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rosada

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Anybody got an idea for a really good question we could consult the I Ching about? Something that's not subjective, something that we can all take a stab at interpreting and get some real feedback as to how close we came to getting it right?
 

Grandma

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Well, in professional tennis there is a dominant player named Roger Federer from Switzerland. He is already spoken of as the greatest tennis player of all time. Of the four Majortournaments in tennis, he has one three (some three times) but he has never one the French Open which takes place at the end of May. It's played on Clay and there is a dominant player from Spain named Nadal that keeps beating him and everyone else on this surface. (The professional tour plays on clay for about two months of the year, the rest of the time is hard courts and one month on grass courts). Will Roger Federer win the French Open this year? This is a real intense question in the tennis world currently and like I said the French Open is the end of May ( it's for two weeks) so the definitive answer will be soon. I think it's a good question cause it's not life or death and probably alot of you aren't that into the answer so you would be really objective.
 

rosada

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oooh, good one. Okay, Susan, do the toss.
 

Grandma

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I don't want to do the toss cause I really want him to win, I'm not objective.
 

Tohpol

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I don't want to do the toss cause I really want him to win, I'm not objective.

I'm not sure you need to worry about that. I can't count the number times I tossed the coins desperately wishing that the answer be to my liking. 9/10 the IC gave me the advice that was needed rather than the advice I wanted.

topal
 

martin

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Okay, I asked if Federer will win Roland Garros (The French Open) this year.
Answer: 54.4 > 19.

Looks like he will win it eventually but probably not this year. :)
 

Grandma

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I know I could do the toss w/o objectivity but I really care that he wins. I guess also Nadal is looking almost unbeatable for some reason.
Well, both the line answers 12.1 and 54.4 I never mind getting. Both are very intriguing in this context. Do you believe in the answer would be the reason for the win/defeat? The 12.1 in Sam Reiflers says you are being swept away from danger.
 

willowfox

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Done the toss:

1. TTT
2. HTT
3. HTT
4. HHT
5. HHT
6. HHT
I am using the system where Heads = 3 and Tails = 2, the accepted system?

This gives hex 46.1 > 11

Hex 46.1 says that he does have the ability to beat Garros, and his trainer will push him even harder.

Hex 11 suggests that it is a new period of growth for Federer, a time when his projects will thrive and it is up to him to try his best to win. It suggests that he can win this year if he applies himself. A time of peace and prosperity is indicated, ie winning.

Can it mean that he does not actually play Garros because Garros loses to someone else in the earlier rounds? I am asking because I don't know very much about championship and its rules and regulations. Do they pick names at random to play each other?

This reading is based on Crystal Blue's throw of the coins and the answer differs from Martin's which indeed suggests that he will not win this year but probably next year.

So, the dilemma now is which throw of the coins to take into account because they give two different answers? Susan has got Hex 12.1 > 25 from Crystal's throw which also gives a negative answer along with Martin's. So what happens now?
 
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rosada

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Seems to be some confusion over crystal blue's toss. Seems to me it should be 25.1>12.
Crystal blue, can you tell us which hexagram your toss indicates?
 

martin

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Can it mean that he does not actually play Garros because Garros loses to someone else in the earlier rounds? I am asking because I don't know very much about championship and its rules and regulations. Do they pick names at random to play each other?

It's not entirely random. They use a method called 'seeding' that prevents favourites for the title from meeting in the early rounds.
And Federer and Nadal are both favourites.
Still, it's of course possible that Nadal and Federer don't play eachother because one of them loses to other opponents.
Another possibility with 54.4 is perhaps that F doesn't participate this year because of injuries. I'm not sure if the line indicates something like that but it was the first thing that came to my mind.

I would also like to know which hex Crystal threw .. :)
 

willowfox

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Well, Federer certainly looks like he will win in France, and he has no injuries at the time of writing.
 

rosada

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I think 54.4 a great mirror of what we already know:

"The marrying maiden draws out the allotted time." Wilhelm says of this, "The girl is virtuous. She does not wish to throw herself away, and allows the customary time for marriage to slip by." Could this be saying that Federer has been playing his game well, not stressing about this particular cup, even though one might have thought he ought to have won it by now?
""A late marriage comes in due course." Wilhelm: "However, there is no harm in this, she is rewarded for her purity and, even though belatedly, finds the husband intended for her." So now the question is, is the I Ching saying that now, this year, he will be rewarded, or is YC saying that once again he'll be left feeling, "Maybe next year..."?
19. certainly gives hope that he has mastered all the moves, yet danger in the "eighth month"...

Well, I'm going to bet my nickle he wins. The I Ching seems to be saying it's certainly his turn, he knows what to do and as long as he stays on top of things the odds are in his favor. Maybe this is an example of something that is not fated, where anything really can happen. Anyway, I say he'll win, especially if he takes an early lead so any screw ups in the "eighth month" wont derail him.
 

rosada

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You know what? I'm going to change my bet. I'm going to bet that Federer is NOT going to win. The I Ching is stating a situation that can be very easily seen as discribing what happened last year, and so I'm going to interpret this as meaning the same thing happens again this year: Full of promise, knows all the right moves, but it's just not his night.
I'm making a point of saying this because supposedly consulting the IChing is like having a dialog and I'm tired of reading what IChing has to say and then having to scratch my head and guess anyway. So, IChing, from what you're telling us, I'm getting you're saying this year will be the same as last year. If I've misunderstood you, please speak to me more clearly. Thank you.
 

martin

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I asked if Nadal is going to win in France and got 47.2.5.6 > 35.

