I asked the I-Ching:

"Why is it so hard for me to find a girl?


8 - -
8 - -
8 - -
7 ---
8 - -
8 - -

Hexagram 15 - Modesty



So it's telling me something about being rather unimpressive, ordinary, plain.
I have been told by many and often I'm not a modest looking person. But Good looking.

I don't feel I'm plain either...
...
So is it saying i'm shy?
Lack Confidence?
Self-conscious?

These are all synonyms of modest.

I am introverted. I have my own views of things.

Other synonyms:

-Unpretentious
-unostentatious
-simple
-plain

I think these describe my personality.
Being Taoist kinda is synonymous with those qualities.

...

OK so I asked then:

What - do I need/can i do - to make it easier for me to find a girl?


7 ---
8 - -
8 - -
8 - -
7 ---
7 ---

Hexagram 41 - Decrease

So this is where I say things like wtf and other unpleasant things.

Decrease usually means diminish, reduce,

What on earth am I supposed to reduce?
This seems totally contradictory.

If I'm plain...
Why would it say reduce myself???

Is it is saying I need to reduce my high-expectations?
Go for something less desirable?
Less attractive?

---


If it's saying my modesty is the problem
It can't be saying reduce myself in order to have success...
Thats a contradiction. Lowliness as the problem cannot be the solution.

So there must be another dimension to it.
If my modesty is the problem.
Perhaps it's saying reduce my modesty.
Be less introverted, shy, or self-conscious?

Frankly I have a hard time believing it's that either.

I have very little ego here. So i'm just going to post this and see if anyone can help.
Yes I'm a utterly parched and starving child of humanity when it comes to sex.
And as far as I can see there is little to no reason for it.

God or the universe or whatever, has given me a more powerful sex drive than most people
and also given me this totally impossible situation of perplexity.

I mean If I can break through this. I feel it would be equivalent of humanity has discovered a way to end all world suffering, or discover a way to replicate food out of thin air like in star trek - or something -HUGE.

If anyone can shed light on this enigma. I would really appreciate it.
I have REALLY been mystified by this for a very long time.
I've never been able to understand why somone like me,
can have so much trouble getting a goddamn girlfriend.

It feels like a "**** you and the rest of your life I'm going to create you so I can burn you" from the universe to me personally.

15 can be about just being who you are without pretensions and being straight forward in communications. With a name like CyclotronMajesty without even knowing anything about you, you seem inflated/big/overblown. I know its a fake name but still you put 'majesty' in there, even in jest, lol it gives a certain impression - I'm not saying you are inflated/grandiose/overblown of course but the impression if it may be a factor hindering your love life ?

I see a similar kind of message in 41. To find a girl lower the whole fevered pitch of your endeavour. 41 advises to 'curb passions' . Maybe you're too 'full on' and they would prefer a more relaxed approach - In 41 one needs to sacrifice something for the sake of the greater good. Maybe theres some part of your persona you need to let go of in order to move forward. Here it could be anger/impatience a fixed view of how things should be ? I don't know you need to think about that .

This kind of question belongs in the shared area BTW

I ching is talking to you and just saying: "try modesty for a change".
I ching isn't a doll or a logical machine, but very much alive and very intelligent.

I get 15 sometimes when the I Ching wants to tell me a simple
"what can you do about it.... things are modest, not much you can do".
Similarly with 41. I had it before, when the meaning was simply "this is a
time of thin cows", and try to be satisfied with small/modest things only.
Meaning it's nothing you are responsible for, it's nothing you're doing wrong,
it's just that bad times do happen. It does sound sort of infuriating, but then
again i guess bad and lonely times happen to all people alike (small consolation,
i know...).

This is a really bizarre phenomenon you're describing, and it does make me
wonder, as i know of a few more people, who've been in the same situation,
for about the past 3 years. Brilliant people, modest people, good looking, clever,
got it all (and also, who were never short of partners in the past, and never
before had any difficulty in finding one), and still, not being able to find a
partner (or perhaps not being able to find a matching partner). Maybe we
should all organise a gathering to fatten up the cows and pair up with each
other lol.

