62. Hsiao Kuo / Preponderance of the Small

meng · Jan 3, 2010

62 musings..

Corporate culture saying: Nearer the top, closer the door.

Climbing to the top of a low thing may meet with descending to the bottom of a high thing, but they're still two different things. Collisions create life.

my_key · Jan 3, 2010

ravenstar said:
In trying to understand 62.5, the symbolism of the cave caught my eye. The cave has been symbolized as the womb, of rebirth, the unconscious, etc., as well as a respository of wisdom through experience....the heart of experience....many sages and hermits have visited/lived here.

In this instance is the prince to open his mind and heart for in the cave itself lies the answer to what or whom he seeks? Are we being asked or did something ignite our spiritual eye to see or take us beneath the surface.....is this where the truth lies? Is this where we step back and take a wider view........small things we never noticed before take on a new importance.

ravenstar

Hi Janice

Interesting thoughts here, trying to unravel 62.5. This line is heaven/man how we link with spirit so it could well be "ignite our spiritual eye to see or take us beneath the surface".

For me as well there is also the continuation through from Hex 61 - Inner Truth. Whatever picked up there with our open inside and solid outside has been directed to say inside here in Hex 62, not to fly even though we think we can at line 1 and with increasing levels of awareness of what is going on around us in Hex 62 as we go up the lines we arrive at how we might best organise things when we are surrounded by the small.

Here I think that we are being prompted to seek the answers inside, rely on our intuition more - our connection to our centre. It's been tucked away at the back of the cave.....out of sight, out of mind. Now the prince, the man who would be king, can see the benefits of utilising this increased awareness and it has to be done so in the framework of no ego, so intuitive thinking has to be brung in slowly. Test it out, give it a whirl - start small , accept you'll make a few mistakes......but you gotta use it or you'll lose it again....it's dark at the back of that cave. The danger comes in being fearful of what you have hit in the back of the cave...for me there seems to be a link here as well to which inner truth did you actually lasso and how aare we going to recognise it, acknowledge it.

Fan Yao 31.5
Nine in the fifth place means:
The influence shows itself in the back of the neck.
No remorse.

The back of the neck is the most rigid part of the body. When the influence
shows itself there, the will remains firm and the influence does not lead to
confusion. Hence remorse does not enter into consideration here. What
takes place in the depths of one's being, in the unconscious mind. It is true
that if we cannot be influenced ourselves, we cannot influence the outside
world.

rosada · Jan 3, 2010

62.6

He passes him by, not meeting him.
The flying bird leaves him. Misfortune.
This means bad luck and injury.

If one overshoots the goal, one cannot hit it. If a bird will not come to it's nest but flies higher and higher, it eventually falls into the hunter's net. He who in times of extraordinary salience of small things does not know how to call a halt, but restlessly seeks to press on and on, draws upon himself misfortune at the hands of gods and men, because he deviates from the order of nature.
-Wilhelm

rosada · Jan 3, 2010

62.5/62.6 Musings..

62.5
"The prince shoots and hits him who is in the cave."

62.6
"He passes him by, not meeting him."

62.5 hits the perfect bull's eye, 63.6 misses the mark.

meng · Jan 3, 2010

62.5 The prince is trying to coax a rodent from a hole over there.

meng · Jan 3, 2010

62.6 Not following his example, the hunter becomes the prey.

rodaki · Jan 3, 2010

62.6 is a line that had me thinking some time ago . . when I look back at it now I think it meant sth like 'that was a slim passing but you've made it so far, don't try for more, or presume you're flying high, keep close to the ground', or something of the kind . .
it was a scary line to get at the time, but in fact it was a very worried, dire warning, like 'watch out!! get down NOW!!!!'

:blush:

hilary · Jan 4, 2010

62.6 - not meeting, not connecting, not really getting the situation at all, flying into trouble. Often it seems the bird needs somewhere to rest, something to sustain it, but it just hasn't quite noticed that it's going further and further away from any support or safety. The misfortune here is 'blunder' as well as disaster - the kind that comes of clouded vision. 'Get back down!' is good - probably we need a diagram drawing for us with arrows, too.

maremaria · Jan 4, 2010

"The flying bird leaves him."

Hi all,
Could someone explain me what the "flying bird" symbolize here and what the "him"
I assume that we are not that bird here but the "him" So what could be that bird ?

