Memorizing the I Ching: 33. Tui / Retreat

Tohpol · Oct 20, 2007

33.4

Nine in the fourth place means:

Voluntary retreat brings good fortune to the superior man
And downfall to the inferior man.

"In retreating the superior man is intent on taking his departure willingly and
in all friendliness. He easily adjusts his mind to retreat, because in retreating
he does not have to do violence to his convictions. The only one who suffers
is the inferior man from whom he retreats, who will degenerate when
deprived of the guidance of the superior man."

Topal

maremaria · Oct 21, 2007

charly said:
María:

I don't see you retreating!

...........

Yours,

Charly

Hi Charly,

Yes, but I should retreat !!! Actually I was talking about line 1 but due to new things I have to do in work curently i'm trying to make shorter my “To-Do” list which is a very long list btw. Instead of surfing in the web, I should spend more time in my wonderful, fulfilling, and interesting job duties!!!!!!

hoping for better days

Greetings from the Abyss
Maria

charly · Oct 22, 2007

maremaria said:
... I should retreat !!!... I should spend more time in my wonderful, fulfilling, and interesting job duties!!!!!!
hoping for better days
Greetings from the Abyss

Hi, María:

Nobody's perfect, having to work is part of the human weakness. I hope the abyss of work is not an endless abyss.

Yours,

Charly

Tohpol · Oct 22, 2007

Got this hex repeatedly over the last six months for everything - and I mean everything - that meant putting any kind of active energy into the proceedings. A bit frustrating to say the least. If I retreat anymore I'll end up in some cave with in growing toe-nails. Anyway...

33.4 seems to reiterate the idea that a strategic retreat may well piss you off at that moment the reluctant decision is made, but the higher "I" will be delighted and will become stronger as a result. Pride is a bigggie here as well I imagine.

The negative or"inferior" aspects may be within ourselves or they may represent family, friends and colleagues; dissenting voices urging you to hang in there or to remain with a project etc. This may be self serving on their part however, conscious or unconscious. So, it often requires that one eats a good dollop of humble pie, a side order of faith and know that you'll get your Chocolate Sunday if you just stop gritting your teeth and grumbling about it. The pig can fill his face later on but only if he stops squealing about it and only if he doesn't allow himself to be influenced by other pigs.

Some other examples of this line:

Karcher:

Small people can obstruct this. The sacrifice is accomplished. Goodness and love come through retiring. Think about what you care for. It will open the way. Keep greedy people who are eager to serve you at a distance now.

Sorrel:

Withdrawing from entanglements to concentrate on a specific goal is not as easy as it may seem. If you're going to do it, be prepared to do whatever it takes.

Lofting:

One finds satisfaction in a graceful withdrawal, but it can be stopped (corrupted) by 'small' people.

LiSE:

Man loves beauty and people, many things attract his heart. To withdraw is not easy, but a grand mind will see it as enrichment, a small one as frustration. With a mind which is free from things, one can make one’s own free decisions and live one’s own life.

Richmond:

He who has inner awareness sometimes withdraws from outer activity, but for he who is real only in outer activity withdrawal is defeat.

______

Topal

Trojina · Oct 22, 2007

topal said:
33.4 seems to reiterate the idea that a strategic retreat may well piss you off at that moment the reluctant decision is made, but the higher "I" will be delighted and will become stronger as a result. Pride is a bigggie here as well I imagine.

______

Topal

I never saw it this way. I see it as retreat is good for you and not so good for those from whom you retreat - you won't be pissed off, they will, but that is their problem. I've had this on withdrawing my custom from a place because their service is no longer satisfactory. I find something better, they lose a customer. I don't see any reluctance here or issues of pride ? I guess for me this line has always been pretty literal -

Tohpol · Oct 23, 2007

trojan said:
I never saw it this way. I see it as retreat is good for you and not so good for those from whom you retreat - you won't be pissed off, they will, but that is their problem. I've had this on withdrawing my custom from a place because their service is no longer satisfactory. I find something better, they lose a customer. I don't see any reluctance here or issues of pride ? I guess for me this line has always been pretty literal -

Yes, I see what you mean. In my own particular situation/event when I got this line there was a certain amount of resistance due, essentially, to pride but IC was showing me that this would be of benefit to me in the long run.

I also got that line in response to a query about a website I was running and i couldn't justify the expense anymore. That was tough as I'd put in a lot of work in but perhaps for the wrong reasons. Again, the pride issue in that I didn't want to "give up" - I didn't want to see that there is strength in knowing when to stop :deadhorse:

So, pride can be an underlying factor from many but isn't necessarily the driving force behind it, no. More like a symptom.

Topal

Trojina · Oct 23, 2007

topal said:
I also got that line in response to a query about a website I was running and i couldn't justify the expense anymore. That was tough as I'd put in a lot of work in but perhaps for the wrong reasons. Again, the pride issue in that I didn't want to "give up" - I didn't want to see that there is strength in knowing when to stop So, pride can be an underlying factor from many but isn't necessarily the driving force behind it, no. More like a symptom.