This is odd. There is two times (in line 2 and 5) mention of 'knee bands' in this answer and Nadal had a lot of troubles with his knees and often wears knee bands ......
So, maybe he can win but he will have a difficult time due to knee problems?
 

Grandma

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I think based on the 54.4-19 reading by Martin that Federer certainly has the chance to win. Get ahold of his nerves, he really wants to win and he might waste his energy with his nervousness.He must time his forehand properly and use it properly. (Returning to right from wrong by awaiting the proper time. Cleary 54.4). Mustn't depend on brute force. Mustn't pull the trigger too early to end points.(this is the opposite of general public opinion if he plays Nadal) Don't let the opportunities skip by.(if the opponent is playing a poor point?) Don't sprint out ahead in the beginning (he did this last year and lost. This is also sort of against popular opinion) He really has to do well with his serve. (this has been a problem for him lately) "It is important not to miss in the firing process" Cleary hex 19.I think that's the crucial thing for him, to get in first serves.
I think popular opinion sees Nadal winning again, interesting to see how this plays out.
 

bradford

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Done the toss:

1. TTT
2. HTT
3. HTT
4. HHT
5. HHT
6. HHT


There is no accepted system for the value of heads and tails,
and all the experts are pretty evenly divided on the question.
Why don't you provide this in 6 to 9 numbers?
 

willowfox

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"I asked if Nadal is going to win in France and got 47.2.5.6 > 35.'

Hex 47.2 suggests that he is exhausted and feels depressed, needs to focus on the French open and pray.

Hex 47.4 He does not think that he can win, needs to switch to winners mode.

Hex 47.5 Again suggest that he is wracked by doubts, he really wants to win but he doubts that he can. He needs to change his doubts into thoughts of victory but can he?

Hex 35 Progress does indeed suggest that he can win but he has to find peace and harmony within himself before he can win. It does suggest that he will be honoured and receive gifts, cup, money etc.
Given that he is having doubts about his own ability this month, will he win this year or next?
 

crystal_blue

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There is no accepted system for the value of heads and tails,
and all the experts are pretty evenly divided on the question.
Why don't you provide this in 6 to 9 numbers?

Precisely because there's no accepted system for the value of heads and tails.
 

Trojina

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Precisely because there's no accepted system for the value of heads and tails.


Is your name August Moon too cos she is the only other person I've seen here write out the hexagrams in this way. In your conversation with the oracle you decide what value you ascribe to each side of the coin - you then stick to it - this enables you and the oracle to communicate. Of itself it matters not a whit how you decide this - yet you seem to think it has some kind of intrinsic importance - it doesn't. Do you think the Yi is going to be a stickler about heads and tails - there is no right way - as long as you stick with the values you chose. How can it matter ? It would work just as well if we used 3 flat pebbles and painted one side red - which side we then chose as a yin/yang value is then our choice.

If you can't say what hexagram you got then theres no point playing games and trying to make people guess or argue about what you got which I feel is what you are trying to do.
If you don't know what hexagram you got and you still don't understand how to make one then my suggestion is you start a new thread on the topic.
 
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Grandma

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I think the Nadal toss 47-35 Shows Nadal winning. He is exhausted physically and almost down for the count but he behaves as if he is winning and pumps himself up. Red knee pads-he falls to his knees in the red clay after his win and probably falls/ during the match and gets red clay on him then. He dresses up after the win and goes to the official party. He won the last two years in a row, so how could progress this year be a loss for him? He has to be the winner.
Federer probably loses in an earlier round and doesn't make it to the final.
Acccording to the 12.1 reading this is good for him, cause he would have lost to Nadal anyway and it would have been humilating.
 

crystal_blue

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If you can't say what hexagram you got then theres no point playing games and trying to make people guess or argue about what you got which I feel is what you are trying to do.

I interpreted Rosanda's original post as wanting to diminish the subjective aspect.
 

Trojina

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I interpreted Rosanda's original post as wanting to diminish the subjective aspect.


:brickwall: She meant as in not caring too much about the outcome (though listening to Karcher here the other day he seemed to think caring about the outcome 'powered' the I Ching, gave it the 'charge').

Deciding on the value of the sides has nothing to do with subjectivity - I give in - I give up :brickwall: I'll leave you all to discuss tennis I got a headache
 

getojack

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I interpreted Rosanda's original post as wanting to diminish the subjective aspect.

Hmm, if you really want to diminish the subjective aspect, you could always use a catapult to fling your favorite translation of the I Ching at a wall and see what page it lands on.
 

rosada

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When I asked for a question that was not subjective, I was not refering to the method one would use to consult the I Ching. I was refering to the sort of question we would ask.
A subjective question is one that is answered by each individual according to their inner feeling, and therefore the interpretations cannot be so easily judged as right or wrong. Examples of subjective questions:
Does God love me?
Am I better off now than I was five year ago?
Why do I feel I've known you in a past life?
Only the person asking these questions can distinguish if the answers given are right or wrong.
Objective questions on the other hand, are ones that have to do with material objects as distinguished from mental concepts, and thus right or wrong answers are easily distinguished by everyone. Examples of objective questions:
How will the trial turn out?
Where is my lost object?
What will the weather be tomorrow?
 
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Grandma

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Here's what Hilary has to say about 19 ,it's from a thread from October, 2006:
"Bruce, I can understand your raised eyebrow at 19's 'supreme success'. If you need things to come together now, then Nearing is not such good news. Silly example: if I'm asking about a tennis match (my favourite way of practising), I expect the 19 competitor might be runner-up.)
Funny!
 

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