Thanks
Maria

rodaki · Jan 4, 2010

further thoughts on 62 . .

62 reminds me of Symplegades', the 'Clashing Rocks' from the Argonauts:

from http://jacksimonetta.wordpress.com/2009/07/17/between-scylla-and-charybdis/

Symplegades (sim-PLEG-uh-deez). The Clashing Rocks, which smashed together upon any ship passing between them. Jason and the Argonauts had been advised to avoid this trap by causing a bird to fly ahead of their vessel. The Symplegades clashed together on its tail feathers, then drew apart in readiness to clash again. At this moment, the Argonauts sailed through safely, with only minor damage to the very stern of their ship.
http://www.mythweb.com/encyc/gallery/symplegades_c.html

if this seems fitting, then in 62.6 the bird passes but the ship misses it's moment and runs the risk of being crushed . .

p.s: just saw your post Maria . . not really in place to give an I Ching answer but the Argonaut example made it somewhat clearer in my eyes . .

edit: more on the 'Clashing Rocks' theme here . .

heylise · Jan 4, 2010

"The flying bird leaves him."

'Him' can just as well be 'it'. But very interesting is 'leaving'. It is Li, the name of hexagram 30.

maremaria · Jan 4, 2010

heylise said:
"The flying bird leaves him."

'Him' can just as well be 'it'. But very interesting is 'leaving'. It is Li, the name of hexagram 30.

thanks LiSe !
For some reason, perhaps because Li (30) is about the bird , i was trying to find a connection between 62 and 30 ...but no fire at 62

meng · Jan 4, 2010

Hence we have the modern colloquialism, flipping the bird.

maremaria · Jan 4, 2010

didn't know the expression... google it and...

we have another name for that finger

fkegan · Jan 4, 2010

There are many images, metaphors and symbolisms that appear in various commentaries on the hexagrams. Each has its own context and implications which are essential to figuring out what was the original intent of the commentator. However, many folks come to Yi divination as a result of asking a question and finding clear and useful meaning from their literal response to the words of the commentary. Analysis of ancient commentary easily gets confusing when it is mixed with personal reactions to the modern implications of the literal words involved.

Hexagram 62 is always and all ways about the peculiar situation when all focus is solely inside with vast emptiness or isolation everywhere outside. A flying bird is one metaphor for the successful ability to deal with being high up in thin air. So the metaphor for the various lines of this hexagram either managing well with birds or being left behind as the bird soars and the overwrought human falls to their fate. Line 5 represents real success, the prince's arrow strikes the hunted bird. This is the feathered friend metaphor carried through the feathered arrow.

In line 6, the problem of too much inside without relationship or support outside continues, in this case the focus is moving on to what comes next (6th line transition) which magnifies the danger and makes the height of the fall about to be suffered greater, thus the metaphor of the bird being able to fly off while the hex 62 subject is totally tripped up and falling down. The counsel implied by this line is nothing about birds in any way at all. It is all about the extreme need to deal with the inner excess and change focus immediately rather than just blindly charging onward.

Frank

meng · Jan 4, 2010

To step back to line 5 a moment, my understanding is that, being a time of excessive smallness, flinging arrows around isn't likely to be on the wise prince's agenda. I think he'd be content with rooting and gathering, surviving. I don't know literally what the tethered arrow refers to, but they are used for shooting carp, and possibly birds. I also think it could refer to baiting small traps, particularly the kind where a string is tied to a stick holding up one side of a box. In any case, I no longer see this line as being any sort of great accomplishment, such as Wilhelm depicts. Instead, I see the example of someone in a high position adapting modestly to the lean time, which this hexagram represents.

charly · Jan 4, 2010

maremaria said:
"The flying bird leaves him."

Hi all,
Could someone explain me what the "flying bird" symbolize here and what the "him"
I assume that we are not that bird here but the "him" So what could be that bird ?

Thanks
Maria

Dear María:

There isn't HIM in the chinese text. It's a mere supposition of the translator that has to choose among IT, HIM, HER or THEM.

W/B version:

He passes him by, not meeting him.
The flying bird leaves him. Misfortune.
This means bad luck and injury.

