Practical techniques for disengaging?

august moon · Mar 26, 2007

So much of I Ching and the Tao is about finding the Mean, disengaging, stepping back, etc. Often so hard to do when we are heavily invested in an outcome or stuck in particular patterns. What are some of the practical techniques you have used to help you step out of the rut or away from the fray? How do you quell your doubts or the tapes playing in your head?

hollis · Mar 26, 2007

splash of vermouth, with a twist.

hollis · Mar 26, 2007

and if that doesnt knock me out, a hammer on the head really does those voice tapes justice.

Tohpol · Mar 26, 2007

Heh - slice a lemon in mine.

Actually, that's a great question AM, and one I've been thinking about so much lately.

I've never got the hang of when to be passive and when to be active. But I guess it's this point of tension - a creative tension - between the opposites which seems to yield the best results.

Allow me to waffle a bit on this to see if I can get some thoughts in some sort of order...

I think very many of us think that anticipating an outcome or the New Age idea of "creating your reality" somehow fits into the notion of the Tao. I think there's a big difference between forcing the Universe into one's insignificant idea of what we need and actually learning to align ourselves to its Creative aspect. That can be going with the flow or jumping in there with both flat feet. Needless to say, it is the perennial struggle and very, VERY difficult. But slow steps can be taken towards that goal.

When you're investing so much of yourself into a singular reality, against perhaps the creativity of mutiple realities, or possibilities then it stands to reason that we are in a sense, forcing our subjective perceptions against the Universe - pure hubris. The results may be that we receive what we asked for, forced for, but at great cost to other possibilities that could have been birthed if we had stayed in the present. Which is why things so often go pear-shaped in our relationships or other aspects of our lives because we are so addicted to control and the opiate of our emotions. We refuse to listen to that small, still voice inside that whispers to us gently - "Er...No. Not yet." "Sorry, but you know this is not good." Or: "Did you see that little sign there? How about taking five?"

Looking at my past experiences where I thought I was doing ok, I was about as far as you could be from applying the perceived understanding of how to "disengage." I would say, right now, that true self-observation rather than superficial and occasional glance at ourselves is the first mode of handling those inner patterns and needs that get us into all sorts or trouble. As soon as you think you're about to say something, do something and generally replay the wired-in CD of our habitual patterns you have to take action right there and then so that the power is "switched off." Once that "CD" is spinning - forget it. You won't stop it. So, best to head it off at the pass by preparation.

We can only do that when we accept that we are often in denial (a 43 moment) and need a shock. These shocks keep coming because we don't learn. Once we learn the lesson changes. So, to stop repeating patterns is a service to others as well as ourselves where we think of our actions as being intimately connected to everyone and everything - rather like the process by which we tap into the IC perhaps.

I think we're all so governed by the habit of reacting rather than reining in the emotions for nano-second. But once we honestly see how robotic we can be from certain cues which seem to press all our bio-chemical buttons at once, then we can begin to take steps to counter it. That doesn't happen until we'ver suffered a bit - even then it's a tall order. It usually takes enormous strength of will and discipline.

We can think positive thoughts and flit around in a haze of warm, fuzzy feelings but this, on its own, doesn't address the core issues of negative patterning. (Nor does NLP despite what they might tell you). Really knowing yourself and understanding how you tick is the first step it seems to me. Then once you have an accurate appraisal of your personality (and most importantly, past traumas and how they distort your perceptions - we are all damaged in one way or another) you can begin to pin point the patterns as they appear in the present.

Then you can formulate safeguards i.e. watching yourself like a hawk but keeping that balancing act between being positive and fun and deadly serious when you need to be. In other words, thinking how our actions really effects others. After all, it is the actual effects of our actions that determine whether or not we are progressing or regressing.

The IC can really help here as it is big on being objective and big on seeing things are they are in their purest form, uncluttered by our own needs and projections. Hex 52, 41, 20, 5, 9, 15, 18, 47 and 62 are some of the clearest ones that seem to say slow, down LISTEN for once in your life and find your nature. Cool that restless heart and find out who you are so that you can be all you can BE. Stop rushing around searching for satisfaction in others while it resides in yourself. How many of us really believe that? Theory is one thing...

