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62. Hsiao Kuo / Preponderance of the Small

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maremaria

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I have a question re 62 and small things. I understand what Meng says here and it make sense but what is not clear at the moment is the difference between 62 and 9, which is also about small things.

Should be working now, not posting here ( shame on me !!!! :eek:) so I will post more later, but do you see also that those hex (62 and 9) talk about small things or I see it wrong ?

Maria
 
M

meng

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I think it's an awkward (but understandable) comparison. They're just two different things.

62
xiao3 small
guo4 exceed

9
xiao3 small
chu4 care for

They're both small, but the action of 62 is to remain below the mountains and consider the valley, while the action of 9 is to grow, nurture and manage our sustenance.

Ever notice how a small thing can create a large effect? Thunder reverberating off the mountains in the valley seems extreme. Or like throwing a small pebble in a calm pond, its rings reach far and wider than the stone itself. 62

Ever notice how large dreams and ambitions go nowhere unless we go on tending daily to the details, such as eating and sleeping safely? 9
 
M

maremaria

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I will understand.... :eek: need to read the texts again . Perhaps 9 is about the small details . But i don't want to hijack this tread. Thanks Meng. :)
 

frank_r

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62 also makes me think of the whole quantum world.

Bruce, That's a very nice metaphor.

62 has two yang lines in the middle. The lines of the heart and kidney are yang. From the centre there is creativity. The deepest level of our humans is active.

It also resembles as a big trigram water. From water life is starting. It is during wintertime that the yang begins to grow. In a few days there is this big change of the growing of yang. The enantiodromia effect of yin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enantiodromia

62 is the end and also a new beginning. Comming into 63 and 64 , the cosmick hexagrams we go back to the base again. But before we do we see what we have learned from the last cycle.
In that way is the end of 2009 also looking back on the first 10 years of this millenium.

Also when we look to the trigrams mountain and thunder. In the King Wen sequence mountain is the ending of the year, and thunder the beginning. And in the Fu shi sequence Thunder stands on the place of mountain. So mountain has the backup power of thunder.

This makes the transitional state ongoing and with feeling our inner mountain(comming to the top of a old situation) we also feel that a next step is a new begin, thunder.
28 the hexagram of death is also the nucleur hexagram of 62.

Frank
 

ravenstar

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Bruce, That's a very nice metaphor.

62 has two yang lines in the middle. The lines of the heart and kidney are yang. From the centre there is creativity. The deepest level of our humans is active.

It also resembles as a big trigram water. From water life is starting. It is during wintertime that the yang begins to grow. In a few days there is this big change of the growing of yang. The enantiodromia effect of yin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enantiodromia

62 is the end and also a new beginning. Comming into 63 and 64 , the cosmick hexagrams we go back to the base again. But before we do we see what we have learned from the last cycle.
In that way is the end of 2009 also looking back on the first 10 years of this millenium.

Also when we look to the trigrams mountain and thunder. In the King Wen sequence mountain is the ending of the year, and thunder the beginning. And in the Fu shi sequence Thunder stands on the place of mountain. So mountain has the backup power of thunder.

This makes the transitional state ongoing and with feeling our inner mountain(comming to the top of a old situation) we also feel that a next step is a new begin, thunder.
28 the hexagram of death is also the nucleur hexagram of 62.

Frank

Hello Frank :)

I was wondering if we could look at 'preponderance' with the 'Triple heater meridian'

Here is a clip about it from this site.... http://www.daan.com/history/yinyang.htm

"Triple burner
The triple burner is a organ without an exact location. It is the relationship between the water organs--particularly the lungs, spleen, kidneys, small intestine, and bladder. Because fire is required to harness and control water, the triple burner is required to regulate the flow of water throughout the body. The body itself is divided into "burners." The upper burner is the "mist"--that is the head and chest, as well as the heart and lungs. The middle burner is the "foam"-- the area of the body below the chest but above the navel, such as the stomach and spleen, that churns away at food. The lower burner is the "swamp"--the area below the navel, including the kidneys, small and large intestines, and bladder that remove impure substances from the body. "


Many TCM texts refer to the Triple Heater/Burner as mainly fluid/water and yet this meridian is yang and consists of three separate 'burners', the first located in the chest, the second between the diaphragm and the third in the lower abdomen. When balanced these areas should have the same touch temperature. But when out of balance wouldn't this create a heave-ho affect (rapids/emotions) in the chest/abdominal area and belly button area?