W/B in uppercase:

弗fu2: not / NOT
遇yu4: meet with / MEETING
過guo4: mistake // pass over / go across // surpass / excess // to enjoy (1) / to celebrate / [HE] PASSES [HIM] BY
之zhi1: 's / it / him / her / them / HIM

飛fei1: to fly / [THE] FLYING
鳥niao3: bird (2) / BIRD
離li2: to leave / to depart / to go away / from / LEAVES
之zhi1: 's / it / him / her / them / HIM

凶xiong1: fierce / terrible / ominous / MISFORTUNE

是shi4 to be / 謂wei4: speak of / THIS MEANS
災zai1: disaster / calamity / BAD LUCK
眚sheng3: error / cataract of the eye / INJURY

Maybe more literal:

NOT MEETING, PASSING SOMETHING [or SOMEONE]
not meeting something but passig it, mistakenly, by excess
like a lost arrow that doesn't meet its target
like a foolish person (a bird) that forgets his goals

FLYING BIRD LEAVES SOMETHING [or SOMEONE]
the bird that flyes is abandoning something, is deserting from something

OMINOUS
this should be of bad omen

IT'S SAID OF DISASTROUS ERROR
say, a fatal error
a disaster due to lack of vision
due to lose sight of goals or objectives

To use HE / HIM narrows too much the meaning of the text. I believe that there is the possibility that subject or object can be male, female or even things, although maybe abstract concepts.

I believe that, among other things, H.62 is about LOVE. In both spiritual and physical senses. GO LOW can be an advice for not forgeting the physical, not being too much spiritual.

The FLYING BIRD could be a DISLOYAL LOVER. Why not OURSELVES?

Wild translation of some verses from Violeta Parra:

Bird that arrives without known origin and does not know where he goes
is prisoner in his own flight, bad bird he will be ...

Original quote:

Ave que llega sin procedencia y no sabe dónde va
es prisionera en su propio vuelo, ave mala será...
Violeta Parra: Pupila de águila

from: http://www.cancioneros.com/nc/1249/0/pupila-de-aguila-violeta-parra

Moral for girls:

FEED THE BIRD BUT DON'T LET HIM FLY. TAME HIM.

Moral for boys (an advice from ancient China):

FOR ENDLESS PASSION, MAKE THE BIRD EAT BUT DON'T LOSE THE CONTROL

For both genres:

TO BE CAPTIVE OF LOVE IS NOT A BAD THING
FREEDOM IS GOOD, LOVE IS BETTER

DON'T BE A BAD LOVER

Yours,

Charly

___________________________
(1) Another meaning for guo, to indulge oneself in ...

過過 [guo4guo0], v.t., satisfy (one's desires, etc.): 過過煙癮 enjoy a smoke.
Lin Yutang

(2) Another meaning for bird (I'm sorry Trojan):

Male genital organ (var. 屌) *[diao3]: 撮鳥 (MC) a curse word...
Lin Yutang

maremaria · Jan 5, 2010

Frank and Charly, thank you for trying to explain.

The judgment says,

The flying bird brings the message:
It's not well to strive upward,
It's well to remain below.
Great good fortune.”
Here the flying bird seems like a messenger.

And re the lines we find the bird in line 1 then it disappears and appears again in line 6. But here it doesn’t looks like to the Judgment’s bird, does it ?

maremaria · Jan 5, 2010

charly said:
NOT MEETING, PASSING SOMETHING [or SOMEONE]
not meeting something but passig it, mistakenly, by excess
like a lost arrow that doesn't meet its target
like a foolish person (a bird) that forgets his goals

FLYING BIRD LEAVES SOMETHING [or SOMEONE]
the bird that flyes is abandoning something, is deserting from something

OMINOUS
this should be of bad omen

IT'S SAID OF DISASTROUS ERROR
say, a fatal error
a disaster due to lack of vision
due to lose sight of goals or objectives

that fits with what lise said about "leaving" is the name of Hex 30

Trojina · Jan 5, 2010

charly said:
___________________________
(1) Another meaning for guo, to indulge oneself in ...

(2) Another meaning for bird (I'm sorry Trojan):

No ! Charly I can't take it anymore ! The flying bird is not a penis ! :rofl:

I am literally falling around in my chair laughing.....no offence intended...i mean I can't help it...i can never think of 62.6 in the same way again..

shouldn't someone censor Charly :rofl:

(just kidding Charly)

maremaria · Jan 5, 2010

Sorry for insisting with the bird –thing :bag: but I have a reading full of birds and don’t know not yet what to make of it.

