1.6 dragon

[anemos]

have been thinking about 1.6 and the arrogant dragon. Sometimes feels a bit misleading as its an strong word and, maybe, prevents us to see other nuances. Its not clear to me what word fits better, but opinionated seems as a good candidate. Of course its about context, yet I try to find a more, " helpful" word(s).

being opinionated, sometimes has nothing to do with other people, but with us and how some convictions do not serve us well. Could be from simple things, such us, that course of action won't work ...or more serious one.

1.6 > 43.... voicing our opinion, pov etc ( among other things) and fan yao 43.6 point to the perils of a stand " I know better" and not consider other's opinions or be aware of things we are not receptive.

The question is, how you "translate" the arrogance of 1.6 and , those can read Chinese, what alternative interpretations are there. Posting the character would be welcome .

 

[pocossin]

In the casting 1.5.6 > 34

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...advice-Hexagram-1-changing-line-5-6-forming-3

I interpreted 1.6 as inflexibility in plans. Legge has the dragon exceeding the proper limits.

 

[anemos]

Yes, inflexible makes lots of sense. Thank you

 

[cjgait]

When it is time for someone to step aside, to become the advisor, not the mover and shaker, but they continue to push, that is 1:6. Life is generational. If older people beyond the time to retire to a secondary role they are off balance. Their mindset and energy levels are perfect as advisers and sources of wisdom based on experience. But if they jealously hold on to their place, not allowing younger people to move up into positions of authority, their management becomes onerous, their wisdom turns to folly.

This is one example of how I would interpret 1:6.

 

[hmesker]

At 1-6 it says “亢龍有悔”. Kang 亢 is often translated as ‘pride, arrogance’, but this is just one of the many meanings. If we look at some other meanings of this character we can adjust our translation a bit:
– 高 – high
– 舉- rise, go up
– 極，太過 – too (much)
– 強硬; 剛強 – strong, inflexible
– 遮蔽; 庇護- out of sight, hide
If we combine this with our dragon from 1-6 we get the picture of a dragon who without stopping goes up and up, and disappears out of sight (it is nice how sometimes all these meanings can be combined) . This is not an arrogant dragon,but a reckless dragon: a Chinese Icarus who overestimates his own powers and thereby will have hui 悔. Hui 悔 can mean
– 悔恨; 后悔 – regret, repentance
– 悔過; 改過 – correct your mistakes out of repentance
– 災咎; 災禍 – unavoidable misfortune
– 《易》卦有六爻，其上體即上三爻稱 “悔”，又稱外卦 – upper/outside trigram of a hexagram
If we stick to the image of Icarus, then I think the third meaning fits best. If you do not know your limits, or do not accept them, you will have unavoidable misfortune. Not from arrogance, but from recklessness. It are often the kind people, and not the arrogant people, who have to learn their lessons like this.
(http://www.yjcn.nl/wp/the-chinese-icarus/)

 

[anemos]

When it is time for someone to step aside, to become the advisor, not the mover and shaker, but they continue to push, that is 1:6. Life is generational. If older people beyond the time to retire to a secondary role they are off balance. Their mindset and energy levels are perfect as advisers and sources of wisdom based on experience. But if they jealously hold on to their place, not allowing younger people to move up into positions of authority, their management becomes onerous, their wisdom turns to folly.

This is one example of how I would interpret 1:6.

Had this line many times in the past and also 14.3 for something very similar to that you describe. Wisdom that is not shared, strong convictions. The idea of Opinioned was from those older reading . Thank you for sharing your experience. Such behavior derives from a 1.6 disposition.

 

[anemos]

At 1-6 it says “亢龍有悔”. Kang 亢 is often translated as ‘pride, arrogance’, but this is just one of the many meanings. If we look at some other meanings of this character we can adjust our translation a bit:
– 高 – high
– 舉- rise, go up
– 極，太過 – too (much)
– 強硬; 剛強 – strong, inflexible
– 遮蔽; 庇護- out of sight, hide
If we combine this with our dragon from 1-6 we get the picture of a dragon who without stopping goes up and up, and disappears out of sight (it is nice how sometimes all these meanings can be combined) . This is not an arrogant dragon,but a reckless dragon: a Chinese Icarus who overestimates his own powers and thereby will have hui 悔. Hui 悔 can mean
– 悔恨; 后悔 – regret, repentance
– 悔過; 改過 – correct your mistakes out of repentance
– 災咎; 災禍 – unavoidable misfortune
– 《易》卦有六爻，其上體即上三爻稱 “悔”，又稱外卦 – upper/outside trigram of a hexagram
If we stick to the image of Icarus, then I think the third meaning fits best. If you do not know your limits, or do not accept them, you will have unavoidable misfortune. Not from arrogance, but from recklessness. It are often the kind people, and not the arrogant people, who have to learn their lessons like this.
(http://www.yjcn.nl/wp/the-chinese-icarus/)

The story of Icarus, was one of the myths of my country that matched so well with 1.6 and the middle path.and helped me see yi more broadly, the metaphor that transcents locality. Btw, there is a book title the icarus deception, that gives a different twist ; haven't read it , so I have no opinion, yet some reviews appear to suggest that was an icarus flight. Having said that, the author asks an interesting question: " how high will you fly?".