I've read that this meridian affects the efficiency of the other 'eleven' meridians. Does it not have a 'defensive' function too, a strengthening from the inside.....breath reaches to the inside, protecting the body against injury.......sparkhawks card at the beginning of this hexagram seems to come to mind.

ravenstar
 

rosada

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THE LINES

Six at the beginning means:
The bird meets with misfortune through flying.

A bird ought to remain in the nest until it is fledged. If it tries to fly before this, it invites misfortune. Extraordinary measures should be resorted to only when all else fails. At first we ought to put up with traditional ways as long as possible, otherwise we exhaust ourselves and our energy and still achieve nothing.
-Wilhelm
 

rodaki

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not much on 62.1 but was thinking . .

so far talk about 62 has been on how a small thing can have big consequences (or repercussions as Rosada described it in 'shared readings', the butterfly/ripple effect that Bruce and Frank talked about)

but maybe this could also work the other way round, like making a mountain out of a molehill . . . these days we have my flatmate's sister with her husband and their son visiting for the holidays and their baby boy has just learned how to walk so he is running around the house . . sometimes he falls without really hurting himself, but his cries are as loud as if he did :)eek:) It's really not that serious but he keeps the rest of us on our toes . . :D

wondering whether this could be another side of 62 . .
 
M

meng

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I think anything which makes you small, that you give thought to, can fit in a size 62.
 

Trojina

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not much on 62.1 but was thinking . .

so far talk about 62 has been on how a small thing can have big consequences (or repercussions as Rosada described it in 'shared readings', the butterfly/ripple effect that Bruce and Frank talked about)

but maybe this could also work the other way round, like making a mountain out of a molehill . . . these days we have my flatmate's sister with her husband and their son visiting for the holidays and their baby boy has just learned how to walk so he is running around the house . . sometimes he falls without really hurting himself, but his cries are as loud as if he did :)eek:) It's really not that serious but he keeps the rest of us on our toes . . :D

wondering whether this could be another side of 62 . .

yes definately, I've taken it that way a number of times. 'keeping it small' as in minimizing the proportion of a problem/reaction..
 
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rosada

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"Keep It Small"
Brilliant!
A tiny token can be life changing - like a diamond ring.
But also as Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"!
-r
 

rosada

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THE LINES

Six at the beginning:

a) The bird meets with misfortune through flying.

b) ""The bird meets with misfortune through flying."
Here there is nothing to be done.

This line is in the lowest place in the trigram Ken, mountain. It ought to keep still, but since there is a secret relationship between it and the nine in the fourth place, it will not suffer restraint, but seeks to soar like a flying bird. But in doing so it willfully endangers itself; for if a bird flies up when it is time for it to keep still, it is sure to fall into the hands of the hunter.
-Wilhelm
 
M

maremaria

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Here , those who can predict weather, usually older people, when the see birds stay low, they say that a bad weather conditions are coming.

Wilhelm says, “The flying bird brings the message” And thunder is Heaven voice, so what if you assume that the bird is something like a messenger that tries to warn us that if we go beyond some limits it’s a dangerous think to do.

Wonder if the stay low here , is stay close don’t go farther. When its time to mourn, exceed, stay there and mourn, when its time to safe money exceed to thrift. My impression and/or my confusion:eek:, is that 62 has not to do with details or small things but more with stay closer to what times asks because if you cross that line things are dangerous. I hear more about be cautious. Perhaps it a time when port authorities don’t let ships depart because a storm is coming.
Could be 62 says "Stay close to the port, its safer for the time being" ?

Are those assumptions wrong ?
 
M

maremaria

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62 is the end and also a new beginning. Comming into 63 and 64 , the cosmick hexagrams we go back to the base again. But before we do we see what we have learned from the last cycle.
In that way is the end of 2009 also looking back on the first 10 years of this millenium.

Also when we look to the trigrams mountain and thunder. In the King Wen sequence mountain is the ending of the year, and thunder the beginning. And in the Fu shi sequence Thunder stands on the place of mountain. So mountain has the backup power of thunder.