.... or them, lol

Trojina · Jan 5, 2010

maremaria said:
Sorry for insisting with the bird –thing :bag: but I have a reading full of birds and don’t know not yet what to make of it. .... or them, lol

I think the birds need talking about

meng · Jan 5, 2010

maremaria said:
Sorry for insisting with the bird –thing :bag: but I have a reading full of birds and don’t know not yet what to make of it. .... or them, lol

The bird is a central metaphor in 62. We do the morphing there and back to humanland. Hopefully with a lesson or example to follow.

This thread has been helpful to me. I'm still working through that scorpion ass kicking I got, and tenaciously receiving 62 as an answer to it. This thread has helped to further sort it out. Or at least see it in a different way than I had in the past. Though there was this sort of tension or conflict between big and little, in 62 for a long time. The small was always obvious, but what I began to notice was how it sometimes seemed connected with a sensational event. I hadn't much considered thunder resounding off the mountains, nor being made to feel very small next to something so big.

I think the word "small" in 62 is most misleading, because it isn't just small, it's exceedingly small, small to the extreme. And anything extreme feels dramatic. Take Alice down the rabbit hole, for example. She takes a pill to make her small enough to walk around in a quantum field. That, in a sense, is what 62 seems like to me. Often there's this sense of "what does this really mean?" to a simple ordinary coincidence. One interpretation could be "oh, it's nothing big, don't give it another thought." Another, and this is the haunting one, says "there's something big here!" Thunder resounding off the mountain... that's not a small image.

Take mourning. The sage exceeds in mourning. But what does that mean? I think it means giving up a portion of your own well being and good fortune and happiness, for a time. I don't think it can be measured by how much was spent on a funeral, or how many people attended. It's measured by the hearts of those who mourn. So to exceed in mourning is to exceed in sorrow. That's no small thing.

charly · Jan 5, 2010

trojan said:
No ! Charly I can't take it anymore ! The flying bird is not a penis ! I am literally falling around in my chair laughing.....no offence intended...i mean I can't help it...i can never think of 62.6 in the same way again..

shouldn't someone censor Charly

(just kidding Charly)

Trojan:

Maybe it makes you laugh but men speak so everywhere, even in China. But I wasn´t speaking about sex but about love, which is more inclusive.

Among other sorts of bird, there is the Sweet Bird of Youth, it have a woman face, as you can see:

From: http://bookcoverarchive.com/book/sweet_bird_of_youth

Yours,

Charly

charly · Jan 5, 2010

meng said:
The bird is a central metaphor in 62. ...

Take mourning. The sage exceeds in mourning. But what does that mean? I think it means giving up a portion of your own well being and good fortune and happiness, for a time. I don't think it can be measured by how much was spent on a funeral, or how many people attended. It's measured by the hearts of those who mourn. So to exceed in mourning is to exceed in sorrow. That's no small thing.

Bruce:

I have the feeling that TO EXCEED is not the proper sense of 過 GUO, maybe fits better TO PASS THROUGH, say, quite the opposite DO NOT EXCEED IN MOURNING, PASS THROUGH IT, be measured, for your own well being and for the others that deppends on you.

There is a connection beteewn the SMALL / LITTLE with the BIRD because chinese writers say that 小 xiǎo = small / little has the shape of a little bird, of course, different people can see different things.

It reminds me that JUN ZI means almost literally LITTLE PRINCE and that XIAO XIANG does not only mean LITTLE IMAGE but also LITTLE ELEPHANT:

Grown-ups never understand anything by themselves, and it is tiresome for children to be always and forever explaining things to them.
St.Exupery: The Little Prince
From: http://www.spiritual.com.au/articles/prince/PrinceCh1.htm

Of course, LITTLE also means BIG or GREAT. Think that a bird that can be little for you can be big for a worm. All is relative. Don´t worry.

Yours,

Charly

charly · Jan 5, 2010

maremaria said:
Sorry for insisting with the bird –thing :bag: but I have a reading full of birds and don’t know not yet what to make of it. .... or them, lol

Hi, Maria:

Another take. BIRDS were always said messengers of good or bad OMENS. A bird of bad omen is somebody trying to warn us about things that we prefer to ignore. Say. BIRD can stand for DIVINER.