Topal

Hmm now I'd see that as saying what you had on that website was of value and it was a pity for others you were going to withdraw - but ultimately its their loss because you are now redirecting that energy somewhere more useful for you and they lost out - if there was a 'they' exactly. See my interpretation is altogether more palatable for the ego :rofl:

I actually see the answer as a salve to your pride, these people didn't know a good thing when they saw it

charly · Oct 23, 2007

topal said:
... The negative or "inferior" aspects may be within ourselves or they may represent family, friends and colleagues... The pig can fill his face later on but only if he stops squealing about it and only if he doesn't allow himself to be influenced by other pigs....
LiSE: ...Man loves beauty and people, many things attract his heart. To withdraw is not easy, but a grand mind will see it as enrichment, a small one as frustration. With a mind which is free from things, one can make one’s own free decisions and live one’s own life.

...

Topal:

I love LiSe book, see you that she doesn't speak of «superior» nor «inferior» (both from Baynes repertory), she speaks of «grand» and «small».

About pigs and people, both are always you (or me, the person who cast the coins), when you are «grand» you can retreat with chance, when you are «small» you cann't, it's yet too late.

好 | hao3 | good | a woman + a kid = good = love
遯 | dun4 | to escape | the way of piglet
君 | jun1 | noble
子 | zi3 | child
吉 | ji2 | lucky
小 | xiao3 | small
人 | ren2 | person / people
否 | pi3 | to negate / not

«Lovely retreat Noble-Child lucky, Small-People not»

If you take the way of modernists you have to work with the «Piglet». Piglets have a tender meat but are not tall pigs.

Piglets are rich, de luxe, food for rich people, people who live like kings. It is pretty expensive.

Too expensive for plain people, They prefer to nourish one pig all the year long with trash-food and to kill him when he is tall enough. Piglets are not for small people.

For the pig remains a whole year of good life and then a great feast. Maybe he would prefer to continue moving his tail in the mud, like the old turtle.

I prefer the retreat way, but without hyerarchical allusions.

Yours,

Charly

Tohpol · Oct 23, 2007

trojan said:
I actually see the answer as a salve to your pride, these people didn't know a good thing when they saw it

Yes, it could be seen in this way, though in this instance it was only one other person and all very amicable actually. Most of the stress was me chomping at the bit so to speak. I guess I'm just not the retreating type which got me into all sorts of trouble...Something I have to cultivate: knowing when the time is right to advance and all that.

So, this is why I'm making more of an appearance in this particular thread. Hey, maybe that's a contradiction! :duh:

Topal

Tohpol · Oct 23, 2007

charly said:
Piglets are rich, de luxe, food for rich people, people who live like kings. It is pretty expensive.
Too expensive for plain people, They prefer to nourish one pig all the year long with trash-food and to kill him when he is tall enough. Piglets are not for small people.
For the pig remains a whole year of good life and then a great feast. Maybe he would prefer to continue moving his tail in the mud, like the old turtle.
I prefer the retreat way, but without hyerarchical allusions.

Good stuff Charly.

It reminds me of the Tao of Pooh. but I always saw it as The Way of the Piglet. Much more apt. Or Tales of the Grand Piglet.

Topal

charly · Oct 24, 2007

topal said:
Good stuff Charly.
It reminds me of the Tao of Pooh. but I always saw it as The Way of the Piglet. Much more apt. Or Tales of the Grand Piglet.
Topal

Thanks, Topal:

I wonder what's a Grand Piglet! Big boars can retreat, little piglets cann't. Piglets are like babies. May be the way of the piglet is «let women take care of you»?

Yours,

Charly

Tohpol · Oct 25, 2007

charly said:
May be the way of the piglet is «let women take care of you»?

Sounds like a wonderful idea to me.

Ok, I guess I'll post line 5: ( I hope Rosada's ok)

33.5

° Nine in the fifth place means:
Friendly retreat. Perseverance brings good fortune.

"It is the business of the superior man to recognize in time that the moment
for retreat has come. If the right moment is chosen, the retreat can be carried
out within the forms of perfect friendliness, without the necessity of
disagreeable discussions. Yet, for all the observance of amenities, absolute
firmness of decision is necessary if one is not to be led astray by irrelevant
considerations."

Topal

Sparhawk · Oct 29, 2007

Moving along...

33.6

上九‧肥遯‧無不利‧

Nine at the top means:

Cheerful retreat. Everything serves to further.

The situation is unequivocal. Inner detachment has become an established fact, and we are at liberty to depart. When one sees the way ahead thus clearly, free of all doubt, a cheerful mood sets in, and one chooses what is right without further thought. Such a clear path ahead always leads to the good.

maremaria · Oct 30, 2007

Hi ,
any news from Rosada ?

maremaria · Oct 30, 2007

charly said:
Hi, María:

Nobody's perfect, having to work is part of the human weakness. I hope the abyss of work is not an endless abyss.

Yours,

Charly

Hi Charly,

Right now I believe that only when comes the time of retirement I can exit that abyss!!!!
in 15 years at least.

