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Please Help: I Don’t Understand the Reason Behind 5 uc in My Situation

marybluesky

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I left the parental house at summer and rented an apartment, as many of you know. I tried to make best of my newly found independence but couldn't.

The burden of loneliness is very heavy there, I couldn't make friends who regularly come and go. I admit that such an extent of solitude sounds abnormal to me, I can't get used to it contrary to a few friends of mine. It intensified my bad habits such as smoking- before, I smoked thrice a week and enjoyed it; now I smoke thrice a day without pleasure, it's turning to a real addiction. I have sleep problems & poor apatite in my apartment, while these problems disappear when I stay at my parental house: I eat and sleep well, and even don't think about smoking. Now I remember the apartment with cold, dark nights of crying and anxiety over problems in my life without any relief.

I moved out because I thought I should; that it’s not good at my age to live with my family anymore, but as you see, it has caused me more evil than good. Obviously staying in my apartment is harmful to my mental health. That said, I haven’t been there for about two weeks, and I have no desire to come back. Let they call me overly codependent or immature, I can’t love that gloomy den.



I asked “Should I Terminate my Lease and Return to Parental House?” and got 5uc. Wait.

The hexagram doesn’t puzzle me, but I wonder what’s the logic behind it in my situation. I had asked similar questions on the topic before, and got 5 & 48 a lot as the main or secondary hexagram; for instance, I remember getting 5.1> 48: persevere; or 48.3>28: the water is there but isn’t used.

As I said, I wanted to form a social life and enjoy my space beside others. I wasn’t successful, though. As for the parental house, I loved it often until the last year when some problems disturbed its good atmosphere. On the other hand, I started to dream about moving out as soon as 17. Living with your family isn't always easy, but for me, at this situation, it feels much better than living alone.

What do you think? I specially ask because I’ve received 5 a lot on the matter.
 
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moss elk

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My 22 year old daughter just got her own apartment. She loves it, but she is having a kind of separation anxiety. When her roommate is out for a few days she 'has to' be around people. So, what you are experiencing may not be uncommon.

The thing with 5 is: we don't always see every blessing that is coming from around the corner.

Once when I was unemployed for a year,
having no luck finding a position,
in exasperation, I asked 'how am I going to find work?" I got 5.6. a week later, stressed, and unable to make sense of it, I asked what should I do? got 5 un.
I started laughing, "fine, I'll just be in a good mood and not worry"
I walked around like a great smiling fool untroubled by anything for a few days.
Within three days the events in 5.6 played out, and it rained on me the job that I've had for 6 years now.

Listen to 5.

(My daughter just got a puppy,
so I think that will help her.)
 
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Trojina

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As I said, I wanted to form a social life and enjoy my space beside others. I wasn’t successful, though.


I think to say 'I wasn't successful though' is mistaken. To think that way would be to think there had to be certain criteria met by a certain date to be 'successful'.

'Oh dear not enough friends = not successful' is mistaken thinking IMO. It also implies that because you believe yourself to be unsuccessful that means you must admit defeat and go back to your parent's home.

I think 5uc is pretty clear. It is telling you to wait, relax and for goodness sake think of your life as a garden that takes it's time to grow things and just because there's no flowers yet doesn't mean the garden should be closed down packed up, labelled 'unsuccessful' with the banner of 'I am unsuccessful' on it's forehead.

It seems to me you have all these measures in your head of what makes a person successful and if they don't meet those it's a disaster and has to be given up. No, Wait.

It was really hard for you to move out, I remember that. There was much resistance by your family, you had to sneak out.


If in time it seems the right decision to go home then think about it then but right now, Yi is very clear that you wait and follow it's advice for waiting, take time to enjoy the little things. All these measures you have in your head panic you into thinking it's all disastrously unsuccessful. Well no it's just hurts and it's lonely but it's worth going through that to find your independence.

But Yi is very very clear indeed now is not the time to act, wait.
 

Trojina

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That said, I haven’t been there for about two weeks, and I have no desire to come back. Let they call me overly codependent or immature, I can’t love that gloomy den.


Hang on where haven't you been for 2 weeks your parent's house or your apartment ?

