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Unwanted Side Effects of Using I Ching Divination

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Was wondering if anyone has identified negative side effects of using divination to find guidance in times of emotional turmoil - or otherwise.

I myself have noticed a increase in obsessive nonsensical thoughts in my mind.
Anyone else have that? I have a obsessive mind in the first place.

I've also noticed using it as becoming a replacement for my own independent search for clarity. Yet is unfulfilling and ever dis-empowering as it's a rather eerie thing to depend on for certainty. At least for me.

I've also been trying to quit the I Ching for some time now. It's just like an addiction.
I have yet to put it in my life properly. For a while I was bowing down to it - then I threw it like popcorn got into arguments and disagreed with it (humiliating waste of time). I've been using it for at least 3 years or so.

Some of the reasons to quit are:

I cannot understand the answers anyway.
It takes so long to understand the answers you might as well figure things out without it.
Seems a little weak minded to depend on it.
Some people say it's just giving you a reflection of yourself.
Other people say it's talking with evil spirits demons or ghosts.
It can definitely be an obsessive thing.
Well it is a weird thing It does open up a whole lot of stuff that is pretty dark and mysterious which is normally hidden in mundane life. Which can lead to further explorations into strange dark corners of reality.

Reasons I don't wish to quit:

Can give definitive answers to questions nobody has the answer to (like the future).
Has allot of timeless wisdom in it that I've yet to completely understand.
It can be a therapy to throw it when you feel ostracized and rejected.
You can be immature and worthless as long as your humble to the I Ching correcting you.
If your already in weird and dark places it can actually be a light out of the immediate dark corner.
 

fkegan

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Hi CyclotronMajesty,
You correctly identify the issues of being prone to obsessive or addictive behavior and consulting the Yi. I went through a Yi addictive phase some decades ago in the early years of my Yi adventure. The only positive thing I can say about Yi addiction is that it is far less destructive than substance abuse and if done well you at least learn all the hexagram patterns and their numbers which is the first rung on the ladder of Yi scholarship.

Beyond that I can only share with you Rilke's advice to a young poet. Paraphrasing from the original letter-- If you can quit than do so and go on with your life. If not you are a poet and accept your fate and make the best of it.

Best of Luck, welcome to the Yi community of personal intensity.:)

Frank
 

tulipan

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My experience with the I Ching is quite small so far, and I noticed moments of turbulence in my mind that have reflected as obsessive search for answers throwing the coins. In my case, using the I Ching is not what produces or enhance the situation, but takes it out from my own mind. What I mean is that it doesn't exalt or increase my obsession with the thought, it is just manifesting it out of my mind. Probably it happens to all the people that think a lot about what is going on. For what I've seen in this forum, most of the people that has a lot of experience with the I Ching has gone through this period. They give amazing readings today. Perhaps it is part of the deal to obsess, learn the hexagrams numbers by heart and learn how our mind tries to keep controlling the outcomes of our lives... until we finally give up and stop resisting what it comes.
 

Samgirl

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There was this excellent thread about something related to this topic. I also go through those phases, quite often still. But well, as Frank and Tulipan confirm, it seems a quite common phase for everyone who starts searching for answers.

I haven't felt any side (negative) effect... but the contrary. My obsessive questioning (which is already in my head) comes out while I am asking and asking..., the responses I receive from Yi create all sort of emotions in me (which at first can seem negative) but at the end it becomes a cleanup of what was bothering. I find that the Yi helps me to go through the process in the way that is needed at the moment.
 

bamboo

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I cannot understand the answers anyway.
It takes so long to understand the answers you might as well figure things out without it.
Seems a little weak minded to depend on it.
Some people say it's just giving you a reflection of yourself.
Other people say it's talking with evil spirits demons or ghosts.
It can definitely be an obsessive thing.
Well it is a weird thing It does open up a whole lot of stuff that is pretty dark and mysterious which is normally hidden in mundane life. Which can lead to further explorations into strange dark corners of reality.

Reasons I don't wish to quit:

Can give definitive answers to questions nobody has the answer to (like the future).
Has allot of timeless wisdom in it that I've yet to completely understand.
It can be a therapy to throw it when you feel ostracized and rejected.
You can be immature and worthless as long as your humble to the I Ching correcting you.
If your already in weird and dark places it can actually be a light out of the immediate dark corner.

it may sound strange, but i think just about everything we do in the world of form has a hint of "addiction" connected to it. The reason being that human beings are primarily addicted to thoughts/mind. If you elected to never use the yi again, you'd probably get obsessed with some other mental gymnastic routine.

but the yi is as good, or better, than any other addictive pasttime. It is a portal into a larger realm; used as a mental gymnastic game, the Yi is just a voice in the wind, though. it cant take me anywhere I am not present enough to experience

the moments of Clarity are the moments when I get out of my head.

anytime I get desperate enough to let go, thought stops and Clarity is present. If you ask a question of the Yi from this place of complete openness, the Clarity of the response knocks your socks off, your whole body is electrified.

