A 64 cards I Ching deck

remod · Jan 4, 2023

Not being entirely sane

, I decided to undertake a major project and create a full deck with 64 cards, one for each hexagram.

I never really used those decks (I own a couple of them) as, for how beautiful the images might be, the lack of a proper way to generate moving lines always put me off. I now devised a somewhat good method to generate a heaxagram and his moving line so I thought that I could create a deck that one could use either by picking a single card and looking at it (i.e. no moving line) or could use by picking 6 cards and properly form a hexagram with moving lines (probabilities are close to the three coins method).

The idea is to create the image based on the hexagram overall image and add the text of the judgment.

For example the card below is for the hexagram 3, The Difficulty. I based the image on the translation by Bradford Hatcher where it translates: "sorting warp from weft"; the young girl is seriously intent at a task which might be new to her. The judgment is a paraphrase of Wilhelm and Takashima Ekidan. For each card, I will have to decide which translation to use.

I would love to make these cards "in public" here on the forum to benefit from your feedback and comments.
Also, knowing that someone else might be interested in this deck, would greatly motivate me to bring the project to completion.

Anything is provisional, from the font to the image style, to the fact that I want to add a way to properly cast hexagram (is it really a good idea?) so, please, feel free to comment on anything.

I'll post the cards in this thread one by one as soon as I manage to complete them.

Thanks!

P.S. Like for all my other decks, the hi-res, ready to print images will be free for anyone wanting to print the deck themselves.

remod · Jan 4, 2023

Here is another example. I wonder if I should try to move away from the typical oriental style and try something different. I can't find any style that seems to fit better with the I Ching ...

remod · Jan 5, 2023

BTW. I failed to mention that I'm doing this using Midjourney AI for the images, but I think you had already guessed it

remod · Jan 5, 2023

I thought that, maybe, I should get rid of the lines that would allow casting hexagrams. I know, personally, would never used them. And if I won't use for myself, why should others use them?

So, I rearranged the elements and got a new layout. What do you think about it?

remod · Jan 5, 2023

Yes, I believe this way (with no lines on the sides) is better. The focus will be more on the images and the text below.

Another example.

remod · Jan 6, 2023

Following the discussion on the DIY Yi thread, I made an attempt at hex 42.

The image is hard. How can you visually represent someone that follows good example and corrects their mistake?
So I included the trigrams images (wind and thunders) and have the "young noble one" looking at them so to be inspired at improving himself ...

rosada · Jan 6, 2023

Do I understand correctly that you are doing the art work on these cards? Beautiful.

rosada · Jan 6, 2023

It would be cool if you would post these on WikiWing.

remod · Jan 6, 2023

rosada said:
Do I understand correctly that you are doing the art work on these cards? Beautiful.

Hi rosada.
Yes, I am creating the images using Midjourney, one of the rumored AI that can generate images.
The challenge is to drive it to produce meaningful images with a consistent style across all the 64 cards.
I also use GIMP (for retouching the images, eliminating unwanted elements and adding missing details), and Inkscape (to add the text and other graphical elements).
It's not like drawing the images myself but they are generated according my intentions. More or less like if I had a good friend drawing the images I want.

remod · Jan 6, 2023

rosada said:
It would be cool if you would post these on WikiWing.

I was subscribed to WikiWing for some time (quite some time ago) but I rarely used/contributed to it, so I canceled it.

If adding these cards (or any other set of cards I designed and described in other threads) could be beneficial for WikiWing, please do so. I'll be very happy to know they have been useful.

rosada · Jan 6, 2023

Sigh. Unfortunately I don’t know how to post images...

remod · Jan 6, 2023

Let's do this way: if I'll manage to complete this project I'll reactivate my subscription to WikiWings and I'll do it myself. I'll be happy to contribute.