If it was easy I guess we wouldn't have ended up here. You don't really learn much by being blissfully happy just like we can't get to the higher simplicity of the Tao on a $500 dollar weekend on "finding your higher self." It seems we have to understand as much of the complexity of our own natures and how we interact with the external world as is possible in order to even see clearly thr choices we have before us. We can only see those choices by having the humility to acknowledge we know nothing.

Well, I really waffled on that one. :blush:

Now I'll go and do the washing up.

topal

hollis · Mar 26, 2007

or watch a movie with anna magnani

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=anna+magnani&btnG=Google+Search

she scares the hell out of those stale nasty tapes

hollis · Mar 26, 2007

or find an old hand crank victrola and find an old opera record and play it thinking what it felt like to hear sound in ones house for the first time, not in the opera house....

jesed · Mar 26, 2007

Practical....
had you know the Secret of the Golden Flower?

Hope this could be useful for you

Besdt wishes

Sparhawk · Mar 26, 2007

hollis said:
splash of vermouth, with a twist.

No kidding! Not many people I know like vermouth by itself. Since you are at it, serve me one with a few dashes of Angostura bitters.

L

hollis · Mar 26, 2007

guess you can tell i am not a drinker by that

august moon · Mar 27, 2007

hollis said:
guess you can tell i am not a drinker by that

And here I thought you were already drunk!... :rolling:

august moon · Mar 27, 2007

jesed said:
Practical....
had you know the Secret of the Golden Flower?

Hope this could be useful for you

Besdt wishes

I have heard of it, but not read it. I will save that for when I am a little further along in my quest for the Mean. I've never been able to really meditate. Not in the sense of truly stilling my brain.

august moon · Mar 27, 2007

topal said:
Heh - slice a lemon in mine.

Actually, that's a great question AM, and one I've been thinking about so much lately.

I've never got the hang of when to be passive and when to be active. But I guess it's this point of tension - a creative tension - between the opposites which seems to yield the best results.

Allow me to waffle a bit on this to see if I can get some thoughts in some sort of order...

I think very many of us think that anticipating an outcome or the New Age idea of "creating your reality" somehow fits into the notion of the Tao. I think there's a big difference between forcing the Universe into one's insignificant idea of what we need and actually learning to align ourselves to its Creative aspect. That can be going with the flow or jumping in there with both flat feet. Needless to say, it is the perennial struggle and very, VERY difficult. But slow steps can be taken towards that goal.

When you're investing so much of yourself into a singular reality, against perhaps the creativity of mutiple realities, or possibilities then it stands to reason that we are in a sense, forcing our subjective perceptions against the Universe - pure hubris. The results may be that we receive what we asked for, forced for, but at great cost to other possibilities that could have been birthed if we had stayed in the present. Which is why things so often go pear-shaped in our relationships or other aspects of our lives because we are so addicted to control and the opiate of our emotions. We refuse to listen to that small, still voice inside that whispers to us gently - "Er...No. Not yet." "Sorry, but you know this is not good." Or: "Did you see that little sign there? How about taking five?"

Looking at my past experiences where I thought I was doing ok, I was about as far as you could be from applying the perceived understanding of how to "disengage." I would say, right now, that true self-observation rather than superficial and occasional glance at ourselves is the first mode of handling those inner patterns and needs that get us into all sorts or trouble. As soon as you think you're about to say something, do something and generally replay the wired-in CD of our habitual patterns you have to take action right there and then so that the power is "switched off." Once that "CD" is spinning - forget it. You won't stop it. So, best to head it off at the pass by preparation.

We can only do that when we accept that we are often in denial (a 43 moment) and need a shock. These shocks keep coming because we don't learn. Once we learn the lesson changes. So, to stop repeating patterns is a service to others as well as ourselves where we think of our actions as being intimately connected to everyone and everything - rather like the process by which we tap into the IC perhaps.