This makes the transitional state ongoing and with feeling our inner mountain(comming to the top of a old situation) we also feel that a next step is a new begin, thunder.
28 the hexagram of death is also the nucleur hexagram of 62.

Frank

That is interesting Frank, Richmond talks about new beginning too but the way you explain it to me is more clear. Thanks.

Does line 1 describes the landscape of the situation, that its no time to fly now, even if you feel ready to fly. Like our inner need doesn't can be expressed because or external situation ?
 

my_key

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Frank and Ravenstar......It's so good to read your contributions again. Welcome back both.
Now some thoughts on 62.1
In hex 61 we have from Wilhelm
The character of fu ("truth") is actually the picture of a bird's foot over a fledgling. It suggests the idea of brooding. An egg is hollow. The light-giving power must work to quicken it from outside, but there must be a germ of life within, if life is to be awakened.
And the in 62
The flying bird brings the message:
It is not well to strive upward,
It is well to remain below.
And here we sit in 62.1
The bird meets with misfortune through flying.
So if we follow the process we are a young bird being held down. As we step out of 61 the hold of the birds foot is loosened, we believe we have the ability to fly and we are rash enough to want to try to fly, but we attempt this too early - we are not ready, not fully fledged.
Our inner abilities are being strengthened, however we have to stick with what we know for now...... there is too much resistance in all those around us to accepting the change that is now within us. There is need for a time of mellowing.

We have the ability, but it needs a bit more secret polishing before it can really shine. Hence in the fan yao of 55.1 - the abundance is there but we have a few things to learn about the connection to it first, before we can venture forth and flap our magnificent wings.

Mike
 

rosada

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Hadn't heard that thought before Mike, that 62.1 could indicate some surrounding resistance. Good point.

I made it back to Washington okay. My daughter-in-law gave me a lovely thank you note to read on the plane. It gave me something to focus on so I didn't have to think about the wider reality, that I was leaving. So Focusing on The Small.
Been home for a couple of days yet but haven't left the house. I'm wanting to stabilize before jumping back into the swing of things. Could that be 62.1? Like I've Seen The Inner Truth (aka. Grandchild) and I don't want to lose touch with the feeling.

-r
 

ravenstar

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Frank and Ravenstar......It's so good to read your contributions again. Welcome back both.
Now some thoughts on 62.1
In hex 61 we have from Wilhelm And the in 62
And here we sit in 62.1
So if we follow the process we are a young bird being held down. As we step out of 61 the hold of the birds foot is loosened, we believe we have the ability to fly and we are rash enough to want to try to fly, but we attempt this too early - we are not ready, not fully fledged.
Our inner abilities are being strengthened, however we have to stick with what we know for now...... there is too much resistance in all those around us to accepting the change that is now within us. There is need for a time of mellowing.

We have the ability, but it needs a bit more secret polishing before it can really shine. Hence in the fan yao of 55.1 - the abundance is there but we have a few things to learn about the connection to it first, before we can venture forth and flap our magnificent wings.

Mike

Hi Mike and maremaria,

I read both your posts with great interest. maremaria spoke of stay near, stay close and she spoke of mourning. Is this mourning a feeling of being stuck, nothing's happening, a feeling of depression or anxiety that seems to paralzye our ability to make a decision. Is this paralysis an outgrowth of limited thinking, old conditioning or even self criticism?

And Mike you talk of being held down. Does the paralysis work for this too? And/or could this be because we've 'seen' a new direction but still don't know where we're headed? And if we don't have a clear sense of where we're going could it be from looking too far ahead?

For both these instances are we to step back and take care of what needs attention at the moment but keep our vision just above the landscape? That way we can make decisions as more ideas roll in?

Is this also possibly a time not to panic? Perhaps we're thinking of changing direction cause what we wanted to do doesn't seem to be working? Is it because our expectations are too high and we need to slow down and flow with the natural rate of change? In

We are of course changing moment by moment but it's so gradual we don't even notice it. Then one day from sources unknown our inborn purpose wakes up, suddenly we're 40 not 20.....how did all those years go by?