Hi CM

Trojan's candor cracked me up, as it's probably what others might think but wouldn't say. I mean, your question/answer under the heading of your chosen name, it makes for a natural parody - no offense intended.

In addition to the more obvious meanings, I like to associate three other aspects of 15:

Making the accomplished appear easy and natural

Less talking, more doing

Team playing, i.e. be interested in her, not only in her interest in you. More than any of the above, that will encourage her interest in you.

I agree with the others that hex 15 is saying you should be more modest and real. but not sure in what area exactly, so maybe ask yourself where are you not accepting modesty?

This is from LiSe on hex 15 which she calls "give and take"

It is an art, expressing oneself and at the same time not offending the other in any way. Giving him his honor, respecting his views, giving him the room to express himself too.
Unity means also to stay free of black-white thinking.

How do you go about approaching women? What type of women are you attarcted to?
Are your standards too high, perhaps you are not open to various types of women?
(a more modest type?)Do you expect women to pursue you and are you afraid to take risks. Maybe you are a little too "cocky" (this is usually out of insecurity")

I don't know the answer but these are some questions to consider.

I'm thinking about asking the same question as I've got the sameproblem!!

Good luck!

OK i'm just going to ignore the fact that someone brought up my screen name.
lol y'all are funny...

This is not the first time people have poked me about my screen name. I think it says more about them than it does me... in fact i know it does. No offense intended. I hope that doesn't sound too inflated... ...lol

41 meaning lower the fevered pitch is (no offense) bullshit.
I have no fevered pitch. I'm 25. And I've NEVER had a girl.
I've had this condition for a long .... long time.
At least 6 or 7 years.

I've been around long enough folks. I'm just letting you know it's not that.
But I thank you for trying to help me - cuz I know it's not your prob.

And I assure you I'm not FULL on. I'm not grandiose.
If anything I'm quiet and mousy.

Jilt - frankly i'm not going to bow to a book of divination. If it isn't going to give me productive answers. It's useless to me. I'm not here to bask in the enigma of the I ching.

Dimanda - perhaps you interpretation of 15 is correct. Perhaps it's just saying these are modest times. I'm NOT modest in my personality (and i don't mean inflated) i'm rich. I have allot of unique things and ideas, that come from me spending a long time in the dark thinking and contemplating about reality.

Sometimes when the I ching answers a question it just tells you what conditions fullfilll it. It's very much a 2d mirror in that way. You ask somthing it will just decribe the obviousness of your question. Which is how divination works....

I hear that other people have this situation usually it is less dramatic than me though.
While you speak of others who have had success. I am someone who has had none.
I have had moments of high probability obstructed by freak incidents. But still since I have ever started to think about girls. I've never gotten one. And there is really NO obvious reason. The things people mention are so staggeringly superficial compared to the power of this situation in my life. There needs to be some BIG OBVIOUS RED SIGN
just so that the waves coming off reflect the size of the object displacing them.

This is a EXtreme situation. I'm closer to 30 now than 20. And nothing is changing except I'm really growing up now, leaving behind all adolescence yet still trapped there in a MAJOR way because of this. I'm easy to get along with and I have (just trust me) a very small ego. I'm very yielding and compromising, and always give the benefit of the doubt. I don't do this to please others (not a pushover). I do it because it is less contrived.

At least you Diamanda are able to apprecaite my situation. Just multiply what you've heard of times 3 and thats my situation since puberty. Lol it's a ****ing joke. I feel like Neil Armstrong, or Magellan on the terms of exploring a truly novel situation: "where no man (or woman) has gone before"

Meng while I apprecaite you effots. Your words are the extent of the pools of endless advices I've sought from people from all across the world about this - for many years ... even Before it became clear that this is something seriously ****ed up. I've heard it all.