I think we're all so governed by the habit of reacting rather than reining in the emotions for nano-second. But once we honestly see how robotic we can be from certain cues which seem to press all our bio-chemical buttons at once, then we can begin to take steps to counter it. That doesn't happen until we'ver suffered a bit - even then it's a tall order. It usually takes enormous strength of will and discipline.

We can think positive thoughts and flit around in a haze of warm, fuzzy feelings but this, on its own, doesn't address the core issues of negative patterning. (Nor does NLP despite what they might tell you). Really knowing yourself and understanding how you tick is the first step it seems to me. Then once you have an accurate appraisal of your personality (and most importantly, past traumas and how they distort your perceptions - we are all damaged in one way or another) you can begin to pin point the patterns as they appear in the present.

Then you can formulate safeguards i.e. watching yourself like a hawk but keeping that balancing act between being positive and fun and deadly serious when you need to be. In other words, thinking how our actions really effects others. After all, it is the actual effects of our actions that determine whether or not we are progressing or regressing.

The IC can really help here as it is big on being objective and big on seeing things are they are in their purest form, uncluttered by our own needs and projections. Hex 52, 41, 20, 5, 9, 15, 18, 47 and 62 are some of the clearest ones that seem to say slow, down LISTEN for once in your life and find your nature. Cool that restless heart and find out who you are so that you can be all you can BE. Stop rushing around searching for satisfaction in others while it resides in yourself. How many of us really believe that? Theory is one thing...

If it was easy I guess we wouldn't have ended up here. You don't really learn much by being blissfully happy just like we can't get to the higher simplicity of the Tao on a $500 dollar weekend on "finding your higher self." It seems we have to understand as much of the complexity of our own natures and how we interact with the external world as is possible in order to even see clearly thr choices we have before us. We can only see those choices by having the humility to acknowledge we know nothing.

Well, I really waffled on that one. Now I'll go and do the washing up.

topal

That's a big waffle to chew on!

bruce_g · Mar 27, 2007

I'll take the shortcut to the bottom of Topal's waffling post:

topal said:
We can only see those choices by having the humility to acknowledge we know nothing.

Just kidding, Topal. I enjoyed reflecting on all your thoughts.

But, doesn't getting in sync with the Tao really boil down to just that: having the humility to acknowledge we know nothing? Doesn't this retreat from old anxious tapes, outworn reflexes or outmoded software, really come down to remembering that this is all jive talk? That even my greatest ideas aren't so great, and my accomplishments really don't amount to much? Isn't that the greatest relief from all those ties that bind? Isn't that the only way to still the chattering monkey long enough to actually be able to hear that still, small voice?

For me, this matter of reaching a comfortable plateau, the mean or axis, is often blown out of proportion, and perhaps out of context. In fact, it annoys me when people take such pride in their humility as to present themselves as always being in the dao-zone. I don't believe it. Not for a moment. People aren't made that way; not even so-called sages.

Is blowing your own horn out of the Tao? Not if you're a horn blower. Is being arrogant out of the Tao? Not if you're arrogant. Behaviorism which is suppressed for the sake of walking the mean misses the point of both good behavior and the mean.

The first step to levitation is to lighten up. Then I can laugh at my foolish tapes, and lose interest in listening to them.

lightofreason · Mar 27, 2007

august moon said:
So much of I Ching and the Tao is about finding the Mean, disengaging, stepping back, etc.

more so about exaggerations and restoration of balance and so covers dynamics of 01,02 11,12 29,30 63,64.

01,02 11,12 pair have a subtle biases to a zero-sum game. To restore balance overall, with no clear 'winners/losers', just balance then (a) identify the hexagram that best fits the situation and then (b) identify its 63-ness. 63 covers completion and as such includes restoration of balance, we have come up/down from the low/high to 'complete' - this completion is all encompassing such that it serves to finish all - no one wins or loses, all is 'back to normal' as such.