If I throw coins from a place of confusion and mental insistence on getting an answer to my woes, then i dont get much clarity. just thoughts clunking around in my brain.

but it isnt the Yi that is the dangerous thing, nor the countless other addictions we fasten onto. it's us, our mind more specifically. the mind is a great tool, but we give it too much power. it isnt possible to think your way into full-bodied clarity, Logic is a jokester at best, but he will take you around some interesting, or horrifying, circles.

every addiction is really a gift. It's kind of like that song from the wonderful tv drama Damages with Glenn Close: "When i get through with you, there won't be anything left..." addiction to anything puts you through the wringer and finally you get spun dry. When there is nothing left of "you" then Clarity has a chance to be present.........and then everything without exception glitters with pure Clarity. you dont even need the yi, it could be a breeze or a glance, or your big toe:rofl:

i see the Yi like "the Hound of Heaven" chasing you around and around the mental loops until finally you stop and let him take you

As the hound follows the hare, never ceasing in its running, ever drawing nearer in the chase, with unhurrying and imperturbed pace, so does God follow the fleeing soul by His Divine grace. And though in sin or in human love, away from God it seeks to hide itself, Divine grace follows after, unwearyingly follows ever after, till the soul feels its pressure forcing it to turn to Him alone in that never ending pursuit.
The Neumann Press Book of Verse, 1988

george herbert's poem, too, seems to describe the way one can run and argue and get dismayed/addicted/insistent in the process of any search for truth
I struck the board and cried, "No more;
......
What? shall I ever sigh and pine?
My lines and life are free, free as the road,
Loose as the wind, as large as store.
......
Have I no harvest but a thorn...?
....
Sure there was wine
Before my sighs did dry it; there was corn
Before my tears did drown it.
Is the year only lost to me?
Have I no bays to crown it,
No flowers, no garlands gay? All blasted?
All wasted?
Not so, my heart; but there is fruit,
And thou hast hands.

..... leave thy cold dispute
Of what is fit and not. Forsake thy cage,
Thy rope of sands,
Which petty thoughts have made
....
While thou didst wink and wouldst not see.

....Call in thy death's-head there; tie up thy fears.
He that forbears
To suit and serve his need,
Deserves his load."

But as I raved and grew more fierce and wild
At every word,
Methought I heard one calling, Child!
And I replied, My Lord.


the yi is always offering a 61.2
let your addiction spin you dry to stop.
 

Trojina

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Was wondering if anyone has identified negative side effects of using divination to find guidance in times of emotional turmoil - or otherwise.

I myself have noticed a increase in obsessive nonsensical thoughts in my mind.
Anyone else have that? I have a obsessive mind in the first place.

Yes I've had that. I think when that happens its best to put the Yi aside. I'm talking of times I was bordering on anxiety disorder/depression. Consulting the Yi wasn't the best thing then.

I've also noticed using it as becoming a replacement for my own independent search for clarity. Yet is unfulfilling and ever dis-empowering as it's a rather eerie thing to depend on for certainty. At least for me.

I've also been trying to quit the I Ching for some time now. It's just like an addiction.
I have yet to put it in my life properly. For a while I was bowing down to it - then I threw it like popcorn got into arguments and disagreed with it (humiliating waste of time). I've been using it for at least 3 years or so.

I think these are valid points. The answer is I think one should not depend on it for certainty unless one is a superhuman diviner. Can one rely on anything for certainty ? As humans we can't i don't think. I recognise what you say, have done this myself, the arguments etc lol. Now I think you should always remain captain of your ship. The Yi isn't there to give you orders and in retrospect times i thought i disagreed with it i didn't even understand it anyway so would have been better off not asking.

Some of the reasons to quit are:

I cannot understand the answers anyway.
It takes so long to understand the answers you might as well figure things out without it.
Seems a little weak minded to depend on it.
Some people say it's just giving you a reflection of yourself.
Other people say it's talking with evil spirits demons or ghosts.
It can definitely be an obsessive thing.
Well it is a weird thing It does open up a whole lot of stuff that is pretty dark and mysterious which is normally hidden in mundane life. Which can lead to further explorations into strange dark corners of reality.