Trust me I'm not as infantile as My situation would describe me to be. Quite the opposite.

25 is still quite young, the universe has plenty of time to deliver

maybe 15 is saying you are too modest - "mousy"

maybe 41 says reduce your expectations
are you exceptionally picky about women? surely you could go out this evening to a pub or something like that and meet a girl, maybe a less extraordinary girl and get her number , take her out for dinner, court her......there are so many young women who would enjoy a little romance
JUST DO IT< just go out and ask SOMEONE to go out withyou, anyone, break the spell, break the solitude, stay less in your head and more out in the open, taking risks, making a fool of yourself? who cares??????????? just go out and be a bit reckless, what have you got to lose?

OK so I asked:

Please specify what I'm supposed to decrease in terms of 41 to make it easier to find a girl?

8 - - - -
8 - - - -
8 - - - -
9 --- - -
7 --- ---
8 - - - -

46 -> 7

Pushing upward to the Army

Seems to support your advice Tojan - Lower the fevered pitch.

So I guess in short what it is saying is Give the **** up.
Fine. Done. With pleasure. Makes no difference to me.
I barely even try... I'm not calling a girl every day.
I don't talk to very many - very often.

While there are others who do, and have much better sucess - but I'm supposed to lower my pitch?

What do yo all think of this reading in context with this "situation"?
You think it's saying lower my pitch? I have no pitch to lower. lol. I'm goddamn shy!

listener said:

25 is still quite young, the universe has plenty of time to deliver

maybe 15 is saying you are too modest - "mousy"

maybe 41 says reduce your expectations
are you exceptionally picky about women? surely you could go out this evening to a pub or something like that and meet a girl, maybe a less extraordinary girl and get her number , take her out for dinner, court her......there are so many young women who would enjoy a little romance
JUST DO IT< just go out and ask SOMEONE to go out withyou, anyone, break the spell, break the solitude, stay less in your head and more out in the open, taking risks, making a fool of yourself? who cares??????????? just go out and be a bit reckless, what have you got to lose?

Click to expand...

Intersting. This would be more along the lines of my own thinking.
Of what I need to do (even before I consult the yijing)
41 meaning take risks, humble myself more, be more in the open.
I think thats it. (Aside from the last cast which ties the knot of confusion behind my eyes) Becuase thats what I have so much trouble with. I just have the hardest time. Playing that game - it's so excruciatingly humbling.

If anything somone has finnaly hit a nerve. Thats a big one for me.
I have 1 billion and 1 barriers against doing that, Listener.
I think i'm gonna try that. Hopefully I don't piss myself.

Gonna have to write what you said down and take it with me...

What listener said is what I was getting at too but I'm not as good with words.

CM I think you will be fabulously surprised to know that women are quite receptive to a man who takes risks and wants to wear the pants and court her! Many women find this a real turn on, so go for it! Just be yourself, find a girl you like, approach her, ask her questions about herself, see if she is receptive, ask her for her phone number. Not EVERY woman will want to date you, but I bet at least one will!

Keep us posted!

Thanks for your encouragement

Is that what 46 is saying?
But I asked in terms of decrease.
Maybe it's saying there is no obstacles to remove...

I do have a couple girls who I call once in a blue moon (like 1 time 1 or 2 weeks)
This one girl i've known for a while, keeps motivating me with her words, but always cold-shoulders.

That is ever what all 6 trillion of them have and like to do.

First they will seem OK with everything.
But then they stop talking to me (when least expected).
Women are so nice.

CM...with the cold shoulders girl...have you asked her out directly? , or do you call and make small talk and then get nervous and not ask her out? (too mousy modest).

If you've never asked her out directly and you are interested in dating her just bite the bullet and say "I'd love to take you to dinner on Wednesday night".

