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...i don't understand what you mean about the "far perspective " ... «Retreat» can not lead to a «victory» ? To save ourselves ,even if we have withdraw from our initial goal ,for exampe, isn't that a victory ? ...
They are the same in some American Indian sacred lore - Mountains, exposed cliff faces, bare rock are doors or windows to the spirit world..
... Recently, while reading up on 'The World of the Senses Arrangement' in Steve Moore's scholarly and informative The Trigrams of Han, I came across the following intriguing passage about GEN: "Ken lies in the North-East. In later Taoist religion, the North-East is thought to be the direction from which the demonic forces enter the world, and this area must be ritually sealed off before performing certain services in the temple. " Steve Moore. The Trigrams of Han - Inner Structures of the I Ching (Wellingborough: The Aquarian Press, 1989) p.67.
Does anyone else remembers Tony Saroop? He used to post in Hex-8. He disappeared from Yi forums many years ago...
I used to think Retreat was the opposite of Duration, as in someone backing out of a commitment. Now I'm thinking it's what happens after you've made your choice and now want to step out of the Public Arena. Like Influence and Duration are about finding a partner and making a commitment, then when one has one's partner the next instinct is to pull away from the larger social network and to focus on just the two of us. Thus, if you want the Influence to Endure it is necessary to Retreat.
... the ‘war” is about a city called “Change” ...
... Trojan people ... prohibit us to enter in the city...
... our troops ... attack but after 10 years they realize that this plan is not efficient...
... Plan B : Trojan horse ...
... The city was taken the war was won. Maybe we can call it a “victory”
... Each war ... includes Death. Something has to die to make space for the new... a kind of victory.
W/B: Voluntary retreat brings good fortune to the superior man and downfall to the inferior man.
W/B says: The inferior man works through power.The superior man does not act thus.
Which do you think can be the reason Baynes translated «superior» instead of «noble» and «inferior» instead of «small»?
I really don't know.
What do you think? I'm curious.
For some reason, I don't like superior/inferior . Seems like refering to "quantinty" (in my mind) and sounds very static to me.According to dictionaries ,I'm wrong but this is how it sounds to my ears .
I prefer noble/small .Think its more about "quality " gained through a proccess (maybe?). It sounds more dynamic to me. There is a pontetial for growth, development, maturity etc. (especially for the small one)
Confucian beliefs were revolutionary when they were first propounded because jun zi originally meant a member of the social elite--someone who had been born into the aristocracy. But according to Confucius, any man whose conduct and character warranted it might become jun zi regardless of his ancestry. He emphasized the obligations rather than the rights of individuals.
Interesting that 33.1 changes to 13, Fellowship. Is this saying now is the time to know which group you belong with?
I used to think Retreat was the opposite of Duration, as in someone backing out of a commitment. Now I'm thinking it's what happens after you've made your choice and now want to step out of the Public Arena.
I've been using a really clumsy rendition - 'chief son' - just to make it sound new and unusual, in order to escape preconceptions and unfortunate associations with the word 'noble', but you know, I'm thinking that maybe 'noble' does the job best of all 'jun zi'.
'Noble' works for me, in the sense of it being related to inner nobility. 'Chief's son' is hilarious! Still sounds aristocratic, though...
No, no - not 'chief's son'. Chief son. Chief means 'main, principal, most important'.
At the tail in retreat. This is dangerous.
One must not wish to undertake anything.
Now, do you see it as a qualitative attribute (i.e. being 'chief son' by reason of merit, regardless of sequential birth) or sequential one (i.e. 'first born' and from there a Zhen kind of quality)? That would make a real difference and I'm assuming that you have the former in mind, rather than the latter.
About 33 meaning leaving the public arena. I was looking for understanding about the sequence, why 32.Duration leads to 33.Retreat. At first I thought Retreat was the opposite of Duration, as in someone vowing to be married forever and then deciding to back off from that pledge, to Retreat from the marrage, from Duration. After looking at it more closely I'm seeing Retreat as meaning the opposite, that Retreat is what happens when one keeps one's pledge to Endure. If you pledge Duration in one area of your life you will find in order to keep that commitment you will Retreat from other areas. And as it is your personal pledge that is determining what you cling to and what you let go of, Retreat will be about detaching from a more general, public position to a more refined personal choice. I'm thinking Sleep is an example of Retreat.
Does it means that one has lost the opportunity to retreat on time ? Losts the benefits of a retreat ? Already too exposed to the danger ? Then what ? What does "not wish to undertake anything" means ? ...
I don't know if it'a appropriate, but when I read 33.1 I am reminded of the Bible story of Peter and the cock crowing. When Jesus was about to be arrested, his disciple, Peter, swore to Him that he would standby Him. Jesus replied that Peter would actually deny him three times before the cock crowed. Indeed, this is exactly what happened. Jesus was arrested and it was a very dangerous time to be associated with Him. Peter did not "wish to undertake anything," that is, he did not wish to admit he was a disciple, and so he denied Him three times and then the cock crowed.
PO Box 6945,
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).