Maybe you should just step back a little. Have a break from it. Or realising you don't fully understand the answers take them on board as just one factor in your decison about the question.

Reasons I don't wish to quit:

Can give definitive answers to questions nobody has the answer to (like the future).
Has allot of timeless wisdom in it that I've yet to completely understand.
It can be a therapy to throw it when you feel ostracized and rejected.
You can be immature and worthless as long as your humble to the I Ching correcting you.
If your already in weird and dark places it can actually be a light out of the immediate dark corner

Yes all that too. FWIW i found as i said already when I found consulting was dong my head in, making me more neurotic, less decisive, that was a good time to put the book away for 6 months and just live and make decisions like everyone else does. It was always very refreshing and I always found when i did return to the Yi i had a much clearer connection with it. :D
 

phatoz

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CyclotronMajesty said:
Was wondering if anyone has identified negative side effects of using divination to find guidance in times of emotional turmoil - or otherwise.

I myself have noticed a increase in obsessive nonsensical thoughts in my mind.
Anyone else have that? I have a obsessive mind in the first place.

Yes I've had that. I think when that happens its best to put the Yi aside. I'm talking of times I was bordering on anxiety disorder/depression. Consulting the Yi wasn't the best thing then.

I can personally attest that, after 6 months of tail-spinning within the depths of a nervous breakdown, the only thing that gave me a stable surface upon which to reconstruct myself was with the divination results of the Yi.

It has been the only tool [crutch] that has had the ability to shine light upon my condition and show the pathway 'out-of-it' while at the same time quietly filling up those thousands of holes in my heart. Nothing - not the anti-depressants, the doctors, nor friends or family, was able to reach into that blackness and shine a light into that corner.

It has been, and remains to be, the best thing for me at those dark despairing times.

Tools are funny that way, especially two-edged swords, cutting in two ways at once.

Zoe
 

Sparhawk

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Dilbert is a Yi diviner gone the wrong path... :D

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bamboo

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I can personally attest that, after 6 months of tail-spinning within the depths of a nervous breakdown, the only thing that gave me a stable surface upon which to reconstruct myself was with the divination results of the Yi.

It has been the only tool [crutch] that has had the ability to shine light upon my condition and show the pathway 'out-of-it' while at the same time quietly filling up those thousands of holes in my heart. Nothing - not the anti-depressants, the doctors, nor friends or family, was able to reach into that blackness and shine a light into that corner.

It has been, and remains to be, the best thing for me at those dark despairing times.

Tools are funny that way, especially two-edged swords, cutting in two ways at once.

Zoe

I love this post, Zoe, and I heartily agree. I have had periods in time where literally I wonder what I would have done witout the Yi. It can be a touchstone of sanity when the world looks dark......and maybe it is because, in those times of the dark night of the soul, we are most opened and humble....... whatever the Yi is in essence, it shows a heart and soul of compassion and understanding when that is needed, even if/when it is underlining difficult passages to be made. which is why I trust it as friend for so many many years.
 

phatoz

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I love this post, Zoe, and I heartily agree. I have had periods in time where literally I wonder what I would have done without the Yi. It can be a touchstone of sanity when the world looks dark......and maybe it is because, in those times of the dark night of the soul, we are most opened and humble....... whatever the Yi is in essence, it shows a heart and soul of compassion and understanding when that is needed, even if/when it is underlining difficult passages to be made. which is why I trust it as friend for so many many years.

Gosh, :blush: thanks :bows:. I came back to this thread to rephrase what I was trying to say (at times I am my worst critic). Mostly what I meant to say is that no matter where you look, religion, crazy-house, Buddhism, crime, Harry Thunderer, Cosmic Muffin or under the welcome mat by your front door you will see (find?) what you are looking for.

Since Dilbert in Luis' post only sees the cubicle he works in for 8 hours a day he sees only that which affirms what he suspected in the first place - that he is not a free agent and that his choices are not his to make. An illusion many of us have fallen prey to. Maybe the Yi is an illusion too...

I guess you see only what you focus on in the first place. And yes, when wandering around in the dark bumping into things unseen (and stubbing your T.O.E.), preconceived notions cannot be formed and true static-free reception can be achieved.

It's discerning between those static-free moments (clarity) and the white-outs (ego driven static) that are the most difficult to sort out. And if one of the unwanted side effects of the Yi is understanding yourself - Knowing Yourself - then I second what every one else has said about addiction thus far. At least knowing yourself can do more good than harm. Even if most of your possessions get broken to pieces in the process.

Zoe
 

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