To cut this short, we are driven by some unknown force to 'find a new home'. The old onr isn't working for us anymore....but change is gradual, we have to remain focused and steadfast, then we will see the synchronicities guiding us step by step on the path.

ravenstar
 

rosada

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I think the mourning isn't about being stuck but simply about that at this point that is what is right to do. To try to do anything else at a time of mourning would be like going out in a hurricane. You've got to stay in the still calm eye of the storm or you'll be ripped apart, in this case by your own mind. Like Scarlet O'Hara saying, "I shall think about it tomorrow. I'll go mad if I think about it today."

I think you've hit on something here about staying quiet and seeing syncronicities, ravenstar. I am back in my isolated mountain cabin now after 6 months in the big city. I am recognizing the same dramas of the city manifesting here in the woods only now instead of street people we have deer coming up to our porch.

-r
 

rosada

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62.2
0 Six in the second place means:

She passes by her ancestor
And meets her ancestress.
He does not reach his prince
And meets the official.

Two exceptional situations are instanced here. In the temple of ancestors, where alternation of generations prevails, the grandson stands on the same side as the grandfather. Hence his closest relations are with the grandfather. The present line designates the grandson's wife, who during the sacrifice passes by the ancestor and goes toward the ancestress. This unusual behavior is however, an expression of her modesty. She ventures rather to approach the ancestress, for she feels related to her by their common sex. Hence here deviation from the rule is not a mistake.
Another image is that of the official who, in compliance with regulation, first seeks an audience with his prince. If he is not successful in this, he does not try to force anything but goes about conscientious fulfillment of his duty, taking his place among the other officials. This extraordinary restraint is like wise not a mistake in exceptional times. (The rule is that every official should first have an audience with the prince by whom he is appointed. Here the appointment is by the minister.)
-Wilhelm
 

my_key

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And Mike you talk of being held down. Does the paralysis work for this too? And/or could this be because we've 'seen' a new direction but still don't know where we're headed? And if we don't have a clear sense of where we're going could it be from looking too far ahead?

For both these instances are we to step back and take care of what needs attention at the moment but keep our vision just above the landscape? That way we can make decisions as more ideas roll in?

Is this also possibly a time not to panic? Perhaps we're thinking of changing direction cause what we wanted to do doesn't seem to be working? Is it because our expectations are too high and we need to slow down and flow with the natural rate of change?

Hi Ravenstar
I would agree that there is certainly a need for a clear intent as we row our boat down the stream. The preponderance of the small (people, issues, chaos etc) could well include inner gremlins as well as external ones. There is almost a clearing of the tubes taking place that will unblock the plumbing. Overly overt focus on the visions of the brave new world could well add to any negative aspects of the situation and the circumstances that arise. Keeping your head down and your eyes and senses peeled is a great way to approach this.....firm in the intent of accepting the new while not too set on all the detail. Let it come and wash off the hull of the boat. Row Row Row your boat gently down the stream and as you say whatever you do DONT PANIC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR6wok7g7do&NR=1:)

Mike
 

elvis

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The emotional focus for 62 is on a particular emotional state that when communicated elicits the sense of loyalty issues etc covered. The particular form is a context of grief/suffering - a sense of LOSS - in which is operating an emotion covering enlightenment and the focus on surprise, the new, sudden etc. The emergence of the focus on the new in a context of a loss (be it current or pending) indicates a focus on either we take the loss OR we re-invent what is being lost - this covers, for example, traditions that can lose their 'best before' and either they get dropped OR go through some form of refurbishment. The refurbishment element covers issues of loyalty to that tradition where rather than lose it we re-invent it and so stay loyal to it.

Line position 2 covers influences of hexagram 07(13) and a focus on containment that includes association with 'like mindedness' that can extend into general likeness including genetic relationships. Thus the generic influence brings out a containment property at work - an issue of 'us' vs 'them' and a play with the emotion of rejection/rejecting (and the protective aspect of such).