Recklessness makes sense too, as the potential and power one owns in hex 1, overrides them. In some ways, explains hex 43 and the Image, text. I need to think more about it , but I like the recklessness, because it bodes well with a situation and a specific person who runs it. She appears inflexible but I cant say she is arrogant, hence my initial question.

Thank you.

 

[xuesongyu]

Firstly, I translate Chinese loong as "loong" instead of "dragon", because they are totally different animals.

Secondly, I Ching is a great philosophy book, each hexagram stands for a situation of things. Hexagram 1 stands for creativity and leadership. 1.6 is the top line so it stands for a loong flying too high in the sky, which means that a headstrong leader who does not listen to other people's advice and opinions and always make decisions by himself. So "there will be regret."

The corresponding hexagram of 1.6 is hexagram 43, which is a hexagram about making decisions.

I my book "I Ching Codes Predicting the Future", you can see my translations of all the hexagrams.
http://www.amazon.com/kindle/dp/B00KRPT8G0

have been thinking about 1.6 and the arrogant dragon. Sometimes feels a bit misleading as its an strong word and, maybe, prevents us to see other nuances. Its not clear to me what word fits better, but opinionated seems as a good candidate. Of course its about context, yet I try to find a more, " helpful" word(s).

being opinionated, sometimes has nothing to do with other people, but with us and how some convictions do not serve us well. Could be from simple things, such us, that course of action won't work ...or more serious one.

1.6 > 43.... voicing our opinion, pov etc ( among other things) and fan yao 43.6 point to the perils of a stand " I know better" and not consider other's opinions or be aware of things we are not receptive.

The question is, how you "translate" the arrogance of 1.6 and , those can read Chinese, what alternative interpretations are there. Posting the character would be welcome .

 

[charly]

...
The question is, how you "translate" the arrogance of 1.6 and , those can read Chinese, what alternative interpretations are there. Posting the character would be welcome .

Hi, Maria:

Not an alternative but an additional interpretation: H.1 is about MALE ENERGY that at the end decays. If we pretend to endure too much we will regret it.

亢龍有悔
kang4 long2 you3 hui3
PROUD DRAGON HAVE REGRET
Don't be excessively proud and will not regret it.
Pretension is infinite, power is finite.
For his wife no man is a hero. (1)
​

Not that H .1 be little sexist or that have any incompatibility with male supremacy ideology, but that it promotes the DRY WAY, the way of restraining and continence by opposition to the way of indulgence.

乾qian2, the name of H.1 meant DRY / SUN-DRIED (2) by opposition to fresh / natural / wet, attributes of H.2,川 chuan1: the FLOW / STREAM in the MAWANGDUI manuscript. (3)

Of course that, in relation with wet and dry, there is an old teaching holding that "women defeat men like water defeats fire", but that´s another story.

All the best,


Charly
___________________________________
(1)Whit the man radical at the left we have 伉 kang4: match / pair / spouse, "married dragon will regret" or "consort dragon will regret"

(2) Related characters:
乾 gan1, qian2: dry // first hexagram / warming principle of the sun / penetrating / heavenly generative principle (male) ​
干 gan1: shield /stem / trunk of tree / to invade / dried
杆 gan1: pole / shaft of spear
幹 gan4: tree trunk / main part of sth / to manage / to work / to do / capable / to f_ck(vulgar)
(Source: MDBG)

(3) About the Lévi-Straussian WET and DRY

The Key and the Flow

The Xici zhuan or "Appended Statements Commentary" (also known as the Great Commentary) portrays the Yijingas a microcosm of the phenomenal world. It further portrays the Yijing's first two hexagrams-Qian and Kun-when taken together, as a microcosm of the Yijing itself, with Qian representing the hard, male, heavenly principle and Kun representing the soft, female, earthly principle. Familiar as these representations have become within Chinese culture, there is nothing in these names of the hexagrams that would suggest such great importance. However, the recent publication of the Mawangdui manuscript version of the Xici zhuan, which dating to about 175 B.C. is far and away the earliest direct evidence of the text, indicates that the original names of the hexagrams may have been Jian, "The Key," and Chuan, "The Flow," and that the names refer, perhaps primarily, to the male and female genitalia...

In this paper, I will discuss these descriptions and how their corporal origins, which, after all, come in the course of praising the procreative functions of the Way, have been obscured by the metaphysics of the received text.

Edward L. Shaughnessy, University of Chicago

Source: https://www.asian-studies.org/absts/1996abst/china/c7.htm

Ch.

