shining" in order to make it clear to him you are just kindly welcoming a stranger, not rolling out the red carpet.

If there really is a good connexion between you two, it will come out on its own. Likewise, if there isn't, no harm. Make yourself and the quality of your personality and generosity the issue, not the quality of mom's judgement...

nks

louise · Apr 10, 2002

I guess the answer to your question Annietyme surely rests on the relationship you have with your mother - on whether you view her as trying to run your life, or, as someone you have a very deep empathy with. Possibly it would help to consult the I Ching on the nature of your relationship with her. How much do you want her to influence your life ?

annietyme · Apr 10, 2002

Okay so let me reiterate to make sure that I have this accurate. If I choose to meet him, take him at face value (an exception to things are not always what they appear to be), I should keep myself guarded or protect myself from showing him too much of the real me...
What does this mean if I were to meet him and find that we are indeed perfect for each other? Does this mean I should always keep my 'brightness hidden' or only if I don't like what I see?
I have already chosen to call him and I left a brief message, nothing to much and have yet to hear a response... I will definitely keep you all posted!

Again thank you~ Annie

louise · Apr 10, 2002

Oops I see Nks just said that - in a more eloquent way.

annietyme · Apr 10, 2002

Nks~

Thanks for your insight! I completely agree with what you have stated as your opinion! I have already decided to approach the situation as such (welcoming a stranger into town and offering my services as a personal tour guide).
If it turns to be out to be just that or a possibility of a relationship vs. friendship I will take that step as it approaches.

Also to you louise, My mom does indeed try as hard as she can to influence my life as well do I try hard for her not to be right... I will try as you suggest and ask the I Ching about our relationship... Thanks...Everyone!
~Annie

annietyme · Apr 11, 2002

Well everyone~

I spoke to him last night on the phone for about 30 minutes or more... He seems too good to be true! We have so much in common it is almost erie. He repeatedly said how happy he was that I called (apparently his roommates did not give him my message a few days ago), how much he wanted to hear me sing and hang out with me. We arranged to get together this saturday so I can show him around and hit all the hot spots of southern california. I could barely stop thinking about our conversation and him last night... I will let you all know how saturday goes.

What do you all think about the conversation? Could he be too good to be true?

Thanks again~ Annie

hilary · Apr 11, 2002

The reading doesn't say whether he's wonderful or not... but I think it does say that 'what you see is what you get', pure and simple.

Hoping Saturday goes well

candid · Apr 11, 2002

Hi Annietyme,

I too, hope all goes well. But, I'm wondering why so much emphasis has been placed on 22, which is nothing more than appearance and adornment, when the weightier matter of 36 has been addressed only in passing. NKs has said that , "the young man comes with his own agenda." I view this as significant.

You are talking about spending allot of time alone with someone you don't know. My advise is, keep in a public setting as much as possible until you have had a chance to "see" him in different environments. Once you have gained sufficient cause to trust him more, you?ll be in a better position to establish a more personal relationship.

It may just be my paternal instinct, but my eye is still on the meaning of 36. Please be careful.

~Candid

annietyme · Apr 11, 2002

Thank you Candid for your concern. I am planning on being careful, I will not through caution into the wind just because a great conversation... I realize that he does come with his own agenda and until I find out what exactily that is I will "hide my brightness".
~Annie

louise · Apr 12, 2002

Candid's paternal warning has made me smile - its very sweet - I'm really pleased you are telling us whats happening Annie, I'm very interested in how it goes - I think we could all learn alot from it..Good Luck and stay safe (my maternal instinct coming out here)

annietyme · Apr 12, 2002

Louise~

Both you expressing your concern has made me smile! You both are very sweet and I will be sure to update you as soon as things occur.
Online Clarity Friends is really starting to feel more like Family! I really appreciate everything written... it means a lot to me.
I will stay safe and update you all soon!
Again Thank you~ Annie

nks · Apr 12, 2002

Hi Annietyme,

Now what exactly was your original question? You say you consulted about the situation, but did you have a specifically worded question in mind? That might help in the interpretation.