The YI is, among other things, a book of advice for DIVINERS (1).

Not meeting with the necessities of the consultants is to be like a flying bird that leaves behind what is the most important for him, his reason of being. Horrible.

This should be a fatal error, a mistake caused by lack of foresigh.

Thus don´t forecast things that cannot be accepted. Diviners that restrain themselves remain healthy and live much. Diviners that do not might lose even the head. Don´t exceed in smartness, mantain low profile.

Now, I´m curious, what sort of birds are there in your readings?

Yours,

Charly

_____________________________________
(1) a B2B BOOK, a business to business book, a book composed, even maybe written, by diviners for the use of another diviners or posterity.

charly · Jan 5, 2010

Another sort of bird, THE BIRD OF FAITH:

鳥 This is simply the word for bird in Chinese, Japanese Kanji, and old Korean Hanja.
This character can also mean fowl, poultry, cock or chicken.

«Faith is the bird that feels the light when the dawn is still dark»
[it´s said a quote from R.Tagore]

From: Oriental Outpost
at: http://www.orientaloutpost.com/shufa.php?q=bird

meng · Jan 5, 2010

Charly, your feeling aside, Guo4 includes: to go beyond, go past, exceed, surpass, exceptional, too much, beyond, extraordinary, to excess. It also means pass over, trespass or transgress. I don't think the meanings in this case are necessarily exclusive.

meng · Jan 5, 2010

I'm gonna summerize how I see 62.

62 is like one of the survivor reality TV shows, where a skilled survivor is placed into the wilderness with nothing but his wits and a couple of simple tools. Suddenly he is very, very small, in a vast and transitory place. Death is a wrong step away, and running, jumping or shouting is a dumb thing to do. Steps are measured carefully, and wood for a night fire is thought of and gathered during daylight. Precautions to ration water are essential, and he is not above turning over logs to forge for his dinner. Above all, he stays aware of every detail around him and in him, and draws as little attention to himself as possible.

rosada · Jan 5, 2010

Rodaki, thank you for that story of the Argonauts! The idea of the stern of the boat getting smashed by the rocks sort of mirrors our up coming 63.1 line about the little fox getting it's tail wet.

I think I agree with you Bruce, line 62.5 should probably not lead one to expect something huge, but I still think it portends something of significance. In my own experience an old friend returned my phone call the day we were focusing on 62.5. I've only spoken to this lady a few times in the last couple of years. This time we've made plans to get together. So not a huge reunion, but a little connection that could lead to something more. Maybe this is the idea, to recognize that life is created by stringing together these Small Details.

Similarly 62.6 brought a phone call where the connection did not happen. Yesterday there was a message on my answer machine that was obviously a wrong number but the caller did not leave a return number so I was not able to call back and let him know his message didn't get through.

It occurs to me with all this talk of birds and penises, couldn't something be made of the line "The prince shoots and his him who is in the cave."? Doesn't that sound like the sperm being ejaculated and finding it's way into "the cave" and fertilizing the egg? Maybe this sense of being alone that Frank refers to is about the seeker coming to earth in hexagram 3, realizing he needs helpers and finally recognizing the only way he's going to get the help he needs is to bring in one of the ancestors, that is to impregnate one of the earthlings in hopes of bringing in - giving a body to - some spirit that he needs to have help him. Finally at 62.5 he does indeed impregnate someone. Not a huge happening, a tiny sperm, a tiny egg, but when these two details connect a whole new universe is created...

Thoughts on the individual lines:
62.1 Stay close to what you know to be true.
62.2 Seek out advisors you feel you can trust.
62.3 But remember anything you say can and will be used against you.
62.4 So don't reveal to much without getting feedback.
62.5 Connection!
62.6 Stop now. Don't strive for perfection. Know when good enough is good enough.

I think of how fairy tales often end with, "They got married and lived happily ever after." That sounds like 62.5.
But we couldn't be content with "Happily ever after" and so we always asked, "What happened next?!" and there were many silly jokes about how miserable Sleeping Beauty actually was coming back to life after a hundred year's sleep and how Repunzel just wanted to sit around brushing her hair all day and thus there really wasn't a happy ending after all. Sounds like 62.6! Maybe the point is there is no ending. Maybe 62.6 should be read "To be continued..."

-Rosada

62. Hsiao Kuo / Preponderance of the Small

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