Its like a joke - if you know the punch line you can walk away from what leads to it, the tension, surprise etc etc etc The punch line gets everyone to laugh/cry but knowing it 'neutralises' all. (12 covers neutralising from a 'you win' position where winning is in holding off the attacks of others and so validating one's belief, the one you are fighting to protect. 11 covers harmonising, mediation for the sake of getting off on the skill and so 'you win'. 01 covers really getting off on the skill! 02 covers devotion to another (and so the intensity, competitiveness of 12 is transformed into cooperativeness, the volume turned down (or in a negative perspective, total darkness))

64 covers intentionally remaining open, avoiding closure (included in that is mis-sequencing, getting steps wrong and so tail wet, lack in precision, we delay closure for more info) --- this is akin to putting everyone on 'hold' (64-ness) as compared to closing off all (63-ness).

so -- given your concerns the focus is more on the dynamics of 63/64.

29/30 cover group dynamics - 29 to protect (issues of rejection/rejecting) 30 to exploit (issues of acceptance/accepting) - IOW being 'in' a group is a form of balancing even if the group in relation to others is extreme.

Note that 63/64 'entangle' 29/30 natures as 11/12 'entangle' 01/02 natures.

the 63-ness focus is to XOR 63 with the hexagram covering the situation. Thus if the focus is on 01 then the 63-ness is described by 64 - remain open, avoid closure here and balance will be restored since 01 is an extreme state, you need to delay its ability to express or more so allow the energy to dissipate and so 'complete' ;-)

OTOH the 63-ness of 02 is .... 63. The focus here is on a need to complete to restore balance, being too 'yin' is an extreme state as being too 'yang' is an extreme state - 02 covers excess openness and so completion is closure. 01 covers excess high energy and so completion is dissipation of such (dont dam it up, let it flow and so calm down)

You dont know how to XOR? - see http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/introXOR.html

bradford · Mar 27, 2007

I'd focus on Hexagrams 12 and 33,
my commentary edition if you don't get it.
The Yi has a lo to say about disengagement
that isn't pure escape, denial or avoidance.

Tohpol · Mar 27, 2007

bruce_g said:
I'll take the shortcut to the bottom of Topal's waffling post:

Just kidding, Topal. I enjoyed reflecting on all your thoughts.

You got me!

bruce_g said:
But, doesn't getting in sync with the Tao really boil down to just that: having the humility to acknowledge we know nothing? Doesn't this retreat from old anxious tapes, outworn reflexes or outmoded software, really come down to remembering that this is all jive talk? That even my greatest ideas aren't so great, and my accomplishments really don't amount to much? Isn't that the greatest relief from all those ties that bind? Isn't that the only way to still the chattering monkey long enough to actually be able to hear that still, small voice?

So true. My only fear is that we switch off completely and forget that we have to think as well as feel. But yes, you're right of course, especially about these circular thoughts that go around and around...

bruce_g said:
For me, this matter of reaching a comfortable plateau, the mean or axis, is often blown out of proportion, and perhaps out of context. In fact, it annoys me when people take such pride in their humility as to present themselves as always being in the dao-zone. I don't believe it. Not for a moment. People aren't made that way; not even so-called sages.

Is blowing your own horn out of the Tao? Not if you're a horn blower. Is being arrogant out of the Tao? Not if you're arrogant. Behaviorism which is suppressed for the sake of walking the mean misses the point of both good behavior and the mean.

The first step to levitation is to lighten up. Then I can laugh at my foolish tapes, and lose interest in listening to them.

Great stuff Bruce. I hope I can do that in time. :bows:

topal

bruce_g · Mar 27, 2007

I think it's simply a matter of being fully yourself. Refinement is a work of art, but conformity and suppression of true nature is blasphemy, which robs the art and artist of their authenticity.

We're all a work in progress. There is no finish line, that I'm aware of.

august moon · Mar 27, 2007

lightofreason said:
more so about exaggerations and restoration of balance and so covers dynamics of 01,02 11,12 29,30 63,64.