I join in wishing you good luck, a fun time, and safe exploration.

annietyme · Apr 17, 2002

Hello All~
I apologize for not updating you all sooner, I have been swamped with both work and school.
He was incredible! Such a gentleman, sweet and chivalrous. He brought me flowers, a copy of his CD and another CD that he thought I might enjoy. We had wonderful food, music and conversation. I was so nervous about meeting him but after 5 minutes with him I was completely at ease and remarkably comfortable. There was never an akward moment of silence or anything. My mom was right, we have so much in common! Just about everything! The night ended, unfortunately with my jacket being stolen with all of my keys in the pocket. However, he reassured me that no matter if we found them or not everything would work out. A friend of mine drove us back to my apartment and without having keys to get in he scaled the wall and managed to get to my 2nd story balcony and (thank goodness I left the sliding door open) let me into my apartment. We kissed and made-out a little while drinking a bottle of wine and then he went home.

Nks~ My original question was "What will come from meeting this guy".

So, what do you guys/gals think?
Thanks for everything~Annie

louise · Apr 17, 2002

Well thats fantastic Annie - maybe mother does know best ! In retrospect how would you view the meaning of 22 and the moving lines now ? Thanks for telling us what happened. Hope it continues to go well.

hilary · Apr 19, 2002

I think he sounds sweet

OK, on the I Ching front, I think you might have reached the end of what that first reading was describing: a 'suitor' who's exactly what he appears, and your natural self-protective instincts. I think. Unless we take maximum advantage of hindsight and wonder whether #36 might have referred to the theft of your jacket?

(What does anyone else think?)

You know, the title character for #22 has flowers in it... I hope he keeps them coming!

dharma · Apr 19, 2002

Over the years, I've learned to put to practice being aware in every area of my life as much as possible. Rather daunting at first but more natural to me now. This is my form of 'walking meditation'.

By doing this, I have found that the nature and essence of my relationship to any given person is *always* contained within our first meeting.

Whenever I meet someone for the first time, I pay close attention to the events that transpire, as well as, the people who we 'happen' to encounter.

Afterwards, I 'sit' with it in a very similar manner as I would in interpreting a dream, tarot or i ching. Usually, for me, the things that occur are rather subtle -everyday stuff- so I have to pay closer attention to what transpires.

However, if I had *my* jacket and keys stolen during a date, the red flags would be waving like crazy. I would most definitely be on the alert, especially in regards to the individual I met with.

That's the significance #36 has for me.

Dharma

annietyme · Apr 19, 2002

Hilary & Friends~

In retrospect I think the 36 was a forewarning of the theft of my jacket. Maybe all together a warning to not go to my bar. I am a regular at this lil version of Cheers and everyone there knows me rather well. Maybe that is what it meant by hiding my brightness. I do tend to "shine brightly" when around my bar buddies. Luckily none of the usual crowd was there, yet because it was mostly strangers my jacket was taken...
Ooh and I forgot to mention that my jacket was returned to the bar with my keys in it later Wednesday after I posted that message.
As for 22, I think I might be at the end of it as well. I am not quite sure yet though. We have plans to get together tonight so we'll see.
My next question should probably be "What kind of a relationship will bloom between us" or ? I don't know where to go from here, it is probably too soon to know for sure regardless.
Any advice?
Thanks everyone, I love hearing everyone's view and suggestions/opinions. Keep them coming~Annie

candid · Apr 19, 2002

Hi Annie and everyone.

I doubt that 36 referred to your jacket. There is another possibility. Since 36 was aligned with 22, they could both be saying the same thing, at different levels. Darkening of the light isn't a dimming of your light, only a hiding or covering of it. (adorned with grace) This could easily imply modesty. A way of still shining, though your light is modestly concealed.

15- Modesty, has a different meaning than what we tend to associate the word with. Modesty, in Yi speak, is making something difficult look easy. It?s a bringing to completion without drawing attention to the effort. Though this is never bad council, this was not your message. Your message was 22-36. It was a beginning, not a bringing to completion.

You had mentioned going to a bar, which you frequent. There may have been a temptation or tendency to "let it all hang out" with your familiar friends. Perhaps the council was, hide it, Annie... let it shine.. but hide it awhile. I know if I were the lucky suitor, I would appreciate such modest restraint in you.

Watcha think?