But don't wait until the last minute to ask her , call her a few days ahead...maybe she's already got plans or is dating someone else . Sometimes women are "warm with words, cool with actions" because she wants a guy to chase her a little. It's not a game, it's her being receptive and seeing if you are REALLY interested. She might not think you are if you've never asked her out. IMO this is the way it should be I'm kind of old fashioned that way).

Trust me, I've had guys do this to me...they call me alot but they never ask me out....little did they know if they had just asked I would have said yes.

Also, women sometimes warm up to men slowly. Donn''t be afraid of rejection and give up so quickly.. If she continues to be encouraging with her words, then she might eventually say yes.

Maybe she will say "I'd love to but I already have plans on Wednesday" That's okay, then ask her for a different day. Don't PESTER her but until she says something really obvious like "I just want to be friends" you've still got a green light.

The "give and take" of hex 15 is the "dating dance". We'd all love for this to be simple and easy but it takes practice!

I see hex 41 "One uses restraint on one's desires." as saying that you hold back. "

Do you think I need to be talking to her to do that?
I could just send a Text or Voice Message...

I HAVE asked one girl who says
"we should hang out"
She doesn't answer the goddamn phone. (and I don't think she's going to)

(I left her a message early this week.)

Saying:
lets "get coffee" (Although I hate coffee) sometime this week.
Now it's friday. no response...

I think I might eat this wooden desk for lunch today.

I think I might eat this wooden desk for lunch today.

Click to expand...

Haha, yes I see your frustration...don't give up!

If you want to get to the date faster you should call. Texting takes too long. Also calling shows more confidence IMO.

Also when you say "let's get coffee" it puts the ball back in HER court, now you are waiting for her to pursue you in a sense. Some women don't want to pick up the ball.
Maybe a better approach is to say something like "Are you available to get together for coffee or drinks on Friday?"

Then she can say yes or no.

See the difference? If she doesn't EVER answer your calls or reply to your text she is probably not interested. Move on...

When you plan a date there are 3 criteria. Time, day, activity. Don't make her do all of the work. Give her all 3 and you'll get your answer much faster.

When did you draw 46?

46 seems to say you will get there step by step, don't worry. And like I said before I think 41 is about you not daring to take risks. Not taking responsibility...blaming others. To change involves sacrifice.

41 says reducing is emptying out old beliefs and getting rid of past conditioning.

OK - I've honestly NEVER done that. I thought it would be more fun to talk and be creative together on the avenue of the activity. Mutual interest.

But my bad.

I drew 46.3 -> 7 on the Previous page.
I asked what i needed to decrease.
It seems to say I don't need to decrease anything
Or that I need to decrease trying to increase anything.

So it's either just give up.
Or don't give up.

OK - I've honestly NEVER done that. I thought it would be more fun to talk and be creative together on the avenue of the activity. Mutual interest.

Click to expand...

Sure, but this is a first date. You want to give her a chance to get to know you and vice ve
rsa. Often women are very impressed by a guy who shows leadership and planning .

This is why traditionally the man pays for the date.

Now I know some people have strong opinions about this. Maybe this is a topic for a different forum. It just depends on what type of girl you want.

There are also different kinds of men...masculine energy men and feminine energy men. Pick a role and stick with it. If you are masculine then you are active and it's best to find a feminine (receptive) woman. Equality doesn't work here.

I often find that men THINK they want a woman who will pursue them (or be their equal in the relationship), and it works out for a while, but they loose interest and they aren't sure why. This happens the other way around too. A girl THINKS she wants to wear the pants in the relationship and she is aggressive, but actually she can't respect a guy who isn't take charge (I speak from first hand experience here).

Now if you truly are a feminine energy man then it could work with a masculine energy woman. I believe the duality is what makes it work.

Just something to think about...no flaming please!

I'm kind of confused - where did I flame?

Hope you don't take my frustration personally.