If you are at your parent's house now then it's still telling you to wait. This is not the time to give up the lease, not when you are at your lowest point.

You don't have to think so drastically, you can stay at your parent's house for a week then go home again. Having one's own space is so important.
 
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Willem D

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Hi marybluesky,

In situations I don't understand the anser that was given, I like to take a look at the trigrams for more insight.
This is a general explanation of hex 5 (at least how I see it) and not a direct answer to your question.

hex. 5 is composed of the inner/lower trigram Heaven and the outer/upper trigram Water.

Legge says about hex. 5:
Legge:Waiting intimates that with sincerity and firmness there will be brilliant success and good fortune. It will be advantageous to cross the great stream.
The sincerity and firmness comes from trigram Heaven. Heaven in the lower position stands for inner motives, structure, laws, inspiration etc. But Heaven is also the intangible, it has no form.
It wants to express itself through the outer trigram ->Water.

"When Water is outer (upper) trigram it lets the qualities of the inner trigram flow into their inherent shape." LiSe

But wait, Heaven as no inherent shape, and Water itself also has no shape, its essential character is streaming. It takes on every shape it flows into.

To me this mean that we have no grip on the situation, we can not controle it.
We have to wait how things will develop, but we know that what will come will be something good because it manifests itself according the laws/structure of Heaven. so, why not have a party in the mean time 🥳


Hope this will help, good luck!
 

marybluesky

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Trojina, by "unsuccessful" I just mean not able to satisfy my needs at a point, not "loser".
IOW, I couldn't find people to spend time with in my apartment and it hurt me. It's not a label. I've been in my parents' house during last two weeks by the way.

Anyway, it feels bad to be at the apartment, and I don't need more bad feelings at this shitty point of my life. I'm unlikely to terminate the lease, but won't try to make the apartment a better place to live either. I've tried enough in the last months.
 
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legume

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sorry to hear things don't seem to turn out as expected. not sure if it's any consolation but i'm kinda in the same (or a similar) boat here, after spending over a month back home around my family (whom i rarely see and didn't have that much time with in probably about a decade until I allowed myself longer holidays recently) I'm now back to my lonely "independence" and feeling ready to return home, back to them asap, seeing no point at all actually in staying where I am.

but hey, Yi said 5, which I usually just take as "hang in there" (for some reason anytime i hear it i see a kitten hanging off a branch in my mind's eye). the time's not ripe. though i get how frustrating this waiting can be and while I do like 5, as it generally does eventually bring whatever you're waiting for, I never paid much attention to the text of the image and don't think of this time as jolly or joyful.

it's more like clenching my teeth and getting on with things until they finally turn out just right. it's also a bit like waiting for rain, or maybe in this case waiting for spring, when everything slowly comes back to life, plans come to fruition and social interactions commence again. maybe it's also to do with the weather easing people out a bit more again soon?

and yeah, nobody said full-on independence, aka being completely on your on is necessarily fun (don't mean to be condescending here, more like half-speaking to myself), but i guess there's value and growth in enduring these moments and possibly it makes the arrival of the awaited (?) spring / rain / insert your personal needs here that much sweeter.

to me 5 is also a gentle reminder sometimes of what i'm actually waiting for. remembering my intention helps to hold on to where i am and what needs or can be done while waiting. and fwiw patience is also a skill and this is apparently a great time for everyone to develop new skills ;)

lastly, maybe it hurts, as that hanging cat or its claws must be hurting, there's this feeling of inevitable fall that I get from 5. but does a falling rain feel bad? and cats always fall on their fours...

re the topic itself, maybe it's also worth asking additional question for yourself about what is this reason for waiting, indeed? all the best and hang in there! sending warm hugs from a cold place.
 
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Willem D

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Hi Legume,
I think there is a difference between what the Yi says and how you interpret what is says.
but hey, Yi said 5, which I usually just take as "hang in there" (for some reason anytime i hear it i see a kitten hanging off a branch in my mind's eye). the time's not ripe.
it's more like clenching my teeth and getting on with things until they finally turn out just right.
Now that is quite negative take on waiting. I don't think that is the kind of waiting the Yi is talking about. It is talking about waiting with the certainty that something good is coming. How can waiting be something negative knowing something good is coming?