01,02 11,12 pair have a subtle biases to a zero-sum game. To restore balance overall, with no clear 'winners/losers', just balance then (a) identify the hexagram that best fits the situation and then (b) identify its 63-ness. 63 covers completion and as such includes restoration of balance, we have come up/down from the low/high to 'complete' - this completion is all encompassing such that it serves to finish all - no one wins or loses, all is 'back to normal' as such.

Its like a joke - if you know the punch line you can walk away from what leads to it, the tension, surprise etc etc etc The punch line gets everyone to laugh/cry but knowing it 'neutralises' all. (12 covers neutralising from a 'you win' position where winning is in holding off the attacks of others and so validating one's belief, the one you are fighting to protect. 11 covers harmonising, mediation for the sake of getting off on the skill and so 'you win'. 01 covers really getting off on the skill! 02 covers devotion to another (and so the intensity, competitiveness of 12 is transformed into cooperativeness, the volume turned down (or in a negative perspective, total darkness))

64 covers intentionally remaining open, avoiding closure (included in that is mis-sequencing, getting steps wrong and so tail wet, lack in precision, we delay closure for more info) --- this is akin to putting everyone on 'hold' (64-ness) as compared to closing off all (63-ness).

so -- given your concerns the focus is more on the dynamics of 63/64.

29/30 cover group dynamics - 29 to protect (issues of rejection/rejecting) 30 to exploit (issues of acceptance/accepting) - IOW being 'in' a group is a form of balancing even if the group in relation to others is extreme.

Note that 63/64 'entangle' 29/30 natures as 11/12 'entangle' 01/02 natures.

the 63-ness focus is to XOR 63 with the hexagram covering the situation. Thus if the focus is on 01 then the 63-ness is described by 64 - remain open, avoid closure here and balance will be restored since 01 is an extreme state, you need to delay its ability to express or more so allow the energy to dissipate and so 'complete' ;-)

OTOH the 63-ness of 02 is .... 63. The focus here is on a need to complete to restore balance, being too 'yin' is an extreme state as being too 'yang' is an extreme state - 02 covers excess openness and so completion is closure. 01 covers excess high energy and so completion is dissipation of such (dont dam it up, let it flow and so calm down)

You dont know how to XOR? - see http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/introXOR.html

Lightofreason, I have to humbly say that I don't get any of this. And the mathematical/semiotic gymnastics of XOR are way beyond me. Thank you anyway. I think.

august moon · Mar 27, 2007

bruce_g said:
I think it's simply a matter of being fully yourself. Refinement is a work of art, but conformity and suppression of true nature is blasphemy, which robs the art and artist of their authenticity.

We're all a work in progress. There is no finish line, that I'm aware of.

Being fully myself seems to have gotten me to a point I do not like, which is not helping me deal with my long distance relationship, and more importantly, not helping me digest or put into action what I am gleaning from the Yi.

I look at the universe as a Giant Fractal, or really, many intersecting Giant Fractals, made of patterns temporal and spatial, historical and cultural, and personal and biological etc -- if we only have the wisdom or insight to perceive them. I look at I Ching divination as a way of lifting the curtain of our ignorance/myopia which hides the Giant Fractal, so that we can see just a bit more of the pattern. For perceiving patterns is a definition of intelligence.

bruce_g · Mar 27, 2007

august moon said:
Being fully myself seems to have gotten me to a point I do not like, which is not helping me deal with my long distance relationship, and more importantly, not helping me digest or put into action what I am gleaning from the Yi.

I look at the universe as a Giant Fractal, or really, many intersecting Giant Fractals, made of patterns temporal and spatial, historical and cultural, and personal and biological etc -- if we only have the wisdom or insight to perceive them. I look at I Ching divination as a way of lifting the curtain of our ignorance/myopia which hides the Giant Fractal, so that we can see just a bit more of the pattern. For perceiving patterns is a definition of intelligence.

I respect that. But if you must be something other than fully yourself to make progress with this relationship (or anything else), can that ever be a good thing in the long run? Won't the facade fall off at some point? And then what?