Thus the RESPONSE to a situation of 62 is described as a shift of focus from what is possible to what is/will be - a shift to commitment (and so still covering the theme of loyalty issues).
 

frank_r

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Hello Frank :)

I was wondering if we could look at 'preponderance' with the 'Triple heater meridian'

Here is a clip about it from this site.... http://www.daan.com/history/yinyang.htm

"Triple burner
The triple burner is a organ without an exact location. It is the relationship between the water organs--particularly the lungs, spleen, kidneys, small intestine, and bladder. Because fire is required to harness and control water, the triple burner is required to regulate the flow of water throughout the body. The body itself is divided into "burners." The upper burner is the "mist"--that is the head and chest, as well as the heart and lungs. The middle burner is the "foam"-- the area of the body below the chest but above the navel, such as the stomach and spleen, that churns away at food. The lower burner is the "swamp"--the area below the navel, including the kidneys, small and large intestines, and bladder that remove impure substances from the body. "


Many TCM texts refer to the Triple Heater/Burner as mainly fluid/water and yet this meridian is yang and consists of three separate 'burners', the first located in the chest, the second between the diaphragm and the third in the lower abdomen. When balanced these areas should have the same touch temperature. But when out of balance wouldn't this create a heave-ho affect (rapids/emotions) in the chest/abdominal area and belly button area?

I've read that this meridian affects the efficiency of the other 'eleven' meridians. Does it not have a 'defensive' function too, a strengthening from the inside.....breath reaches to the inside, protecting the body against injury.......sparkhawks card at the beginning of this hexagram seems to come to mind.

ravenstar

Hallo Janine,

Yes, welcome back has a been some time ago that we heared of you. Good to hear from you.

About the Triple Heater energy, yes I understand the link, especially the idea that something very small cann be very big.
That's the same with the triple warmer energy. This energy that flows through our system is the connection with the univers. It is as a trigram, a Heaven, Earth and Man level.
This triple heater(like a trigram), you can apply to every level. For instance your head, you can divide in three. Above the point between the eyes (upper), between the eyes/eyebrows till the space between nose and lip(middle) and the space half the lip till the chin(lower).
But the upper part you can divide in upper,middle and lower. And this can go on and on. This is the idea of infinity.

The space between the parts is getting smaller and smaller, but the process itself is infinite therefore as big as the universe.

The triple warmer energy is responsible for the water ways in the human body. And not in water as being the fluid itself but more in the idea of flowing. More the middle line of trigram water. The middle lines of 62(the lines of the kidney and heart)

What is also very interesting about the triple heater is that all energy is beginning there.
All the other energies and meridians get there energy from this source. In that way the triple warmer is the source of the source.

Some triple heater points I often use are; triple heater 4 -yang chi -yang pool. This point is the source point of the triple heater. It gives people new energy from the source. For instance when they are very tired and don't feel connection with live anymore.

another point is triple heater 5 - wai guan - outer pass. this point gives you a connection with your environment. When you have the feeling that you are alone in the world. When you have no connection with other people anymore. It one of the yangest points in your body, it gives you a connection with infinity-the univers again.
This point is opposite of pericard 5 -nei guan- inner pass. This point that makes you aware of your ego. The energy that you need to live this moment.

Frank
 

ravenstar

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Hi Frank,

I know I sent that little message so and so thanks you, but it doesn't help much when you really do want to thank someone for their knowledge.

frank_r said:
About the Triple Heater energy, yes I understand the link, especially the idea that something very small cann be very big.

I thought those very words after I had written and sent my message!! I hoped you'd get the metaphor and you did!!!

frank_r said:
What is also very interesting about the triple heater is that all energy is beginning there

Yes, I have heard in many illnesses the triple heater is involved. I found this website with a picture of this meridian. Interesting how they show all the points and areas that are afflicted. http://www.yinyanghouse.com/acupuncturepoints/tripleheater_meridian_graphic it will definitely show others just how 'small' this meridian is and as you have expressed, its importance.

frank_r said:
Some triple heater points I often use are; triple heater 4 -yang chi -yang pool. This point is the source point of the triple heater. It gives people new energy from the source. For instance when they are very tired and don't feel connection with live anymore.

another point is triple heater 5 - wai guan - outer pass. this point gives you a connection with your environment. When you have the feeling that you are alone in the world. When you have no connection with other people anymore. It one of the yangest points in your body, it gives you a connection with infinity-the univers again.
This point is opposite of pericard 5 -nei guan- inner pass. This point that makes you aware of your ego. The energy that you need to live this moment.

I will have to look these points up in reference to TCM. I'd like to learn where exactly on this meridian they are located.