Other than that I appreciate your helpfulness and honesty.
Very helpful to hear.
I think your right. About the role reversal phenonomon.
-_-

I'm kind of confused - where did I flame?

Click to expand...

no, not you, I thought some people might be offended by my old-fashioned dating values.es now that we are all liberated and such.

anyway, give it a go and see what happens!

gotta go do some work now,

Be well

Openheart

"don't know how good it is until you loose it"

Perhaps we are proving this adage to ourselves these liberated days.

Roaring 20's here I come. hehe.

But thats another topic entirely

Thanks again. Very helpful

CyclotronMajesty said:

41 meaning lower the fevered pitch is (no offense) bullshit.
I have no fevered pitch. I'm 25. And I've NEVER had a girl.
I've had this condition for a long .... long time.
At least 6 or 7 years.

I've been around long enough folks. I'm just letting you know it's not that.
But I thank you for trying to help me - cuz I know it's not your prob.

And I assure you I'm not FULL on. I'm not grandiose.
If anything I'm quiet and mousy.
.

Click to expand...

Well looking at your reaction to my attempt to help I can see why you have trouble ! My advice re 41 has absolutely nothing to do with whether you ever had a girl, its to do with your attitude which is clearly very fevered as in intense, urgent etc. You know even shouting "I'm not FULL ON" belies what you say.

Anyhow sorry I bothered. I won't in future.

I've got time to write a few more thoughts now, i hope you find them helpful. It makes
the answers much clearer, and very slightly different, to know that in your case it's not
a matter of just a short period of loneliness, but an ongoing (and so far unchanging)
situation.

Why is it so hard for me to find a girl? 15
15 is a totally good and positive answer. It does not tell you that you are too shy. Modesty
is a virtue to be praised, not to be told off about, and certainly not by the I Ching, where
Modesty is praised to no end! If the I Ching wanted to tell you that you are too shy and thus
ineffective, it would give you something like eg 57, change 1, to 9 (= you are not acting,
and thus are ineffective). Also, not only does 15 praise modesty to the utmost, it also gives
you a very positive message: "Modesty creates success. The superior man carries things
through". Wilhelm comments: "It is the law of heaven to make fullness empty and to make
full what is modest". Legge comments: "Humility is the way to permanent success".
So, in a nutshell, you have no fault here, continue to be modest, and you will find a girl.

How can i make it easier for me to find a girl? 41
It's important here to see, first of all, that 41 says "Without blame". Free of error. Again
i don't think it's your fault, something you brought about, because 41 speaks of a time of
lack. Which happens to absolutely everyone. I see this as the 'background' to your specific
question - a time when we need to 'restrain our instincts'. So, how can you make it easier?
The text says: "How is this to be carried out? One may use two small bowls for the sacrifice".
It's a small sacrifice here. It's something small, given with sincerity. "Decrease combined
with sincerity brings about supreme good fortune". What you need to give, to 'sacrifice',
is not something huge and substantial. Because if we give something small, but with
sincerity, then that is much more touching and effective than, say, to give a huge and
expensive gift but without any feeling whatsoever. But what is it that you have to give
and sacrifice and offer? I'll get back to this in a minute, but i'll say for now that i agree
with Trojan that it's a part of you, a fixed belief that you need to let go off. Your next
answer contains clues as to what that is, and quite a few of the things you say yourself
point to that direction too. But i do think that the offer/sacrifice here has two meanings,
both a small fault of yours to give up, and to remember that giving something small with
sincerity brings success.