 

[anemos]

Firstly, I translate Chinese loong as "loong" instead of "dragon", because they are totally different animals.

is it possible to explain it a bit ?
thank you

 

[anemos]

Hi, Maria:

Not an alternative but an additional interpretation: H.1 is about MALE ENERGY that at the end decays. If we pretend to endure too much we will regret it.

Thanks Charly,

a question: do you think that its the energy that decays or its an excessive drive to 'procreate' but channeled in not that appropriate way and appears as decay. IOW the drive overdrives ?

 

[peterg]

For more information on the characters and example usage click on individual characters.
www.yellowbridge.com/onlinelit/yijing01.php (Legge)
www.ctext.org/book-of-changes/qian (jump to dictionary, green tab) (Legge)
http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Yijing&no=1 (Wilhelm)

Kang Long 亢龍
Kang is overbearing, excessive, high, proud.
The opposite extreme of servile, obsequious or too deferential. The centre has been lost and there must have been some overstepping.
Kang Long is also the Neck of the Dragon, the second of seven lunar lodge constellations in the Azure Dragon macro constellation. Its in Virgo. It begins to appear at dusk above the eastern horizon around the Spring Equinox and and begins to disappear below the western horizon at dusk around the Autumn Equinox.
Its interesting to see Kang Long discussed at this particular time of the year.
Icarus was warned not to fly too low close to the sea or too high close to the sun.
And the Azure Dragons Neck gets visibly closer to the sun in autumn.

H1 can be correlated with solar terms in May and June.

Dragons Neck at dusk in March June September :
https://scontent-a-mxp.xx.fbcdn.net...=b80f8823bfaec1558d8d42498f08f50a&oe=5484F5E4
https://scontent-a-mxp.xx.fbcdn.net...=71b683614823231be48e03e2ca959dc2&oe=548621B2
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd...._=1422129358_88e87954d294a8fe580dd40e2793d881
Astronomical view of Western Constellations same times :
https://scontent-a-mxp.xx.fbcdn.net...=ff6d3286d3ca3c149fee5ed45f2a1bc8&oe=548250C6
https://scontent-b-mxp.xx.fbcdn.net...=7eb70a38dd27ab058bcfcea78a6026fd&oe=54B6FDFA
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd...._=1418195733_4938736c675b24a8619655ba9b340f92

 

[anemos]

Far fetched, I reckon, but from what you say, Peter, hibernation comes in mind , a step before 1.1; then a circular movement of the lines and ouroboros. ...

Maybe that dragon overestimates his tirelessness...

 

[peterg]

Its not tooo far fetched to see astronomical observations reflected in the text. King Wen had his Ling Tai 靈臺 Marvellous Tower and the night sky was the television of the day.

 

[xuesongyu]

Loong is a mystical animal in Chinese folk legend, it could swim in the water and fly in the sky. In hexagram 1, loong stands for acting according to changing circumstances. When it should stay underground, it will stay underground; when it should appear on the ground, it will appear on the ground; when it should fly in the sky, it will fly in the sky...I Ching tells you that you should change with each shift in the situation. That's why there is a special code at the end of this hexagram:"There are a host of loongs, no one of them always be a leader."

is it possible to explain it a bit ?
thank you

 

[anemos]

Its not tooo far fetched to see astronomical observations reflected in the text. King Wen had his Ling Tai 靈臺 Marvellous Tower and the night sky was the television of the day.

As above, so..... everywhere
Hope you didn't read my previous post as call farfetched your ideas.. was talking about mine.

Loong is a mystical animal in Chinese folk legend, it could swim in the water and fly in the sky. In hexagram 1, loong stands for acting according to changing circumstances. When it should stay underground, it will stay underground; when it should appear on the ground, it will appear on the ground; when it should fly in the sky, it will fly in the sky...I Ching tells you that you should change with each shift in the situation. That's why there is a special code at the end of this hexagram:"There are a host of loongs, no one of them always be a leader."

Thank you. That distinction triggered some thoughts.

 

[charly]

Thanks Charly,

a question: do you think that its the energy that decays or its an excessive drive to 'procreate' but channeled in not that appropriate way and appears as decay. IOW the drive overdrives ?

Hi, Maria:

Years passed. I´m sorry for not seeing the post in due time. I hope you will read this anwer if you look at the forum form time to time. I believe you have reason. Sometimes dragons overdragon.

A curiosity:

Picture of the RISING DRAGON:

Part of a print in the Bencao Gangmu (1596)
​

This Dragon almost looks like a FOOTED SNAKE.

The book Er Ya Yi: The dragon is the leading figure among the scales. . . . The head is like that of a camel, the horns like that of a deer. The eyes look like those of a rabbit. The ears look like those of an ox. The neck looks like that of a snake. The scales look like those of a golden carp. Its claws look like those of an eagle. Is paws look like those of a tiger. There are 81 scales on its back. This is a Yang number of nine by nine. . . . Under its lower jaw there is a pearl.

Source: http://www.china.org.cn/english/2006/Sep/180652.htm

Best wishes for you and your studies.

Charly