I hope many will help me by commenting and providing their suggestion on the images, the text, the layout, and whatever aspect they believe I could improve.

rosada · Jan 6, 2023

Terrific!
I look forward to seeing your posts.
And btw, if you start posting them now, even before you have a complete deck, you will be connecting with a huge group consciousness and you may be pleasantly surprised to find your ideas coming in more clearly than ever. The Master Mind Connection!

Have you explored The Memorizing The I Ching thread? There is a card for each hexagram posted there. I think it’s fascinating to compare decks.

remod · Jan 6, 2023

One thing I always find difficult, is to decide on the back of the card.
Is this one too intricate? Maybe something simpler would fit better?

remod · Jan 7, 2023

I could probably spend more time on the back of the cards than on their face ...

remod · Jan 7, 2023

rosada said:
Have you explored The Memorizing The I Ching thread? There is a card for each hexagram posted there. I think it’s fascinating to compare decks.

Thanks for the suggestion! I surely will have a look at it to seek for suggestions on how to visually represent each hexagram!

Trojina · Jan 7, 2023

remod said:
I thought that, maybe, I should get rid of the lines that would allow casting hexagrams. I know, personally, would never used them. And if I won't use for myself, why should others use them?

You'd never use a method whereby you could generate change lines ? Is that what you mean?

As an artistic endeavour or an aid it's one thing (using cards) but those who want to consult the I Ching need to be able to create a hexagram with change lines. I would never use any method that stopped me getting a full answer from Yi, why would I ?

I'm not clear why anyone would want to consult Yi and limit themselves only to receiving a primary hexagram when they could have so much more with coins or stalks or marbles or online casting?

I'd have thought including a way to get change lines would be the only way to get people to use these cards to consult? I don't think I'd use cards to consult but some people might if they had a way to get a full answer with change lines.

I think it near impossible for any image to portray the full scope of meaning of a hexagram. For me images limit the meaning though they can be nice to look at. Yi is written like poetry, obliquely, that's the way it can hold most meaning. Images tend to fix things. And of course whether or not images will appeal to people is a wholly individual thing, that is in the end you'll get customers who like the images rather than people who want to consult Yi.

I wonder if I should try to move away from the typical oriental style and try something different. I can't find any style that seems to fit better with the I Ching ...

When I consult Yi I'm not thinking 'this is oriental'. I don't see if a person was asking with cards why they'd have to be oriental in design.

Yes, I am creating the images using Midjourney, one of the rumored AI that can generate images.
The challenge is to drive it to produce meaningful images with a consistent style across all the 64 cards.
I also use GIMP (for retouching the images, eliminating unwanted elements and adding missing details), and Inkscape (to add the text and other graphical elements).
It's not like drawing the images myself but they are generated according my intentions. More or less like if I had a good friend drawing the images I want.

So you mean you haven't drawn these images they are taken from some kind of computer graphics programme? (no idea what 'midjourney' is) In which case I feel freer to tell you I find them very reminiscent of Japanese cartoon anime characters. Maybe it would be better if you did draw your own? It would be more unique, possibly even more relatable, something you have made yourself.

There are numerous I Ching card sets out there, I imagine you've seen them so you'd have some idea of approaches people have taken. Some go very abstract, others have very intricate art. I don't own any of them but I have seen them over the years. I don't get the impression they catch on as a means to divine for reasons given above, you can't cast change lines or relating hexagram and there's no room for text so the only reason to buy them is because you like them to look at OR you don't know about casting Yi, it's new to someone and they aren't aware of how to get a full answer from Yi.

As a project, making cards for each hexagram is no doubt an inspiring and interesting thing to do. However that doesn't make it something people will use to actually divine with. I don't come across anyone who divines with cards. In SR people post casts with change lines, no one just posts a card so I'm not sure who I Ching cards are really aimed at ?

Liselle · Jan 7, 2023

If you join Change Circle :flirt:

, Hilary has given us a special Media Gallery which is specifically made for things like this! It has a section for each hexagram, just perfect.

remod · Jan 7, 2023

Thanks for your comments Trojina. Let me go over them.