Maria

dobro p · Nov 2, 2007

33.6 is pretty much the most auspicious form of withdrawing that appears in the whole hex, so it's high point.

And Rosada seems to have embodied Hex 33 for some time now, yes?

getojack · Nov 6, 2007

Anyone care to do Hex 34 or are these threads now DOA?

dobro p · Nov 6, 2007

I thought we were all sort of waiting for Rosada to return. Maybe if we resurrect 24, she'll return. I mean, she pulled out when we were talking about 33, so maybe if we talk about 24, she'll come back.

maremaria · Nov 7, 2007

GETOJACK : Anyone care to do Hex 34 or are these threads now DOA?

DOBRO : I thought we were all sort of waiting for Rosada to return. Maybe if we resurrect 24, she'll return. I mean, she pulled out when we were talking about 33, so maybe if we talk about 24, she'll come back.

Being a beginner in Yi I found those threads sometimes useful so I wouldn’t like this project to stop.

I wonder if Rosada is OK and she just wanted to take a brake or something else is happening. Does anybody communicate with her ?

Probably Dobro’s idea is good . Or we can try to communicate with her and if we don’t receive any answer, we do that. Or we can ask Yi what to do .

Just a thought .....

Maria

dobro p · Nov 8, 2007

Anybody got her contact information? Hilary?

hilary · Nov 8, 2007

I wrote to Rosada about a week ago to ask how she was. She replied to say that her health is better (or at least she's allowed to look at computer screens again), but then her computer had packed up, and then she had to go look after her mother. So she'll be back when she can. I'm sure she wouldn't be in the least bit offended if someone else were to start us on hexagram 34.

EmMacha · Dec 7, 2018

I know this is an old thread on "memorizing the I-Ching", however, I just watched 'Shrek Retold' with my 12 year old, and all I can think of in relation to 33.2 is Shrek trying to get away from Donkey!
:rofl:

Poor Shrek, no matter what he did, Donkey was NOT GOING AWAY!

Trojina · Dec 7, 2018

Hee hee or should I say haw haw

Freedda · Dec 7, 2018

EmMacha said:
... Donkey was NOT GOING AWAY!

"We can stay up late, swapping manly stories, and in the morning ... I'm making waffles!"

rosada · Dec 9, 2018

I love this quote! I would love to see it on a man's bar-b-que apron!

"We can stay up late, swapping manly stories, and in the morning .. I'm making waffles!" - The Donkey [what was this character's name? I haven't seen the movie.]

As I haven't seen the movie so I don't connect it with 33. Retreat. More than 33., it reminds me of hexagram 22. Grace with the image of people sitting around a campfire at the base of a mountain staying up late telling stories of imaginary adventures. Now I'm wondering how 33. Retreat leads to 22.Grace. Hmmm..that would be 22.1.4.5 - 33. Reads to me like, when you see your own dreams, thoughts, projections are starting to come true,2.1,4,5 it's time to 33. slow down, don't run with the herd anymore, let them all run passed you. Don't follow someone else's dream, follow your own path.

Trojina · Dec 9, 2018

I love this quote! I would love to see it on a man's bar-b-que apron!

"We can stay up late, swapping manly stories, and in the morning .. I'm making waffles!" - The Donkey [what was this character's name? I haven't seen the movie.]

As I haven't seen the movie so I don't connect it with 33. Retreat. More than 33., it reminds me of hexagram 22. Grace with the image of people sitting around a campfire at the base of a mountain staying up late telling stories of imaginary adventures.

What Emmacha wrote does connect with 33.2 I will post the clip so you see how the donkey sticks with Shrek, the quote about waffles (which I don't really get) is at 4.16.

BTW this image of people sitting round a campfire telling stories isn't in Yi but might be someone's own image of it. That is 22 is not primarily about people gathering together to tell stories so the Shrek example is not connected to 22 - Emmacha wrote of 33.2 connected to the clip so if you head off into 22 you've missed the point

[video=youtube_share;av_EcmpSjP0]https://youtu.be/av_EcmpSjP0?t=6[/video]

Now I'm wondering how 33. Retreat leads to 22.Grace. Hmmm..that would be 22.1.4.5 - 33. Reads to me like, when you see your own dreams, thoughts, projections are starting to come true,2.1,4,5 it's time to 33. slow down, don't run with the herd anymore, let them all run passed you. Don't follow someone else's dream, follow your own path.

The post was about 33.2 - watch the clip and you will get it.

my_key · Apr 22, 2020

For those with a penchant in exploring the imagery of pigs in Hex 33 from the Time of Coronavirus.

Hexagram 33 - The Land of the Pig?

I'm pondering another Karcherism. He names Hex 33 Retiring with the follow on name of Young Pig (Total I Ching). I have traced the character 遯 (dun4) to links with pigs / boar and sacrificial ceremony. Huang mentions the pig and sacrifice in his description of the ideograph and LiSe's...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

Memorizing the I Ching: 33. Tui / Retreat

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