The image of a pregnant women comes to mind. She is waiting for here child to be born and at the same time enjoying her pregnancy, knowing something wonderful is going to happen.

Maybe you can ask the Yi why you feel so gloomy while waiting ;) .

Good luck!
 

eyedrian

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You know I had a very similar dilemma a few years ago and I had decided to come back to my parents for the better or worse of it. I certainly would be a different person right now if I decided to stay in my rented apartment because when I returned I was not feeling any better, in fact, I felt worse and had to find a very unconventional method to deal with it.
 
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legume

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How can waiting be something negative knowing something good is coming?

hey Willem, just as I described above by using my clumsy cat metaphor ;) also, I'm not saying the waiting is inherently negative but the feelings associated with it can be that of anxiety for some. it often is for me. is anxiety negative or just is?

5 goes through many stages (well, probably just 6 really), some of them even include actually waiting in mud, blood or a pit that might seemingly consume you, it's not just fun and games unfortunately and definitely not always most comfortable place to be in. but it ends (luckily for Mary possibly with guests! ;)) and that's the important thing to remember.

I think there is a difference between what the Yi says and how you interpret what is says.

can't argue with that :D


and on a completely different note

It intensified my bad habits such as smoking- before, I smoked thrice a week and enjoyed it; now I smoke thrice a day without pleasure, it's turning to a real addiction.

this combined with the strive for independence is very relatable for me and compelled me to post the initial reply. but later also got me thinking, if maybe the more I strive for independence the more other dependencies I create? another totally personal and subjective thought I considered worth sharing 🤷‍♀️

it's something that came out of this thread that I might think about more, so, thank you Mary.

The image of a pregnant women comes to mind. She is waiting for here child to be born and at the same time enjoying her pregnancy, knowing something wonderful is going to happen.

yes... and no woman ever dreads labour. I believe there are better hexes for an image of pregnancy, though from a male's perspective 5 is probably about right.

I guess there's a difference in getting 5 uc when let's say, waiting for a message. you know eventually you'll receive it, then you get a nice boost of happy fuzzy feels from the hex and you go on about your day, maybe a week with a sense of anticipation. or not. you just forget about it and then get happy when you get the text you hoped for.

but when casting 5 for a topic that who knows how long might last then the feeling is more that of "meh" and the anticipation (in my case I probably won't get what I'm currently waiting for until at least next year) is just a tad more painful.

Maybe you can ask the Yi why you feel so gloomy while waiting ;) .

I shall hopefully make equally presumptuous commentary and assume you're Dutch, then blame it the culture and thus take no offense in this questionable straight-forwardness ;)
 
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Willem D

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I shall hopefully make equally presumptuous commentary and assume you're Dutch, then blame it the culture and thus take no offense in this questionable straight-forwardness
Yep I am Dutch and I didn't mean it in a presumptuous way, so it must be the culture :D
 

marybluesky

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legume; your point about developping other dependencies in the sake of indepedence caught my attention: I hadn't looked at the matter from this angle. It's very true. At first I followed my normal lifestyle, then started to overdo the things I did previously in a recreative way, turning them to dependencies.
Now I can see such a behaviour indeed has obvious psychological bases I hadn't notice before.
 
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diamanda

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Every time I got 05 unchanging it meant "wait, do not act at this stage, as something will soon come up which will alter the situation and your decision".
 

Trojina

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this combined with the strive for independence is very relatable for me and compelled me to post the initial reply. but later also got me thinking, if maybe the more I strive for independence the more other dependencies I create? another totally personal and subjective thought I considered worth sharing

It's a good point but also it will be noted in any time of emotional trauma. If one splits up in a relationship that is likely going to mean more drinking/smoking/sleeplessness, that's just how it is. It doesn't mean of course that it's a good idea to get back with the person even if the option is there. If there's a bereavement less healthy behaviours might well resurface, again smoking, sleeplessness, panic.

I wouldn't say reverting to other dependencies in time of emotional trauma is actually creating dependencies they are more like coping strategies.

Let's face it there are many enforced separations and most people are going to be living a less than healthy life style while they are processing that, at least in the early days. They don't choose to end one dependency and then take up others.