I fully agree that a method for casting hexagrams should provide moving lines.
I've created many cards for that purpose and the ones I currently use are those I described in this thread. They provide a very fluid experience while casting the hexagram as you don't have to take a pencil and write down each line. My experience with those cards is that I can stay more focused using them than using any other method.

I meant precisely that I would not use a 64 cards deck to cast a hexagram since I could do the same with much fewer cards. That's why I thought that eating up so much space on the cards would not be useful.

Nevertheless, I will most probably add a method to generate hexagram lines: I am considering using either the back of the cards or taking some small space in the lower right corner of the image.

To me, a 64 card I Ching deck is useful just as a reminder of the hexagram's general meaning. The image on the card should be meaningful but should not be so strong to impose a specific view.

The problem is: which image to choose? As you correctly said, no amount of visualization could capture the many meanings behind the hexagram!

So my idea was to create an image using as a guide the "image text" related to the hexagram.

For hexagram 42 (Whilelm translation):
Wind and thunder: the image of INCREASE.
Thus the superior man:
If he sees good, he imitates it;
If he has faults, he rids himself of them.

The very minimum would be to use the imagery associated with the two trigrams (wind and thunder in the case above) if nothing better comes to my mind.

Many existing I Ching 64 card decks suffer of being either overly generic (say a Chinese landscape, some graphical abstract elements,...) or overly specific (for example they only represent one aspect of the hexagram). By using the I Ching text for the image I was hoping to create something that would keep the hexagram meaning without restricting it too much.

As for using Midjourney is not just "copying elements from a graphic program", is something that generates images starting from a textual description of them. As I said is like describing an image to a friend and asking him to draw something accordingly. There will be corrections and re-iterations until something "good enough" comes out.

I could not create an image that anyone would want to look at twice, creating 64 of them would be absolutely impossible

Anyway, to me, the intention and the outcome are what counts, not the mean. If one can create an image that is appropriate and that conveys the right message it's irrelevant if it has been created using a 3D program, a brush, a pencil or some spray can.

I'll take your comment on being too much "anime style". I'll try something else and will post it here for comments.

Thanks again!

remod · Jan 7, 2023

Liselle said:
If you join Change Circle , Hilary has given us a special Media Gallery which is specifically made for things like this! It has a section for each hexagram, just perfect.

Thanks Liselle,
I didn't know that as I joined the "WikiWing", not the "Change Circle".

Are those images created specifically for the hexagrams? It will be interesting to compare those images to the ones I'll create to see if I missed anything that someone else, instead, captured.

Liselle · Jan 7, 2023

remod said:
Are those images created specifically for the hexagrams?

They could be, or not. It can be any image, original or found somewhere, photographs, artwork, screenshots.... You can even post videos - it's a media gallery, not only for pictures. Any media that you think illustrates a hexagram, line, or a particular aspect of one.

The individual item pages have space for the poster to add a comment, and people can reply back and discuss it. Pretty spiffy.

Interesting what AI can do. You're getting in on the early stages of it (or so it seems to me, but I'm clueless so maybe it's not as new as I think!)

remod · Jan 7, 2023

Talking about adding the ability to use 64 cards to cast a hexagram with moving lines there are some easy methods that would be easy to incorporate.

Leave the cards as they are and add 2 (or 3, or 4, or 7) cards designed in the same style just for the purpose of (properly) casting a hexagram
Extract a card to get two lines at once with three coins probabilities (re-insert the card after each draw)
Extract a card to get one line with yarrow stalks probabilities (re-insert the card after each draw)
Extract and combine two cards to get one line (re-insert the cards after each draw)
Extract, shuffle and rotate six cards to get a full hexagram with moving lines (roughly with 3 coins probabilities)

(3 and 4 can be set with yarrow stalks or three coins probability).

I could think of other methods involving extracting and combining more cards but they would be rather complicated and I think that whatever method I add, it should be as simple as possible, otherwise it would be much easier to use any of the other sets of cards I created.