You, as well as anyone, should pursue your own interests in such things as you’ve described. Sounds very interesting to me. This comes from fully yourself, doesn’t it? And your passion to seek and find it is equally all you. Follow your bliss, as Joseph Campbell has said. That’s all I’m saying too. There is no one-size-fits-all, where this is concerned. You have to find and/or create your own.

Your original question asked for practical techniques for disengaging. There are many, as I’m sure you’re aware. Yoga, walking, working out; those are all techniques, which work for some. But what often happens is that we don’t disengage from the source of our conflicts, we merely find diversions from them, and those diversions can do more to mask our problems than to cure them. I’m quite sure you’re aware of this, also.

I’m afraid I know of no shortcuts, or at least ones which last. We carve our life out as we go, and we do the best we can with who we genuinely are.

august moon · Mar 27, 2007

bruce_g said:
I respect that. But if you must be something other than fully yourself to make progress with this relationship (or anything else), can that ever be a good thing in the long run? Won't the facade fall off at some point? And then what?

You, as well as anyone, should pursue your own interests in such things as you’ve described. Sounds very interesting to me. This comes from fully yourself, doesn’t it? And your passion to seek and find it is equally all you. Follow your bliss, as Joseph Campbell has said. That’s all I’m saying too. There is no one-size-fits-all, where this is concerned. You have to find and/or create your own.

Your original question asked for practical techniques for disengaging. There are many, as I’m sure you’re aware. Yoga, walking, working out; those are all techniques, which work for some. But what often happens is that we don’t disengage from the source of our conflicts, we merely find diversions from them, and those diversions can do more to mask our problems than to cure them. I’m quite sure you’re aware of this, also.

I’m afraid I know of no shortcuts, or at least ones which last. We carve our life out as we go, and we do the best we can with who we genuinely are.

An infant is most fully him/herself, but it's not the best way to go about in the world as a grown-up -- despite any nostalgia about the pure beingness of infanthood. (We've got an infant in the White House and look at the havoc being wrought in the world...but I digress.) To cultivate a little more detachment will empower me and stop the thinking thinking thinking about a problem/situation when is not actually productive or enlightening. And when the I Ching is telling me left and right to step back, wait, have faith, disengage from the doubts, I want to at least try.

Tohpol · Mar 27, 2007

august moon said:
An infant is most fully him/herself, but it's not the best way to go about in the world as a grown-up -- despite any nostalgia about the pure beingness of infanthood. (We've got an infant in the White House and look at the havoc being wrought in the world...but I digress.) To cultivate a little more detachment will empower me and stop the thinking thinking thinking about a problem/situation when is not actually productive or enlightening. And when the I Ching is telling me left and right to step back, wait, have faith, disengage from the doubts, I want to at least try.

Just in case you aren't doing it already, I think maybe at this stage its a question of grooving yourself into activities and actions that can reduce the anxiety or stress seeing as there's nothing you can do about the situation right now. Perhaps the only way to syphon off some of that mental energy is to channel it into your body and out through the muscles. Exercise! Simple but very effective. Detachment might be a bit easier when some of the emotional static has gone. Swimming is immensely balancing or perhaps tai chi classes - but whatever it is, its the regular routine of exercise that can really make a difference. Not the whole answer of course but worth a go.

(An infant in the Whitehouse? I'd say a fully grown psychopath...)

topal

mudpie · Mar 27, 2007

you don't have to be always in the dao-zone to just not get attached to outcome. you just let it go. refuse to mull. suspend your disbelief. To your old tapes, you say "Thanks for sharing, now get lost."

We make it too big a big deal if we think we have to be a sage or a taoist holy person in order to rid ourselves of unwanted thoughts/old tapes. Be like Scarlett O'Hara and just say everytime: "I am not gonna think about that (fear, doubt, negativity) today, I'll think about that tomorrow"

and the other side of the coin is to "pray with a feather, not a pickaxe".

It works

bruce_g · Mar 28, 2007

listener said:
"pray with a feather, not a pickaxe".