Also long term thinking might be a thing with 5. I mean going back to someone for example might feel so much better in the short term but actually 10 years down the line it might not seem such a good decision and one may wish one had made the break before. Also living with family can mean you end up being a care giver full time/live in and then when the parents die you are even more alone because you never learned to be alone and now you are forced to but you're much older. Of course all families are different, all situations different ..........
 
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marybluesky

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Trojina I agree with you on the part about about becoming the caregiver of old parents, that it would be much harder to build your own base when you are old; it was in fact one of the main reasons I decided it would be better to move out sooner rather than later.

On the other hand, the people around me who've been living alone for extended periods of time aren't happy either. Almost all of them are deppressed or addict or both.

Now I ask myself, OK I'm indepedent now, then what? I deliberately chose to go through this emotinal trauma (though I couldn't guess how hard it will be), then what's the reward? Apparantly, my quality of life is worse in my apartment. If I continue to suffer for the sake of independence, what will I earn? Are there really more pros than cons?
 

Olga Super Star

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Mary blue sky,

Please please please hang on to your apartment a bit longer! Yi is never wrong and how you feel is common to many of us nowadays with coronavirus.

For one, I am in the same situation. Have thought about leaving my small apartment since I am not happy there, yet I wait. It’s a weird time, and I may regret it and not find a place of my own at that price in a few months.
Also, you might meet someone soon, who knows.

Also, I might pop my head in your country, we could have tea at your place. I shall make a cake 🤗
 

eyedrian

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I think it's just that if you return, the suffering won't disappear, you'll still have to go through it, but now without the independence
 

marybluesky

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I think it's just that if you return, the suffering won't disappear, you'll still have to go through it, but now without the independence
I don't know and I won't terminate the lease now.
What's obvious, however, is that I sleep & eat well, don't smoke and am happier in my parent's house. By being in that apartment, I sacrifice my joy and health- but for what?
 
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diamanda

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then what's the reward? Apparantly, my quality of life is worse in my apartment. If I continue to suffer for the sake of independence, what will I earn? Are there really more pros than cons?
The reward is that you'll enter adulthood, and if you really put effort into it you'll learn to enjoy your own company. It's not true that everyone who lives alone is unhappy or an addict. And in any case you're still very young, who says that you'll remain living alone for long? You might decide to co-habit with friends, you might find a good partner to live with. There are huge rewards in learning to enjoy your own company and in making yourself the star and centre of your life, so to speak. It will help with everything, in due course, including in finding a decent partner.
 

marybluesky

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It's not true that everyone who lives alone is unhappy or an addict.
Living alone shouldn't be an inherently bad thing, I didn't try hard to do it otherwise.

I just talked about the people I know in person: three men and two women. Among them, two are alcoholics, one is clinically depressed, one has been alcoholic for a while and is very neurotic anyway, and the last one who's the healthiest and the most accomplished of all is a numb woman who has hardly ever been cheerful during the 5-6 years I know her.

Maybe that's because I live in a traditional society where most people leave their parents' house after marriage and even don't think about moving out alone per se, except for studying in another city/country [the number of people living alone has considerably increased in recent year; still it's incomparable with the rate of western countries where moving out is the norm].

So the majority of young people who move out are the ones who experience sever conflicts in the family. In fact they don't decide to start living independently, they just scape. I don't say they can't have a good life. My point is, in such a social context, the number of emotionally disturbed people tends to be high among the ones who live alone. When you try to find roommates you meet mostly these people, as your friends don't want to leave their families to live with you. That said, I didn't even discussed the idea of getting an apartment together with my friends, as I knew no one would accept.
you might find a good partner to live with.
I'm not optimistic about that to be honest, unless I go live with one of the alcoholics I mentioned. And you know I have never been successful in forming romantic relationships.
There are huge rewards in learning to enjoy your own company and in making yourself the star and centre of your life, so to speak.
I enjoyed my own company far more than the average people around me, to the point that they called me the loner: I went- and still go- to the cafes, cinematheques and mountains alone, I didn't chat with co-workers during launch if I didn't enjoy it.
But being alone in that apartment is totally different.
 