~Candid

annietyme · Apr 20, 2002

Candid~

This does sound a lot like what I was just thinking. A majority of my friends had told me that it might be best to not take him to Cheers for a while, until I got to know him and he me... If only right? I wasn't originally planning on taking him but he wanted to check it out and like I said not many people I know was there that night (He said that he really liked the environment etc). However, the jacket was stolen (then returned this past wed).
What do you think about that? Do you think that the I Ching had warned me about taking him there and although I did any how, my jacket was returned to say, "I made you sweat through this one, but next time it just might not go so well"?
Meaning, I lucked out... Am I making any sense? I am not sure if I understand how to phrase that.
If you understand... let me know what you think.
Thanks Candid and everyone else!
Modestly~Annie [

]

candid · Apr 20, 2002

*chuckle* No, I don't think it was necessarily saying not to go there, nor do I think there was a punitive judgment cast upon you for going there. I think you probably followed the council intuitively. That's how the Ching often works. It just plants the seeds, the images, in our mind, and it harmonizes with us, something like a tuning fork. We adjust to its frequency. From the sounds of your description, the encounter went very well.

The jacket? Maybe the lesson is this: That which is yours, can not be lost. Even if its misplaced, it will return to you. If there was any red flag associated with it, symbolically, here are a couple of quips which come to mind:

1. keep your shirt on
2. cover yourself
3. you get the picture

~

!

dharma · Apr 20, 2002

Annietyme,

Just adding one more item to Candid's list above:

4. protect your keys

metaphorically, as well as, literally you are throwing caution to the wind by giving unknown others *access* (to you and yours) while leaving yourself to struggle to regain your rightful position/place afterwards.

The message is: cover and protect your *light* with more self-awareness because if it's misplaced, overlooked and forgotten you suffer for it.

Dharma

hilary · Apr 20, 2002

Dear Annie (and everyone

)

This is going to sound odd coming from me - I'm always on the alert for signs in my life - but I think it is possible to interpret things too much and read too much into them. Or perhaps it's just that so much depends on your own personal take. Your jacket story leaves most of me very happy and reassured about human nature, and a small cynical voice saying 'shouldn't she get her locks changed?' I don't know that any of that means much!

I don't feel as if we've got to the bottom of #36 yet. I asked the I Ching what I should try to convey to you here - thinking that the message would surely be something like what I wanted to say, namely 'enjoy, don't analyse'. And it gave #36, unchanging.

And just now I asked about the meaning of the jacket incident, and received 36 changing to 24. How do you (all) feel about this? I think it could mean hunting down and overcoming the demon of mistrust (which is something that takes time, and can't be done all at once with a 'hasty divination'). At all events the line is about overcoming the darkness and claiming back the light.

Annie, I really hope you don't mind my doing a couple of readings about your situation without asking you first. My excuse: all I wanted to do at first was to check for myself that I wasn't about to talk utter twaddle... and then when these readings emerged I thought I couldn't really keep them to myself. So here they are...

dharma · Apr 20, 2002

Hilary, we can't place limits on who, what, where, when, and why we can interpret. Life itself is a dream and so everything is fair game in that respect. Nor do I believe that one can go too far in analyzing and interpreting unless the process is driving one around the bend. Then it would be best to let things just *be* until such time as one is not overwhelmed by the symbols.

In anycase, I had a very specific intuition here about #36 for Annietyme's situation. On the one hand, I'm not 100% sure if it fits to the actual hexagram's meaning and, on the other hand, I wished to sensitively express something about behavior without being too direct and thus rude, so I've been going about it in a rather round about way.

The image that came to mind when I was considering #36 comes from one of Christ's suggestions, "Don't cast your pearls before swine."

Now don't get me wrong...I'm not suggesting that anyone here (or there) is a swine (no disrespect to the pig community either -- to their credit, I hear they're quite intelligent!)

What I mean is that we sometimes need to learn to protect that which is most valuable within ourselves. Otherwise, we *give* it away to those who really don't see the value and are only too willing to use and abuse what we've given. We are then left to, not only re-assess our own worth but to re-build our self-esteem after such a loss.

#36 seems to me to be refering to our need to learn how to protect what is best within us and to shine and reveal ourselves to others only after they've earned our trust. That's my take on it.

Dharma

candid · Apr 20, 2002

*echoes Dharma's reasoning*

hilary · Apr 20, 2002

Not arguing, either

candid · Apr 21, 2002

Oh sure..

*teasing*

Does mother really know best?

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