Great quote!

bruce_g · Mar 28, 2007

august moon said:
An infant is most fully him/herself, but it's not the best way to go about in the world as a grown-up -- despite any nostalgia about the pure beingness of infanthood. (We've got an infant in the White House and look at the havoc being wrought in the world...but I digress.) To cultivate a little more detachment will empower me and stop the thinking thinking thinking about a problem/situation when is not actually productive or enlightening. And when the I Ching is telling me left and right to step back, wait, have faith, disengage from the doubts, I want to at least try.

Of course! You expect an infant to wear Brooks Brothers suits and sell for IBM? An infant is an infant. No one suggested we should remain infants. Refinement, is the word I used.

There’s two approaches you could take:
1. I’m going to do this if it kills me! (and it probably will)
2. Release your breaks.

Which do you think cultivates detachment?

There's such a thing as trying too hard; which is also my response to your 41 thread.

Trojina · Mar 28, 2007

My only way with thoughts that bug seems to be letting them have their way, crazy and annoying and painful as they are, and while fully experiencing them not take them too seriously. Only this week I must have spent hours on end thinking on the same treadmill of what might be/could be and today the thoughts got bored and quit . I didn't even try to detach I let myself immerse in it and stared at the wall for a long time..I actually find this method quicker and more effective than struggling to appear calm to myself or methods of distraction.

I'm not convinced these episodes we go through don't have a purpose for us, its often just our psyches way of struggling to accomodate new feelings/information. Surely to get uptight about banishing these painful repetitive thoughts only adds to the burden. They may be our friends working something out for us.

Of course if it gets to the point where its making one ill, not sleeping or eating then other ways need exploring.

august moon · Mar 28, 2007

I do not know where you all got this idea that I am trying to out-holy anybody, even myself (not difficult...if y'all even knew... :rolling:

) I'm not uptight so much as I'm trying to cultivate some patience and to not get to het up about things, for my own sake and in order to allow the Yi or the Great Fractal to show me that indeed, things are going to work out in time. Wallowing in my doubts is not useful -- going round and round in my head is not productive. Exercise is a great idea, and trying to turn off the tapes somehow is what I want to do. Vermouth is not a good idea...

Saw a billboard for a VW: "Misery has plenty of company -- try happiness."

Tohpol · Mar 28, 2007

august moon said:
I do not know where you all got this idea that I am trying to out-holy anybody, even myself (not difficult...if y'all even knew... ) I'm not uptight so much as I'm trying to cultivate some patience and to not get to het up about things, for my own sake and in order to allow the Yi or the Great Fractal to show me that indeed, things are going to work out in time. Wallowing in my doubts is not useful -- going round and round in my head is not productive. Exercise is a great idea, and trying to turn off the tapes somehow is what I want to do. Vermouth is not a good idea...

Saw a billboard for a VW: "Misery has plenty of company -- try happiness."

Well, it's always difficult to know the degree of emotional disturbance someone is feeling when they are going through certain challenges. The internet doesn't allow for the subtleties. If you're not uptight, yet you're wanting to cultivate patience in order not to get het up about things then it comes down to the same thing, no?

topal

august moon · Mar 28, 2007

These smileys could represent getting het up without being uptight :rant:

Trying to channel one's "het-up" mind towards a more calm state doesn't necessarily mean repression or getting "uptight". Just as "letting go" or detaching doesn't mean giving up -- only I haven't figured out how to do it...

getojack · Mar 28, 2007

Slow down and take a deep breath. Don't try to disengage from those tapes running through your mind. Just let them come, observe them as if they're an interesting species of chattering monkey, and let them go.

Try not to slip into old repeated patterns of behavior. How do you do this? Constantly be aware of your feelings, thoughts and actions... for example, ''My nose is itchy... how interesting. I'm scratching my nose... how interesting.''... you get the idea.

If you can maintain this mindfulness for about a minute, you're doing an excellent job. If you slip, just go back to watching your breathing... ''in...out...in...out''.

The suggestions others have given here are also really good... exercise, tai qi, yoga, etc. Use whatever works.

Practical techniques for disengaging?

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