Trojina

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Trojina I agree with you on the part about about becoming the caregiver of old parents, that it would be much harder to build your own base when you are old; it was in fact one of the main reasons I decided it would be better to move out sooner rather than later.

On the other hand, the people around me who've been living alone for extended periods of time aren't happy either. Almost all of them are deppressed or addict or both.

Now I ask myself, OK I'm indepedent now, then what? I deliberately chose to go through this emotinal trauma (though I couldn't guess how hard it will be), then what's the reward? Apparantly, my quality of life is worse in my apartment. If I continue to suffer for the sake of independence, what will I earn? Are there really more pros than cons?

I don't know and I won't terminate the lease now.
What's obvious, however, is that I sleep & eat well, don't smoke and am happier in my parent's house. By being in that apartment, I sacrifice my joy and health- but for what?


I'm not here to convince you it's a good idea to keep your apartment on. You had 5uc, you're 30, you desperately wanted out of the parental home. Maybe you should read your old threads to remind yourself why you wanted to get out.


I love living alone, I really don't find it a problem but I do live in a block of flats where having all the people living around me feels quite companionable. Many of us sit and chat in the garden, or on the way in or out and it's a bit of a community. I was certainly glad I was living alone here than in a house in lockdown. But I have lived alone for a long time. I find it a refuge of peace and enjoy coming back very much. Also I don't worry about being alone but then I'm relatively at home in the city I'm in. Also I don't worry about being alone which helps. I do think half the stress of loneliness is actually worrying about being alone, worrying one should have more friends, worrying one should have a partner, worrying that one is weird. The great bonus of aging is you get free of all that.


Where you live alone can have a big impact, a view is always much better for mental health, it's better to have friendly neighbours you feel you could call on if there was an emergency or anything. It can contribute to peace of mind to know there's people around, they don't need to be close buddies, just pleasant.

I really can't imagine living as an adult with one's parents could ever be anything but hell, but that's just me. But also I've seen the harm of stunted growth in people who have never left home. It's one thing to leave and go back to stay or to look after parents but to never have left surely one wouldn't grow.

I think there are probably more addicts in oppressive marriages and family situations than there are for people living alone. No data on that but I know in the UK 1 in 4 adults live alone I think.....(which doesn't help the housing crisis.)

After 6 months or so living alone you still have no idea about what it will become like or how it will change so sort of expecting 'I want it to be proven it's better right now and if it's not better then I'm not doing it unless you people can tell me how it's better' isn't going to work because you then make others sort of responsible for it.


I don't mean that critically, I don't know what you're going through...in the end it's you who knows best though.
 

marybluesky

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Trojina, when I left the house there was a lot of tension, still it wasn't the main reason for leaving, though it made my decision more stubborn.

The main reason was to go through the natural stages of life: leaving the parents' house is what all the beings naturally do at one point. We humans are the rational ones who alter some lows of nature, but it doesn't change the reality that by suppressing the natural needs we get more miserable.

That said, when I made my mind about moving out, many people asked why, for the reasons I explained in my previous post: they don't expect you to leave unless you have really grave problems at home. One of the mentioned people who lives alone really wondered why I wanted to leave.

Then, there is the mentality that it's not safe for a woman to live alone. I didn't give a damn and went my way. I don't live in a friendly block like yours, but I haven't had any special problems either.

I do think half the stress of loneliness is actually worrying about being alone, worrying one should have more friends, worrying one should have a partner, worrying that one is weird. The great bonus of aging is you get free of all that.
It hasn't been the case for me. It just felt bad. Yes I did want contacts, but it wasn't the reason I felt bad.

But also I've seen the harm of stunted growth in people who have never left home.
Me too. I didn't want to be one of them.

I think there are probably more addicts in oppressive marriages and family situations than there are for people living alone.
It can be the case. Anyway I have seen far more troubled people among the ones who grew in dysfunctional families than the ones with divorced parents; so why not?
The thing is, I left home to make a better life but am not happier now, nor are the people I know who are in a similar situation.

After 6 months or so living alone you still have no idea about what it will become like or how it will change so sort of expecting 'I want it to be proven it's better right now and if it's not better then I'm not doing it unless you people can tell me how it's better' isn't going to work because you then make others sort of responsible for it.
No I don't have such a thing in my mind. Believe me, I'm just sharing my thoughts and doubts. I'm just asking myself and others :)
 
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legume

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Let's face it there are many enforced separations and most people are going to be living a less than healthy life style while they are processing that, at least in the early days. They don't choose to end one dependency and then take up others.