Thank you very much Frank.

ravenstar :bows:
 
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ravenstar

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As I continue to contemplate 62.2, its energy seems to coincide with the Moon in Cancer. The moon is said to rule the 'inner person' and when in Cancer, our reactions to people and places are very strong and this is taken into account with any decision we make. Security is gained through nurturing and traditions such as home and family.

These peoples feelings are extremely sensitive, and Moon in Cancer people are able to adopt a kind of protective coloring from the people and places they hang around with. They also love their home and their ancestry.

Another thing about Moon in Cancer, is these people have a way of unintentionally projecting themselves into the public eye. Something they really recoil from cause they always seem to get drawn into controversies and disputes that attract a lot of attention. These people are extremely sensitive, passive and impressionable....they are easily influenced and dominated by others.

It is recommended that Moon in Cancer people go with the ebb and flow of life, kind of like Mike's boat so as not to let their emotions govern them. They also need to withdraw from life from time to time to recharge their batteries and not allow exhaustion to overcome them or others.

I could go on but just wanted to know if others saw this connection too?

ravenstar
 

rosada

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62.2
O Six in the second place:

a) She passes her ancestor
And meets her ancestress.
He does not reach his prince
And meets the official.
No blame.

b) "He does not reach his prince." The official should not wish to surpass (the prince).

The nine in the third place is the father, the nine in the fourth place is the grandfather, the six in the fifth place the grandmother. Congruity relates the present line to the six in the fifth place. But because it is presupposed in this hexagram that the small passes by and surmounts the great, and because furthermore the six in the fifth place is the ruler of the hexagram, the image of the ancestress is chosen. In another aspect, the present line represents an official who does not surpass the yielding prince, the six in the fifth place, because he himself is yielding in nature. In the nine in the third place he meets with an official with whom he is united through the relationship of holding together.
-Wilhelm
 

rosada

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Moon in Cancer brings to mind ideas about family and how we all play many roles. 62.2 emphasizes the importance of finding the person you feel you can be your most natural self around. So yes, I can appreciate how you might file those ideas next to each other.
Earlier in this thread Martin posted ideas about the I Ching and Tarot cards. That we are discussing I Ching/astrological associations now makes me think Martin is conscious of us tonight.
Back at hexagram 7 we dedicated this study to our loved ones who had passed on. Nice to remember them here.

-r.
 
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rosada

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Someone sent me a picture of Mother Teresa today with what seems like a quote suitable for hexagram 62:

"In this life we cannot do great things.
"We can only do small things with great love."
-Mother Teresa
 

rosada

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62.3
Nine in the third place means:
If one is not extremely careful,
Somebody may come up from behind and strike him.
Misfortune.

-Wilhelm
 

rosada

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In an effort to memorize the hexagrams, I find it useful to note how one line appears to be the opposite of the one before:

62.1
Put up with traditional ways. {But when traditional ways no longer serve then...}

62.2
Deviation from the rule is not a mistake. {But ignoring conventional wisdom entirely can be a problem 'cause..}

62.3
This self-confidence deludes. {Ultimately leading to a fall from grace which might cause you to give up and simply...}

62.4
Make no attempt of one's own initiative to reach the desired end. {But just cause you don't act, you can still..}

62.5
Seek out helpers...then the exceptional task is carried out in spite of all difficulties. {However,
even though when everyone does their bit it is possible to carry out exceptional tasks, still it is important not to aim too high, it's important to..}

62.6..know how to call a halt.
-Wilhelm

-rosada
 
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rosada

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62.3 cont.
At certain times extraordinary caution is absolutely necessary. But it is just in such life situations that we find upright and strong personalities who, conscious of being in the right, distain to hold themselves on guard, because they consider it petty. Instead, they go their way proud and unconcerned, But this self-confidence deludes them. There are dangers lurking for which they are unprepared. Yet such danger is not unavoidable; one can escape it if he understands that the time demands that he pay especial attention to small and insignificant things.
-Wilhellm
 

rosada

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62.3
I was doing some Sudoku puzzles this morning and having a lucky streak. In fact I was flying high and doing so well I didn't bother to check my answers as carefully as usual. Of course just as I finished I discovered an error had snuck in and ruined the whole effort. :duh:
-rosada
 

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