Most probably I would go with methods 1, or 2, or 3 but I really would love to hear any suggestions.

rosada · Jan 7, 2023

While looking at your image for 42. I was thinking you could have the thunder and wind background but instead of the fellow just staring at it, you could have an image of a ship’s captain defiantly standing at the helm of the craft glaring up at the stormy sky, as he heads for his goal, the distant island. The idea being that the struggle only makes him more committed - what ever doesn’t kill you (41.Decrease) makes you stronger (42.Increase).

breakmov · Jan 7, 2023

Hello Remod.

I really liked the "deck of cards" option as a method to create a reading, quickly and without attracting attention, in public spaces.

...and it was really very simple, using the whole deck:

- shuffled the cards, removed the first one... main hexagram.
-returned the card to the deck, shuffled it again...removed the second card, the secondary hexagram.

I just stopped using it because the deck ended up getting damaged with use, or losing a card.

breakmov

remod · Jan 7, 2023

Hi, breakmov.

Yes, that is a very simple method and is usable with any 64 cards deck.

Actually, I'm not very fond of it because it tends to generate much more moving lines than the traditional methods (coins or stalks) and I would be confused by that.

The methods I shortly described above will give you the traditional probabilities but are not as inconspicuous as just drawing a second card.

If you are ok with generating at most only one moving line (I know that some advocate for such methods), you can:

draw a second card and take note of the hexagram number (say n)
calculate the remainder of (n-1)/7
If it is 0 there's no moving line
otherwise, the remainder is the line that changes.

For example, if you get the hexagram 43 as the second card, there's no moving line since (43-1) = 42, and 42 is divisible by 7.
If you get the hexagram 53 as the second card, the third line is changing since (53-1) = (7*7)+3.

To avoid tedious calculations, one could use the table below to search for the hexagram number and get the moving line (0 means that no line is changing):

Each line has, roughly, a chance of less than 14% of being a moving line.

That said, personally, I believe that the most practical cards to use are the 7 tracking cards you already commented on but, of course, it is not as quick as just drawing a card from a deck.

The 64 card decks are more of a visual tool to support memory that's why finding the right image is so difficult.

remod · Jan 7, 2023

rosada said:
[the] image of a ship’s captain defiantly standing at the helm

Thanks, rosada, I think it's a nice one to use and I'll try to come up with something along those lines.

My concern is that reading the text, it seems to me that the improvement (increase) should come from discerning the good (and imitating it) from the bad (and avoiding it) more than by the struggle of overcoming obstacles. Wouldn't there be the risk of narrowing the meaning too much?

I'll try to post something tomorrow ...

Thanks!

veavea · Jan 8, 2023

remod said:
Here is another example. I wonder if I should try to move away from the typical oriental style and try something different. I can't find any style that seems to fit better with the I Ching ...
View attachment 5077

Wait what, AI can create images??!

remod · Jan 8, 2023

veavea said:
Wait what, AI can create images??!

Yes, and it's getting better and better at it.
The way it works is to start from a purely random square of pixel and recreate an image that would fit the description you gave it. Sometimes it gets it, sometimes it doesn't. And most of the time you'll have to use some other software to fix the details.
I think it's a very useful tool to create themed images (like the ones required for this project). Is it art? I don't think so but who am I to judge?

remod · Jan 8, 2023

This is an example of using the back of the cards for getting moving lines.

Back to my reply to @breakmov, I could set up the dots so that the number of red diamonds indicates which line is changing (no red diamond -> no changing line) to avoid any calculation/table.

Or I could make it so that the number of diamonds indicates the nature of the line. You extract a card to get a line.
Just an example ...

remod · Jan 8, 2023

I would really benefit from your feedback here, there are so many option I could incorporate ...

Using the back of the card I could make it so that after having extracted the first card (which is the received hexagram) you can look at the back of the next six cards and know which lines are moving.

All with three coins probability.

I am tempted to incorporate both methods at once so that one can decided which one they want to use.

What do you think about it?

A 64 cards I Ching deck

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