I totally agree, the idea that seeking independence creates dependencies was a thought exercise and in relation to 5 I feel the advice really is to just let it be as is for now, without putting any extra pressure on oneself regarding these coping mechanisms - but instead maybe even let one enjoy the smoking and bad habits for a bit. i find it difficult to find the right balance though and can imagine others in similar situation might also worry about the unhealthy lifestyle at times, which only adds to the anxiety.

Where you live alone can have a big impact, a view is always much better for mental health, it's better to have friendly neighbours you feel you could call on if there was an emergency or anything. It can contribute to peace of mind to know there's people around, they don't need to be close buddies, just pleasant.

yup, couldn't agree more. i've been away from home for years (about a 1000 km) but last year moved out of the big city to a much smaller one and then the pandemic hit which made meeting any friends that much harder. thank goodness for the friendly jackdaws, they visit me every day. well, in exchange for walnuts, but, hey, these guys can make some really great company ;)

i'm considering moving back to my native country though, i couldn't live with my family but i feel it's time for me to be closer to be able to help around more. as a side note, i wouldn't exchange those years away from them for anything. with all its pains, being on my own for so long was definitely a journey of self-discovery and growth.
 
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diamanda

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@marybluesky I understand how you feel and how bad it is for now. 05 says wait for a bit. It doesn't say 'keep feeling miserable', it doesn't say 'go back now', just wait for a bit. It must have a reason to tell you to wait and not act right now. I don't know what that reason might be.

I'm also a person who lives alone and happy. It would have also been nice to have a decent partner, but I haven't had this luck in life. So I much prefer alone than with bad company. My home is a place of serenity, peace, and all the things that I like, including my self. I like my neighbours, I have friends, I live in a big city, all of which make a difference. You are not me, however, you're in a different culture, and at a different life stage too. If you wait, the solution to your current issue will become obvious, I hope,
 

Olga Super Star

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I think if it weren’t for the pandemics, things would be different.

So many people have felt bad recently, even after years of living by themselves.
We are social animals and seek the companionship of others.

Sending a big hug 🙂
 

Topher

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as 5.1 suggested tells you to find out if it is really what nourish you you should wait now and see returning would really work for you...
5.2 is whatever you plan to take action do it but keep in mind that as the site above mentiones things were advancing but you only need to wait which leads me to think that you have to condition to the new place and see if you really should end up the contract lease if you dont like how you feel when you have conditioned.

the question you should ask is should I move to a different place? what I have found with iching is when you ask something related to your own desire or need it will end up answering about that matter

i.e think about returning to my parent's home then with including "my paent's home" in the question iching will end up answering for that matter if the question in the first place had no relevance with the "my parent's home"
 

Viru10

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Like a few people have said, I think 5uc is a suggestion to learn how to be alone and comfortable. I don't think it's impossible for you to do. But you may be shedding your identity that is constructed in relation to other people, which can feel like a death. It's not comfortable, but at least (I think) you're not in a solitary confinement. Can you still go hiking, out in nature, etc?

I spent about 6-7 months in a new city alone and without friends or a social life. It was quite a painful experience but I became accustomed to living alone and doing things on my own. Meditation helped as well and I almost preferred living alone at that point. But things changed eventually. That experience helped me prepare for the isolation in this pandemic.

The thing is, I left home to make a better life but am not happier now, nor are the people I know who are in a similar situation.

You probably won't be "happy" immediately. Like I mentioned you may be experiencing ego death, or shedding from your previous identity which may have needed people to feel some sort of inner stability. I think like 5uc says you'll find people gradually but in the meantime it would be worth discovering who you are without people.


Side question- wonder what people think of that cafe au soul website. I used to use it when I first started using the I-Ching. It's the one of the only place that provides unchanging hexagram commentaries that are condensed but I get the impression she reads Clarity's threads for her unchanging commentary. Some stuff is interesting but it often misses the mark I think.
 

Clarity,
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