What am i supposed to decrease? 46, change 3, to 7
You said "it is saying is Give the **** up", lol...! 46, in short, is actually saying "Don't give
up!". It is telling you, first of all, not to give up. It speaks of slow, sustained progress, "not
by violence but by modesty and adaptability". This describes an ideal situation. Take it easy,
naturally, and slowly, and don't give up, advance, keep on advancing without stopping, and
"fear not". However, here comes line 3, to sort of ripple this nice and slow idyllic set up.
Suddenly one is advancing with great boldness 'through an empty city'. There seem to be
no obstacles around. The subject fearlessly ascents and progresses quickly, with nothing
to stop him. All obstacles seem to have mysteriously disappeared. This is the point where
an amazing opportunity arises, and you must grab it asap!
I really think that the answer so far is telling you - do not give up, you need to make a
sustained effort. It's what Openheart said. You need to learn how to do this, how to
approach someone, how to ask, how to take the initiative (and i couldn't agree more
with her that it's the man's job to take the initiative). And if you do this, there will come
a moment when it will be the moment to grasp! A great opportunity, you will meet
someone great, and she will like you too. And what are you to do then?
7. Take the initiative. Be the 'leader'. Be disciplined. You said yourself that you have lots
of good qualities, well, keep them all active, with discipline and control, and be brave.


Back to 41. I'll summarise its three aspects here again, in the light also of the above:
1. This is a time of lack.
I will not analyse this, as it's too obvious.
2. If you give something small, with sincerity, it will work.
This tells you that you do not need any earth-shaking techniques, or any grand gestures
and flashy gifts and possessions to find a girl ('two small rice bowls', perhaps take her
to a chinese restaurant) (lol im not serious here, sorry couldn't resist this!).
3. Decrease a fault (or 'two') of yours.
Which, in my opinion as an outsider, are these:
--- "it is saying is Give the **** up"
--- "Playing that game - it's so excruciatingly humbling."
46 tells you clearly not to give up, but to practise and learn, ceaselessly, and not to fear.
Also that all this is not a worthless game. It's a serious matter which needs controlled force.

So, all in all, and as this epic i've just written implies, it sounds to me like your luck is
just about to change, if you put in some effort! (make sure you come back to tell us the
good news )

PS - and i understand how utterly frustrating this is for you, but the people here are
trying to help you, and meaning well. No need to take it out on other people, and
neither on the girls....!!! Would you find it fair if i automatically considered you a
b@st*rd, just because i've met a few of them in the past...? (a rhetorical question!)

Good luck to you!

And another PS - modesty (15) combined with strength (7) is an extremely appealing
combination! It's hard to like someone who is either strong and arrogant, or modest
and weak.

Diamanda Thanks so much for writing that epic. =D

very good. I will keep the thread updated.
...

I'm super pessimistic. But i'm also idealistic.
I'm not weak. Sensitive but not weak.

I suppose if I get farther than I've ever gotten
with a girl it will mean i'm moving forward.
All that means for me is a sincere connection
and a real action to back it up. i dunno what else...

..
I like your interpreations and agree with them.
Although it somtimes is confusing on how these are interpreted.

I will work at decreasing my inhibitions, and being more generous with my proposals to girls.

Thx again.
I'll keep thinking about these symbols as I go. They will keep me encouraged. =)

do you live in the US by any chance, Cyclotron?

Well I took your advice OpenHeartsf.
And did the whole thing right up front.
Asked the same girl, out on a "date" time, place, activity.

She responded and said yes.

...

Then she flaked out.
Said had other things to do.

Then all my memories of other girls
doing the same came flooding back in.
I realized how common this little candy is.

Anyhow I returned her call and did my duty:
"It's OK" np and all that.


So then I asked the Yijing:

What am I supposed to do about girls flaking out on me?
8 - - - -
7 --- ---
7 --- ---
8 - - - -
8 - - - -
6 - - ---

45 -> 17

Seems to say this is common with immature people when they are gathering.
And the advice seems to be just go with the flow. Like it says in 17. '

Which is what I did.

Perhaps it is also saying to me not to be led astray by this.
But keep following the leader (the plan).

I only asked because I was in the store the other day and a younger man whom I had never met approached me, and after idle chatter, asked me if I would consider having dinner with him. I though he was charming, and the whole thing a coincidence. dont think he was 25 tho

=)